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d_r

(6,907 posts)
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:36 AM Aug 2013

After same-sex couple victory in Collegedale, church ousts gay detective's family

Source: Chattanooga Times Free Press

Collegedale's decision to grant benefits to same-sex couples was a victory for Kat Cooper, a gay detective who championed the months-long effort that made the Chattanooga suburb the first city in Tennessee to offer benefits to same-sex spouses of its government employees.

Cooper's mother, Linda, stood by her side throughout the process. She held tight to her daughter's hand at a July meeting over the issue. And the two embraced after the City Council's 4-1 vote on Aug. 5.

But those small acts of support translated into collateral damage that left Linda Cooper and other relatives separated from their church family of more than 60 years. And one local advocate for gay families says the church's stance was the most extreme he's heard of in years.

Leaders at Ridgedale Church of Christ met in private with Kat Cooper's mother, aunt and uncle on Sunday after the regular worship service. They were given an ultimatum: They could repent for their sins and ask forgiveness in front of the congregation. Or leave the church.



Read more: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/aug/21/repent-or-leave/



Not much more I can say - the church kicked out Cooper's mother, aunt and uncle because Cooper is gay and came out in public to fight for equal rights.
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After same-sex couple victory in Collegedale, church ousts gay detective's family (Original Post) d_r Aug 2013 OP
"And I hereby promise ... knightmaar Aug 2013 #1
I would have told the church what they could do with themselves. hobbit709 Aug 2013 #2
They should have taken the offer to repent Tyrs WolfDaemon Aug 2013 #9
Now, now, now!!! icymist Aug 2013 #36
Ah the faith community in all it's glory Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #3
OOH Mommy it's the American Taliban warrant46 Aug 2013 #6
This is the North Korean tactic: punish three generations of a family for one transgression. Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2013 #4
Another Neo-Xtian church atreides1 Aug 2013 #5
They can attend the Church roody Aug 2013 #7
They're better off outside a church like that muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #8
I'm so sorry they had to go through this Kber Aug 2013 #10
What you say is true, and so sad. Her mom can't stop crying -- that's what being shattered is Hekate Aug 2013 #50
sad for the family, but have to wonder about eating pork, shrimp, wearing bluemarkers Aug 2013 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #12
How about this first step? theHandpuppet Aug 2013 #13
Too Easy Treant Aug 2013 #14
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #15
Hate is hate dbackjon Aug 2013 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #30
Yet gays get killed in the name of religion all the teim dbackjon Aug 2013 #41
sad, but churches will be able to use separation of church bluemarkers Aug 2013 #32
Congregational independence hoosiers1976 Aug 2013 #16
You must have overlooked the overwhelming hate dbackjon Aug 2013 #21
Not overlooking anything hoosiers1976 Aug 2013 #23
Good for you! dbackjon Aug 2013 #25
Thanks! hoosiers1976 Aug 2013 #58
What is the Romans passage? blackspade Aug 2013 #26
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #33
Which version of the NT is this from? blackspade Aug 2013 #35
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #37
Thanks for the info. blackspade Aug 2013 #43
You are asking all the right questions, blackspade Hekate Aug 2013 #52
Exactly blackspade Aug 2013 #56
You cannot win with the willfully stupid. nt Hekate Aug 2013 #57
I illustrated my point poorly, thank you bluemarkers Aug 2013 #27
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #34
Paul was not a follower of Christ dbackjon Aug 2013 #42
That's exactly what I was thinking as I read this! icymist Aug 2013 #47
Goodbye, BIGOT. May your extremely short stay here be frustrating and unpleasant. 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2013 #39
I think reclaiming grandad's portrait might be a good move, too. nt Hekate Aug 2013 #51
the should have done teh following rdking647 Aug 2013 #17
Why have sympathy for people who attend the Church of Christ? Especially in Tennessee? YOHABLO Aug 2013 #18
just picking up and moving isn't that easy ButterflyBlood Aug 2013 #28
And yes they have a facebook page Marrah_G Aug 2013 #19
Sounds right for Tennessee dbackjon Aug 2013 #20
What a sad story. NT Trillo Aug 2013 #24
In the big picture, IMO, best they are gone from this church, there are better, why RKP5637 Aug 2013 #29
The church did them a favor. Gormy Cuss Aug 2013 #31
Is there conversion therapy available for people to cure themselves geek tragedy Aug 2013 #38
Yes, and it can work. But they have to want to change. Hekate Aug 2013 #53
Horrible, nasty, anti-Christ fuckers. nt stillwaiting Aug 2013 #40
Isn't nice to see a church following Jesus' example of compassion and empathy for others. grattsl Aug 2013 #44
They did them a big favor. 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2013 #45
Christ was always in a habit of kicking out sinners, remember? I mean ALWAYS tomm2thumbs Aug 2013 #46
and especially d_r Aug 2013 #48
Shunning and shaming Mopar151 Aug 2013 #49
Best thing that could have happened. DeSwiss Aug 2013 #54
yes, but d_r Aug 2013 #60
I understand the church family/politics. DeSwiss Aug 2013 #61
yeah it is d_r Aug 2013 #62
If "religion is the opiate of the masses" ... dickthegrouch Aug 2013 #55
Wow libodem Aug 2013 #59

