HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Florida boy, 6, drowns in...

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:14 PM

 

Florida boy, 6, drowns in Carnival cruise ship pool

Source: CNN.com

(CNN) -- A 6-year-old central Florida boy drowned in a pool on a Carnival Cruise ship over the weekend after hasty efforts to resuscitate him failed, the cruise line said Monday.
The boy, of Winter Garden just outside of Orlando, was spotted under water in a mid-ship pool by passengers Sunday, according to a police report and one witness account. It occurred when the ship was returning from its last leg of a four-day Caribbean cruise.
Passenger Deshaun Christian, 23, who witnessed the rescue, told CNN iReport that the incident caught people, enjoying music and dancing, off-guard.
Christian said a DJ first discovered the boy struggling in the water and immediately stopped the music. A guest then jumped into the pool with his clothes on and pulled the boy out, followed by a crew member who unsuccessfully tried to revive the boy, Christian said. The boy was pronounced dead shortly after.
"It was a lot of chaos, people were going crazy, people were praying, they had their hands to the sky. It was a scary scene, seeing a little boy just lifeless," Christian said.
</snip>

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/14/us/florida-boy-drowns-carnival-cruise/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



How can this happen with lifeguards around the pool? It sounds like chaos that turned into tragedy.

92 replies, 11402 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 92 replies Author Time Post
Reply Florida boy, 6, drowns in Carnival cruise ship pool (Original post)
Cooley Hurd Oct 2013 OP
kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #1
trumad Oct 2013 #2
msanthrope Oct 2013 #5
Beacool Oct 2013 #22
Amimnoch Oct 2013 #31
Beacool Oct 2013 #39
markpkessinger Oct 2013 #29
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #32
CoffeeCat Oct 2013 #54
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #65
CoffeeCat Oct 2013 #70
Blue_Tires Oct 2013 #84
crim son Oct 2013 #91
merrily Oct 2013 #57
Neoma Oct 2013 #76
Callmecrazy Oct 2013 #3
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #11
Paulie Oct 2013 #42
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #47
Rhiannon12866 Oct 2013 #4
Post removed Oct 2013 #63
Catherine Vincent Oct 2013 #6
dbackjon Oct 2013 #23
JI7 Oct 2013 #7
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #8
avebury Oct 2013 #14
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #15
avebury Oct 2013 #17
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #18
avebury Oct 2013 #26
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #27
markpkessinger Oct 2013 #33
EX500rider Oct 2013 #38
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #41
EX500rider Oct 2013 #43
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #44
EX500rider Oct 2013 #45
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #46
EX500rider Oct 2013 #48
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #50
EX500rider Oct 2013 #51
Violet_Crumble Oct 2013 #60
Mojo Electro Oct 2013 #67
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #49
Violet_Crumble Oct 2013 #59
SouthernDonkey Oct 2013 #87
snooper2 Oct 2013 #9
Snake Plissken Oct 2013 #10
Callmecrazy Oct 2013 #13
markpkessinger Oct 2013 #35
avebury Oct 2013 #12
Lasher Oct 2013 #21
dembotoz Oct 2013 #16
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #19
moriah Oct 2013 #24
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #25
mitchtv Oct 2013 #68
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #71
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #73
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #74
darkangel218 Oct 2013 #75
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #77
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #78
Mz Pip Oct 2013 #53
Lefta Dissenter Oct 2013 #64
Beacool Oct 2013 #20
LibDemAlways Oct 2013 #28
Sunlei Oct 2013 #30
markpkessinger Oct 2013 #34
Sunlei Oct 2013 #36
smokey nj Oct 2013 #52
Live and Learn Oct 2013 #58
Ash_F Oct 2013 #62
53tammy Oct 2013 #66
Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2013 #83
petronius Oct 2013 #85
treestar Oct 2013 #82
kimbutgar Oct 2013 #37
Decoy of Fenris Oct 2013 #40
zonkers Oct 2013 #55
CTyankee Oct 2013 #72
zonkers Oct 2013 #80
CTyankee Oct 2013 #81
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #86
CTyankee Oct 2013 #89
No Vested Interest Oct 2013 #90
CTyankee Oct 2013 #92
CoffeeCat Oct 2013 #56
davidpdx Oct 2013 #61
mitchtv Oct 2013 #69
davidpdx Oct 2013 #79
Shampoyeto Oct 2013 #88

Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:20 PM

1. Where were the PARENTS?? You don't trust your kid's safety to

 

freakin' lifeguards on a crowded cruise ship.

