Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

hardcover

(255 posts)
Thu Nov 21, 2013, 02:08 PM Nov 2013

Muslim Brotherhood 'stole' Egypt's revolution: Kerry

Source: Washington (AFP)

Washington (AFP) - US Secretary of State John Kerry on Wednesday accused the Muslim Brotherhood of stealing Egypt's revolution, in some of his toughest comments yet about the party that took power in the nation's first democratic election.

In a speech to a forum on enhancing links between private sector businesses and diplomatic security agencies, Kerry said "the best antidote to extremism is opportunity."

"Those kids in Tahrir Square, they were not motivated by any religion or ideology.

"They were motivated by what they saw through this interconnected world, and they wanted a piece of the opportunity and a chance to get an education and have a job and have a future, and not have a corrupt government that deprived them of all of that and more," the top US diplomat said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/muslim-brotherhood-stole-egypts-revolution-kerry-200321098.html?soc_src=mediacontentsharebuttons

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Muslim Brotherhood 'stole' Egypt's revolution: Kerry (Original Post) hardcover Nov 2013 OP
Good for Secretary Kerry get the red out Nov 2013 #1
How do you steal what you won at the ballot box? Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #2
Morsi exempted his rulings from Judicial review - karynnj Nov 2013 #3
A Judiciary hand picked by the Military happyslug Nov 2013 #6
Thank you. People love to say he was usurping the judiciary's powers. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #9
The MB went to rural mostly illerate areas to get votes hardcover Nov 2013 #8
Kerry nailed it. freshwest Nov 2013 #4
Yes, Democracy is best done by coups. happyslug Nov 2013 #7
Sorry to hear Kerry buy into this RW meme. What about the military coup meme? nt kelliekat44 Nov 2013 #5
And US supported military dictators stole their democracy. /nt Ash_F Nov 2013 #10
 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
2. How do you steal what you won at the ballot box?
Thu Nov 21, 2013, 04:56 PM
Nov 2013

If anyone stole anything, it was the military. You know, the guys now (again) running the country.

karynnj

(59,498 posts)
3. Morsi exempted his rulings from Judicial review -
Thu Nov 21, 2013, 05:20 PM
Nov 2013

this is effect gave him dictatorial powers. It is hard to look at this through the lens of the US. Unlike us, they do not have a history of elections changing governments. From their perspective, the way they got rid of Mubarak was taking to the streets - and ultimately having the military at minimum not back Mubarak. Here, there were MORE people in the streets than then - and it was the military put into power.

The US should not have gotten involved in either uprising.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
6. A Judiciary hand picked by the Military
Fri Nov 22, 2013, 12:33 AM
Nov 2013

And refused to accept the fact that the people of Egypt did NOT vote for them. Held a election for Legislators and then struck it down as unconstitutional because the wrong people won. The Court could NOT quite do that for the election of the President, but the courts have REFUSED to rule the Coup Unconstitutional. i.e. it is CONSTITUTIONAL for the Egyptian Army to remove the President in a Coup, but it is NOT constitutional for the President to act under a power granted to the President under the Constitution passed by the voters.

Remember Egypt is a Civil Law Jurisdiction, As a Civil Law Jurisdiction the Legislature is SUPREME not the Courts. The Courts just kept ruling the election to the Legislature was unconstitutional, so Moris then ruled he had to make the Ruling he did for there was NO legislature. AND his orders would be subject to the act passed by the Legislature when it was elected and convented.

A President by the Name Abraham Lincoln did the same in 1861. Lincoln called for Volunteers and military Actions against the South WITHOUT FIRST GETTING THE PERMISSION OF CONGRESS TO DO SO. It was clear such permission was needed but Congress was NOT in session, and something had to be done. Thus Lincoln did what he did in the Spring of 1861, knowing and accepting that if Congress did not later agree, it was an impeachable offense. Congress later approved the Actions of Lincoln.

The same line of logic and law applies to Morsi and his move to ban judicial review of his decision. The Egyptian legislature has the power to give him that power AND remove him if he abused his position. The problem was the Elected members of that Legislature would have SUPPORTED Morsi, like the US Congress supported Lincoln in 1861.

In many ways, your attitude was the attitude of the South in 1861. Lincoln could NOT do anything till Congress came into session. If Lincoln did something before Congress gave him permission, that was illegal and ground for Military actions against him. That the Courts was backing the SOUTH is NOT taught today, but the Taney-Lincoln dispute is similar to what Morsi and the Egyptian Courts were doing. Ruling the actions of Lincoln was illegal for Congress had not authorize them, even through the courts KNEW that the elected Congress WOULD support Lincoln (and why Lincoln ignored the Court rulings against him),

Sooner or later we come to the basis of ALL justification for the use of Force, majority rule. In the case of Morsi he had the support of MOST voters based on the fact he won the most votes in the elections he participated in. No one has produced any evidence or even accused the Moslem Brotherhood of Voting Fraud (the same can NOT be said of the Military supported opposition).

I do NOT like the Moslem Brotherhood, but they won the election fair and square. Elections MUST MEAN SOMETHING, or they are just widow dressing (like elections in the Former Soviet Union, you had the right to vote for the Communist Candidate or no one). As a good Democrat I hated Reagan, but I objected to an "Impeach Reagan" button someone was wearing for while I disliked Reagan, he had won the election and just because I opposed all that Reagan stood for was NOT grounds for his impeachment.

The same for the Moslem Brotherhood, they WON the election, this coup undermines the whole concept of Democracy and if a people do NOT oppose this Coup on that ground alone, such people do NOT believe in Democracy and are dangerous for that reason alone.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
9. Thank you. People love to say he was usurping the judiciary's powers.
Fri Nov 22, 2013, 01:24 PM
Nov 2013

What they fail to mention is that the judiciary was/is a stalwart of the Mubarek regime and was doing everything it could to delegitimize the election winners. One of those judiciary guys is now the puppet president. Funny how that works.

hardcover

(255 posts)
8. The MB went to rural mostly illerate areas to get votes
Fri Nov 22, 2013, 01:13 AM
Nov 2013

The revolution wasn't organized, it was pretty much spontaneous, and enough time wasn't given for any group to organize. The MB was the only group organized enough to run a campaign, and they assured the country that they would not run a candidate for president, and then they did. They went into rural areas of mostly illiterate people and got their votes.
Once they "won" the election, they proceeded to rule undemocratically. They think that being democratically elected gave them the right to to throw out democracy.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
7. Yes, Democracy is best done by coups.
Fri Nov 22, 2013, 12:35 AM
Nov 2013

Who care about elections, coups are how democracies pick their leaders.

That is Sarcasm, for to support this coup is to say election are meaningless, and Kerry's statement is a statement that elections are meaningless.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Muslim Brotherhood 'stole...