U.S. Spy Report Sparks Outrage as Brazil Demands Answers

[ocpagu]

Source: Bloomberg

Brazilian officials are voicing outrage and along with Mexico demand the U.S. explain why it allegedly intercepted the phone calls and e-mails of their presidents as part of an anti-terror surveillance program.

The allegations were made Sept. 1 by American journalist Glenn Greenwald, who obtained secret documents from fugitive security analyst Edward Snowden in May, on Brazil’s most-watched TV news magazine, Fantastico.

“This represents an inadmissible and unacceptable violation of Brazilian sovereignty,” Brazil’s Foreign Minister Luiz Alberto Figueiredo told reporters in Brasilia yesterday about spying allegations. “This kind of practice doesn’t live up to the type of trust needed to have a strategic partnership.”

In one document, the National Security Agency highlights software that was used to probe Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff’s communications with several unidentified aides. Brazil’s government will decide how to respond after it receives a written response to the allegations from U.S. authorities, Figueiredo said.

Read more:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-02/u-s-spy-report-sparks-outrage-as-brazil-demands-answers.html

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-02/u-s-spy-report-sparks-outrage-as-brazil-demands-answers.html

[gopiscrap]

1. It should spark outrage in the US also but it won't

we've become a nation of sheeple.

[pnwmom]

6. Why should it? The NSA and CIA are supposed to be spying on foreign countries.

It's when they spy on US citizens that we should be concerned.

[Celefin]

18. Spying on international friends under anti-terrorism programs?

Brazilian officials are voicing outrage and along with Mexico demand the U.S. explain why it allegedly intercepted the phone calls and e-mails of their presidents as part of an anti-terror surveillance program.

I'd take that as a grave insult and absolutely a reason for outrage.
The article gives the impression of this being the main reason, not the actual spying; although that was probably not very well recived either.

[pnwmom]

19. Brazil is a close ally with Cuba, with whom we have long had a strained relationship.

So I'm not surprised we'd be spying on Brazil. But I would think the spying would have started long before our current anti-terror surveillance programs.

[Celefin]

21. That implies Brazil would sponsor hypothetical Cuban terrorism

Which is a pretty grave accusation in my mind; were the assumption to be made public.
Of course the spying was likely in place beforehand, I'm not disputing that.

[pnwmom]

22. No, it doesn't. As I said, I think we were probably spying on Brazil

and its relationship with Cuba long before the anti-terrorism programs began. So the fact that we probably do that implies nothing about Cuban terrorism.

[Celefin]

23. Hm... guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then

Thanks for the civilized discussion.

[pnwmom]

24. Thank you! n/t

[Jeneral2885]

20. exactly

soon with freedom of speech and human rights, spy agencies will have to have quadruple congresssional/parliamentary approval or even citizen approval before they can spy on people or organisations. Might as well have done that in WWII and let the Nazis win

[Uncle Joe]

27. How is WWII relevant to our current times or for that matter to this particular situation? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

2. This is the way to treat friends? Or do "we" really have any friends, after all? n/t

[Lobo27]

3. Aren't Mexico and Brazil some our biggest trade partners?

Pissing them off is certainly gonna help the economy.

[pnwmom]

8. Do you think our interests are completely aligned with Mexico's?

Are you aware of connections between the drug cartels and government officials?

Don't you think it could be in our interest to gather information to help us make better decisions when dealing with Mexico?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/americas/official-corruption-in-mexico-once-rarely-exposed-is-starting-to-come-to-light.html?pagewanted=all

In 2011, the federal attorney general’s office opened an investigation into a $3 billion debt in the state of Coahuila, acquired mostly during the administration of Humberto Moreira, a former president of the PRI, which recovered the presidency in December. The former governor of the state of Aguascalientes, Luis Armando Reynoso, is being investigated over improper exercise of public service, news organizations have reported.

Last year, Mario Ernesto Villanueva Madrid, the former governor of the state of Quintana Roo who was extradited to the United States in 2010, pleaded guilty to conspiring to launder millions of dollars in bribes he received from the powerful Juárez drug organization, to ensure that its cocaine moved safely through his state, undisturbed by law enforcement.

Inroads in transparency, however, have yet to change the culture and mentality of “El que no tranza, no avanza,” or “He who does not cheat, does not get ahead,” a popular motto here. And these victories have yet to transform the country’s image abroad: Mexico fell in Transparency International’s corruption perception index to 105th place in 2012 from 57th in 2002, with a lower ranking indicating that the country is seen as more corrupt.

“We still don’t have accountability,” said Mr. Cancino, the political analyst, who warned that progress in transparency practices at the federal level would slowly make their way down to the local and state levels. “There are still 32 battles that we have to wage,” he said, referring to Mexico’s 31 states and one federal district.

[Lobo27]

13. Yes, I know the corruption is crazy down there.

The point is why do it to allies. What if tomorrow it is reported Mexico did the same to Obama or to a GoP senator. The calls for war would be astronomical.

[pnwmom]

16. No serious people would be calling for a war on Mexico because they were discovered

to be spying on us.

In fact, I'd be shocked if they didn't at least have cyber-spies.

[ocpagu]

17. True, no serious people would be calling for a war on Mexico for such a thing.

The not so serious people in the US government and the MIC would, though. They just need a lousy excuse for war, after all.

[cui bono]

4. k n r

[DeSwiss]

5. If we're doing Brazil and Mexico.....

...you know we're doing everybody else. Why, stop there? It's like the process of spying has taken over and they couldn't stop it if they wanted to.

- This is probably how Skynet first got the idea.....

