Al Gore: Snowden 'Revealed Evidence' of Crimes Against US Constitution

[Hissyspit]

Source: The Guardian

Al Gore: Snowden 'revealed evidence' of crimes against US constitution

Speaking at McGill University in Montreal, Gore said the NSA's efforts to monitor communications had gone to 'absurd' lengths

Adam Gabbatt in New York
theguardian.com, Wednesday 6 November 2013 18.12 EST

- Snip -

Gore, speaking Tuesday night at McGill University in Montreal, said he was in favour of using surveillance to ensure national security, but Snowden's revelations showed that those measures had gone too far.

"I say that as someone who was a member of the National Security Council working in the White House and getting daily briefings from the CIA," Gore said, in comments reported by the Canadian Press.

Gore had previously said he believed the practice of the NSA collecting US citizens phone records was unlawful and "not really the American way", but his comments on Tuesday represent his strongest criticism yet.

Asked about Snowden, the NSA whistleblower whose revelations have been reported extensively by the Guardian, Gore said the leaks had revealed uncovered unconstitutional practices.

"He has revealed evidence of what appears to be crimes against the Constitution of the United States," Gore said.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/06/al-gore-snowden-revealed-evidence-crimes-nsa

[DonCoquixote]

1. Al

I know some here will hate you, but please, please, run in 2016. You will have more liberal cred in your finger than many do in their body, and the bodies they helped bury.

[Jackpine Radical]

17. Al will not run & should not run.

Actually, I was one of the last clingers to an irrational hope for a Gore run in 2004. I hadn't been thrilled with his DLC credentials in 2000 although (of course) I had supported him after Bradley went down, but by 2004 I thought we were seeing a far less centrist Gore, and was particularly drawn by his environmental positions.

By now, however, whatever small fire in the belly he had for electoral politics is long-extinguished, and he's far more useful to the nation and the world in his current role.

[Samantha]

33. I hope he runs - he is my number one choice

but I think I will be disappointed.

Sam

[bitchkitty]

69. If he were going to run, he would never had said that. n/t

That's my feeling anyway. He's not running for office, so he's free to speak the truth.

[dotymed]

2. We all know this.

Why is this administration still treating a whistle blower as a traitor?

[FarPoint]

3. It appears to be how he

blew the whistle that is the problem.

[dotymed]

5. I think it is all about

who he blew the whistle on.

[FarPoint]

6. Nothing was ever reported at least

wherein he ever tired, or went through appropriate channels to expose the spying etc...I can't move away from the issue where this all started....*bush administration post 911. We all knew the wire-tap door, once open that it would fly wide open after that.....and so it did.

Let's hope the door is shut after all this.

[mother earth]

7. Appropriate channels, oh yeah, you mean whistleblower protection has NOT been overturned?

You are kidding right? I'm thinking Snowden maybe liked living, who the hell is NSA and CIA accountable to? Tell me.

We are living during a time when double standards rule and accountability doesn't exist...the right channels??? Okie Dokie, yeah nothing to fear, you'll be protected if you go through the right channels...too funny, you obviously have never had to deal with HR, never mind a gov't that has whittled away whistleblower protection laws.

[FarPoint]

8. I'm just not at the phase of passion

regarding this issue with Snowden. I imagine there were other avenues to utilize in accomplishing his exposure of truth. I think he chose poorly and find it cowardly to hide out in Russia. If he wanted to go the full monty, then stand trial and let the trial expose all.

[PeoViejo]

9. The Trial would have exposed nothing

The Prosecution would have proclaimed the Evidence to be State Secrets and Snowden would have gotten Life in a Supermax at best.

[think4yourself]

10. There was no other way left.

So tired of this. Others tried the "appropriate channels". Their careers were ruined, lives threatened and absolutely nothing changed.
Read up on Russell Tice, William Binney, Thomas Drake, Kirk Wiebe and Edward Loomis. They tried.
Snowden saw the results of their sacrifices and chose his path.
Thanks to him, only then did the MSM take notice.

[Titonwan]

22. Yer damn tootin'

People highly underestimate what this man's reasons were. He's a patriot and (shocka!) there's even people on the right that see this. (Disclaimer: they're usually wrong on every thing else, but hey).