And the freakin' praying, with hands in the air, WTF good is THAT gonna do?????? Learn CPR and you won't need to pray for Gawd's help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:32 PM

2. Yeah unreal...

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:39 PM

5. Kids can drown in an instant. In fact, if a parent isn't aware of what drowning looks like, a

 

child can drown right in front of them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:51 PM

22. Yes, they can.

Unlike in the movies, people drown quietly. One minute they are there and the next they are not. Parents need to watch kids like a hawk when they are in the water, whether it be a pool, lake, river or ocean.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Beacool (Reply #22)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:45 PM

31. Or even a bathtub at home.

 

Last year there were 317 deaths in the US as a result of drowning in a bathtub. When you figure a national average of 3,533 drowning deaths a year, that's a very significant number.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Amimnoch (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 07:54 PM

39. You're correct.

I should have included bathtubs too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:36 PM

29. Absolutely correct! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:46 PM

32. I came an *instant* from drowning as a kid

and this was at a soccer team pool party at a friends house with a bunch of parents standing around...I tried to wave and yell for attention, but no one came for me until I was already at the bottom of the deep end...I think with the music, food and other kids yelling and splashing, I just blended in...

Mercifully, someone's mom dived in and pulled me out...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #32)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 10:46 PM

54. Oh my gosh, that must have been so terrifying...

...and I'm sorry that you went through that as a kid.

I am glad that you were rescued and that you are here today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #54)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 10:17 AM

65. You wouldn't believe it if I told you

but I had a remarkable sense of peace about my fate at the bottom of the pool (even though I was down there for moments in real time it seemed like hours to me)...I was only 6, so I guess I didn't know enough about life yet to be "afraid" of the thought of dying...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #65)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 12:36 PM

70. That's an amazing experience...

If I may ask--I've heard people who have had near-death experiences say that they
no longer fear death. Do you find this is true of yourself, due to this experience?

Did you lose consciousness?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #70)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 10:32 AM

84. I'm not sure

it was this weird half-conscious state...I remember being close to the pool drain or whatever it's called at the deep end, and thinking "oh, so that's what that thing looks like up close!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #65)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 04:25 PM

91. Interesting. At about the same age

I had almost exactly the same experience in the pool of a family friend. There were people all around the pool but when I fell in, nobody noticed. I sank like a stone and remember looking up through the water to the sky and feeling utterly calm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msanthrope (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 12:26 AM

57. True. It almost happened to my son while his father and I were sitting on the edge of the pool,

facing him, less than four feet from where he was "doggie paddling" at age 7.

Thank heaven, an airline pilot was standing in the pool, even closer and grabbed him. The water was only a bit above the waist of the pilot.

When I was 9, I almost drowned in camp, amid many other swimmers, including adults--and I knew how to swim.

It's not that cut and dried.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 06:02 PM

76. A lot of people don't know what drowning looks like.

It's not a lot of splashing and screaming for help. Usually it looks like someone trying to climb a ladder that isn't there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:37 PM

3. I could be wrong...

but I don't remember there being Lifeguards on my last cruise.
And yeah, where the hell were the parents? This story sucks on so many levels. A fantastic vacation turned tragic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Callmecrazy (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:23 PM

11. I have never seen lifeguards on any cruise ship, and

I have been on many cruises on many cruise ship lines.
I have never been on Disney - so can't speak for that line.

