Syrian government claims it found chemical weapons in rebel tunnels

[David Krout]

Source: The Guardian

The Syrian government has said it has discovered chemical agents in tunnels in Damascus after the killing of hundreds of Syrians in a suspected chemical weapons attack on Wednesday.

Syrian state television said government soldiers found chemical agents in rebel tunnels in the Damascus suburb of Jobar on Saturday and some of the troops were suffocating.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/24/syrian-chemical-weapons-rebel

---

This is now a matter of investigating whether rebels, government, or both, have used chemical weapons.

USA should heed Kerry's call for patience.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. Mossad

[Scootaloo]

2. For real? This?

Presuming the Syrians are telling the truth on this (I consider the whole situation "up in the air" at this point) then what in the world makes you point the finger at Mossad rather than... y'know... the insurgents in Syria?

we know there are chemical weapons stockpiles in Syria. we know that the Syrian military and the insurgents have been trading "strategic points" for the last two years. If these weapons really are in the insurgent's hands, then I see no reason to presume anything other than they were pilfered from a stockpile within Syria.

[Sand Wind]

4. Moooossssaaaadddd! The Jews did it !

[dipsydoodle]

8. Wouldn't think so.

It is yet unknown whether the chemicals contained sarin or just chlorine whatever. Individually there's nothing innocuous about the industrial grade chemicals , a bleach and an acid ,which release chlorine when mixed , as the warnings on domestic diluted stuff used as toilet cleaners whatever - hence the warning do not mix.

The government would have had no need to hide such chemicals. Mention had been made some weeks back of the insurgents having stocks of such chemicals.

Back in 1963 I accidentally created something akin to fluorine , the precursor of sarin , when I knock over a can of specialised cleaning fluid into a bowl containing a bleaching agent. Best avoided - makes your eyes water and cough a lot.

[DLnyc]

42. Actually, just from article, it's pretty solidly established that "neurotoxins" were used.

Chlorine is not a neurotoxin. So I think it is known that the chemicals were something in the same family as Sarin, and that they were not "just chlorine or whatever".

But it added that the symptoms, as well as the "massive influx of patients in a short period of time" strongly suggest mass exposure to a neurotoxic agent.

[MyNameGoesHere]

15. Rumsfeld.

Or Cheney

[jessie04]

40. Ohhh....I get it !!..... The Jews did it.

not one speck of evidence but you get to smear them.

[Sand Wind]

3. LOL : "Army heroes are entering the tunnels of the terrorists and saw chemical agents" sic

Last time their friends from FARS where saying that Jews where eating human flesh.

They express themself more and more like the old soviet.

[David Krout]

5. speaking of eating human flesh

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/05/17/syria_s_lung_eating_rebel_explains_himself

[Sunlei]

6. and the helicopters, tanks and missile launchers to fire the ammo?

[newfie11]

20. CIA. Nt

[penultimate]

27. CSIS

[Sand Wind]

32. Silva David and Jethro Gibbs did It.....

[Bernardo de La Paz]

7. If Assad knew he didn't fire the chemicals, he would have brought in the inspectors ASAP. nt

[dipsydoodle]

10. That doesn't follow

Allowing the inspectors into that area would necessitate stopping the bombing which could allow the insurgent to regroup.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. It does follow: definitively pinning it on the rebels would be worth allowing a little regrouping.nt

[Sand Wind]

34. +1000 nt

[David__77]

38. Only if they can encircle the area to prevent escape of infiltration.

And I don't think that's the case. A ceasefire under either conditions would endanger the capital because the terrorists have been randomly lobbing shells into residential areas. It would be inhumane to stop the campaign to clear those areas of terrorists.

[Arctic Dave]

11. If the rebels had the chemicals they would keep fighting until they could hide them.

What if they had them in a building and the military bombed that building spreading the chemical.

Just like the US did when they blew up Iraq's arsenal.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. And then it would be clear that they were the ones not allowing the inspectors in. Instead

It is clear that Assad is not letting the inspectors in.

[Arctic Dave]

17. Clear?

From who?

The inspectors are on the ground a few miles away. If Assad didn't want them there why did he allow them in?

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. He hasn't let them in - "a few miles away" is not good enough for inspection

You know that, too, but keep repeating this "they're not far away" line as if it convinces anyone but you.

[Arctic Dave]

19. So you are saying, he invites the UN in to investigate for chemical weapons use

then he gases people to show he is not gassing people just as they are a few miles away?

Do you hear what you are saying?

Why did they rebels continue to fight? This could have been their chance to leave and have Assad outed for using chemicals? They chose to stay and fight more and not allow the inspectors in.

They could have dropped everything, left the area, have the inspectors come in and see what happened. The inspectors would report it to the UN and they would have bombed the shit out of Assad.

So if they are saying they would have lost ground or any of that other stuff, that is nonsense. It would have been checkmate, end of match for Assad.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. It's Assad preventing the inspectors. It's Russia pressuring Assad (finally) to allow inspection of

It's Assad preventing the inspectors from going to the area. It's Russia pressuring Assad (finally) to allow inspection of the area.

The rebels continue to fight for their lives and for their families lives.

