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jsr

(7,712 posts)
Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:06 PM Nov 2013

Texas frees day care operator convicted of abusing children with satanic rituals

Source: Reuters

AUSTIN, Texas - Texas has released a woman who spent 21 years in jail on charges of sexually abusing children in satanic rituals at her day care facility, saying expert medical testimony that helped convict her was wrong.

Frances Keller, 63, was released on bond late Tuesday night and her husband, Dan Keller, who was convicted at the same time, will be released within a week in a deal reached with lawyers for the two, the Travis County district attorney's office said.

"There is a reasonable likelihood that (the medical expert's) false testimony affected the judgment of the jury and violated Frances Keller's right to a fair trial," Rosemary Lehmberg, the district attorney for Travis County, which is located in central Texas and includes the city of Austin, said in a statement.

The release comes on the heels of a similar move in San Antonio where prosecutors agreed this month to release three lesbian women imprisoned since 1998 on sexual assault convictions that critics say were based on junk science and false views on sexual orientation.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-frees-daycare-operator-convicted-of-abusing-children-with-satanic-rituals/

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Texas frees day care operator convicted of abusing children with satanic rituals (Original Post) jsr Nov 2013 OP
Those satanic allegations are almost always false BainsBane Nov 2013 #1
I remember that well. The prosecutors should all be in jail 7962 Nov 2013 #4
Yep, and Geraldo fanned the flames of that "satanic panic" crap too. Jamastiene Nov 2013 #7
I remember that crap 8 track mind Nov 2013 #9
Oh yes! That insanity. shenmue Nov 2013 #52
sue them until it hurts , until you own the city hall weissmam Nov 2013 #2
Wow, JimboBillyBubbaBob Nov 2013 #3
Excellent article here about this hysteria. Archae Nov 2013 #5
NO NO NO SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #29
There really hasn't been any evidence of "child abuse through satanic rituals." It was an urban Dash87 Nov 2013 #37
I am happy that you know everything SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #42
Sure. Buy S&P until 2015. That's when the world-, well let's just say don't make any long term plans Dash87 Nov 2013 #43
Good news and more links alp227 Nov 2013 #6
The appeals court decision in the second link doesn't look good for women's rights. alfredo Nov 2013 #8
ack! wrong link - I was looking for this story on the Austin American-Statesman site alp227 Nov 2013 #10
Sounds like a senior moment. ;) alfredo Nov 2013 #12
I was always skeptical about those stories Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2013 #11
You can see it happening because it does happen jmowreader Nov 2013 #16
Or the horrific Dale Akiki case mainer Nov 2013 #39
The problem is the misguided belief that children never lie jmowreader Nov 2013 #53
Young children today are spared from being discredited as witnesses, as in this case. proverbialwisdom Nov 2013 #13
This is one part of the story ... SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #27
Rather than copy and paste the same reply multiple times in one thread... TroglodyteScholar Nov 2013 #36
That decreases the "PAY ATTENTION TO ME" volume, though Posteritatis Nov 2013 #51
It's a lame tactic. TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #54
I have an old friend who was a victim of bad therapists back when this was going on Marrah_G Nov 2013 #14
That is horrible! Imagine how many children were victimized in this way over the course Chemisse Nov 2013 #19
Exactly the same as the Salem witch hunts. Kablooie Nov 2013 #15
This has nothing to do with the witch hunts SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #30
I'm not alleging that child abuse doesn't exist or shouldn't be prosecuted. Kablooie Nov 2013 #35
A lot of them used hypnosis to bring out "suppressed" memories. Rozlee Nov 2013 #17
This is what I love the most about DU. SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #18
There are links to information posted on this thread. ronnie624 Nov 2013 #20
It is so sad that so many people have no clue. SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #21
Are you under the impression that I'm a proponent of "false memory syndrome"? ronnie624 Nov 2013 #22
You confirm my thoughts. SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #23
You should expand more on your thoughts. ronnie624 Nov 2013 #26
HERE YOU GO SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #28
I think I understand now. ronnie624 Nov 2013 #31
no I am not SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #32
Post some links to credible sources. n/t ronnie624 Nov 2013 #33
I am sorry that your google is broken SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #34
Your conspiracy theory is convoluted muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #44
you put a lot of words in my mouth SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #45
Since you repeat the 'conspiracy' claim' 4 times, and tell others to go to Google, muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #46
There are many people very happy that you fight their fight SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2013 #49
bwahahahahaha. cali Dec 2013 #58
bwahahahahaha? SoLeftIAmRight Dec 2013 #60
unpaid? No way dude! We get our checks...like 50 does! snooper2 Dec 2013 #64
If you think lame cut and paste crap will convince DUers, try again. cali Dec 2013 #55
Lame cut and paste? SoLeftIAmRight Dec 2013 #56
bwahahahahaha. I do so love your rank hypocricy, lambkins. cali Dec 2013 #57
Again - the insults SoLeftIAmRight Dec 2013 #59
Have you paid your dues yet? snooper2 Dec 2013 #65
You have it backwards. SLIAR is claiming that the memories are true, tblue37 Dec 2013 #61
I gathered that, later. ronnie624 Dec 2013 #62
No, you are not thick. The phrasing of his/her post was "thick," in the sense of being tblue37 Dec 2013 #63
LOL. People around here drinking the SRA kool-aid? That's a new one. (nt) Posteritatis Nov 2013 #24
Hi SoLeftIAmRight!!!! I just wanna say that I want you to contact me directly.... NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #25
self delete They_Live Nov 2013 #41
In virtually every one of these cases, media coverage was 100% against the accused. Dash87 Nov 2013 #38
A look back at the terrible Dale Akiki case mainer Nov 2013 #40
Thank you for that cpwm17 Nov 2013 #48
Holy Shit! FiveGoodMen Dec 2013 #66
Damn fundies and their weird Satan fixation. cemaphonic Dec 2013 #67
What took them so long? cpwm17 Nov 2013 #47
Politics, basically Posteritatis Nov 2013 #50

