Diplomat's arrest: US distances itself from Preet Bharara's comments; India wants apology, case drop

[cosmicone]

Source: Times of India

NEW DELHI: The American "regret", conveyed on Wednesday night by US secretary of state John Kerry, has left India unimpressed. New Delhi on Thursday clarified that it has two demands - that the case against Khobragade be dropped and that the US tender an apology for the diplomat's humiliation.

This nudged Washington to follow up Kerry's call with more overtures. Late on Thursday evening, US under secretary of state for political affairs Wendy Sherman called up foreign secretary Sujatha Singh to convey that the US government does not share US attorney Preet Bharara's views on this case. She also offered a consular dialogue between India and US to resolve the problems of domestic staff and immunity issues.

<SNIP>

Indians point to two instances. In the first, Raymond Davis, a CIA contractor in Lahore who had been arrested for murder was declared to have full diplomatic immunity by no less than US president Barack Obama. Lahore is a consular post, and by US law Davis was not eligible for immunity.

The second is a more recent case. A group of Russian diplomats targeted by Preet Bharara's office for social security fraud were not arrested at the last minute, because the State Department stepped in and told Bharara's office that all of them enjoyed full diplomatic immunity, even though many of the diplomats were nowhere as senior as Khobragade.
</SNIP>

Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Diplomats-arrest-US-distances-itself-from-Preet-Bhararas-comments-India-wants-apology-case-dropped/articleshow/27666819.cms

---

This under the backdrop of FULL IMMUNITY to Pakistani Terrorist in Chief Shuja Pasha (Director of ISI) who has been named as a terrorist in a NY Federal case.

[closeupready]

1. Biased source. Please find a real link.

Thanks.

[cosmicone]

4. Times of India is the world's largest circulation English paper

and is giving the story as they have it from the Indian government.

[mike_c]

38. since when is TOI an unreliable source?

If you mean to suggest that it's unreliable simply because it's in India, one party to this dispute, then do you likewise claim that all U.S. news sources are likewise unreliable about this issue?

[JI7]

2. this is starting to remind me of those defending Duck Dynasty

it's not ok to pay someone slave wages . it's not ok to lie on application to bring them here.

[closeupready]

3. But wait! Purple heart band-aids! Pakistani terrorism!

Freedom of Speech!! Dammit!

[JI7]

7. the OP claimed in another thread that the nanny being paid slave wages

was actually a CIA agent .

[closeupready]

8. Oopphh, teehee! That's a rather interesting use of an old saw.

[cosmicone]

6. What do Americans pay to their household help in India?

It was a fair question yet unanswered.

If Americans are so keen on minimum wage, they should offer it to all their staff around the world.

Right now, it is "Do as we say, not as we do" -- i.e. hypocrisy

[JI7]

9. so you think it should be ok to pay indian citizens working in the US

less than minimum ?

[cosmicone]

12. It has not even been established if the maid was paid less than minimum

SHE claims she got less in order to get a quick immigration visa for her and her family.

[smitra]

43. The maid was an Indian citizen, working for a representative of the Indian government...

... and living in the house of an Indian diplomat. I am not sure ...embassies and consulates are considered to be the 'territory' of the country they represent, does that apply to the homes of the diplomats too? If so, she was working on Indian soil as well. She was paid Rs. 30,000/- per month (a large sum for India), plus she had full medical coverage, and her trips back home were paid for by the Govt. of India as long as she was in the US. Presumably, she also lived in the diplomat's home.

Despite the desperately anti-Indian posters on these threads, and responding to your posts ... most without any substance and over-excessive use of derision and mockery ... it is clear that the US authorities over-reached themselves in this case. Secretary Kerry has expressed regret, as you note, and the Indian government has been firm in standing up its employee's rights, as per the Vienna Convention.

I shall be posting some stuff from here: http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/12/18/diplomatic-abuse-of-servants-not-just-for-indians/

Look up the horrific tales about the behavior of American diplomats, and the connivance of the State Department in letting them get away with it. That should give pause to the posters who seem to be in the "Oh-I-am-American-and-therefore-so-much-better-than-you-Indians" mold. But I seriously doubt that will happen, and the totally ridiculous comments will continue.

[JI7]

51. then why did she lie about it on the application, no it's not ok to pay someone slave wages

[okaawhatever]

112. The BBC said there were two contracts. One to meet the Vienna Conv/US requirements and the real one

for $573 per month so the fraud probably isn't in question.