knightmaar

(748 posts)
1. "And I hereby promise ...
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 08:38 AM
Aug 2013

... not to let the door hit me in the ass on the way out."

Well, that's what I'd go with, but I'm not a really churchy guy.

Tyrs WolfDaemon

(2,289 posts)
9. They should have taken the offer to repent
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:23 AM
Aug 2013

Just so that they could tell everyone to F off.

If it were me, I would have shown up with a trailer full of real cow $hit.
I would be tempted to start by saying 'Thank you for this opportunity' and then tell them that there is a large pile of steaming manure outside for their lunch. Then I would tell them to F off.

icymist

(15,888 posts)
36. Now, now, now!!!
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:50 AM
Aug 2013

Get a little more creative Tyrs, like find some aphrodisiacs for cats. Make tinctures of these and anoint the doors of the church. Just imagine all the church goers having to navigate to way inside past all the humping cats! And don't get me started about the noise they would make! http://www.catchannel.com/cat-videos/watch-video-5e69ac63897c6ca7bcef713151adc35f.aspx

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,656 posts)
4. This is the North Korean tactic: punish three generations of a family for one transgression.
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:10 AM
Aug 2013

Right Wing Christianists and Dominionists and your general TeaBaggers share a lot in common with the Taliban dictatorship and the North Korean dictatorship.

atreides1

(16,194 posts)
5. Another Neo-Xtian church
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:15 AM
Aug 2013

That isn't hesitant on showing what it really stands for...intolerance, hate, and no concept of the real teachings of Christ!

Maybe the entire congregation needs to move to Africa, where gays go to prison and are treated as pariahs?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,762 posts)
8. They're better off outside a church like that
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:17 AM
Aug 2013

If they have any true friends in the church, they'd leave it too.

Kber

(5,043 posts)
10. I'm so sorry they had to go through this
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:24 AM
Aug 2013

It's very hard when your illusions are shattered is such a way. Makes you question the foundations of your being and wonder if what you spent years building and believing in was a fraud.

All for some "I really know what God thinks and you don't" power trip.

I wonder if others will leave the church in support of the family.

Hekate

(92,331 posts)
50. What you say is true, and so sad. Her mom can't stop crying -- that's what being shattered is
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:09 PM
Aug 2013

I hope that the family will find a new spiritual home soon -- I can certainly think of some liberal denominations -- but it won't be easy on them. How kind it would be if some fellow Christians from other denominations paid a visit to invite them in.

This is literally like being suddenly and brutally disowned by one's beloved family, or finding out some truly ugly family secret that others have been co-dependently keeping a secret. In this case, the ugly secret was the sheer depths of intolerance, homophobia, and lack of following Christ's teachings about love.

My heart goes out to them as they work their way through this betrayal.

bluemarkers

(536 posts)
11. sad for the family, but have to wonder about eating pork, shrimp, wearing
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:26 AM
Aug 2013

clothes with different thread blends, etc etc

The Coopers will be better off in a different place. I hope they get grand dad's picture off the wall though!

Response to bluemarkers (Reply #11)

Treant

(1,968 posts)
14. Too Easy
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:06 AM
Aug 2013

And you don't get to feel superior to the sinner you're ejecting, so it wouldn't fly.

I grew up extremely liberal UCC, so had no problems. Gays and lesbians were common and considered unremarkable. In the 1970's.

Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #13)

Response to dbackjon (Reply #22)

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
41. Yet gays get killed in the name of religion all the teim
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 12:26 PM
Aug 2013

Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims all kill Gays because "God" told them too.


The same passages you are defending also call for gays to be put to death.


So no, not hyperbole.


And how the hell do you get hypocritical?

bluemarkers

(536 posts)
32. sad, but churches will be able to use separation of church
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:17 AM
Aug 2013

and state to justify almost anything that isn't specifically illegally, ie sacrificing virgins, if they could find any that is.