[cantbeserious]

12. Hello - Extraordinary Rendition - Why Would Anyone Volunteer For Waterboarding

eom

[Titonwan]

14. My, but you do live in fantasy land...

Mr. Snowden sacrificed a life in paradise to inform you of a rogue agency and you actually believe this same government (that supports a rogue agency) will be 'fair' to someone exposing the sheer hypocrisy of this system?
Ed did extensive research on how the latest whistle blowers are being treated and knew with certainty that he'd be railroaded. You ever heard of 'indefinite detention'? Yes, it's been used on U.S. citizens before. Obama has taken the reins of Bush and doubled down on the secrecy. Deal with it.
That you, DiFi?

[ronnie624]

16. His trial would have likely been in secret.

It would have revealed nothing.

[dchill]

53. "other avenues..."

Would have been dead ends.

[Ranchemp.]

57. Dead ends is right,

but leave out the ends, and you have the correct answer.

[dchill]

61. Just so.

[JDPriestly]

71. "I imagine . . . " That's all it is vague imaginings. Wishful thinking.

Unfortunately, the history of NSA whistleblowing, the reality of it is pretty awful. Snowden did the right thing.

[cui bono]

74. No. There is no other way when the administration in charge has the worst record of prosecuting

whistleblowers of any admin.

Watch Greenwald's film http://www.waronwhistleblowers.com/robert_greenwald

It's not cowardly to not want to face an unjust system.

[mother earth]

81. FarPoint, I don't know there really was another option, Wm. Binney had

taken other options and continues to speak out, he would be the person I'd want to ask that question of. What should Snowden have done or could have done better? Binney absolutely agrees with the criminality of what is being done in the name of anti-terrorism, and believes all presidents serving over this unprecedented criminal and unconstitutional surveillance should be or should have been impeached. There really is no middle road in the criminality of the ongoing tactics the gov't is taking. He absolutely agrees with Snowden.

Frankly, Snowden sacrificed a lot in leaving this country. That point seems lost in the conversation. He's actually a man without a country now.

[frylock]

23. tell it to Thomas Drake

[reddread]

28. what everybody else said, plainly obvious, why are you oblivious?

and more to the point, why do you trust the corporate, partisan propagandists that have supplanted what we used to have
serving the public interest?

[bvar22]

63. "Appropriate Channels"?

That is just LAME.
Where have you been for the last 60 years?
Do you know what happens to people who use "appropriate channels" in the USA?
The "appropriate channels" are designed to PROTECT The System.


"Let's hope the door is shut after all this."

Have you seen anything that would lead one to this hope?
All I have seen is hostile denial from those responsible, including the President.

James Clapper: Obama stands by intelligence chief as criticism mounts
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/12/james-clapper-intelligence-chief-criticism

Thank GAWD for the Whistle Blowers.
They are the protectors of our Democracy.
I pray I would have the courage to go OUTSIDE the broken system if I were in their situation.

[JDPriestly]

70. People who tried to go through channels to blow the whistle on the NSA violations of the

Constitution ended up in the same or a similar situation as Snowden.

If prior whistleblowers had received protection for their whistleblowing I might agree with you. Going through proper channels would be preferable. But he would have been well informed about what had happened to prior whistleblowers. He chose wisely. The information would never have come out and he would have been in just as much trouble had he tried to go through channels.

Our government is too totalitarian to protect whistleblowers.

[cui bono]

73. It's habitual. n/t

[cantbeserious]

4. Al I Agree With You - Better Be Ready For The Underside Of A Bus

eom

[idwiyo]

11. Excuse me, Mr Gore, but your government treats Mr Snowden as traitor.

How about showing some integrity and call him what he is - a whistle-blower. That would be a good start.

[polynomial]

13. treason based moment

From my view after reading Al Gore’s book “Assault on Reason” gave me a another opinion about government and the people in it. To be honest I was not as cynical as Vice President Gore at the time. Now, looking at the basic Wiki definition is a total honest reflection on how I feel.

Wiki says:

“In the book, Gore argues that there is a trend in U.S. politics toward ignoring facts and analysis when making policy decisions. He heavily criticizes the George W. Bush administration for its actions in furthering the "assault on reason", and also the Congress, the judiciary, and the press for being complicit in the process.”

He was before his time according to Wikipedia. Now I not only agree with much of what his theme enhances what used to be the conspiracy notion about Bush/Cheney now is transforming to a real action premeditated planned totally orchestrated plot that arranged to hold the doors open for nineteen Arabs and one Egyptian to successfully commit an historical terrorist action.