[okaawhatever]

114. I will answer it and it is not a fair question. The answer to both what the US consuls pay their

staff and what the Indian consuls pay their staff is the same. What the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations states is the required minimum or an amount in excess of that. A fair question would be is the US deputy consul general in India paying what is required, and if not did they lie about it on the visa application? If so then India can and should take the same steps as the US did. Of course, this is the third case of alleged mistreatment by an Indian diplomat in three years in New York. The most recent: 2012, another Indian consular officer, Neena Malhotra, was fined by a New York City Magistrate Judge for the use of and barbaric treatment of underaged labour at her residence.
It is not as if they were unaware that this sort of thing would be investigated. The state department asked the Indian embassy to look into Ms. Richard's claims in September. They responded with an arrest warrant for Ms. Richards. It was shortly after the state department received the arrest warrant for Ms. Richards that they prosecuted Ms. Khobragade.
India's claim that Ms. Khobragade has diplomatic immunity (which she doesn't it's consular immunity which is limited to work related offenses), is laughable given the supreme court ruling against the Italian Ambassador (who has full immunity) stating he didn't have immunity for contempt of court.
My biggest problem is with the way this is being presented by the media in India. She isn't being charged for failing to pay her worker. She's being charged with visa fraud and making a false statement. Some claim that she shouldn't have been arrested and searched because it was "white collar" while the rules for white collar vs other criminal offenses may be different in India here they aren't. The booking process is the same. Also, the charges are felonies and carry up to 15 years, that's pretty serious stuff. Much of the protesting I've seen in the press has been over this horrible treatment for her not paying her maid. Not paying her maid is a civil matter and wouldn't require the arrest and booking. It's the visa fraud and making a false statement. India should be embarrassed that right after the Malhotra situation they send over another consul general who not only doesn't pay the minimum wage, knows she won't and lies about it from the very beginning. Does she think we are a joke? Does she think our laws don't apply to her? Does she think she can write what ever she wants on the visa application and we don't have the right to question it? She's a representative of the Indian government, she should be ashamed for lying and putting her dishonesty on display for the world to see. Even if the United States didn't have rules regarding her workers, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations does. It's not just our rules she's violating. Why isn't the press in India saying that the reason she has to pay minimum wage is because of an agreement your government made? They want to claim immunity based on the very same agreement that she defied. Which is it? Does she get to pick and choose which parts of the VCCR that she likes and ignore the rest?
I hope it all gets sorted out without too much trouble for everyone and I'm sure there's more to this than most of us know, but I'd like to see a focus on the issues. That she isn't required to pay her 4,000 per month, that the charge is not paying minimum wage per Vienna agrmt and US minimum wage laws, that the legal charges are two felonies, and that the Indian government was asked to respond to this in September. Yes she was strip searched and arrested but that wasn't treating her worse than other wealthy high profile people. Should we have made a different arrest arrangement? I think so, but since this was on the table for a couple of months I have to wonder if there was a reason for it.

[JustAnotherGen]

126. This - Visa Fraud

She's being charged with visa fraud and making a false statement.

Thank you for stating that again. That's what I understood as well.

[treestar]

116. Any links to cases violating the law of India?

This person is here, she follows our laws.

If India doesn't have a minimum wage, that's completely different.

We know people work for less in India. That's why so many jobs have been moved there.

[TwilightGardener]

5. The maid ended up at a safe house for human-traffick victims, from what I've read.

The US brought her whole family here, either for protection from reprisal or to build their case. India is desperate to bring their gal back home because the diplomat in question was...arrested and "humiliated" with a strip search? The US stole her female honor? Yeah right. The State Department will let her go, because that's what mature countries do, whereas India behaves like a sad little banana republic in their retaliation.

[cosmicone]

10. The maid came here voluntarily

and signed all her employment contracts which require her to seek grievance in India.

Instead, the scheming maid saw an opportunity to get a quick immigration visa by lying.

There was no need to arrest the consul general -- she was not a violent criminal nor a flight risk.

[JI7]

13. slavery is not ok

[cosmicone]

19. What slavery?

The maid was paid by the Indian government, plus free passage both ways and for vacations, plus retirement and healthcare benefits.

[JI7]

23. it's not ok to pay someone less than minimum wage and make up for it with a plane ticket or some

other item.