[Arctic Dave]

25. The inspectors are in country.

If the rebels were smart they would have left asap, drop everything, and let the UN inspectors in.

Shelling an area isn't going to hide enough of the evidence if chemical weapons were used.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. So you are saying the rebels gassed hundreds of their own people including their children?

No they did not murder their own children.

[Arctic Dave]

23. AQ is not from Syria and they would be doing it to other peoples children.

Are you saying fanatics wouldn't fly planes into buildings and kill thousands of people?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. AQ is present but is only a small part of the struggle.

[Arctic Dave]

26. AQ and outside fighters from around the world are there.

Fanatics would do anything to further their causes.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. Here's one of your posts in a serious thread (pic). Can't take anything you say seriously.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3369690

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. It's Assad bombing and shelling the area

That is what makes it impossible for the inspectors to go there, and also destroys evidence. Not the presence of rebels, whether AQ or Syrian.

Government forces, meanwhile, pummeled the targeted rebel strongholds where the alleged attack occurred with airstrikes and artillery for a second day, violence that was likely to complicate any swift investigation into the mysterious circumstances surrounding the deaths.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/syria-war-chemical-attack_n_3793966.html

[Comrade Grumpy]

31. Some CBW experts doubt the rebel version of events.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/500559/20130821/syria-britain-raise-ghouta-chemical-attack-un.htm

Chemical weapons experts are divided over the latest chemical attack report. Gwyn Winfield, from the CBRNe World magazine specialised in chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear and explosive weapons told IBTimes UK that "there is some form of chemical used" but it could well be a riot control agent used in the wrong way.

Winfield also expressed suspicion over the timing of the attack, given the UN inspectors have just entered the country with the acquiescence of Assad.

"It is not impossible that some faction in the Free Syrian Army did it to get attention or maybe it was an accident by an inexperienced operator who may have not realised what he was doing," he said.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

36. Some good points. But the over-arching point is that Assad KNOWS.

Assad knows if he used chemical weapons or not. If he did not use chemical weapons, then he knows the rebels did. He wouldn't care if the rebels were careless or incompetent. He love to get the UN to find the blame and point the finger.

He would behave differently if he hadn't used them to kill those people. It would be a huge win for him on the world stage if he could get a UN certification that the rebels used the gas. But he isn't moving that way, he's making moves in the opposite direction. Therefore it is extremely likely that he used the gas on Syrians and does not want it exposed.

If the UN found the rebels were the ones who gassed civilians including children, then Assad would be able to get the weapons he wants in a big way from Russia and China with impunity. Sources of funds and arms for the rebels would be strangled by world opinion and by diplomacy.

But Assad knows who used the gas.

[David__77]

37. The UN cannot and will not determine who used weapons (if they were used).

They've already said this. Why do people think the UN can or will make this determination?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. Actually, you are right. Thanks for reminding me.

[Comrade Grumpy]

39. Frederick Pleitgen of CNN just reported that Iran says Syria will allow the inspectors in.

He is in Damascus, right on the edge of the line between rebel and government controlled territory.

He also interviewed a government soldier who said his comrades had been sickened and hospitalized, and he showed that footage running on SANA of a supposed rebel chemical weapons cache.

[Ghost Dog]

35. It's not up to just Assad. The UN is blocking its own inspectors:

The world's governments are demanding that Syria immediately let United Nations inspectors onto the scene of alleged chemical attacks that killed as many as 1,800. But even if Bashar al-Assad's regime gave the inspectors permission to visit the disputed battlefields right now, they still couldn't leave. The U.N. is blocking its own inspectors, at least for the moment.

Kevin Kennedy, a retired U.S. Marine colonel who heads the U.N. Department of Safety and Security, told a small group of reporters at U.N. headquarters on Friday that he hasn't given the inspection team a green light to visit the site of the supposed attacks. His office is still carrying out a security assessment to see if it is safe enough to go.

/... http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/23/un_blocking_its_own_chemical_weapons_investigation_into_syria

[Hayabusa]

9. Sure they did...

[jakeXT]

14. What if it's not the desired result, like in May when some at the UN accused the Rebels ?

UN accuses Syrian rebels of chemical weapons use
Syrian rebels have made use of the deadly nerve agent sarin in their war-torn country's conflict, UN human rights investigator Carla del Ponte has said.

By Damien McElroy and agencies

9:04AM BST 06 May 2013

"According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas," del Ponte, a former war crimes prosecutor, said in an interview with Swiss radio late on Sunday.

"We still have to deepen our investigation, verify and confirm (the findings) through new witness testimony, but according to what we have established so far, it is at the moment opponents of the regime who are using sarin gas," she added.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10039672/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html

[AgingAmerican]

16. Projection

Assad is taking a page from the Republicans.

[summerschild]

30. There are those who say US interference will result in a proxy war between US & Iran or Russia.

We know Israel (and all the old PNAC neocon crowd) would love that. I think Assad is smarter than that. And I don't think the Syrian rebels would kill their own people.

[Sand Wind]

33. Yes, and we cant help anybody if its also help Israel , right ?

That goddam little country....