Here NSA likely is what the current political and corporate people are talking about as the key players connected in that historic free market treason based moment.

We find out that the Bin Laden family primary investors in Booze Allen, key contractors to NSA with direct connections to the Bush family as business partners for decades has a rich flavor of treason beyond anything recorded in world history.

Of course Morning Joe on MSNBC through the years along with Rush Limbaugh also have the bull horn lies and deception with the deep pockets to avoid mainstream media disgrace that should be exposed. But know if you are the family that is connected to such a tragedy you would do anything including deception assassination and murder to avoid being caught. Snowden knows this and would be a fool to leave his sanctuary.

If this is all true, and the Russians give sanctuary to this Lone Ranger the American citizen will witness how the Russians might be able to either help Democracy or destroy it in America. I say they help it.

[Titonwan]

15. Right freakin' on, bro

This will go on forever unless we get the word out to liv's (low info voters) who blindly follow this 'democrat's agenda. The spooks are running this joint (h/t J.Edgar Sundress)

[Towlie]

18. "revealed ... crimes against the Constitution..." just like Harrison Ford in Clear & Present Danger

Jack Ryan, as depicted by Harrison Ford in the movie Clear and Present Danger, uncovered and revealed crimes against the Constitution by the President and the CIA, and presumably brought all of those involved to justice. Can anyone who saw that movie honestly claim that they saw Jack Ryan as a traitor who violated his oath? I doubt it, yet in the real world, so many people see Edward Snowden in that light. Why? It just doesn't make sense. Edward Snowden is just as much a real hero as Jack Ryan was a fictional hero in that movie.

[woo me with science]

19. Yes, Snowden is a hero.

The difference is that our corporate fascism has a massive surveillance and propaganda machine well in place to spew the corporate talking points, smear the whistleblowers, and quash any real dissent before it has a chance to organize.

States that build surveillance machines always build propaganda machines.

[Psephos]

27. right on the money n/t

[cui bono]

75. Because Obama.

At least with a lot of people that's it. And as far as media and politicians go it's corporate America, greed, TPTB. They have their plan in action and it's full steam ahead. Snowden put a kink in it. That cannot be tolerated.

[a2liberal]

20. I'm sure our resident NSA apologists

will be around to throw Mr. Gore under the bus shortly.

[Ash_F]

40. Republican apologists

NSA = Republicans

The Democratic Senate is starting to realize this and are regretting giving them so much power.

[woo me with science]

47. No, *NSA* apologists.

It is an absurd Third Way talking point to try to make this only about Republicans, when it's happening under a Democratic administration and President Obama and Dianne Feinstein are leading the charge to defend this shit.

[Ash_F]

62. It's not only about Republicans, true. Dems have a lot of responsibility.

But the NSA is a very right wing organization from top to bottom, and its leadership is mostly Republican high society types.

It's funny how when Acorn was allegedly over the line, Dems and pubs united to swiftly shut them down without evidence. Yet now that the NSA is clearly going wild, they are too tepid to reign them in. More and more are grudgingly speaking up though, after suffering constant indignity from the rogue organization.

[woo me with science]

66. PRESIDENT OBAMA is full-throated in defense of mass spying on Americans.

Corporate Democrats have enabled the spying and extended it, over and over again, through their voting.

Dianne Feinstein is pushing disgusting, deceptive legislation that pretends to rein in the NSA but actually legalizes its abuses.

They do not consider the spying to be the "rogue" actions of Republicans. They are working hard to ensure the spying continues.

The spying does not stop until we are able to unite against it and hold accountable EVERY politician and administration that is complicit, regardless of party.

[840high]

76. Thank you.

[mike_c]

21. the administration attacks the witness, while the real criminals still walk free....

Snowden is a national hero for shining a bright light beneath some very nasty rocks.

[woo me with science]

49. +1000000

[JDPriestly]

78. Yes.

[Purveyor]

24. Hearing quite a bit from Al lately and I ponder whether or not he would consider throwing

his hat in the ring for 2016?

[JDPriestly]

79. Yes. That would be great.

As I recall, Bill Clinton did not support Gore's run in 2000 as he should have. Gore might be willing to face off with Hillary and Gore might well win. Gore has spoken inconsistently at times, but he is strong on climate change, has a message of reform and would be a far less corrupt nominee than Hillary.