BainsBane

(57,750 posts)
1. Those satanic allegations are almost always false
Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:08 PM
Nov 2013

There was a spate of them in the 80s or 90s, all manufactured.

Jamastiene

(38,206 posts)
7. Yep, and Geraldo fanned the flames of that "satanic panic" crap too.
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:02 AM
Nov 2013

He was actually one of the worst ones to sensationalize that crap. Most of it turned out to be bogus.

8 track mind

(1,638 posts)
9. I remember that crap
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:24 AM
Nov 2013

I watched it on the old school C-Band satellite dish. I remember the interview with Ozzy Osbourne and how Hernandez Revolver (cheech and chong reference) was a total prick to him

shenmue

(38,597 posts)
52. Oh yes! That insanity.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 05:41 PM
Nov 2013

Remember when people used to care about facts?

Funny how when all these rituals supposedly happened, no one would see or hear anything and there would be no physical evidence.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
29. NO NO NO
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:21 AM
Nov 2013

This is not directed to just you. Please read this with that understanding.


I worked for six years in the largest psychiatric forensic unit in the world. I worked closely with the psychiatrist and the clinical psychologist. I have reviewed many notorious cases.

Have you ever heard the term "death tax"? Do you understand how language is used to manipulate?

Where do you think the term SRA comes from? The “S” is the yeti. Add the devil to the picture so that the story can be discounted. Paint her the whore and the rape does not occur.

Are you this type person? This is who you are acting like.

When children say Micky Mouse or the Devil touched them down there it is easy to discount. A touch of the right drugs and a cheap costume and a child's memories are forever tainted.

Do you think there are people that might do such a thing?

Having worked in a jial with over 10,000 inmates, I can tell you that many very evil people come in those doors.