This is very sad.
Hope the parents were not at the bar, or worse, getting a "quickie", thinking the children were well occupied.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:11 PM

42. No life guards on Disney either

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Paulie (Reply #42)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:30 PM

47. I thought it likely that Disney wouldn't have life guards

but, since they specialize in children's events, I speculated that if any cruise line had them, it would be Disney.
Thanks for clarifying.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:37 PM

4. What are "hasty efforts to resuscitate him?"

Doesn't everyone working on that ship know CPR?!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #4)


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:52 PM

6. RIP little one

"In an e-mail to CNN, Carnival Cruise spokeswoman Joyce Oliva said the company does not have lifeguards on duty at its pools, and parental supervision is required for children under 13."


It appears the parents left the 10 year old to watch him. And now the kid will feel guilty. Such a shame.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Catherine Vincent (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:56 PM

23. Parent should have the rest of the kids taken from them.

 

Unfit parents

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 04:57 PM

7. i wonder how long he was there, and especially about the parents

what were they doing ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:03 PM

8. No lifeguards, huh Carnival??

 

With all the money you make you could afford hiring some, assholes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:27 PM

14. I have sailed on three different cruise line, including Carnival.

Cruise ships don't have lifeguards and the pools are really not that big to begin with. It has been a while since I have cruised but I think that it is even posted that there are no lifeguards. You get in the pools at your own risk. Responsibility really rests with the parents (or what ever guardians were there with the child).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to avebury (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:31 PM

15. There really should BE lifeguards, no matter how small the pools are.

 

I've never been on a cruise, not my kind of soup. But from what I hear people tend to drink a lot . Having lifegurds is just logical in this type of circumstance. And they can afford it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #15)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:43 PM

17. I have been on several cruises and, while some

parents are great with their children, there are some parents that are not so great. They are the problem because they act like they should be on holiday from parenting when parenting is a 24 hour/354 day a year job. Having your 10 year watch your 6 year old is a recipe for disaster. That kid will probably be screwed up for life now.

On every ship that I have been, the company has posted signs on what is a allowed and what is not allowed. A cruise ship pool is really not that different from a beach where it is posted No Lifeguard, Swim at you on risk. The bottom line is that it is the responsibility of the parent or guardian to keep an eye on their child.

There are generally so many people around the pool (particularly on sea days) is boggles my mind that it took the DJ to figure out that there was a problem.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to avebury (Reply #17)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:45 PM

18. Thats why it shouldnt be left to chance.

 

I hope they change their policies soon.

Not soon enough thoough, for those who have already died.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #18)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:10 PM

26. I am more interested in the fact that parents (or guardians) need to

be responsible for the minors under their control. This is for the safety of the minors (drowning is not the only bad thing that can happen to a child on a ship). You cannot assume that everyone on board (staff or fellow cruiser) are safe to be around your child unchaperoned.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to avebury (Reply #26)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:16 PM

27. Consider where they were! on a cruise ship, with free alcohol, and no work to get up for in the morn

 

They are not the first irresponsible set of parents and won't be the last.
Cruise ships should have lifeguards. That's the bottom line. You can't enforce/guarantee that all parents can be responsible, but you can at least have lifeguards on super mega ships like this who CAN afford them. The cost for lifeguards would be negligible, condidering the overall company revenues.
And the life they'd be saving will make it all worth it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:46 PM

33. Exactly, darkangel218 . . .

. . . This was, tragically, totally foreseeable given the reality of what happens on cruise ships. I don't dispute that the parents were negligent also, but I don't think merely posting signs alleviates the cruise operator from its responsibility to take reasonable precautions to mitigate obvious dangers; and accessible, unguarded pools are an obvious danger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 07:48 PM

38. In a ship where you can..

.....crawl over a rail and fall into the ocean a 6 year old should not be out of parental sight.

If a pool says "swim at own risk" as all hotel pools do, you don't let a 10yo watch a 6yo.

