Feds threaten to arrest lavabit founder for shutting down service

[PopeOxycontinI]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by uppityperson (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: NBC news via techdirt

from the either-you-help-us-spy-on-people-or-you're-a-criminal dept
The saga of Lavabit founder Ladar Levison is getting even more ridiculous, as he explains that the government has threatened him with criminal charges for his decision to shut down the business, rather than agree to some mysterious court order. The feds are apparently arguing that the act of shutting down the business, itself, was a violation of the order:

... a source familiar with the matter told NBC News that James Trump, a senior litigation counsel in the U.S. attorney’s office in Alexandria, Va., sent an email to Levison's lawyer last Thursday – the day Lavabit was shuttered -- stating that Levison may have "violated the court order," a statement that was interpreted as a possible threat to charge Levison with contempt of court.

Read more: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130816/14533924213/feds-threaten-to-arrest-lavabit-founder-shutting-down-his-service.shtml

[Scootaloo]

1. Can we call it fascism yet?

[newfie11]

19. Without a doubt, YES!!!!!!!!!

[Civilization2]

21. The corporate-military state is indeed fascism.

The corporations tied to the military and defended and supported through the state. The will of the people is not even a consideration any longer, only the war-bucks, only the 1% who profit from the warmongering.

How did we let the sociopaths take over so completely?

[Scootaloo]

23. However it happened, it happened

Question is, how do we fix the problem?

[countmyvote4real]

2. Hello? Can you smell the coffee yet? n/t

[villager]

3. The "hope and change" Feds? Of course they do.

n/t

[NealK]

4. They're acting like the Mob.

That's getting crazier and scarier each day.

[DeSwiss]

5. ....

''...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.''

The American Declaration of Independence

[24601]

17. Consent of the governed because it's who we voted it in. Who can say honestly that they didn't

believe, after his first four years in office, that President Obama didn't stand for government taking a larger role in our lives? Who can point to credible evidence that there was a nation security exception in his view? Using the powers of the office, and pushing to find the limits of those powers to achieve the President's philosophy isn't new.

Don't look at what any politician says, but what they do via their votes. For Senator Obama's views, just read up on his Senate votes (like the Patriot Act Reauthorization) and it's not difficult to infer his position.

Who led you to believe otherwise?

[DeSwiss]

18. Matters not whom we voted in......

...that consent is conditional. They have no consent if they: ''become destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.''

- I don't give a fuck what laws they pass. Like the Declaration says, I have inalienable rights, so they can shove that bullshit right up their asses.

[24601]

20. Then ask the right questions, the hard questions, before you vote - because it does matter.

Interesting you quote the Declaration. I'm unaware that it's provisions have any force of law as is vested in the Constitution.

[Oakenshield]

6. Always with the hysteria...

Clearly this story is just trying to damage Obama. Didn't you hear Levison had boxes in his garage? What was in those boxes? I bet he supports Ron Paul! This thread is somehow a paulbot conspiracy!

[joshcryer]

7. The Feds would never win this one in court.

He has no requirement to continue running his business after being given a warrant that requires his business to continue functioning for it to work.

ie, I have a coffee shop that the feds want to wire up because their suspects come to it every once and awhile. I close my coffee shop and put a sign out saying "I was asked to do something against my wishes by the feds therefore the shop is closing." Are the feds then going to appropriate my shop and reopen it or tie my hands and reopen it? It's preposterous.

[Enthusiast]

12. Well said. It is preposterous. nt

[joshcryer]

14. Oh, and he has a contractual obligation to say why he's shutting down.

He did not get into the details in the warrant therefore he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

He has to tell his clients why he's shutting down.

Sadly I think this is the problem with centralized / monetized privacy. We need a fully decentralized and encrypted chat / messaging system.

[bemildred]

24. Yes. Decentralization is the key.

It's like the no leaders thing, you cannot decapitate a thing with no head. And that can be done. A fully peer-to-peer net is possible, probably faster (fewer bottlenecks), and you can encrypt as much or as little as you like.

We could have a fully distributed electrical system by now, based on renewables for the most part, but there is no money and political power in that sort of thing, no empire to be owned or to be part of.

[bemildred]

25. Indeed. One suspects they have got out of the habit of going to court. nt

[jtuck004]

8. It strikes me that the answer to this is to make 10,000 people owners. Maybe a nonprofit or LLC.

They would all have visibility into what the corp is served with or ordered to do, (If all of them decided to disclose what they knew, it would make for a very jolly federal prison time. Nice too, because they would likely have to build a new facility).

What say - put up a website, crowd fund a mail server for $5 each (would have to check on the cost, create some corporate papers, figure out how changes and political ambitions and jealousies would be handled), but around there. And everyone who pays signs on as an officer of the corporation. We then set the fees at nearly nothing, just enough to keep it all running, a few admins, some kinds of HR and legal team...get some decent Linux boxes, run some web servers, find a POP to hook on. It's doable.

It's not much different from what the banks did when contracting with companies that did their robo-signing. Except, of course, that it would be legal.

As I think about it, we would probably have 100,000 people in a relatively short time...$5 to join as an owner, $10 every year on an anniversary date, and there would probably be a waiting list...

[joshcryer]

15. Ahah, that's a book idea I've had.

Basically every individual can easily be a corporation so legally that sort of thing can happen.

It's a clever approach, imo.

However, it prevents the owner from profiting off of peoples desire for privacy.

[Pholus]

9. So why would they send a letter to the lawyer except for pressure?

After all, Levison was talking about NOT being able to discuss all of this with the lawyer.

Sounds like another form of pressure, that's all. Extortion and lies. This surveillance shit is *so* good at making it clear that our values are shot.

[joshcryer]

16. Sounds like an idiotic DOJ to me.

The lawyers had to have vetted the whole thing, this "threat" is weak sauce. They can't do shit to him. And they know it. Why they would go against the likely recommendations of DOJ lawyers is just scumbag shit. They should've just said "touche" and walked.

[bemildred]

26. The federal prosecutors seem to get quite pouty at times.

They have a mean vindictive streak. They want to dominate things.

[Helen Borg]

10. Next...

They'll charge people who donated to the Lavabit legal fund. At minimum, those people will now receive special attention.

[bowens43]

11. this administration keeps getting worse.

[blkmusclmachine]

13. Burgeoning POLICE STATE

9/11 was the excuse.

[Civilization2]

22. But Snowden lied, and GG is a bad writer, and The President told me he loves me, and,. .

How much reality does it take to stop the defenders of the police state from perpetuating denialism?

Fact after fact, action after action, and the words are what they cling to.

[christx30]

27. It's a great jobs program.

It’s Obama’s job creation program. Forcing businesses to stay open at the point of a gun.

[christx30]

28. At this point,

might as well just release the entire NSL. If they are going to come for you, you have nothing to lose.
Release the whole thing cover-to-cover. If the Feds violate the constitution that gives them power, do they have legitimate power any more? Release the letter, move to a non-extradition country, and re-open your business providing encrypted email service to the world. It'd be great marketing. The "Outlaw" email service.

[uppityperson]

29. Locking as is far outside LBN's 12 hour posting requirement. Please consider reposting

in GD or Good Reads. Thank you.