Below is the derisive comment, "SRA kool-aid". This shows how stupid people can be in such matters. Do you know that more than 900 people drank the kool-aid? Was this just a normal day in your world? I hope not. Can you give a brief outline of the psychological dynamics that were in play?

There are many things you do not understand and many things you do not know.

Abuse is passed down from parent to child like a virus. Many times the pattern is broken. With stylized abuse there is a component of purpose. Trying to break this chain causes great forces to be set in motion.

I know that several major universities received large grants to produce studies that would support the “false memory syndrome” explanation of the reports of stylized abuse. I know two people, one a co-worker, that were recruited from the forensic unit to become “experts” in these matters. One was given a free ride through the doctoral program. The other, who already had his doctorate, was groomed to become a paid “legal expert” at trials and in other forums.

There exist a conspiracy to hid this practice. Lots of money has been spent to assure that anyone that tries to bring this perversion to light can be easily discounted.

Ritual abuse exist. Ritual abuse is used in different ways for different reasons. Please do not support the suppression of people that are trying to expose a sad and dangerous practice.

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
37. There really hasn't been any evidence of "child abuse through satanic rituals." It was an urban
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:02 AM
Nov 2013

legend that gained legs, mostly due to the media, into a moral panic. SRA (Satanic Ritualistic Abuse) allegations began when a few hack psychiatrists coached kids into remembering that they were supposedly sexually abused through Satanic rituals. None of it ever actually happened, as proven through police investigations.

The moral panic happened because fundies teamed up with idiots in the media to spread the false story around. Suddenly, hundreds of kids had been abused! It was happening everywhere! The truth was, the method by which these psychiatrists pulled these 'memories' out from the kids was simple leading.

This was a modern day Salem Witch Trials, but just without anyone dead by it. It had the same baseless, silly hysteria. If anything, it shows how easily people can be duped and how easily they'll buy into the hearsay of others, no matter how ridiculous.

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
43. Sure. Buy S&P until 2015. That's when the world-, well let's just say don't make any long term plans
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:03 PM
Nov 2013

alp227

(33,271 posts)
10. ack! wrong link - I was looking for this story on the Austin American-Statesman site
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 01:12 AM
Nov 2013

the abortion story was above the Keller story

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,223 posts)
11. I was always skeptical about those stories
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 01:28 AM
Nov 2013

I couldn't help remembering an old Art Linkletter Show (he always interviewed four children between the ages of 3 and 10 at the end of his show).

One day just before Thanksgiving, he was interviewing some five-year-olds about cooking a turkey dinner. First he asked the kids how they would kill the turkey.

They came up with imaginatively and gleefully gruesome methods, despite looking like little angels.

Now consider an interviewer who really wants to condemn an accused "Satanist." He asks the pre-school children, "What kinds of bad things did Mrs. X do?" If a child gives an imaginative response, he encourages a more elaborate fantasy. I can see it happening.

There was one kid who claimed that the teacher had roasted babies in a microwave every day. If that was true, there should have been a lot of missing babies and one very messy microwave. But no seems to have been operating on logic in those cases.

As far as I recall, none of the children who claimed sexual abuse were ever examined for proof.

jmowreader

(53,162 posts)
16. You can see it happening because it does happen
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 06:18 AM
Nov 2013

The McMartin Preschool case was a famous one...investigators convinced children to say all sorts of weird shit. At trial, one kid was shown a group of photos and asked to identify his abuser, and claimed with absolute certainty that he was abused by Chuck Norris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

The Little Rascals Day Care in North Carolina was another good one: among the allegations were that babies had been murdered and children were forced to swim in schools of sharks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rascals_day_care_sexual_abuse_trial

In both cases, satanic abuse was alleged and in both cases it was disproved.

mainer

(12,548 posts)
39. Or the horrific Dale Akiki case
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:24 AM
Nov 2013