K&R

[pnwmom]

7. And other countries are spying on us. This is news? n/t

[DeSwiss]

9. Are you accusing Brazil and Mexico!?!?

- Our bestest friendzzzzzzz!?!?!?!?

[pnwmom]

11. I think it would be stupid to blindly trust Mexico, given its political situation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannon-k-oneil/corruption-in-mexico_b_3616670.html

To read Mexico's papers recently has been a study in corruption. The exposés involve every political party and level of government. Governors -- including those from the states of Tabasco, Coahuila, Aguascalientes, Tamaulipas, Baja California Sur, Chiapas, and Quintana Roo -- have been some of the most covered offenders, with allegations involving missing public funds (reaching the hundreds of millions of dollars), collaboration with drug traffickers, murder, and money laundering. Public figures once considered untouchable, such as the former head of Mexico's Teachers Union, Elba Esther Gordillo, were publicly pilloried (as well as arrested).

Corruption in Mexico is of course nothing new, but it is hard to remember a time when there were so many cases unveiled in such close temporal proximity. The influx has led many casual observers to bemoan an increase in corruption, and indeed Mexico's perceived corruption ranking by Transparency International fell from 57 in 2002 to 105 in 2012). But look beyond the headlines, and it would be hard to argue that Mexico is that much more corrupt today than in decades past. The more likely explanation is that what has changed is Mexico's ability to expose bad behavior.


SNIP

Perhaps Mexico's biggest challenge is the follow through on these revelations. Mexico's Attorney General's office has won few convictions on corruption charges. And in some of the highest profile cases, such as that against Tijuana's former mayor Jorge Hank Rhon, the prosecutor's bungling achieved something many thought hard to do -- making the PRI scion look like a victim.

Until Mexico is able to do more than name and shame corrupt public officials, the incentives for them to desist from favoring their friends and lining their pockets remain limited. The current government and Attorney General's office now have numerous potential cases from which to choose -- all opportunities to set an example and begin changing the current dynamic by holding elected officials accountable.



http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm

Rankings of countries on corruption

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

[Lobo27]

14. This sounds just like our goverment.

I don't see a difference, cartels buying of politicians in Mexico. Gun companies buying off senators and reps in the US.

Public funds gone in Mexico, in the US lets borrow from SSA it'll be ok...

[Dustlawyer]

25. How are we 17th? Our elections, with unlimited campaign cash from BIG DONORS

who then control our politicians only gets us 17th? I guess because we have less corruption in day-to-day interactions maybe? We don't have to bribe the DMV to get a drivers license but they cut social welfare programs for tax cuts to the rich and fund the MIC!
I would like to read more on this and how it is done, thanks for posting!

[pnwmom]

10. Are you aware of the connections between the drug cartels in Mexico

and government officials? Why shouldn't we be collecting information on the situation there that has bearing on our relations with Mexico?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/americas/official-corruption-in-mexico-once-rarely-exposed-is-starting-to-come-to-light.html?pagewanted=all

In 2011, the federal attorney general’s office opened an investigation into a $3 billion debt in the state of Coahuila, acquired mostly during the administration of Humberto Moreira, a former president of the PRI, which recovered the presidency in December. The former governor of the state of Aguascalientes, Luis Armando Reynoso, is being investigated over improper exercise of public service, news organizations have reported.

Last year, Mario Ernesto Villanueva Madrid, the former governor of the state of Quintana Roo who was extradited to the United States in 2010, pleaded guilty to conspiring to launder millions of dollars in bribes he received from the powerful Juárez drug organization, to ensure that its cocaine moved safely through his state, undisturbed by law enforcement.

Inroads in transparency, however, have yet to change the culture and mentality of “El que no tranza, no avanza,” or “He who does not cheat, does not get ahead,” a popular motto here. And these victories have yet to transform the country’s image abroad: Mexico fell in Transparency International’s corruption perception index to 105th place in 2012 from 57th in 2002, with a lower ranking indicating that the country is seen as more corrupt.

“We still don’t have accountability,” said Mr. Cancino, the political analyst, who warned that progress in transparency practices at the federal level would slowly make their way down to the local and state levels. “There are still 32 battles that we have to wage,” he said, referring to Mexico’s 31 states and one federal district.

[DeSwiss]

12. I'm SHOCKED!!!

So you're saying it is within our purview to bug the phones and email of a sitting President in another country, one who is not our enemy, but an ally? One to whom we sell jets and tanks and stuff? Oh right, never mind. I guess they are our enemy.

- There seems to be a lot of them.......

Ed McMahon: ''Oh Carnac The Magnificent, mystical sage that you are -- I hold in my hands a letter that has been hermetically-sealed and placed inside a mayonnaise jar, held on Funk and Wagnall's back porch until NOON TODAY! NO ONE! No one has seen the contents of this letter. But you with your strange and mysterious powers of divination shall reveal to us their contents without opening it.'' {hands him the letter}

Carnac The Magnificent: {holds letter to his head and closes his eyes} ''A public castration.''

Ed McMahon: {annoyingly repeating} ''A public castration.''

Carnac The Magnificent: {glares at Ed, then says} ''What did the British House of Commons recently give to David Cameron?''

[pnwmom]

15. Yes, I am. They may be an ally, but that doesn't mean we can trust them blindly.

Especially not with their history of corruption.

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/

And Brazil has excellent relations with Cuba, which is the opposite of our ally. I'm not surprised that we would be following communications between those countries.

[idwiyo]

26. K&R

[Rain Mcloud]

28. Remember when Mom clouted you for rolling you eyes when she said:

"If everyone else jumped off of a cliff then it would be okay for you to do it too?"
Pepperidge Farms Remembers.