[cosmicone]

41. Again, it has NOT been established that she was not paid minimum wage

It is what SHE is alleging.

[JI7]

45. it's been established a lot more than the Maid being a CIA Agent

[Recursion]

98. No, that's merely been charged. That's why we have trials.

And, yes, Mrs. Khobragade is innocent until proved guilty, just like the women in jail she called drug addicts and sex workers.

[okaawhatever]

113. The BBC is reporting that there were two contracts. One for $573 per month. That's a pretty specific

claim. Also, I doubt the federal attorney would have brought the charges with just the testimony of the maid. Plus the Indian Government has moved her to the United Nations where she will have full immunity going forward once her credentials are accepted by the UN and USA. I doubt they would make that move if they thought she was innocent.

[sabrina 1]

107. Has this case been tried already? Could you link us to the resolution of the maid's case where we

can look at the evidence and be certain that this is not just your own opinion with nothing to back it up? I've seen before on DU where some people make absolute statements about cases like this only to find out later they were just making stuff up and the facts turned out to be entirely different.

So if you could back up your statement that made was a slave please, because nothing I've read about this case has said anything about slavery. Thank you inadvance.

[JI7]

108. if you are paying less than 3 dollars in the US it's fucking Slavery

and threatening her family and getting corrupt politicians like her dad to bring a lawsuit against the maid.

[sabrina 1]

111. I asked for links, not your personal 'reporting'. Where are you getting this from, was there a trial

somewhere where these facts were established?

So once again, I don't know you so have no idea of your credentials as a reporter. Could you link to where these facts HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED, because you are typing as if they have been. I have seen NOTHING about slavery, and so far I have seen only what is known as ALLEGATIONS, so when were these allegations established as FACTS?

I'm not asking for YOUR interpretation of allegations. I am asking why you are are so confident of what you are claiming, it has to be because what you are claiming has been established as FACTS. No one speaks so confidently without having access to credible sources that have established facts, unless they are the kind of person who doesn't need facts and simply makes up their own.

If you cannot provide some substantiation that these facts have been established, a simple 'they have not been established. I'm just stating my own, completely uninformed opinion' will do.

[TwilightGardener]

14. OMG. THE SCHEMING MAID!!!!

Too much...

[JI7]

16. well, she is a CIA Agent

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=676661

[cosmicone]

21. She may be. Do you know for sure she is not? n/t

[JI7]

27. it's no different than those who think MAlala is

[Bradical79]

55. Explain how that works

How do you prove someone is NOT a CIA agent?

[cosmicone]

58. How do you prove someone is?

CIA doesn't issue business cards

[Bradical79]

71. Two clearly different tasks

Proving a positive is much different than proving a negative. Clearly if she is a CIA agent there would be some evidence of that. Contact with a superior, being caught doing something that would indicate espionage, etc. If there is no evidence of someone being a CIA agent there is no rational reason to think someone is.

[cosmicone]

78. How many people knew Valerie Plame was a CIA agent

before Cheney and Rove outed her?

[Bradical79]

87. That makes no sense.

We know she was a CIA agent because evidence existed to prove that she was.

[Recursion]

97. Yes, unless the CIA wanted to spy on the halfway house for trafficked women

She left Khobragade's house six months ago after only a few weeks there. It's hard to spy when you aren't even in the house, you know?

[treestar]

117. If she is, does that mean she deserves the low pay?

[Recursion]

104. That angle is *everywhere* here in India.

All the major party politicians are running with it. It's like bizarro-world.

Khobagadre's rich and influential father (who also got her an apartment in south Mumbai that was supposed to be set aside for war widows, but that's a different story...) got a judge in Delhi to slap a judgement against her and her family for having the audacity to report her treatment to US authorities and demand her back wages (that's the "blackmail" people are talking about: she asked for the money she was owed under the terms of her visa application). The US has a special class of visas for persons in this situation (T-1, T-2, and T-3; seriously, it's amazing how many different visa classes there are) so they granted them to her family and got them to the US. But it's not just cynical cronyism; I've had otherwise very liberal people here tell me with a straight face "of course that's blackmail". This is a big disconnect.

The only question here seems to be whether Bharara is a self-loathing Indian, or whether he is an otherwise good man duped by (ominous music) the scheming maid.