The poor man served nearly 3 years in jail after he was accused by children of slaughtering a giraffe and elephant and drinking blood in their church daycare. This was while the parents were in the building DURING CHURCH SERVICES! In that short 1-2 hour span of time, Akiki supposdly abducted children and drove them elsewhere, even though he couldn't drive. A large part of the problem was that Mr. Akiki was odd-looking due to a genetic disorder, and we all know that those who don't look like us must be evil.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Chapel_Church_ritual_abuse_case

jmowreader

(53,162 posts)
53. The problem is the misguided belief that children never lie
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 07:09 PM
Nov 2013

Reality: children lie like rugs if it's in their best interest. Bil Keane even had a character to symbolize it in Family Circus...remember the little ghost with Not Me written on it?

What happens in a lot of these cases is kids are coerced and cajoled into lying the way the prosecution wants.

I read the results of a study once. They hired an actor, flew him to a city on the other side of the country, and had him sit on a stool in the corner of the classroom for half an hour. He just sat there. Then they sent the child abuse investigators in...by the time they were done, this guy had raped every kid in class, performed satanic rituals at his home, and killed and ate a classmate who was still in their classroom.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
13. Young children today are spared from being discredited as witnesses, as in this case.
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 02:07 AM
Nov 2013
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/15/netherlands.child.abuse.case/

Authorities arrest suspect in Dutch child abuse case
By the CNN Wire Staff
December 15, 2010 1:35 a.m. EST

* Officials identify the suspect as "Robert M," a substitute preschool teacher
* He is arrested in Amsterdam on suspicion of molesting up to 50 children
* Interpol: Child pornography can only be produced through the sexual abuse of children

(CNN) -- A substitute preschool teacher suspected of molesting up to 50 children has been arrested in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, the international police organization Interpol said.

Dutch prosecution officials have said the 27-year-old man, known as "Robert M," confessed to abusing dozens of children and had images of child sexual abuse at his home, according to a statement Monday from Interpol.

An investigation started after the image of a young boy was identified by his family following its broadcast on Dutch television on December 7 at the request of Dutch national police, Interpol said.

<>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021072012
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183859/How-toy-bunny-helped-uncover-vast-child-porn-network-spanning-continents.html

PAGE NOT FOUND
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/vast-international-child-porn-network-uncovered-a-stuffed-toy-helped-crack-the-case-open/2012/08/04/276f8ec4-de40-11e1-8ad1-909913931f71_story.html
http://feeds.abcnews.com/click.phdo?i=fa1f7b8965e2dffeaabdd13ffcb8b5f1
http://www.startribune.com/nation/164997266.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue
 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
27. This is one part of the story ...
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:19 AM
Nov 2013

This is not directed to just you. Please read this with that understanding.


I worked for six years in the largest psychiatric forensic unit in the world. I worked closely with the psychiatrist and the clinical psychologist. I have reviewed many notorious cases.

Have you ever heard the term "death tax"? Do you understand how language is used to manipulate?

Where do you think the term SRA comes from? The “S” is the yeti. Add the devil to the picture so that the story can be discounted. Paint her the whore and the rape does not occur.

Are you this type person? This is who you are acting like.

When children say Micky Mouse or the Devil touched them down there it is easy to discount. A touch of the right drugs and a cheap costume and a child's memories are forever tainted.

Do you think there are people that might do such a thing?

Having worked in a jial with over 10,000 inmates, I can tell you that many very evil people come in those doors.

Below is the derisive comment, "SRA kool-aid". This shows how stupid people can be in such matters. Do you know that more than 900 people drank the kool-aid? Was this just a normal day in your world? I hope not. Can you give a brief outline of the psychological dynamics that were in play?

There are many things you do not understand and many things you do not know.

Abuse is passed down from parent to child like a virus. Many times the pattern is broken. With stylized abuse there is a component of purpose. Trying to break this chain causes great forces to be set in motion.

