New galaxy 'most distant' yet discovered

[Octafish]

Source: BBC

By Rebecca Morelle
Science reporter, BBC World Service

An international team of astronomers has detected the most distant galaxy yet.

The galaxy is about 30 billion light-years away and is helping scientists shed light on the period that immediately followed the Big Bang.

SNIP...

The system is small: about 1-2% the mass of the Milky Way and is rich in heavier elements.

But it has a surprising feature: it is turning gas and dust into new stars at a remarkable rate, churning them out hundreds of times faster than our own galaxy can.

CONTINUED...

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24637890

---

z8_GND_5296



It's on the other side of practically forever.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

1. "It's on the other side of practically forever."

[Poll_Blind]

33. +1 nt

PB

[RKP5637]

51. Even with the good mileage on my car i'd have to fill up a couple of times to get there! LOL n/t

[Archae]

2. Not "it is."

It was.

We are looking at the galaxy as it was, 30 billion years ago.
Long before our own teeny mudball existed.

(Creationists have a dandy "explanation" for the incredible distances, they say "God created everything to have the appearance of age, so as to test our faith." Just how venal and stupid is their deity?)

[Agnosticsherbet]

6. How odd that a supposed loving God creaed the Universe as a massive Con

job, so that every detail is a trick to get Gods creations not to believe in that God, so that God can cast its creations into Hell and torture them for all eternity for accepting the universe as it appears to be.

[Xipe Totec]

11. It does sound silly when you put it that way. nt

[Myrina]

7. I was (un)fortuntate enough to be stuck in the whirlpool at the gym with some of these ...

.... they were chatting about how they 'taught' the Big Bang to their Sunday School kids & even though the science was staring them in the face & one of them earnestly said "God created it this way for his own amusement".

WTF? They don't understand & can't accept the scientific facts, so it's got to be some kind of magic trick to pass God's spare time?

[RKP5637]

52. Thanks for posting this! Stupid even pales to even begin to describe the

stunning absence of intelligence in creationists.

[christx30]

56. So what you are saying is that

what we are looking at is a Long, Long time ago. In a galaxy far, far away.

[thereismore]

3. Methinks there's a typo. It should be 13 billion ly away, not 30.

The Universe is about 13 billion years old.

[brooklynite]

5. Yes but...

...if it's moving in one direction and we're moving in the other, that could explain the extra distance.

[Treant]

8. 30 Billion is correct

The galaxy in question would have been much closer when that light was emitted, closer even than 13.1 billion light years. However, the space between us has been expanding while the light traveled.

It's a difficult integral, but all things considered light requires 13.1 billion years to cover far less than 13.1 billion light years--while always moving at exactly the speed of light.

At the present date, said galaxy is now estimated at 30 billion light years away, outside of our current visible universe. But when that light was emitted, it was inside our visible universe.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

9. (I was wrong) If 30 billion light years is correct, then the record was more than doubled.

Edited to add that I'm wrong in my assertion. From the Wikipedia entry on the universe:
"The Universe has not been the same at all times in its history; for example, the relative populations of quasars and galaxies have changed and space itself appears to have expanded. This expansion accounts for how Earth-bound scientists can observe the light from a galaxy 30 billion light years away, even if that light has traveled for only 13 billion years; the very space between them has expanded."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe

--
(original, incorrect assertion below)

Here's an article from last year talking about the most distant galaxy discovered at that time, estimated at 12.91 billion light years. Since everything in the universe is moving away from everything else in the universe at light speed, relative to any single one of those objects, then something that's 30 billion light years distant would mean that the object is at least 30 billion years old. I believe it's less than half of that.

[D Gary Grady]

20. It depends on which distance scale one uses

As you note, the universe is expanding, so when we see light from a galaxy outside the local group, we're seeing it as it was when it was closer to us. The estimated actual separation today -- the "comoving" distance -- is of course greater. But usually it's the former distance that's given in reports of new galaxy discoveries. Apparently the comoving distance is given here, which makes it difficult to compare different reports, but since galaxies from the very early universe have already been observed, this one can be only marginally farther away.

Incidentally, not only are there almost certainly galaxies too distant for us to observe. it's likely that only an infinitesimal fraction of galaxies are in the part of the universe we can see. Space appears to be "flat" (euclidean) on a large scale, or at least very nearly so, which likely implies that it's far vaster than we can see and quite possibly infinite. (It's still common to refer to the observable universe as "the universe," in part since it's the only part whose existence we can verify empirically.)

Eventually expansion will carry galaxies outside the local group beyond the light horizon, so to astronomers of the remote future, the observable universe will consist of a one big elliptical galaxy (formerly our galaxy, the Andromeda galaxy, and other neighbors) surrounded by an immense lonely emptiness. The only evidence of the gazillions of other galaxies will be in whatever records survive from earlier epochs, such as ours.

[cpwm17]

22. I'm assuming that the 30 billion light-years away

figure is posible due to the assumed fact that the early Universe expanded far faster than the speed of light, which created a Universe where objects were much further apart in light years than than the actual age of the Universe.