If the child drowned at a Ramada would you want all hotels to have life guards?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EX500rider (Reply #38)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:07 PM

41. A cruise ship is not Ramada.

 

People abuse alcohol on cruise ships, everyone knows that. All cruise ships should have lifeguards considering the circumstances. That simple.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #41)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:12 PM

43. Rightttttttt....nobody ever parties at hotels!

The facts remain that if there is no life guard then you watch your 6yo at the pool. Even if there IS a life guard you still watch your 6yo at the pool.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EX500rider (Reply #43)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:13 PM

44. Comparing Ramada with cruise ships is just silly.

 

Gah...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #44)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:20 PM

45. No it's not, a cruise ship is just a floating hotel.

Don't get hung up on "Ramada"-go to any beach resort hotel and they will have a bar and no lifeguard.

Parental responsibility for your child's safety takes no vacations.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EX500rider (Reply #45)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:29 PM

46. No it fucking isnt!!

 

How many people stay cupped up in a hotel for a week or weeks on end?? No having to drive, go to the meetings, nothing! Just HAVE FUN??

Your logic fails.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #46)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:41 PM

48. Not really sure what a resort is, are you?

People go to all inclusive resorts and don't leave the entire time they are there and there is free alcohol and pools and maybe even a ocean.

And a resort is A LOT safer then a large moving ship at sea.

Maybe the cruise lines should station someone every 20 feet along the rails also so untended 6yo's don't climb over and fall in the sea, possibly at night while doing 25 knots. I mean, it's not the parents responsibility right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EX500rider (Reply #48)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:45 PM

50. Oh, i dont know what a resort is now! lmao!

 

Take your condescendence elsewhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #50)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 09:07 PM

51. Well yeah you kinda do sound like that.

How many people stay cupped up in a hotel for a week or weeks on end?? No having to drive, go to the meetings, nothing! Just HAVE FUN?? Your logic fails.

That's exactly what people do at a resort, don't drive, don't go to meetings and just have fun. No logic fail there, sorry.
Maybe you need to get out more..?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #46)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 01:42 AM

60. It's clear that you've never been on a cruise...

Disney's a family focused one, sort of the same as Royal Caribbean. P&O does really short cruises here that the locals call 'booze cruises', but there were few kids on the one I went on. On the Royal Caribbean one I went on, it was longer, during the school holidays, lots of kids, and I didn't see anyone wandering around drunk the entire time. On the other hand, I've been to plenty of backyard barbeques where there's kids in the pool, adults drinking, and *gasp* no lifeguard on duty...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #41)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 11:40 AM

67. As has been said multiple times

Responsibility for the safety of children in this type of circumstance rests with the parents.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #27)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:41 PM

49. Alcohol is not free on a cruise ship, except for a reception, where wine and

punch, etc. are served.
As for lifeguards, remember that virtually all ships are under foreign registry; they don't have to conform to U.S. law, and it's not realistic to think that is going to happen. There are very few Americans in the crew, except perhaps on Disney and the Norwegian ship that sails around the Hawaiian Islands.

This was the last day of this particular cruise, so the parents had to have been very much aware that there was no lifeguard. They made a very serious and tragic mistake.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #27)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 01:37 AM

59. Free alcohol? Tell me which cruise line so I can book a cruise with them!

I've been on P&O and Royal Caribbean, and neither of them have free alcohol. It'd really cut my costs if I went on one where there was free booze!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to avebury (Reply #26)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 01:12 PM

87. Agreed! If you think it takes a village

then you shouldn't be a parent! It's a no brainer that you should watch your own child and not expect it from others. Providing lifeguards also probably would leave them open to more liability. I'm sure they will still be found to hold some responsibility for this tragedy. But if you are the inattentive parent, that wont bring your child back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:09 PM

9. praying with hands waving

 

No fundies, that's not going to do anything-

Maybe at least search on your smartphone for "proper CPR technique"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:15 PM

10. People need to stop blaming Carnival Cruise Lines and the parents and take some self responsibility

by blaming this tragedy on President Obama.