I know that several major universities received large grants to produce studies that would support the “false memory syndrome” explanation of the reports of stylized abuse. I know two people, one a co-worker, that were recruited from the forensic unit to become “experts” in these matters. One was given a free ride through the doctoral program. The other, who already had his doctorate, was groomed to become a paid “legal expert” at trials and in other forums.

There exist a conspiracy to hid this practice. Lots of money has been spent to assure that anyone that tries to bring this perversion to light can be easily discounted.

Ritual abuse exist. Ritual abuse is used in different ways for different reasons. Please do not support the suppression of people that are trying to expose a sad and dangerous practice.

TroglodyteScholar

(5,477 posts)
36. Rather than copy and paste the same reply multiple times in one thread...
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:03 AM
Nov 2013

...might be better to just post the reply once and them refer people to the one reply.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
51. That decreases the "PAY ATTENTION TO ME" volume, though
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:52 PM
Nov 2013

The copy-paste approach (plus the modified, less jury-safe version he's PMing) is a good way to hijack every subthread attached to the post, which is usually why people do that.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
14. I have an old friend who was a victim of bad therapists back when this was going on
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 02:55 AM
Nov 2013

She was convinced by an over-zealous shrink that she was a victim of satanic abuse by her parents. It destroyed her family and caused her huge amounts of guilt and pain.

Chemisse

(31,338 posts)
19. That is horrible! Imagine how many children were victimized in this way over the course
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 07:35 PM
Nov 2013

of this hysteria.

That shrink should be sued.

Kablooie

(19,103 posts)
15. Exactly the same as the Salem witch hunts.
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 05:36 AM
Nov 2013

It's seems to be a flaw built into humanity that gets inflamed every once in a while.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
30. This has nothing to do with the witch hunts
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:27 AM
Nov 2013

This is not directed to just you. Please read this with that understanding.


I worked for six years in the largest psychiatric forensic unit in the world. I worked closely with the psychiatrist and the clinical psychologist. I have reviewed many notorious cases.

Have you ever heard the term "death tax"? Do you understand how language is used to manipulate?

Where do you think the term SRA comes from? The “S” is the yeti. Add the devil to the picture so that the story can be discounted. Paint her the whore and the rape does not occur.

Are you this type person? This is who you are acting like.

When children say Micky Mouse or the Devil touched them down there it is easy to discount. A touch of the right drugs and a cheap costume and a child's memories are forever tainted.

Do you think there are people that might do such a thing?

Having worked in a jial with over 10,000 inmates, I can tell you that many very evil people come in those doors.

Below is the derisive comment, "SRA kool-aid". This shows how stupid people can be in such matters. Do you know that more than 900 people drank the kool-aid? Was this just a normal day in your world? I hope not. Can you give a brief outline of the psychological dynamics that were in play?

There are many things you do not understand and many things you do not know.

Abuse is passed down from parent to child like a virus. Many times the pattern is broken. With stylized abuse there is a component of purpose. Trying to break this chain causes great forces to be set in motion.

I know that several major universities received large grants to produce studies that would support the “false memory syndrome” explanation of the reports of stylized abuse. I know two people, one a co-worker, that were recruited from the forensic unit to become “experts” in these matters. One was given a free ride through the doctoral program. The other, who already had his doctorate, was groomed to become a paid “legal expert” at trials and in other forums.

There exist a conspiracy to hid this practice. Lots of money has been spent to assure that anyone that tries to bring this perversion to light can be easily discounted.

Ritual abuse exist. Ritual abuse is used in different ways for different reasons. Please do not support the suppression of people that are trying to expose a sad and dangerous practice.

Kablooie

(19,103 posts)
35. I'm not alleging that child abuse doesn't exist or shouldn't be prosecuted.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:22 AM
Nov 2013

If child abuse occurred the evidence should be sought and the perpetrators caught and punished.

But I do believe that satanic ritual child abuse is pretty much a fantasy and when that kind of inflammatory rhetoric is used it can incite a frenzy of accusations where there is no basis in reality or evidence.
Persistent abuse may be a factor but ritual abuse, meaning a formalized abuse for purposes other than sexual gratification, I do not believe occurs.