I imagine more and more churches will be kicking out members over things like this... and then as it impacts tithing... you know lets follow the money... we will see churches becoming more accepting. For "churches" that are mega rich, they will just do whatever they want.

btw, I feel like justification for actions such as this are also rooted in the misguided notion "hate the sin. love the sinner". Using it as an excuse to focus on the perceived sin rather than real love.



hoosiers1976

(3 posts)
16. Congregational independence
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:18 AM
Aug 2013

I am also very familiar with the CofC and the Restoration movement.
The key and VERY accurate point of the linked article is that CofC does not have a governing body. No diocese, no classis, etc.
Each congregation makes its own choices.
Their pastors are not ordained (most attend CofC affiliated colleges and are "bible" or "preaching" majors) and they have no governance that determines what they preach or how they preach or worship (with the exception that some CofC's believe or do not believe in the use of instruments in worship).
So bottom line. This local congregation's leadership could have made a VERY different choice and no one would have been the wiser.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
21. You must have overlooked the overwhelming hate
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:38 AM
Aug 2013

That comes from the Church of Christ.

In Nashville, they competed with the Southern Baptists to see who could be the most anti-gay.


You can't be for equality and be a member of each church.

hoosiers1976

(3 posts)
23. Not overlooking anything
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:54 AM
Aug 2013

Each congregation makes its own choices. That is a fact. Do the vast majority of congregations make bad choices in regards to equality? Of course.
If you go north of Kentucky you can find much more tolerant (not liberal by any means) CofC's who make a point to not address the issue from the pulpit.
Not that that is a great compromise but it is a pretty typical approach for most Protestant churches.
All that being said I left the CofC years ago for a demonination that has a governing body that specifically supports AND accepts its LGBT members and visitors.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
26. What is the Romans passage?
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:05 AM
Aug 2013

Regardless, this is one of the big reasons why I am an atheist.
Groups of people that use religion as a tool to demean and discriminate are one of the biggest social ills in the world.

Response to blackspade (Reply #26)

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
35. Which version of the NT is this from?
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:38 AM
Aug 2013

There are several.
I'm curious what the actual direct Hebrew translation is rather than the rewritten western language versions.
It appears from the passage that Romans is referencing a specific time and incident within the ancient world.
Does it take place within the NT time period? The time of Jesus?
Also, what is the 'due penalty?'

Response to blackspade (Reply #35)

Hekate

(92,331 posts)
52. You are asking all the right questions, blackspade
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:59 PM
Aug 2013

I can't see what Name Removed was saying, but from your end of things he sounds like my ex-unlamented-son-in-law. That bozo had been to a "Christian" high school, and had so little acquaintance with contents and history of The Bible that I wondered if the preacher/teacher had simply waved a copy over his head. He was absolutely certain he knew what was in it and could not shut up about it when he was with us, because we, as non-Christians, obviously were in error.

Too bad for him that both dh and I are very interested in religion, and scholarship, and both of us had actually read not only the King James Bible but more recent translations, and that my husband had a Jewish education which he continued on his own as an adult. (We raised the kids Unitarian -- I still don't know what our daughter saw in this guy.) We could not get ex-SIL to understand that in the original languages there are several "voices" and povs, and that "the Book" is actually a library. It's only when it's translated into one modern language or another that it all sounds like the same unified pov; plus translation itself involves choices.

I have nothing against Christians or Christianity, but I do object to stupidity and ignorance. Ignorance can be cured -- stupidity, alas, cannot.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
56. Exactly
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:28 PM
Aug 2013

The removed poster sort of answered some of my questions but with a bit of dodging and weaving.
But I think s/he missed my point that the bible in it's numerous forms is open to different readings and interpretations.
I decided to cut my loses after the last post for my own sanity......

bluemarkers

(536 posts)
27. I illustrated my point poorly, thank you
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:05 AM
Aug 2013

I'm so used to the bathwater being thrown out so to speak....

but using Romans is problematic imo as well.

Paul....ugh imo, Peter (and Paul for that matter) forget about Jesus and inserts themselves and manmade law into his writings. Paul mentions a host of "sins" that will bring about the "wrath of God". (including gossip) So the CofC throws out all who gossip as well? It is just so hard to pick and choose especially when all sin is equal.

My point of course is that anyone can use the Bible to justify anything. Seems silly to kick people out - as that just reinforces a cult like feeling. However, churches can do that.

Response to bluemarkers (Reply #27)

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
42. Paul was not a follower of Christ
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 12:28 PM
Aug 2013

He was the first charlatan preacher.

He is the old time equivalent of Jerry Falwell.