Sincerely,

Ted Cruz

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Snake Plissken (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:27 PM

13. Snake Plissken?

I thought you were dead?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Snake Plissken (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 07:06 PM

35. It isn't necessarily an either/or question . . .

Yes, the parents were obviously negligent. But given the reality of what happens on cruise ships, the cruise operator also has a responsibility to take reasonable precautions against any obvious dangers. And I'm sorry, an unguarded, accessible pool is an obvious danger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:24 PM

12. As far as I know, no cruise ship company has lifeguards for their pools.

Cruise ship pools are really not that big. It boggles my mind that no one noticed that the boy was in trouble before the DJ. I have sailed on three cruise lines on 8 different ships and the pool area is normally pretty crowded. Where on earth were the parents?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to avebury (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:50 PM

21. Big doesn't matter as much as deep.

How deep are these pools? If no more than 3 feet, for example, then I could understand having no lifeguards - while making clear that people under 3 feet tall need to be supervised by those who brought them along.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:43 PM

16. pools and little kids do not mix well

cruise or no cruise

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dembotoz (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:45 PM

19. Pools without lifeguards and kids dont mix well. *

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #19)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:04 PM

24. Even with lifeguards, leaving a 10-year-old to supervise a 6 year old at a pool is STUPID.

Hate to be judgy, and yes, they're going to pay for this mistake the rest of their lives. But their 10-year-old will be screwed up the rest of his, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to moriah (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:07 PM

25. I agree the parents should be held acountable.

 

But considering how much money Carnival makes off their costumers , they really should invest a few pennies in a couple of lifeguards. At least for the kids pools.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 12:19 PM

68. if you consider that they trawl the third world

looking for the lowest paid, non union help, it really is a matter of pennies

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mitchtv (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 01:44 PM

71. Yes, they are low paid, nonunion help, but

those I've met on numerous cruises are well-trained, polite, hard-working people, trying very hard to please the guests, knowing that any complaints against them will cost them any chance of advancement and perhaps even their job.

These are facts of life in most of the world.
We in the U.S. and the Western world are the exceptions to most of humanity and most of history.
No need to denigrate the others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #71)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 04:39 PM

73. True that.

 

So glad that I never went on a cruise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #73)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 05:52 PM

74. Chaque a son gout.

Cruises can be good vacation bargains, giving all family members a chance to be together when they wish, ex. mealtimes, and to go their own way during the day, exploring various cities and countries, meeting people of different cultures, exchanging ideas, etc.

Travel of any kind is broadening; Americans need to learn more about the various peoples with whom they share this planet.

Any one kind of vacation or travel is not for everyone. It's wonderful when we can choose what works best for ourselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #74)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 05:58 PM

75. I travel a lot. I just prefer to stay away from cruises.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #75)


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #75)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 06:09 PM

78. Enjoy!

Last edited Wed Oct 16, 2013, 11:32 AM - Edit history (2)

Edit: preveious message deleted because it is a duplicate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to moriah (Reply #24)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 10:39 PM

53. I do feel for the 10 year old.

A high school friend of mind witnessed the death of her 2 year old brother. She was holding his hand and he bolted loose and ran into the street. Happen in a split second. She was 12 when it happened and spent years in and out of therapy. After 3 suicide attempts, she succeeded at 31.

I hope the 10 year old gets plenty of support.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mz Pip (Reply #53)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 06:48 AM

64. I'm sorry, Mz Pip. (n/t)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 05:48 PM

20. Errrr.........where the hell were the parents?????????????

Now they will probably sue Carnival, although they were the ones who weren't vigilant.