In general I believe that it is worse to imprison an innocent person than to allow a criminal to remain free.
The innocent person's life can be ruined forever if he is found guilty of a crime he did not commit while a criminal who remains free may still be caught at a later date.

A complicating factor in these cases is also the child's welfare of course.
If the pedophile remains free he can continue to perform illegal acts but to me still the ruined life of an innocent person outweighs the potential harm.

So overall I believe the accusation and verdict should come from verifiable evidence and not from some vague feeling that someone should be guilty because of a general mood of the public.
Legal standards should not be lowered simply because the crime is particularly repulsive.


Rozlee

(2,529 posts)
17. A lot of them used hypnosis to bring out "suppressed" memories.
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:58 PM
Nov 2013

And hypnosis can be used to add suggestions or to outright confabulate, such as with past life regressions and tales of alien abductions.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
18. This is what I love the most about DU.
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 04:11 PM
Nov 2013

People boldly talking about things they know nothing about.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
20. There are links to information posted on this thread.
Fri Nov 29, 2013, 11:56 AM
Nov 2013

Anyone who has read it knows more than "nothing" about the topic.

What an interesting attitude to bring to a website specifically designed to discuss current events and important issues.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
21. It is so sad that so many people have no clue.
Fri Nov 29, 2013, 02:23 PM
Nov 2013

The fields of Psychology and Sociology are in many Universities directed by big money. Less than one million dollars in grants, directed towards one institution, can fund several doctoral candidates. In a short time the term false memory syndrome is coined. New experts are publishing books. And expert witnesses are ready for hire. Almost any point of view wanted can be bought for a very small price.

Read all of that purchased literature you desire.

Do you believe all the works published by the Right Wing Think Tanks?

Get a clue.

The system is rigged at all levels. MY God will people ever wake up.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
22. Are you under the impression that I'm a proponent of "false memory syndrome"?
Fri Nov 29, 2013, 02:37 PM
Nov 2013

How bizarre.

Your post is nothing but gibberish, scarcely worthy of consideration.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
26. You should expand more on your thoughts.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:13 AM
Nov 2013

This is the place for it. How else will you explain the world to the clueless liberals on DU?

Why do you believe that DUers are proponents of "false memory syndrome", when virtually all of the posters on this thread have expressed skepticism about such claptrap?

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
28. HERE YOU GO
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:20 AM
Nov 2013

This is not directed to just you. Please read this with that understanding.


I worked for six years in the largest psychiatric forensic unit in the world. I worked closely with the psychiatrist and the clinical psychologist. I have reviewed many notorious cases.

Have you ever heard the term "death tax"? Do you understand how language is used to manipulate?

Where do you think the term SRA comes from? The “S” is the yeti. Add the devil to the picture so that the story can be discounted. Paint her the whore and the rape does not occur.

Are you this type person? This is who you are acting like.

When children say Micky Mouse or the Devil touched them down there it is easy to discount. A touch of the right drugs and a cheap costume and a child's memories are forever tainted.

Do you think there are people that might do such a thing?

Having worked in a jial with over 10,000 inmates, I can tell you that many very evil people come in those doors.

Below is the derisive comment, "SRA kool-aid". This shows how stupid people can be in such matters. Do you know that more than 900 people drank the kool-aid? Was this just a normal day in your world? I hope not. Can you give a brief outline of the psychological dynamics that were in play?

There are many things you do not understand and many things you do not know.

Abuse is passed down from parent to child like a virus. Many times the pattern is broken. With stylized abuse there is a component of purpose. Trying to break this chain causes great forces to be set in motion.

I know that several major universities received large grants to produce studies that would support the “false memory syndrome” explanation of the reports of stylized abuse. I know two people, one a co-worker, that were recruited from the forensic unit to become “experts” in these matters. One was given a free ride through the doctoral program. The other, who already had his doctorate, was groomed to become a paid “legal expert” at trials and in other forums.