[TwilightGardener]

17. BTW, you do understand that in this country we arrest those (who don't actually have

full diplomatic immunity) who commit non-violent crimes, right? Martha Stewart spent time in prison for non-violent crimes. That's clear to you, right?

[TwilightGardener]

39. "Useless immigrant couple...providing for them..." You have revealed so much

about your attitude toward class and status in these posts, it's just full of win. Nobody in the US is looking down on the maid for being a maid. Sorry, that's what makes us pretty damn awesome here in the US. We have our failings and our problems, but we do treat people fairly equally, or strive to.

[cosmicone]

46. I am not looking down on her because she is a maid

I am calling her useless because instead of following proper grievance procedures, she found a quick way to get an immigration visa.

Every organization has proper route for grievance procedures. She did not follow it. It shows that her plan was to get a US visa from the beginning.

[TwilightGardener]

52. I don't think you know the full story yet, unless you are somehow connected to this case.

What we do know is that the charge against the consular official is that she had a PRIVATE contract drawn up with the maid that was markedly different from the one she submitted to the US. That's why she was arrested.

[cosmicone]

54. The consular officers don't pay their servants

Government of India does.

[TwilightGardener]

61. Maybe that's why India is so goddamn embarrassed, then, huh?

I think we have to see what the full case is, and why the consular official had her dad draw up a second contract that wasn't shown to US officials.

[cosmicone]

66. In any event, there was no need to arrest the Consul General

She would not have been imprisoned anyway. She would have been exonerated or the Indian government would have paid a fine and restitution.

Arresting her was inflammatory and the rule of thumb is that one doesn't piss off a country of over a billion people and which is a valuable ally.

US did not act in the national interest and was an epic fail on diplomacy.

[Recursion]

101. Right, but the allegation here is that Khobragade was taking the money alloted to her maid

giving the maid a small fraction of it, and keeping the rest herself.

Look, I don't envy people who have to live in NY and are paid in rupees. Particularly given the cap that for protocol reasons she can't make more than the President Mukherjee (or maybe PM Singh? Probably Mukherjee since it's a protocol issue), which caps her at something like $45K / year at current exchange rates. But then again at the mission in Vienna, it's famous that the local interns are paid more than all but the most senior US FSOs, because that's what local labor laws require.

Now, maybe a scheming maid has duped both a shelter for trafficked women and a US Attorney. Stranger things have happened. But that's what a trial is for; they will have every chance to show that they in fact paid Richards the amount listed on the visa (no, in-kind benefits don't count. No, travel reimbursement doesn't count. No, health insurance doesn't count.)

As I keep coming back to, the Consulate and Mrs. Khobragade have known for four months that the US Attorney was in contact with Richards and was contemplating criminal prosecution if this issue wasn't resolved. Four months to either give her what she was entitled to, or at the worst leave the mission and go to another post. Instead, they slapped a lawsuit against her and her family for having the audacity to complain about her treatment.

[JI7]

42. "useless immigrant couple" ? did you make a mistake and thing you were on FReerepublic ?

[mike_c]

44. a "useless immigrant couple?"

Really? That's rather insulting, don't you think?

[cosmicone]

50. See post No. 46

She is untrustworthy because she breached contracts, lied, absconded and schemed.

I wouldn't hire her even if she worked for free because there is no loyalty in her.

[TeamPooka]

73. You use the term "useless immigrant couple" here like you are at FoxNews.com or FreeRepublic.

Denying a persons basic humanity is wrong and should not be tolerated by the DU community.

[cosmicone]

76. See my explanatory posts above

I called her useless because she breached contract, did not follow chain of command to address grievances and lied in order to get an immigrantion visa. Not because of any other reason.

[TeamPooka]

89. note that your post was hidden by jury decision.

[JI7]

11. good thing, the attacks on the maid there are really disgusting

[cosmicone]

15. There is due process of law in India

Preet Bharara unilaterally decided to engage in obstruction of justice under the "look how good an American boy I have become, see how I treat those Indians."

Why didn't he arrest the low level Russian consular employees who were accused of medicaid fraud? None of them was ever arrested.

[JI7]

20. he must hate Italian AMericans also since he goes after those italian american mafia

[cosmicone]

22. Mafia are violent criminals who commit murders etc.

No need to treat a consul general the same way.