This doesn't violate the light speed limit since in the early Universe it was space itself that expanded faster than the speed of light rather than the objects moving through space faster than the speed of light.

[thereismore]

28. Very good post. In a way, we are really lucky to even see anything outside the Milky Way.

A few billion years into the future we could indeed feel very lonely.

[Igel]

29. And they're seemlessly mixing and matching.

Sloppy, if they're writing for a lay audience. Leads to the kind of semi-informed audience interpretion that it was "30 billion years ago" when the article says 13.1 bya.

[Poll_Blind]

34. "But when that light was emitted, it was inside our visible universe."

That makes my head hurt. But in, like, the nicest possible way outside of an unexpected smile from a pretty lady.



PB

[Posteritatis]

26. 13.7bn years old and 93bn lightyears across. Cosmological expansion gets counterintuitive. (nt)

[brooklynite]

4. Hmm...why would God put a Galaxy that far away and make it appear so old?

[onehandle]

18. He's the ultimate practical joker.

I still think 'The Flintstones' is funnier.

[Igel]

30. There are two classes of creationists.

Those who think that the universe is however old that it is, with the Earth "re-created" 6000 or so before present.

Those who think that the entire universe is 6k or so years old.

They don't have a whole lot in common. Rather uncomfortable to be arguing against the latter and find that the person you're arguing against agrees with you most of the time. Ruins a perfectly good ego-fest.

[SpankMe]

10. I don't buy it.

Current scientifically-derived best-estimates of the age of the universe put at around 14 billion years. How can there be an energy source 30 billion light years away?

Something's not right here.

[Bacchus4.0]

16. space expands faster than light, only light and objects are limited to the light speed limit

The space between galaxies is not limited by the speed of light. Only objects and things within space are limited to a maximum speed, not space itself. Dots on a balloon will become more distant as the balloon inflates. As the distance increases between the dots, it takes light longer to go from one dot to another.

[Uncle Joe]

37. So if something could hookup to the expanding galaxy it could go faster than the speed of light?

In essence turning the object in to space.

[Bacchus4.0]

43. mass becomes infinite at the speed of light according to relativity

So an object could not travel the speed of light. Space itself is not constrained by light speed.

[Uncle Joe]

44. In theory at some point in the future could it be possible to create a photon double bubble

surrounding an object, with one layer operating as a particle and the other as a wave?

If it could be, would that make a difference?

[derby378]

54. Or, according to one physicist...

...you might be able to exceed light speed by letting space itself propel your craft inside a special spacetime "bubble" that can be contracted in the front and expanded in the rear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

[Uncle Joe]

55. That is a fascinating article, the key seems to be finding or creating the necessary exotic matter.

Two-dimensional visualization of the Alcubierre drive, showing the opposing regions of expanding and contracting spacetime that displace the central region.

The Alcubierre metric defines the warp-drive spacetime. It is a Lorentzian manifold, which, if interpreted in the context of general relativity, allows a warp bubble to appear in previously-flat spacetime and move away at effectively-superluminal speed. Inhabitants of the bubble feel no inertial effects. This method of transport does not involve objects in motion at speeds faster than light with respect to the contents of the warp bubble; that is, a light beam within the warp bubble would still always move faster than the ship. As objects within the bubble are not moving (locally) faster than light, the mathematical formulation of the Alcubierre metric is consistent with the conventional claims of the laws of relativity (namely, that an object with mass cannot attain or exceed the speed of light) and conventional relativistic effects such as time dilation would not apply as they would with conventional motion at near-light speeds.

The Alcubierre drive, however, remains a hypothetical concept with seemingly difficult problems, though the amount of energy required is no longer thought to be unobtainably large.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_matter

In physics, exotic matter is a term which refers to matter which would somehow deviate from the norm and have "exotic" properties. There are several uses of the term.

Hypothetical particles which have "exotic" physical properties that would violate known laws of physics, such as a particle having a negative mass.
Hypothetical particles which have not yet been encountered, such as exotic baryons, but whose properties would be within the realm of mainstream physics if found to exist. Futurist Ray Kurzweil has speculated that by the end of the 21st century it may be possible by using femtotechnology to create new chemical elements composed of exotic baryons that would eventually constitute a new periodic table of elements in which the elements would have completely different properties from the regular chemical elements.[1]
States of matter which are not commonly encountered, such as Bose–Einstein condensates and quark–gluon plasma, but whose properties are perfectly within the realm of mainstream physics.
States of matter which are poorly understood, such as dark matter.

I believe one day science will be able to achieve this goal.

Thanks for the link, derby.