There exist a conspiracy to hid this practice. Lots of money has been spent to assure that anyone that tries to bring this perversion to light can be easily discounted.

Ritual abuse exist. Ritual abuse is used in different ways for different reasons. Please do not support the suppression of people that are trying to expose a sad and dangerous practice.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
31. I think I understand now.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:38 AM
Nov 2013
You are the proponent of "false memory syndrome".

I didn't mean to upset you.

See ya.
 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
32. no I am not
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:46 AM
Nov 2013

The FMS is what deniers of ritual abuse use to discredit mental health professionals.

I believe that there are people that engage in a system of stylized abuse. Sometimes for sexual purposes and sometimes for even more nefarious purposes.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
34. I am sorry that your google is broken
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:11 AM
Nov 2013

I have told you my personal observations. Good luck to you. Believe that there is no child abuse if you like. I care not.

All I ask is that you do not join blindly to the group that wants to muddy the water.

muriel_volestrangler

(106,132 posts)
44. Your conspiracy theory is convoluted
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:20 PM
Nov 2013

What you claim is:

People abuse children
They pretend to be doing this as a 'satanic ritual'
This causes a huge furore in the media, kept going by fundamentalist Christians, who see this as a great money-raising cause
This causes many people to be thrown in jail as 'satanic abusers'
Gradually, people realise the talk of 'satanic abuse' doesn't make sense
The children are shown to have been coached
The people are let out of jail
This then, according to you, allows them to have got away with it (apart from the spell in jail), because the abuse, you say, did happen, but you say that people have only rejected it now because the idea of someone dressing up as the devil to do it is so ridiculous that they now reject the true evidence of abuse along with the "they really are satanists" bit.

So you are saying they pretended to be satanists to get big publicity for the abuse, spend a period in prison, and then get released. This does not make much sense. You won't convince anyone by saying 'look it up on Google', that's for sure.

muriel_volestrangler

(106,132 posts)
46. Since you repeat the 'conspiracy' claim' 4 times, and tell others to go to Google,
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:07 PM
Nov 2013

rather than explain who the people are you're accusing of being paid to cover us abuse, we've got to interpret your claims as best as we can. You now just refuse to speak, rather than explain anything.

We're better off without your claims of huge cover-ups paid for by shadowy figures. I hope you won't waste our time with them again. Bye.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
49. There are many people very happy that you fight their fight
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:24 PM
Nov 2013

Time and money well spent they will say. Enjoy being an unpaid mercenary.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
60. bwahahahahaha?
Mon Dec 2, 2013, 12:24 PM
Dec 2013

The essence of genius radiates with your every utterance.

I bow down to your wisdom.

Please, Please, Please, tell me o' wise one, tell me one thing that you know.

One thing. Do you know anything?

What do you know?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
55. If you think lame cut and paste crap will convince DUers, try again.
Mon Dec 2, 2013, 08:39 AM
Dec 2013

And I note that YOU don't provide a scrap of evidence for your claims. Nothing. and the question isn't does ritual abuse exist but has it ever been as widespread as some of these demonstrably false cases led people to believe.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
56. Lame cut and paste?
Mon Dec 2, 2013, 11:55 AM
Dec 2013

Are you the dick tator of conversations? Sounds like it. You come on rather strongly for someone who has little to add to the thread other than insults. You are exactly what is wrong with the DU. For a dozen years I have watched your type sling shit for no reason.

If you would pull your head out of your ass, wash up a little and ask nicely, I would offer you what you would like.

As far as the "scrap of evidence" comment goes, you reveal that you have a very weak mind.

If you can not briefly discuss what constitutes evidence in a psychiatric forensic hearing you should take a close look at you psychological issues.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
57. bwahahahahaha. I do so love your rank hypocricy, lambkins.
Mon Dec 2, 2013, 12:10 PM
Dec 2013

I'm not the one tossing out insults. That would be you.