[JI7]

24. Treating Workers like Shit is a violent crime also

[cosmicone]

28. It has not been established that she was treated like shit

it is all part of her scheme to quickly get a US Immigration Visa.

[JI7]

30. why would a CIA agent need to worry about something like that ?

[cosmicone]

33. Scheming maid and CIA agent are two separate theories

and both are speculative on my part.

I cannot prove them any more than you can disprove them.

[JI7]

40. BEHNGHAZI

[cosmicone]

56. It is spelled B-E-N-G-A-Z-I

You need to bring your information level up.

[JI7]

60. actually it's spelled BENGHAZI

[cosmicone]

79. well spotted. n/t

[Recursion]

99. Well, *actually* it's spelled...

بنغازي

"g" and "gh" are both used for that letter in different transliteration schemes.

[BlueJazz]

18. Yeah...well, I'm "humiliated" everytime I leave the country and come back. They....

.....sob...they...do all kinds of hurtful things like look in my bags and...check my baggage. It's rough out there Lady...grow up.

[smitra]

25. You are not a diplomat. That's the difference, even if you...

... and scores of posters on DU don't realize it.

[BlueJazz]

36. She is from India where they treat women like HORSESHIT. I-Don't Care.

[smitra]

47. Spare me that total B.S. Keep your biases and racism to yourself.

If you don't care, don't post on this thread. The fact that you are doing that shows that you do.

[Bradical79]

92. I agree, but the jury didn't

I don't agree with a lot of reasoning behind what a couple of the diplomat defenders said like the CIA nonsense and attacking the maid without cause, but I also thought this post clearly crossed the line from legitimate criticism into racism/bigotry. The jury voted 2-4 to leave it alone though. I'm more than a little shocked that this many people think that guilt due to someone's ethnic background is justified. Also, when did DUers start thinking being arrested is justification for a woman to be strip searched? I don't care what kind of dirt bag she might be, it's not something that should be an acceptable part of our justice system.

[treestar]

119. Are you really going to call it racism now?

[closeupready]

121. He/she called me a racist in another recent thread, for

for nothing more than posting "LOL", and no, I am not making this up.

[cosmicone]

26. You are not handcuffed, cavity searched and thrown in a jail cell

with drug addicts.

[JI7]

29. the drug addicts are the real victims to be grouped up with a human trafficker

[TwilightGardener]

32. WTF, "drug addicts"? I used to work with 'em. They're human beings as much as

the consular woman. Maybe the poor drug addicts shouldn't have been housed WITH HER, what did they do to deserve that?

[cosmicone]

35. Why don't you volunteer to stay in a jail cell with a few of them

since it is no big deal to you!

[TwilightGardener]

49. Um, well, it probably won't come up since I didn't submit fraudulent info

on a visa application. That said, drug addicts are everywhere, in prisons, in hospitals, at your workplace, etc. etc. I had one as a neighbor, two as coworkers, cared for many as a nurse.

[cosmicone]

53. So it is okay to give fraudulent information

to a US Attorney to get a quick immigration visa for the family?

[TwilightGardener]

59. Of course not. If the maid is charged and found guilty in the US of any crimes,

I'd have no problem with her arrest. That doesn't absolve the consular lady. Nor does being inconvenienced, embarrassed, handcuffed. Us arresting her doesn't mean she's suddenly innocent. She just needs to get her silly ass out of this country.

[cosmicone]

62. In the end, the maid will be proven to have lied

However, at issue is common diplomatic courtesy between nations where each others diplomatic staff is not arrested for non-violent crimes or crimes that don't pose danger to the community. It protects our diplomats around the world as well as a two way street.

Dozens of US soldiers commit rape in Okinawa, Philippines, Malta etc. but they are immediately whisked out of there without a trial. It is hypocrisy at its best and I am simply incensed by the hypocrisy.

[TwilightGardener]

67. Throwing every other case you can think of at this issue in order to cloud it

isn't really working to your advantage. But while we're bringing up unrelated stuff, didn't India's diplomats have prior problems with this domestic stuff? Yeah, seems to be a theme with them.

[cosmicone]

70. All diplomatic posts of all countries

have had this problem. That is the hypocrisy. This is the first time a diplomat was arrested.