His writings do NOT follow Christ, and should be ignored.

icymist

(15,888 posts)
47. That's exactly what I was thinking as I read this!
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 01:26 PM
Aug 2013

The only law I saw in the New Testament is Love One Another. As for Paul, didn't Christ warn his disciples that others would be coming in his name, but were not from him? Almost immediately, Paul goes from stoning disciples to becoming one that begins to rewrite everything that Jesus said!The evangelists, Popes, scribes, and anyone else wanting to influence the new religion's 'laws' have been doing this ever since!

 

rdking647

(5,113 posts)
17. the should have done teh following
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:20 AM
Aug 2013

1. say they will repent in front of the church
2. stand up in front of teh church and start french kissing before telling the church to go fuck themselves

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
18. Why have sympathy for people who attend the Church of Christ? Especially in Tennessee?
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:23 AM
Aug 2013

There are other churches. Move to a different part of the country and join a church that's open and welcoming to the LGBT community. I think they'd all be much happier.

ButterflyBlood

(12,644 posts)
28. just picking up and moving isn't that easy
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:06 AM
Aug 2013

Though I agree they could've easily just gone to a more tolerant church even in Tennessee. Its similar to what I say to Catholics who bemoan their church's stances and decisions: You can leave.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
20. Sounds right for Tennessee
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 10:35 AM
Aug 2013

Had a friend that my partner and I rented a room to when we lived in Nashville.

His preacher dad had freaked out when he came out in HS - tried to beat the gay, sent him to ex-gay therapy and camps, kicked him out of his church, etc.

If they will do that to their own flesh and blood, they will do it to anyone.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
29. In the big picture, IMO, best they are gone from this church, there are better, why
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:12 AM
Aug 2013

settle for a bunch of bigots.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
31. The church did them a favor.
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 11:14 AM
Aug 2013

Now they can seek a congregation that isn't so peculiar with elders who are hiding their own discomfort by claiming it's a scriptural mandate.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
38. Is there conversion therapy available for people to cure themselves
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 12:12 PM
Aug 2013

of being fundamentalist assholes?

Hekate

(92,331 posts)
53. Yes, and it can work. But they have to want to change.
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:15 PM
Aug 2013

I'm sincere about that. I believe ignorance, including spiritual ignorance, can be "cured." But stupidity -- no.

 

grattsl

(63 posts)
44. Isn't nice to see a church following Jesus' example of compassion and empathy for others.
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 12:32 PM
Aug 2013

Good thing that they haven't forgotten the Golden Rule, and continue to treat others with the respect that they would want to have shown to them. Otherwise they may do something ugly, and others might have to question if they had actually read the gospels.

2ndAmForComputers

(3,527 posts)
45. They did them a big favor.
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 12:35 PM
Aug 2013

Hope they eventually realize that and become grateful the poisonous people in their lives kindly chose to remove themselves.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
46. Christ was always in a habit of kicking out sinners, remember? I mean ALWAYS
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 01:08 PM
Aug 2013

They are only doing the Lord's work

Mopar151

(10,069 posts)
49. Shunning and shaming
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 01:43 PM
Aug 2013

Stock in trade for fundamentalists of all stripes. They'd have no qualms about stoning and burning at the stake, except for all us pesky liberals.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
54. Best thing that could have happened.
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:16 PM
Aug 2013
- Because if she was looking for a Christian church, that wasn't it. Of course very few of them are......

K&R

d_r

(6,907 posts)
60. yes, but
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:40 PM
Aug 2013

it was her mother, aunt and uncle who were kicked out of the church - they are older and had been going there their whole lives, their father having been one of the founders.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
61. I understand the church family/politics.
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:06 PM
Aug 2013

I was brought up in it as a PK.

- Still, blood's thicker.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

dickthegrouch

(3,265 posts)
55. If "religion is the opiate of the masses" ...
Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:23 PM
Aug 2013

Why isn't the war on drugs being waged on churches?

Fuck that church and all its hokier-than-thou sinners.

I prefer to live my life with integrity. An organization dedicated to nothing but sin and its consequences is as poisonous as sin itself. We're ALL better off without them IMHO.

libodem

(19,288 posts)
59. Wow
Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:28 PM
Aug 2013

This is partly why I cheered when Barney Frank came out as an atheist. He doesn't have to put up with repressive rejection from a source claiming to bestow unconditional love and acceptance on all believers. Eff that!!!

If they must believe, I hope they find q loving respectful place to worship, this fabulous Being, who loves all without measure. Go Goddess. Or Mother/Father god, as they called it when I went to Science of Mind. (Way back in the day)

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