Your exceedingly thin skin indicates that you are in need of mental health help your own little self.

Kisses,

hugs



You haven't demonstrated that you can discuss what constitutes forensic evidence. You are remarkably full of it.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
59. Again - the insults
Mon Dec 2, 2013, 12:16 PM
Dec 2013

With nothing to add.

You have shown that you are worth nothing here.

tblue37

(68,421 posts)
61. You have it backwards. SLIAR is claiming that the memories are true,
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 12:46 PM
Dec 2013

and that those who call them false are wrong.

Apparently he or she believes that all those supposed satanic rituals really did occur and that all those memories were actually true.

Wow.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
62. I gathered that, later.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 02:11 PM
Dec 2013

At first, the poster's ambiguous language led me to think he/she was promoting a stereotype of a clueless liberal who believes in the 'false memory' crap.

Sometimes I'm a little thick.

tblue37

(68,421 posts)
63. No, you are not thick. The phrasing of his/her post was "thick," in the sense of being
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 02:50 PM
Dec 2013

virtually impenetrable.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
25. Hi SoLeftIAmRight!!!! I just wanna say that I want you to contact me directly....
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:19 AM
Nov 2013

...let's talk more about your concerns. Please send me a personal message, don't reply publicly, you know how people here can be.

Loveya!

Call me!

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
38. In virtually every one of these cases, media coverage was 100% against the accused.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:09 AM
Nov 2013

In all cases, it was stated that there was undeniable proof that sexual abuse was occurring in day cares across the country. Not one element in the media argued against the hysteria. Hearsay and rumors were reported as undeniable fact. In later years, all of it was proven to be the work of discredited psychology practices, urban legends, or perjury.

Sound familiar?

mainer

(12,548 posts)
40. A look back at the terrible Dale Akiki case
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:30 AM
Nov 2013

and how prosecutors were later forced to deal with the consequences of their actions. At least there was, in the end, justice. And a good man survived his ordeal.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/May/09/dale-akiki-reflects-historic-molestation-trial/?#article-copy

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
48. Thank you for that
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:34 PM
Nov 2013

I think that was the church I was forced to visit one Sunday in the late 1970's. It creeped me out.

My mother mentioned there was such a case in San Diego. I didn't know the story. I see that it was so much like the McMartin Preschool child abuse hoax:

cemaphonic

(4,138 posts)
67. Damn fundies and their weird Satan fixation.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 07:36 PM
Dec 2013

I was a kid in the 80s and I had a friend with a fundie mom who was constantly feeding him stories about the evils of Dungeons and Dragons sourcebooks (Did you know that they are completely impervious to fire!) I thought that she was weird and gullible, but it wasn't until I was in college (and the Wenatchee case started turning up in the media) that I realized that there were a large and powerful group of people in this country that literally believed that the devil and his agents were everywere, and were prepared to ruin lives and reputations to combat his influence.

Like the Akiki case, in Wenatchee, justice eventually prevailed, but not before completely fucking up dozens of lives, and turning the whole town into a pit of paranoia and suspicion that you normally only see in the more heavy-handed Twilight Zone episodes.

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
47. What took them so long?
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:13 PM
Nov 2013

These cases have been proven to be complete bunk for decades. It started back in the 1980's with the McMartin Preschool child abuse scandal and hoax where adults coerced from kids hundreds of accusation against the preschool workers.

It turned into of one of the longest and most expensive trials in American history - HBO Movie: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11355858

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
50. Politics, basically
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:47 PM
Nov 2013

Cherrypicked juries, judges elected on a never-let-anyone-walk-ever platform, etc.

Nobody wants to go to the voters as The Guy Who Let The Satanic Abuser Walk Free, Nevermind That He Didn't Do It In The First Place(tm), since that'd be political suicide in a state that tends to that kind of religious backwardness in the first place.

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