[TwilightGardener]

93. Yep, someone finally got caught flouting the law and was held accountable.

[BlueJazz]

34. She is from India where they treat women like HORSESHIT. I-Don't Care.

[cosmicone]

37. Heard of Steubenville? n/t

[smitra]

48. BINGO! Those who live in glass houses....

[cosmicone]

68. Nice to know you're not unbiased or poorly informed.

[BlueJazz]

82. Yes. You are right. Everybody is allowed to despise (at least) ONE thing. Mine is India.

The only thing I would like to see in India is 2 million Tigers

[smitra]

85. You made that rule up for yourself? Really, amazing that a small-minded person like you...

... is on a supposedly liberal board. Goodbye.

[BlueJazz]

86. Yes..It IS rather cool...isn't it ?

[smitra]

88. You are going on my Ignore list. n/t

[BlueJazz]

90. So you're pissed because I don't care for India...ok...because I hate India?

[smitra]

72. You are entitled to your biased opinion.

And the football team is not representative of American men, but they are what... a special species? And you think that every man in India is a potential rapist? Why.. because of the culture they grew up in?

If true, this is EVIDENCE of racism.

You don't like India? Stay out of it. Stay out of threads commenting on India and issues related to her. We are will rid of you.

[treestar]

118. There being rape in the US as there is everywhere

does not excuse discrimination against women in other countries. And here, it is more likely to be punished.

[BainsBane]

102. I fail to see how paying someone substandard wages and falsifying govt documents

Is better than being a drug addict. In fact, I'd say that if the allegations are true, it is far worse. Non-violent drug addicts hurt only themselves. I don't see see how being born into privilege makes her entitled to treatment any better than any other arrested person.

[Recursion]

103. OK. That, right there, is where Americans stop listening...

We don't have special jail cells for "important" suspects, and we don't want them. Hell, George W. Bush's daughters were held in the normal drunk tank in Arlington. How many different jails has Sanjay Dutt waltzed in and out of? That's what we don't want. Rich people hiring expensive lawyers to get lenient sentences is bad enough; we definitely don't want intake and holding to go that way too.

Incidentally, since that was a jail, not a prison, those women are just as innocent until proven guilty as Khobagadre.

[JustAnotherGen]

128. Amen

And that's something I really really don't want to see. We already have enough problems with justice for the rich and privileged and none for the rest. At least in the holding cell it's equal footing. Strip searching - over the top. Completely over the top. But a holding cell is a holding cell and there shouldn't be special ones for the elites.

[smitra]

57. American hypocrisy?

I am quoting these in response to "We-are-Americans-so-how-could-our-authorities-possibly-do-the-wrong-thing" attitude on this issue.

Two quotes from here: http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/12/18/diplomatic-abuse-of-servants-not-just-for-indians/

Rape

According to court documents, a U.S. Department of State diplomat and her husband tricked an Ethiopian woman into accompanying them as their domestic servant to Japan, where they held her virtually as a prisoner in their home and forced her to work for them for less than $1 per hour and where the husband repeatedly raped the woman with his diplomat wife’s consent. A Virginia federal judge awarded the victim $3.3 million in damages on a default judgment against the couple. (*** NOTE **) The diplomat retired from the State Department with full pension and then fled the country (** NOTE **).

The victim, identified only as “Jane Doe,” told the court she was hired by the Howards in 2008 as a live-in housekeeper at the couple’s home in Yemen, where Linda Howard worked at the U.S. embassy. Doe says she agreed to move with the couple to Japan after Linda Howard was transferred to the embassy there and that she was promised wages of $300 per month, time off each week, health insurance and a safe place to live and work.

Once in Japan, Doe says, Russell Howard repeatedly raped her, forced her to perform oral sex and sexually assaulted her. Doe says Linda Howard was complicit in her husband’s sexual abuse, telling Doe that she should gratify her husband and make him happy. Doe, who speaks little English and no Japanese, says the Howards also used nonphysical force, such as isolation and threats of deportation, to coerce her into servitude.

.... Snip...

Abuse and Visa Fraud

Harold Countryman, along with his spouse Kimberly, was a U.S. diplomat assigned to Seoul, Korea. Before leaving the country, he and his wife hired a Cambodian woman to work for them in the U.S. Harold falsified the necessary U.S. visa application to get the Cambodian woman into the U.S., falsely claiming he would pay her minimum wage. Instead, once in the U.S., the Countrymans “Held her passport,” says Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. “Her wages came out to roughly a dollar an hour.” The woman was berated and sometimes assaulted. She was not allowed to leave the Countrymans’ house. Luckily, a neighbor noticed something wrong and called the cops, who luckily took it all seriously. This story has a semi-happy ending of sorts: The couple pleaded guilty to visa fraud, and are paying the Cambodian woman $50,000 in restitution. (** NOTE **) Harold Countryman, the diplomat, only received probation, however (** NOTE **).