[dawn frenzy adams]

25. YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THE CONSISTUTION IN 2000, Al

You have no right, Al Gore, to complain about the Obama Administration. None! You never said a peep during the Bush Administration. What has occurred in this country is the result of YOU and John Kerry allowing George W. Bush to steal elections.

Please, remember Al Gore in this scene from Fahrenheit 9-11?

[reddread]

29. not very fair picking on the interested party. WHERE WAS WELLSTONE?

Not one Democratic senator in office then should be able to show their face in public.

[Samantha]

34. And his response at the time was

"There is no intermediate step between a final Supreme Court decision and a violent revolution…”

Unquestionably a very true statement, and that is what influenced him to step aside -- he did not want to provoke a revolution.

Sam

[Coyotl]

55. WTF?? And I thought everything was Obama's fault?

I'm really confused now. So everything is Al Gore's fault? Damn.

I'll have to change that meme.

[Coyotl]

58. It is spelled Constitution. And, all caps is considered shouting.

And, Al Gore doesn't read your posts on DU.

[HERVEPA]

26. Sad part about this

If he were the president, he would pretty much be saying the opposite.

[Douglas Carpenter]

31. if the Republicans had won in 2008 and were still in charge - 90% of the defamers of Snowden

and Greenwald here on DU would be singing their praises as heros of the Constitution. I would like to think though that a President Gore would have responded differently to 9/11 than a President Bush. I would like to think that we would have not gotten into those ill advised wars. I would like to think the Constitution would have been in safer hands.

[woo me with science]

60. Then it would be Republicans' turn to circle the wagons.

That's how they get away with it from administration to administration. The corporate authoritarians in both parties count on being able to keep us divided and defending our own team when it is in power, even though the parties merely take turns advancing the same fascist garbage.

None of this stops until we refuse to keep circling the wagons. We have to condemn and unite against what's wrong, no matter which party is committing the wrong.

[hughee99]

30. I wonder why he hates the President. n/t

[randome]

32. I wonder why he didn't say what crimes he's talking about.

Even Gore is jumping on the bandwagon? Maybe that's not so surprising considering how eager he was to jump on the Elian Gonzales bandwagon.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[HERVEPA]

35. Surely you jest.

Just do a little research. I don't need to do it for you.

[randome]

36. Gore needs to stay out of politics. He is much more useful to the world on the environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli%C3%A1n_Gonz%C3%A1lez_affair

Al Gore's[42] handling of the matter may have been as great a factor as anger by the predominantly Republican Cuban community over the boy's return to Cuba. Gore initially supported Republican legislation to give the boy and his father permanent residence status,[43] but later supported the Administration position. He was attacked by both for pandering and being inconsistent.

I will always take Gore's word about the environment over anyone else's but he played politics with Gonzalez. That was my 'WTF' moment with him.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[hughee99]

37. Do you think Gore is playing politics with this,

or do you think he just doesn't know what he's talking about.

[randome]

38. Since he doesn't specify what 'crimes' he means, I think he's just talking.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[hughee99]

41. A fine non-answer.

He did say this... "He has revealed evidence of what appears to be crimes against the Constitution of the United States,"

Do you think Gore is LYING about what he thinks Snowden has revealed, or that he doesn't understand what crimes against the Constitution are.

[randome]

43. He's giving his opinion. That's not a lie. Without specifics, though, it's just an opinion.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[hughee99]

48. It's the opinion of someone who SHOULD know what he's talking about.

If a person pulls up in a car making a funny noise and a painter says "That sounds bad, you shouldn't drive your car anywhere until it's fixed" it's not the same thing as having a mechanic saying the same thing.

It sounds to me like you think he either doesn't know what Snowden revealed or doesn't understand what is and is not constitutional with respect to this issue, but you're trying hard not to come out and actually say that.

[randome]

52. Maybe because I admire the guy for other reasons.

And considering how little I know about my own car, a painter's opinion would carry enough weight with me that I'd get the car looked at.

I'll be up in arms against the NSA, too, if Gore or anyone else can be more specific about what we're supposed to be up in arms about.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[hughee99]

54. No, I'm not sure that you would,

given that you're "go to move" seems to be dismissing their statements rather than calling for more info

I know the DU is somewhat divided on this issue now, but I think once someone figures out a good way to both discuss the issue AND absolve the administration of any responsibly for it, most people will come around.