[Posteritatis]

25. No, that's right. The observable universe is actually about 93 billion lightyears in diameter. (nt)

[BlueJazz]

12. I'm going to have to drag out my trusty telescope and check that Galaxy out.

.
.
I do have LX80 6" but I'm afraid that's slightly too small (by a factor of 300)

[MisterP]

13. article says the light took 13.1B years to arrive, but space itself has inflated

so the place where it was is 30B ly away...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe

[Demo_Chris]

14. The mythology of Bronze age primitives hold the KEY to all this...

On the one hand we have the majesty of science and all the answers and truths it has revealed. It has shown us a universe with hundreds of Billions of galaxies, each galaxy packed with hundreds of Billions of stars. Science has allowed us to look 13 Billion years back in time, virtually to the moment of the Big Bang, and it routinely gives us miracles.

On the other hand we have the "miracles" of faith -- the big ones include such marvels as a talking snake, a burning bush, people rising from the dead, and toast that looks like Jesus. As they say: Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings.

[KansDem]

17. "Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings"

Thanks! I hadn't heard that one before.

I've added it to my repertoire of "comebacks."

[Demo_Chris]

31. I wish I could take credit for it, as it's perfect...

[warrant46]

24. Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings.

Nice---

That should fire up the criminal bling worshipers, between molesting children and burning heretics at the stake

[winter is coming]

15. Can we send the GOP there?

Or should we hold out for something even further away?

[Octafish]

19. Remember the Phantom Zone, where Superman sent Lex Luthor?

http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/superwhoswho/phantom%20zone.htm

There.

[bobthedrummer]

53. I remember Raven Rock and other "undisclosed" locations, I remember that we have a shadow gov. too

About Camp David: Raven Rock Mountain Complex
http://aboutcampdavid.blogspot.com/2011/08/raven-rock-mountain-complex.html

[riversedge]

21. ha ha.

[ThoughtCriminal]

32. There is no left or right in space

And nobody can hear the tea-baggers scream.
And you can't throw-up. You have to throw-out.

[Hekate]

23. Creation continues.

That sparkle is the stars in my eyes.

[lastlib]

27. Something puzzles me......

I can accept that there's an object thirty billion light-years from earth, but how are wee seeing it? Astronomers have consistently put the age of the universe at just under 14 billion years; in that time light can only have travelled 14 billion light-years, by definition. So light from an object 30 billion light-years away still would not have reached us, and won't reach us for another 16+ billion years. How do we see something that cannot have appeared to us yet?

. . .

(Or am I just an idiot who has no business playing with sub-atomic particles??)

[Bacchus4.0]

35. space itself is not limited by the light speed limit

the space between galaxies is moving faster than light speed. Only objects and energy that move through space are limited by light speed, not the space itself. Not sure exactly how we perceive it, but the 30 billion light years is the measure of distance from us, and not the age of the galaxy.

If the universe is 14 billion years old then the visible universe to us would be the entire universe since we can detect an object at least 30 billion light years away. That is not the case as we are still limited as to what part of the universe we can observe. The universe extends beyond 13.9 billion light years so its the space that is expanding faster than light.

[penultimate]

48. So would that mean that light we're seeing now from that galaxy

is actually the light it created when it was within that 13.9 billion light years distance? I'm assuming it would have to have been if we can see the light now, right? If I'm understanding this correctly, does that mean we know how fast the galaxy is moving or how fast space is expanding? I'm trying to understand how we know it is now 30 billion light years away.....

[AdHocSolver]

39. If space expands faster than the speed of light, the light from that galaxy can never reach us.

Your dubiousness is valid.

An airplane glider that flies 40 mph into a 50 mph wind will move backwards over the ground and not be able to reach its destination.

The hypothesis that space is expanding that is used to get around the empirical fact that an object is observed to be 30 billion light years away, which conflicts with the accepted theory that the Earth is only 14 billion years old, is promoted to justify the theory.

[grahamhgreen]

41. I would guess that it used to be much closer. That's the light we can see, not the

Light it's emitting now.

[TheKentuckian]

45. Expansion is kind of an alien concept for most and not crystal clear for anyone, as far as I can see

I also think that for some that get it, there is a near religious like need to think they have the full picture and just need yo fill ina detail or two.

Our current understanding may be little better than stone aged faiths in reality.

[bananas]

46. "a near religious like need to think they have the full picture"

Not just religious, but also dogmatic.

[grahamhgreen]

47. Maybe one can think of it like a fire hose at 50 yards, the water that's

Hitting you was coming out of the nozzle seconds ago, and is not the water coming out of the nozzle now.... Now imagine the nozzle is on a fire truck driving away from you....

Maybe that's even more confusing, lol

[DeSwiss]

36. Great!

- Now if we could just see what's in front of our faces.....

K&R

[Aristus]

38. 30 billion light years.

The record for hitch-hiking that distance is just under 5 years. But you don't get to see much on the way...

[grahamhgreen]

40. Shit! That's where I parked my car!!!

[lastlib]

42. I hope you had valet parking......

.

[penultimate]

49. That's theoretically impossible, and you know it...

It's like Manhattan, there are no open parking spots there.

[christx30]

50. At last...

we finally found a place where right wing policies make sense!