UK Parliament Syria Vote Defeated

[Purveyor]

Source: Guardian UK

The nos have it. 272-285

The British government lost a crucial vote in the UK parliament that was designed to pave the way for military strikes in Syria.

Cameron spoke after losing the vote. It sounded like he was conceding that the UK would not participate in any US-led strike on Syria.

"While the house has not passed a motion, it is clear to me that the British parliament, reflecting the will of the British people, does not want to see military action."

He says he'll respect that.

[hr][hr]

AP: UK PRIME MINISTER CAMERON LOSES SYRIA WAR VOTE

LONDON (AP) -- British Prime Minister David Cameron has lost a vote endorsing military action against Syria by 13 votes, a stunning defeat for a government which had seemed days away from joining the U.S. in possible attacks to punish Bashar Assad's regime over an alleged chemical weapons attack.

Thursday evening's vote was nonbinding, but in practice the rejection of military strikes means Cameron's hands are tied. In a terse statement to Parliament, Cameron said it was clear to him that the British people did not want to see military action.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_SYRIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-08-29-17-43-07

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/29/syria-crisis-iran-says-all-efforts-must-be-made-to-prevent-military-action-live

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[muriel_volestrangler]

1. I can give you a link to a 1 line live blog entry

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2013/aug/29/mps-debate-syria-live-blog#block-521fbea0e4b01790173db566

"The government has lost by 285 votes to 272 - a majority of 13."

[Purveyor]

2. Thanks. CNN is slow getting out copy so I redirected to The Guardian. eom

[go west young man]

5. They were probably trying to get a

Miley Cyrus update out.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Details here

UK government motion on Syria intervention defeated in parliament http://rt.com/news/uk-parliament-vote-syria-181/

[another_liberal]

4. All we and our allies have done . . .

It is beginning to seem that all we and our allies have done so far is to elevate Assad to the level of an underdog bad boy. He is nowhere near to becoming a counter culture hero, but let the missiles start flying and even that may come to pass.

It is clearly time to back off a bit and reform, despite the urgency with which some of our Middle Eastern allies may demand an immediate attack.

[John2]

9. You are referring

to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey of course, along with Israel. Some Middle Eastern Allies indeed.

[another_liberal]

15. All of the Middle Eastern allies you mention here . . .

With the addition on Jordan and Kuwait, all of the Middle Eastern allies you mention here are indeed urging us to attack.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Are they all urging an attack?

Arab League refuses to back military strike on Syria

The leaders of the Arab world have blamed the Syrian government for a chemical weapons attack that killed hundreds of people last week, but declined to back a retaliatory military strike, leaving President Barack Obama without the broad regional support he had for his last fresh military intervention in the Arab world - in Libya in 2011.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/arab-league-refuses-to-back-military-strike-on-syria-1.1508030

Pope, Jordanian king say dialogue only hope in Syria

[another_liberal]

27. Not as members of the League of Arab States, no they are not.

Israel, of course, and to a lesser extent Turkey, are more up front and public about it. However, it is an open secret that all the Arab nations mentioned would like to see Assad removed from power. The money and weapons they have given to Syrian rebels testifies to that.

They may prefer that it be done under a UN Security Council blessing, but they want Assad gone.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. There's a significant difference between wanting Assad gone, and wanting a US/western attack

on Syria. That's what this vote has been about, really.

[another_liberal]

29. I'll grant you that.

There is indeed a considerable difference. There is also a considerable difference between official, public statements and private policy initiatives.

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. hot damn...this is BIG!!!!!!

UN Security Coucil is not rushing to judgement,either.

The permanent members of the United Nations Security Council made no comment after meeting to discuss a British resolution calling for international military action in Syria after an alleged chemical weapons attack.

Envoys from the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China gathered on Thursday afternoon at UN headquarters in New York. The meeting was called by the Russian delegation, and ended with no statement from the participants.

A similar meeting on Wednesday ended after more than an hour with no agreement.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/2013829175841960446.html

(This was written before the MP vote in London)

[Celefin]

8. And seriously so!

"With some 30 Labour MPs absent, it was Tory ones that sunk Cameron this evening."

"Worth pointing out how historic this is. British has been subservient to US foreign policy since Suez in 1956. A big moment"

(Guardian politics live)

God it's good to see some democracy and MPs acting on what they feel is right, not along what the party tells them.
A big moment, indeed.

[John2]

12. I wonder how

the French Government would vote on this issue? Polls show they are against it too. Our own Government is bought and payed for.

[dipsydoodle]

17. US is more or less out on a limb now.

Defence Secretary Philip Hammond confirmed that Britain would not be involved in any military action against the Assad regime - but said it would probably go ahead in any case.

"I expect that the US and other countries will continue to look at responses to the chemical attack.

"They will be disappointed that Britain will not be involved. I don't expect that the lack of British participation will stop any action."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783

Germany wasn't particularly interested and elsewhere you'll find France is having second thoughts.

Red line here . Do with it as you please.

[another_liberal]

44. It is clearly red . . .

And rarely read.

Clearly a line

Though not aligned.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. Excellent!!!