Poor little guy, may he rest in peace.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:20 PM

28. Near my father's grave at the local cemetery lies

a 2 year old whose mother entrusted his 12 year old sister to watch him while she took a nap. The toddler was playing by the family pool in the backyard when the girl went in to get a snack -- with tragic results. Never ever under any circumstances leave a small child without adult supervision anywhere near a pool. Recipe for disaster.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 06:39 PM

30. That's tragic.Can't believe they couldn't revive him because he was spotted while 'struggling'

maybe they didn't get the water out of his lungs first or the DJ was mistaken and the child had drown for several mins

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sunlei (Reply #30)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 07:00 PM

34. Read, mark and inwardly digest this article . . .

It's hard to tell from the article whether the DJ actually saw "struggling," or simply noticed a boy in the water. "Struggling" may well have been a bit of editorial license on the writer's part. But do read the following article in any case:

[font size=4]Drowning Doesn’t Look Like Drowning[/font]

[font size=3]In many child drownings, adults are nearby but have no idea the victim is dying. Here’s what to look for.[/font]

[font color="gray"]By Mario Vittone[/font]

The new captain jumped from the deck, fully dressed, and sprinted through the water. A former lifeguard, he kept his eyes on his victim as he headed straight for the couple swimming between their anchored sportfisher and the beach. “I think he thinks you’re drowning,” the husband said to his wife. They had been splashing each other and she had screamed but now they were just standing, neck-deep on the sand bar. “We’re fine; what is he doing?” she asked, a little annoyed. “We’re fine!” the husband yelled, waving him off, but his captain kept swimming hard. ”Move!” he barked as he sprinted between the stunned owners. Directly behind them, not 10 feet away, their 9-year-old daughter was drowning. Safely above the surface in the arms of the captain, she burst into tears, “Daddy!”

How did this captain know—from 50 feet away—what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10? Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. If you spend time on or near the water (hint: that’s all of us) then you should make sure that you and your crew know what to look for whenever people enter the water. Until she cried a tearful, “Daddy,” she hadn’t made a sound. As a former Coast Guard rescue swimmer, I wasn’t surprised at all by this story. Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event. The waving, splashing, and yelling that dramatic conditioning (television) prepares us to look for is rarely seen in real life.

The Instinctive Drowning Response—so named by Francesco A. Pia, Ph.D., is what people do to avoid actual or perceived suffocation in the water. And it does not look like most people expect. There is very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind. To get an idea of just how quiet and undramatic from the surface drowning can be, consider this: It is the No. 2 cause of accidental death in children, ages 15 and under (just behind vehicle accidents)—of the approximately 750 children who will drown next year, about 375 of them will do so within 25 yards of a parent or other adult. In some of those drownings, the adult will actually watch the child do it, having no idea it is happening.* . . . .

< . . . . >

Sometimes the most common indication that someone is drowning is that they don’t look like they’re drowning. They may just look like they are treading water and looking up at the deck. One way to be sure? Ask them, “Are you all right?” If they can answer at all—they probably are. If they return a blank stare, you may have less than 30 seconds to get to them. And parents—children playing in the water make noise. . . .

< . . . . >

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to markpkessinger (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 07:08 PM

36. good article. yes drowning is silent

child's brother & parents will never get over this tragedy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to markpkessinger (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 09:25 PM

52. Thank you for this link.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to markpkessinger (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 12:39 AM

58. +1 People are so quick to blame others

and most have no clue how easily (and silently) a drowning can occur.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to markpkessinger (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 03:49 AM

62. Spot the drowning kid.

See if you can spot it before the lifeguard blows his whistle.

By the way, the 30 seconds line is not accurate. Most of the time it wouldn't be too late. You obviously want to get there ASAP, though.

I personally saw something like this, when I was lifeguarding, actually. The kid could swim. I watched him swim over to his taller siblings, but I guess he wasn't that strong of a swimmer and just panicked when he couldn't stand up there. He didn't utter a sound. His brother and sister were at arms reach, but didn't notice. Got to him quickly and it turned out fine. I was just a kid myself; 14 years old.

Part of our training was to watch a video of a boy actually drowning to death at a crowded pool. The videographer didn't notice and the lifeguard was schmoozing with a girl in the same frame. They noticed too late. It scared us straight.

We also did a lot of roleplay in our training. It was a fun job. very physical.

Didn't pay shit, of course.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ash_F (Reply #62)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 11:16 AM

66. thank you

for something useful.
Many of us have not had to face the loss of a child or the harsh judgment of others who either don't know the facts or don't care to.