What do you posters on "American exceptionalism is OK when it comes to preventing human trafficking" have to say to that?

[JI7]

63. i don't get it, you should be calling for the arrest of these people , not using the "everyone else

did it" argument to excuse others .

[smitra]

64. I am informing the readers of this thread how the SYSTEM works...

... Read the blog carefully. How many of these offenders were treated like Dr. Khobragade was? An American diplomat probably guilty of murder was spirited out of the scene of the possible crime (Kenya) by the US EMBASSY in one day. The justification for that is diplomatic immunity. THAT is the issue.

[JI7]

69. so demand arrest for others, this is like saying a rapist should not be arrested and charged

because some other one got away with it. it's just really odd.

[smitra]

74. The comparisons between this case and rape are inappropriate, and odious. This should be clear to...

.. anyone with a modicum of intelligence. If you can't see the essence of my point, stop responding.

[JI7]

77. if you don't want any repsonses don't post on an online discussion forum

[smitra]

80. I don't want responses from uninformed, biased people like you...

I hope to get responses from people with open minds and eager to learn the ways of humankind, and deal with the issues that confront the world as a whole. Got that?

[JI7]

81. you accusing others of bias is hilarious

[smitra]

84. This is one post to which I will respond with one word: LOL. End of discussion.n/t

[cosmicone]

75. Another link of corruption by US consular officers

http://m.vice.com/read/the-corrupt-secrets-of-the-american-consulate

About 10 years ago, a consular officer was asking for sexual favors in Brazil in order to grant visas.

None of these people were ever tried and retired on full pensions.

[smitra]

83. Amazing, isnt' it?

And none of the self-righteous posters here are responding to this, or to either your or my post on hypocrisy.

[Ash_F]

91. Read the complaint here

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/us-v-devyani-khobragade-complaint/671/

The complaint alleges that the contract said she was to receive 9.75 per hour for 40 hours a week. It has two witnesses(her and her husband) that claim she was in fact payed 30,000 rupees per month(about 3$ per hour) and worked far more than 40 hours per week with no overtime.

This case is really interesting to me, because I work with the Department of Labor on minimum wage violations, as part of my volunteer work, on cases with perps who have underpaid hundreds of workers on the order of millions of dollars.. over decades.

And I have never...ever heard of someone being jailed for wage theft. Never. So this is a little weird to see. Not that I disagree with it(diplomatic immunity notwithstanding).

Although I see that this case is being prosecuted by the Department of State and not the Department of Labor. I guess that goes to show which has bigger clout.

Jeez...I wish I could get the DoS to prosecute our perps.

[TwilightGardener]

94. I think it's more fraud than wage theft. The accused in this case submitted false

documentation to the United States.

[Ash_F]

96. Yeah, I know that is what she was specifically jailed for

But 100 percent of our cases involved substantial tax fraud. Some going back to the 1980's. It is kind of impossible to commit minimum wage fraud without also committing tax fraud.

Still...nobody has or is likely going to jail in any of our cases.

Not saying that, because of that inequity, this diplomat should not be jailed. I just did not want DUers to think it is normal for wage thieves to go to jail in this country just because this story blew up.

I wish that they did, but no.

[Bradical79]

95. I agree.

It is strange. The strip search allegations and the fact of her being a diplomat make it far from a black and white case too.

[Recursion]

106. The falsified contract is what's causing the reaction

I agree, wage theft is shamefully underpunished in the US; what brought this to the level it's at is the falsified visa, which is a telltale of TIP.

[Ash_F]

110. Just to point out: You CAN be jailed for wage theft.

But it takes at least 2 convictions under Federal law. Yet still I have never heard of it happening.

[cherokeeprogressive]

100. Am I reading this right? "But Mom! You didn't spank Tommy when HE did it! This isn't FAIR!"

And by THIS token, the Indian Government demands an apology and that she be freed?