[former9thward]

10. Let's hope our Congress listens.

Last edited Thu Aug 29, 2013, 06:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Only 9% support intervention in Syria. Will Congress and the administration support the people? Let's take a break from our never ending war with Asia.

[jakeXT]

14. Ted Cruz did a bit of mocking

http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/middle-east-north-africa/319373-cruz-tweets-unacceptable-photo-of-empty-congress-as-brits-debate-syria-strike

[yoloisalie]

19. And this too

https://twitter.com/repjustinamash/status/373200744415236096

[Civilization2]

31. Great graphic! democracy,. or not?

[David__77]

37. Ted Cruz is right on this.

And the nominally Democratic elites that want to bamboozle us into another war, in a haphazard and illegal fashion would not just endanger the Obama presidency, but the whole Democratic Party. Throw in the fact that this would be giving aid and comfort to the sworn enemies of the US, and you have a terrible scenario indeed.

[David__77]

11. Wonderful news.

Obama better pay attention!

[John2]

13. They are above our pay grade and

intelligence these days. They have all the information and we have to do as told by the elites.

[onehandle]

16. 'Nonbinding.' nt

[jessie04]

18. Brilliant ...Just Brilliant.

Now every piss-poor dictator will resort to chemical weapons.

And biologic and nuclear won't be far behind.

[David__77]

26. Al Qaeda is sad today.

...

[another_liberal]

33. Yeah, it won't be just the U. S. and Israel anymore, right?

It's been a pretty small club until now, the WMD users that is.

[jessie04]

35. And thats just fine with you, right ?

[another_liberal]

36. Of course it isn't "Fine with me!"

We have, by our entitled attitudes and entitled actions, set the bar rather low, haven't we?

[Nihil]

47. Did you mean "biologic" like "using the Ames strain of anthrax within the USA"? (*)

We all know which "piss-poor dictator" resorted to nuclear weapons.

So, have fun when J. Random Stranger decides to "punish" (=murder, & maim)
the civilians of *your* nation because he wants to waggle his dick for his
masters back home ...





(*) of which there is more evidence to tie to your previous president than
there is to tie the largest chemical attack in recent years to Syria's president.

[totodeinhere]

21. I am not too familiar with the parliamentary system, but shouldn't that vote

compel Cameron to resign? Shouldn't it be interpreted as a vote of no confidence in his government?

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. No confidence motions have to be explicit ones

or, I think, the rejection of a budget.

[totodeinhere]

25. OK, thanks for the clarification. But I did read that some of the backbenchers

were shouting "resign."

[obxhead]

22. woohoo!

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. The Guardian links to Robin Cook's gravestone - I never knew it said this:

[idwiyo]

43. Thank you for posting this. RIP.

[Civilization2]

30. Will this quite down the "democrat" hawks on this site?

Will the US go it alone,. and bomb anyway?

[another_liberal]

34. If we do . . .

It would be a foreign relations disaster which might take decades to recover from if we do.

[Divernan]

40. Obama administration spokesman says U.S. will "go it alone"

In answer to your question. See my post #39 below.

The vote came just before US President Barack Obama was scheduled to meet with congressional lawmakers and other key leaders to brief them on possible military action in Syria. White House deputy spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters Thursday that the US was prepared to “go it alone” in Syria to protect American “core national security interests.”

http://rt.com/news/uk-parliament-vote-syria-181/

[Supersedeas]

42. the coalition of one

[BillyRibs]

32. This is what happens When

You have reasonable representation in a lower house of government. 1-93,000. Un-like the US House of representatives, 1-750,000. no wonder GB seems to be getting more and more sane.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. The "WMD Terrorism Boogieman" crap isn't flying anymore with the British Public either.

Last edited Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:30 PM - Edit history (1)

[Divernan]

39. Obama continues to beat the war drum - sellout to MIC!

[blockquote

Phillip Hammond, the UK Defense Secretary, said the US “will be disappointed that Britain will not be involved”, however he did not think it would halt the process, “I don’t expect that the lack of British participation will stop any action,” he told the BBC.

The vote came just before US President Barack Obama was scheduled to meet with congressional lawmakers and other key leaders to brief them on possible military action in Syria. White House deputy spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters Thursday that the US was prepared to “go it alone” in Syria to protect American “core national security interests.”

“The president of the United States is elected with the duty to protect the national security interests of America,” he said. “The decisions he makes about our foreign policy is with our national security interests front and center.”

Doug Brandow, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, told The Guardian that “caution has grown” within the Obama administration. “I think they’ve found over the last couple of days both a lack of support at home, both among the American people and Congress, and then they look internationally and suddenly they don’t feel quite so surrounded by friends,” he said.

http://rt.com/news/uk-parliament-vote-syria-181/

[quadrature]

41. Cameron --> monkey with a hand grenade ....nt

[blkmusclmachine]

45. Alrighty, then.

[dipsydoodle]

46. Iraq war ghosts end UK plans to take part in Syria action

"Commentators said it was the first time a British prime minister had lost a vote on war since 1782."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/30/uk-syria-crisis-britain-idUKBRE97S0IL20130830

Posted because the headline sums it up well. We mugged off on Iraq - never again.

[avaistheone1]

48. Kudos to Parliament.