I will look at the water and my grandchildren in a different light from now on and hope others will to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ash_F (Reply #62)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 09:07 AM

83. That video is chilling.



I have read the article up-thread about how deceiving the sight of a drowning person can be. But that video... wow. Even though that girl exhibited "classic" signs of drowning it is easy to see how it could be missed in all the commotion.

A couple things.

Maybe people should ease up on the parents in the OP.

Maybe we should consider laws regarding these "swim at your own risk" establishments since we know it often takes an EXPERT to spot drowning.

But good luck with regulating and/or suing a cruise line. Between contractual disclaimers, foreign registries and the hiding behind "laws of the seas" they are fairly immune not much more than a refund of a ticket price - if that.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ash_F (Reply #62)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 10:43 AM

85. Damn, that's a frightening video! Thanks for posting it...

The article Mark posted above is what I always think of at stories like this one - just how difficult it really can be to notice someone in trouble during commotion, and what that 'trouble' might actually look like. I can easily imagine how parents and other kids around the ship's pool might have overlooked a more subtle event...

It was pretty cute, though, how the other little kids worked to get the lifeguard back his hat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to markpkessinger (Reply #34)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 08:23 AM

82. Very informative.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 07:43 PM

37. My son when he was young we went on two cruises

It looked like chaos in the pool and the only way he was allowed in that pool if he was with me or his Father. We used to take him to the pool during the first dinner seating. It was empty and he had a good 30-45 minutes in the pool. The we showered and went to dinner. I would never let him in the pool by himself because it was too crazy and chaotic. I guess those parents enjoyed too many cocktails and socializing by the pool to keep an eye on their child. There was no excuse for him drowning but parental negligence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 08:00 PM

40. Carnival pools are deathtraps.

 

On the last cruise I was on, the pool was filled with people almost shoulder to shoulder, most of whom were dancing wildly. I know that if I was -looking- for a drowning person I would be hard pressed to find them in that mess.

Tragic all the way around.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 10:48 PM

55. Cruises are disgusting. They pollute the ocean. You catch strange diseases on them. And now this.

 

Fuck cruises ships.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zonkers (Reply #55)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 01:49 PM

72. I travel a lot but the only cruise I would consider would be a small ship on a river in Western

Europe with no pools. It's bad enough with the viruses you can get, and pass along, on international flights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #72)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 11:10 PM

80. That sounds like fun. Lets go!!! I need a vacation.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zonkers (Reply #80)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 07:56 AM

81. Hubby and I have been looking at a Vantage cruise. He has mobility issues and hasn't been

able to travel with me, so I've had to join groups or travel with a buddy or buddies. In 2009, I went to Portugal with some gal pals and we called ourselves the "six broads abroad." It was so much fun!

The Vantage trip accommodates folks who get around with a cane like my husband. Not too many stairs and transportation to sites on land. He wants to do a cruise on the Seine because it goes to the Normandy beach for the 70th anniversary of the Normandy invasion.

You might want to look at Adventures Afloat at www.roadscholar.org for more information...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #81)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 11:52 AM

86. I hear very good things about river cruises in Europe, though

I haven't done one as yet.
My spouse, now deceased, also had mobility issues; mostly used a wheelchair on cruises the last few yeas we were able to cruise, though also used a 4-footed cane in small spaces.

We did go on the large cruise ships in the Caribbean; they are used to having many passengers with disabilities and are very helpful.

We would get a cabin near the elevator nearest the dining rooms, since that is what one eeds several times a day. We had a disability cabin once or twice, which is good, especially re the bathroom.

When going sightseeing off the ship, we usually booked the bus tours of a city or area; spouse often stayed on, especially if it was a quick stop; I was able to see each stop more thoroughly. The tour guide usually provided plenty of info on the bus, and between bus driver, guide, and even other kind passengers, all went well.

We did go to France, including Normandy, on our last land tour. The French tour guide and driver were most solicitous. It was in November and the huge cemetery was very windy and blustery, but an awesome, moving sight. A priest in our group said Mass at an altar in the cemetery - unforgettable.