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. anyone who claims that the NSA has not been committing crimes against the Constitution is being

cynical and disingenuous. Lying and faking claims that people don't know what Al Gore is talking about - belongs in the theater of the absurd.

[randome]

44. 'Crimes against the Constitution' is an easy phrase to roll off the tongue.

The metadata copies have been ruled legal. Spying on foreign citizens has nothing to do with our Constitution.

If 'crimes against the Constitution' are so easily determined, someone needs to specify those crimes.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. check with any human rights organization in the world. This is not a debatable issue

The courts once ruled that slaves were property. IN 1986 the Supreme Court ruled that laws that declared homosexuality between consenting adults were criminal acts were perfectly constitutional. You might be able to argue that it is necessary to commit crimes against the Constitution. But no sane or rational person can claim with a straight face that it is not happening.

[randome]

46. I think I'm sane and rational. But I rarely keep a straight face.

Slavery and bigotry do not in any way rise to the level of the NSA getting copies of phone metadata from telecom companies.

If it's such an egregious afront to our liberty, all we need do is change the law. But what the NSA is doing right now is not unconstitutional. There are few lawmakers, despite the short-lived flurry of speechifying, who think it's that big a deal. And while that, in itself, does not mean we should be complacent, it does indicate, to me anyways, that we have bigger fish to fry.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Douglas Carpenter]

51. I cannot think of any bigger fish to fry than keeping America in the world of liberal western

democracy. The only reason some people here are defending this policy is because they are is driven by narrow and blind partisanship. If there was a Republican President the very same people who are denouncing Snowden or Greenwald would be singing their praises as heroes. It is simply not possible in the long run for a country to remain relatively free and relatively democratic under a state apparatus that knows everything about everyone.

[randome]

56. I'm not defending the NSA. I'm not defending the practice of spying.

I just need something more to go on before I grab a pitchfork and help tear down the castle.

I have no problem at all with scaling back the amount of surveillance the NSA does. But they do serve an important purpose. It's not all about terrorism. It's about international pedophile rings, money laundering, organized crime. We can put more checks and balances on their activities. I'd be in favor of that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Douglas Carpenter]

59. the information on NSA activity is abundant and available and you know that. If you don't' wish

to think about because it is politically inconvenient to raise the issues while there is a Democrat in the White House - that does not change that fact that you do know this information and pretending you do not is simply cynical and disingenuous to the extreme.

[Ash_F]

39. IS there any room left under the bus? /nt

[Coyotl]

50. Meanwhile, the FISA court is packed with Bush's hand-picked cronies.

And the Republicans are blocking Obama judicial selections, weaking the Justice Dept. generally and impeding justice.

[woo me with science]

68. Meanwhile, President Obama publicly defends mass spying on Americans.

Meanwhile, corporate Dems have voted over and over again to enable and allow the spying to continue.

Meanwhile, Dianne Feinstein is pushing disgusting, deceptive legislation that pretends to rein in the NSA but actually legalizes its abuses.

The Third Way apparently can't make up its mind re: the talking points.

Either they agree with the President that the spying is not a problem; it's "only metadata" (derp); Edward Snowden is a dirty, ballerina-abandoning traitor; and the only ones complaining are hair-on-fire Libertarian ratfuckers...

OR....

...The spying might actually be a problem, but IT'S ALL BECAUSE OF REPUBLICANS! Never mind that the President publicly defends the spying and his administration has fought hard in the courts to defend it...Let's pretend that he has nothing to do with it. Heck, let's even throw in an ABSURD suggestion that he is trying to appoint judges to stop it, but those mean Republicans keep obstructing him.....

You can't make this shit up.

[DeSwiss]

64. Crimes Against US Constitution, eh?

- And who's going to arrest whom? Does the law enforcement/security apparatus arrest itself? Qui observat custodes?

K&R

[libodem]

65. Treasonous

Is more like it. Democrats need to become more reactionery in responding to these attacks on our inalienable effing rights. If the table were turned Pukes would scream like mashed cats.

[toby jo]

67. Like it. Thanks, Al.

[struggle4progress]

72. Al should have been President: it would have saved US much grief

[Pterodactyl]

77. If only Obama knew!

[Uncle Joe]

80. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Hissyspit.