[smitra]

105. Quoting Hussain Haqqani, Karl Inderfurth...

Hussain Haqqani, former Pakistani ambassador to the US (Pakistan being a country not usually known for being friendly to India), has commented on how the treatment of the Indian diplomat is particularly galling:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/19/husain-haqqani-on-america-s-diplomat-shame.html

Here - http://www.rediff.com/news/report/regret-not-enough-us-must-apologise-experts-on-devyani-arrest/20131220.htm - Karl Inderfurth, erstwhile assistant secretary of state for South Asian affairs in the Clinton administration, told rediff.com, “The incident involving India’s deputy consul general was outrageous, deplorable and inexcusable. Period. Full stop.”

He said, “The initial State Department response was unacceptable and decidedly undiplomatic, saying US officials were merely following ‘standard procedures’ and the provisions of the Vienna Convention.”

Inderfurth said, “Falling back on legalisms was totally tone deaf.”

That's what the issue is, period. I post this in response to comments on this thread that appear to say "So what if the American offender(s) got off scot-free, this does not mean we should not behave like a**holes in this case...".

Of course, further investigations, conducted in a transparent manner, should reveal the truth, and Dr. Khobragade will have to face the consequences of what comes out.

[JI7]

109. it's really frustrating but it comes back to people seeing Domestic Workers and other Poor as not

equals and not deserving of basic things.

how people are acting like the maid should be thankful that she had a fucking plane ticket paid for and was able to use the phone of the person she was working for. SO FUCKING WHAT ??????????? as if she is some less than human thing .

the Maid is the victim here.

it's no wonder domestic servants have it the worst in India compared to the rest of the world. people don't see them as deserving of basic rights.

and then you have some bizarre attacks on the DA and claims about CIA conspiracy ? that's how bad it is. people just can't accept the maid as being victim. you see the same with certain racists in the US when it comes to black people. people just have to see black males as violent.

[smitra]

115. With a measure of sadness, I am trashing this thread.

Over the past two days, in this thread and another related one on LBN, I have learned something about my fellow DU members. What I have learned has been a revelation to me, and a disappointment.

1. I have noted the tendency to accept what the American side says as the gospel truth, and either ignore or demean what the other (Indian) side says. Even when facts are presented, the posters' minds are not changed -- it is as if they deliberately do not want to see what is being pointed out. This is especially galling when the instances of American hypocrisy - the fact that the US protects its own erring diplomats by hook or crook, and gives them a slap on the wrist at best - is pointed out, it elicits no response.

2. More importantly... out and out racism. The point of no return on this was a poster who said that they are allowed to absolutely hate one thing, and in their case, they hate India, and would like to see it populated by 2 million tigers and nothing else.

I have now realized that while my outlook and attitude is similar to my fellow DU members when discussing US political issues, we are far apart in our attitudes towards other countries/cultures. A belief in American exceptionalism seems to be ingrained in some posters - the liberality of the board does not extend to people beyond the US' shores.

I shall therefore be trashing any India-related thread henceforth.

To those few DU members who responded with some evidence of an open mind, thank you.

[closeupready]

120. Oh, get over yourself. You branded me a racist in another recent thread.

For laughing. (Not making that up.)

[smitra]

123. Exactly the kind of person that caused me to trash the threads, and make my point.

I leave it to any thinking DUer to determine whether laughing can be sign of derision or not, and whether it reflects prejudice or not.

[closeupready]

124. 123 responses, and even YOU didn't rec the thread.

That tells us that DU isn't buying your bullshit here, or that of the other one you got the tag team thing going. LOL

[seveneyes]

122. Incarceration gets everyone strip searched

Everyone from traffic violations to disturbing the peace. Authorities will not allow anyone into holding facilities until searched completely. Ones title usually does not allow for breaking protocol.

[Blue_Tires]

125. methinks India doth protest too much...

I'd posted in another thread several examples (here and elsewhere) of people getting arrested despite diplomatic immunity...

[Niceguy1]

127. she should have been treated with the

,considerations given to her position. The people arrested her really dropped the ball on this one. You just don't do stuff like that

[Beacool]

129. Foreign diplomats are allowed to bring household staff with them.

American diplomats usually hire locally. When a visa is granted to the household staff, it is made clear to the diplomat that they must pay their staff the legal US minimum wage. This woman chose not to pay it and was paying her housekeeper a bit over $3.00 an hour. If she didn't agree with our laws, then she could have cleaned her own place and not brought a maid with her.