Best wishes with your plans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #86)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 02:48 PM

89. About the bus part of your trip on the ship, was it handicap accessible? that looks like it could be

a problem, just getting on in the first place.

I haven't done a river cruise before because my travel buddy get sick just thinking about being on water! She recently took a trip to Greece that involved ferries getting from island to island. She said it was very smooth. I was doubtful, having had some rough rides on the catamaran ferry I take from RI to Martha's Vineyard every summer. It can be brutal!

Road Scholar has a wonderful river tour through southern Spain and I have it on my bucket list. I love RS and will be taking my 5th trip with them in March (to go on the Piero della Francisca Trail through little towns in eastern Tuscany). I have another land trip with them on my list, going to Provence. I also want to go back to Barcelona at some point...

Thanks for your observations about Normandy. I probably won't be going in November and you just reinforced that! Early October would probably be the better choice...

Happy travels to you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CTyankee (Reply #89)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 03:16 PM

90. The buses were not handicap accessible in the US sense of definition, but

between driver and me, and spouse's own control, he could get on. Often the driver had a stepstool to help on that big first step. Spouse was mostly given the front seat on buses. Vans were a somewhat easier, occasional cars more so.
There were many places we could not see as completely as we would have otherwise. Ex. - Mt. St. Michel, Carcaisson. Both too hilly and with uneven streets made of rocks, so I would find a place for spouse to sit - cafe, etc. - while I looked around the area at the base. Spouse was a good sport about it all, which helps.

Spouse & I took a few Elderhostel (now RS) trips, mostly in US but one to Costa Rica. - They are great, very well run. I've done two on my own in US - St. Augustine, FL and New Harmony IN. RS is a group in which one can feel very comfortable being a single traveler, though I've slowed down a bit in my desire to travel alone in the last year.

Your plans in Europe sound terrific. As a senior, I would want to go abroad now only if one of my (adult) children was available to accompany me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #90)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 04:43 PM

92. This will be my 3rd RS trip by myself. Nobody else I knew was interested...

but I love art history and I find kindred folk in that regard on RS. And they match me with a roomie so all is well usually. Hubby wouldn't love standing around cathedrals or castles like Carcasson that I would LOVE to see...

If we do the trip on the Seine in the fall, we'll have another friend who will come along as a single. He's a retiree also and we have a great time together. So hubby will have me and our friend to help him out.

I almost did take a trip with my adult daughter and granddaughter (age 17). It was something that we thought would be helpful to her in her future college major of Marine Biology (in Valencia, Spain), but she just was not doing well enough in school and in her family relationship to merit a trip to Europe...I had hoped for it, because it would have been just wonderful, but it was not to be, I guess...I'm still sad but hopeful she'll get better...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Mon Oct 14, 2013, 10:50 PM

56. I don't understand how a parent could leave a 6 year old unattended in a pool!

My girls are 12 and 13--and this is the first year that I allowed them to go to the public water park without me.

This is the equivalent of sending a six year old to the pool by himself. Someone said that the ten year old was supposed to watch the six year old. Ok--a ten year old isn't capable of supervising a six year old in a pool. It's unfair to the ten year old to give him/her that responsibility.

That was really poor judgment, on the part of those parents. I feel for them and I am devastated for them that they lost their son, but I can't imagine what they were thinking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 03:27 AM

61. I have to wonder if one of the areas of the pool had suction to clean it and maybe that dragged him

down. 5 year olds aren't that strong and so it certainly would be a possibility. A tragic event.

Child or no child I would never go on one of those floating death ships.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Reply #61)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 12:25 PM

69. not to mention

a floating Petri dish

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mitchtv (Reply #69)

Tue Oct 15, 2013, 10:04 PM

79. Yes, eww!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cooley Hurd (Original post)

Wed Oct 16, 2013, 02:09 PM

88. The parents should be prosecuted

 

For neglect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread