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Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 01:45 PM Dec 2013

Special Knesset Meeting Called to Release Pollard

Source: Arutz Sheva

MKs from across the religious, political, cultural spectrums convene in Knesset. The cause: Jonathan Pollard's freedom.

MKs from across the political spectrum attended a special Knesset session Wednesday, in a public call for the release of Jonathan Pollard to the administration of US President Barack Obama.

Jews and Arabs, left-wing and right-wing politicians, secular and religious parties alike came together in solidarity to call for Pollard's freedom.

It was yet another campaign on behalf of the Israeli prisoner, who has been held in the US for over 28 years on spying allegations.

Much of the criticism was directed toward US President Barack Obama. White House spokespeople declared Monday that the President has "no intention" to respond to the mounting calls for Pollard's release.


Read more: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/175544#.UrsY5Hm9XOE

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Special Knesset Meeting Called to Release Pollard (Original Post) Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 OP
um....probably because he was found guilty of spying.... maximillian1974 Dec 2013 #1
Yeah... "Spying allegations?" There was a conviction, it's not allegations Scootaloo Dec 2013 #2
He pleaded guilty! alcibiades_mystery Dec 2013 #8
Perhaps billhicks76 Dec 2013 #3
Actually, they traded much of that information to the Soviet Union rpannier Dec 2013 #11
How about some comparison? question everything Dec 2013 #17
If Israel is our friend.. sendero Dec 2013 #23
It would be nice if you bother to educate yourself about foreign aid in general question everything Dec 2013 #27
Blather away.. sendero Dec 2013 #29
I feel sorry for you question everything Dec 2013 #30
Post removed Post removed Dec 2013 #32
Pollard is up for parole in 2015. Israel gave the info to Russia so it ended up in the same place okaawhatever Dec 2013 #24
And you know this, how? question everything Dec 2013 #28
A couple of excerpts from his history: okaawhatever Dec 2013 #36
Israel isn't a friend anasv Dec 2013 #38
The usual grandstanding to create great noise ... BlueMTexpat Dec 2013 #4
the reign of Raygun the Irreproachable.! lunatica Dec 2013 #16
Its more than just being eligible for parole grantcart Dec 2013 #18
Pollard is extremely lucky that he wasn't executed as a traitor LiberalEsto Dec 2013 #5
Will you hold the same opinion about Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen? question everything Dec 2013 #19
I question whether Israel is really a friend nt LiberalEsto Dec 2013 #20
This is obvious. Which means you are incapable of posting balanced opinion on this matter (nt) question everything Dec 2013 #21
So you can call yourself "question everything" LiberalEsto Dec 2013 #22
Pollard is still a traitor. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #34
As long as you want to execute traitors question everything Dec 2013 #31
Let's be accurate here LiberalEsto Dec 2013 #33
Snowden and Manning are heroes anasv Dec 2013 #39
The article states thast Pollard is an Israeli prisoner azurnoir Dec 2013 #6
Fuck him sideways alcibiades_mystery Dec 2013 #7
Maybe he'll get paroled in 2015. Thirty years is a long time. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2013 #9
Release Gov. Don Siegelman before no_hypocrisy Dec 2013 #10
++ nt dougolat Dec 2013 #12
They can pound sand Tom Ripley Dec 2013 #13
Meyer Lansky and Jonathan Pollard Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #14
Why Obama won't pardon Pollard Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #15
ha, ha, ha, ha, ha anasv Dec 2013 #40
Let's trade him.......... 4bucksagallon Dec 2013 #25
The president won't and should not pardon him. Let him take his chances with parole. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #26
Report: Kerry Offers Pollard's Release to Israel Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #35
So are they letting Mordechai Vanunu leave Israel? 24601 Dec 2013 #37
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
2. Yeah... "Spying allegations?" There was a conviction, it's not allegations
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 02:00 PM
Dec 2013

And really, this is an exemplary case of "other people do bad things too" - This is in response to the revelation that the US spies on Israel (uh... fucking duh, guys.) Rather than call for the release of an Israeli spy, wouldn't the logical thing to do be arresting the American ones? I mean I'm pretty sure espionage is illegal in Israel as well... Could be wrong, but c'mon.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
3. Perhaps
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 02:39 PM
Dec 2013

Perhaps this man had contributed to keeping Israel safe more than anyone can imagine. And however they got nukes is maybe the the greatest hero they ever had because by now there could have been full fledged war from its neighbors. I hate their conservative government but in the same way I despise the conservatives here and I believe they are both guilty of major crimes. But the big picture is still the big picture. Israel given its nuclear might has an obligation to turn towards peace now and usher in a more benevolent region.

rpannier

(24,432 posts)
11. Actually, they traded much of that information to the Soviet Union
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 07:14 PM
Dec 2013

After the fall of the Soviet Union allegations by the intelligence community that Israel traded secrets to the Soviets to get Soviet Jews released was confirmed. The stuff Pollard stole was among the information discovered

question everything

(48,065 posts)
17. How about some comparison?
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:42 PM
Dec 2013

Both Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen were sentenced to life. Just like Pollard.

They spied for an enemy - the Soviet Union - while Pollard spied for a friend, Israel (DU definition of this friendship notwithstanding).

And Ames and Hanssen compromised our operations in the Soviet Union, resulting in executing of our agents.

No one was executed because of Pollard.

Somehow it was a personal vendetta by Caspar Weinberger.

Either way, if Ames and Hanssen were sentenced to life, than Pollard has long paid his dues.

We do believe in releasing people after they've paid their dues, don't we?

Obama recently commuted the sentence of individuals who were sentenced to harsh prison terms for using crack cocaine - and many of us accept the fact that it is disproportionately harsh, compared to "just" smoking cocaine.

The same rationale holds here.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
23. If Israel is our friend..
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:15 PM
Dec 2013

.. who needs enemies? Nothing they do is friendly, they just take our money and tell us to fuck off.

Pollard should die in prison, he is scum.

question everything

(48,065 posts)
27. It would be nice if you bother to educate yourself about foreign aid in general
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 10:52 PM
Dec 2013

and the one to Israel in particular.

First, most foreign aid has to be returned to our country, to purchase supplies and equipment.

Second, you may hate everything military, but our country has benefited from many Israeli interactions. During the cold war, whenever Israel got access to Soviet military equipment, the CIA and the military were there to inspect them.

Even now there are often joint military exercises.

And for years the Sixth Fleet was stationed at Israeli ports, ready for any mission.

Some 15 or 20 years ago, I don't remember, the Israeli airline - El Al - was in a process of purchasing new aircraft. It considered both Airbus and Boeing. And then came a not so subtle message from Washington that this sale should be given to Boeing, and Israel complied.

No doubt, there are many similar transactions in Israel and around the world. You probably think that this is how it should be but then don't complain about Israel.

But, I suppose, reasons and fact do not matter here when it comes to Israel.

There are so many nations round the world, most are not democratic, kill their own people, arrest and kill journalists but, hey, if an Israeli politician breaks wind - this has to be reported on DU, on LBN, no less.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
29. Blather away..
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 11:05 PM
Dec 2013

..... I have watched the actions of Israel for a long time. they are NOT our friend by any conventional definition of the word "friend".

question everything

(48,065 posts)
30. I feel sorry for you
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 11:12 PM
Dec 2013

You probably do not have any friends, if you want them to match your definition, whatever it is.

And you re trying try to express an opinion about foreign policy but have no idea what diplomacy and foreign policy entail.

How sad.

Response to question everything (Reply #30)

okaawhatever

(9,482 posts)
24. Pollard is up for parole in 2015. Israel gave the info to Russia so it ended up in the same place
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:19 PM
Dec 2013

Ames and Hanssen, they traded it for help with nukes.

question everything

(48,065 posts)
28. And you know this, how?
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 10:55 PM
Dec 2013

And if true, how many of our agents were executed by the Soviets as a result of this "transaction?"

okaawhatever

(9,482 posts)
36. A couple of excerpts from his history:
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 11:33 PM
Dec 2013

Within a few days, in June 1984, Pollard started passing classified information to Sella and received, in exchange, $10,000 cash and a very expensive diamond and sapphire ring, which Pollard later used to propose marriage to his girlfriend Anne. He also agreed to receive $1,500 per month for further espionage.[25]
Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) investigator Ronald Olive has alleged that Pollard passed classified information to South Africa,[26] and attempted, through a third party, to sell classified information to Pakistan on multiple occasions.[27] Pollard also stole classified documents related to China on behalf of his wife, who used the information to advance her personal business interests and kept them around the house, where they were discovered by investigating authorities when Pollard's espionage activity came to light.[28][29][30]
During Pollard's trial, the government's memorandum in aid of sentencing challenges "defendant's claim that he was motivated by altruism rather than greed", asserting that Pollard had "disclosed classified information in anticipation of financial gain" in other instances.
During the course of the Pollard trial, Australian authorities reported the disclosure of classified American documents by Pollard to one of their own agents, a Royal Australian Navy officer who had been engaged in a personnel-exchange naval liaison program between the U.S. and Australia.[32] The Australian officer, alarmed by Pollard's repeated disclosure to him of data caveated No Foreign Access Allowed, reported the indiscretions to his chain of command, which in turn recalled him from his position in the U.S., fearing that the disclosures might be part of a "CIA ruse"

for a more in depth article try this from the New Yorker magazine: Why Jonathan Pollard should never be released (the Traitor)
It lists more of what Pollard had done with specifics. here are a couple of excerpts.

High-level suspicions about Israeli-Soviet collusion were expressed as early as December, 1985, a month after Pollard's arrest, when William J. Casey, the late C.I.A. director, who was known for his close ties to the Israeli leadership, stunned one of his station chiefs by suddenly complaining about the Israelis breaking the "ground rules." The issue arose when Casey urged increased monitoring of the Israelis during an otherwise routine visit, I was told by the station chief, who is now retired. "He asked if I knew anything about the Pollard case," the station chief recalled, and he said that Casey had added, "For your information, the Israelis used Pollard to obtain our attack plan against the U.S.S.R. all of it. The coordinates, the firing locations, the sequences. And for guess who? The Soviets." (boldface mine - Ronin)Casey had then explained that the Israelis had traded the Pollard data for Soviet emigres. "How's that for cheating?" he had asked.

They often deal with signals intelligence, or SIGINT, and their world is kept in order by an in-house manual known as the RASIN an acronym for radio-signal notations. The manual, which is classified "top-secret Umbra," fills ten volumes, is constantly updated, and lists the physical parameters of every known signal. Pollard took it all. "It's the Bible," one former communications-intelligence officer told me. "It tells how we collect signals anywhere in the world." The site, frequency, and significant features of Israeli communications -- those that were known and targeted by the N.S.A. -- were in the RASIN; so were all the known communications links used by the Soviet Union.

Your comment about whether one of our agents was executed is too stupid to warrant an answer.

 

anasv

(225 posts)
38. Israel isn't a friend
Sat Dec 28, 2013, 05:37 PM
Dec 2013

It's an apartheid disgrace. It shames the word "Democracy." Pollard should stay in jail until he croaks.

BlueMTexpat

(15,422 posts)
4. The usual grandstanding to create great noise ...
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 03:11 PM
Dec 2013

and as much trouble as possible for a Democratic Prez. This hysteria never seems to manifest itself when Reps are Prez. Ironically, Pollard was convicted during the reign of Raygun the Irreproachable.

Pollard is also eligible for parole and could be released in 2015, according to Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

I haven't a shred of pity for him. He is an ideologue of the first order as well as a traitor to the US. If he is released, I hope that as a condition of his release, he has to spend the rest of his life in Israel.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
18. Its more than just being eligible for parole
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:48 PM
Dec 2013

as the article you link to explains, it is a MANDATED parole, if he has served with a clean record.



At the time of Pollard's sentencing there was a rule that mandated parole consideration after 30 years of imprisonment for prisoners serving life sentences, who had maintained a clean record in prison. He is currently scheduled to be released November 21, 2015.

His Federal Bureau of Prisons ID is #09185-016. He is incarcerated in FCI Butner Medium at the Butner Federal Correction Complex in North Carolina. The Bureau of Prisons (BOP) projects his release date as November 21, 2015.[52]



I hope that he is not allowed to live in Israel where he will be treated as a great hero.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
5. Pollard is extremely lucky that he wasn't executed as a traitor
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 03:33 PM
Dec 2013

An American citizen, he used his government position to steal American secret material for Israel.

Regardless of his ethnic background, Pollard was an American citizen who betrayed his home country as well as the government that employed him.


question everything

(48,065 posts)
19. Will you hold the same opinion about Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen?
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:48 PM
Dec 2013

Pollard spied for a friend, Israel, regardless of your opinion.

Ames and Hanssen spied for an enemy, the Soviet Union, resulting in executions of our agents.

No one died as a result of Pollard spying.

And, of course, there have been many cases when we caught a Soviet spy and exchanged it for an American held in the USSR.

Perhaps Israel should have captured an American spy - yes, of course there are - and then exchange him.


 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
22. So you can call yourself "question everything"
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:09 PM
Dec 2013

Last edited Fri Dec 27, 2013, 11:49 AM - Edit history (1)

but I can't question anything?

And where does it say I have to provide "balanced opinion?

My opinion is my opinion, take it or leave it.

question everything

(48,065 posts)
31. As long as you want to execute traitors
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 11:15 PM
Dec 2013

you should start with Snowden and with Bradley Manning.

These two losers have cost our country dearly and we will probably never know the full magnitude. And, of course, Snowden is a coward for escaping to such freedom loving countries like China and Russia... NOT



 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
33. Let's be accurate here
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 11:47 AM
Dec 2013

Did I write anywhere that Pollard SHOULD be executed?

Can you find ONE INSTANCE in anything I posted on this thread that says I WANT Pollard executed?

Can you find a single instance in which I wrote that traitors SHOULD be executed?

I feel that you are twisting what I posted to fit your preconceptions and your obvious biases.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
6. The article states thast Pollard is an Israeli prisoner
Wed Dec 25, 2013, 03:34 PM
Dec 2013

'scuse me but I thought Pollard was American, perhaps he has dual citizenship?

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
14. Meyer Lansky and Jonathan Pollard
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:38 PM
Dec 2013
Meyer Lansky and Jonathan Pollard are both significant for what they say about US-Israel relations.


Israelis quarrel as to whether the country should have given in to US demands to extradite him, despite claims of achieving sanctuary in Israel under the Law of Return, but we've pretty much stopped arguing about him since he died in 1983.


What did he supply to Israel, and how important was it for what Israel was able to do?

Who violated the plea bargain, which was supposed to provide him with limited jail time? Was it first Pollard, who granted interviews in violation of the gag order he had agreed to, or was the principal actor Caspar Weinberger, said to be aiming for Pollard out of insecurity about his own Jewish background?

How stable was Pollard? Should he have been identified as a ticking bomb with unusual loyalties to Israel, and removed from his position with access to sensitive materials? Perhaps his superiors should be serving as much prison time as he. (The same argument could be made about those who continued the employment of Mordecai Vanunu, up to the time that the oddly behaving individual photographed the interior of the Dimona nuclear facility and sold the pictures to a British newspaper.)

Did Israel abandon Pollard in his time of need, when he was refused entry to the Israeli Embassy, which would have provided him at least temporary refuge from arrest?

How hard have Israeli officials pressed the Americans over the years to release him?

Has he served enough time, given how others have been treated for similar or more severe infractions?

Has he hurt American Jews via the issue of dual loyalties, and is it on account of this that there are American Jews who express a lack of interest in his fate, or oppose freeing him?

Israelis are also divided about him.While many believe that he has been punished enough, some do not want him here as the darling of the nationalist and religious right, likely to lionize him for breaking the law of the United States for the sake of Israel and the Jewish people.


http://blogs.jpost.com/content/meyer-lansky-and-jonathan-pollard

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
15. Why Obama won't pardon Pollard
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:51 PM
Dec 2013
The current US President has never commuted a life sentence for anyone and doesn’t appear open to changing his policy.

Israel is abuzz with allegations of American bad faith in continuing to imprison convicted spy Jonathan Pollard despite the fact that recent disclosures have revealed that the US itself has snooped on many friendly countries for years.

A November 10 Jerusalem Post editorial described the situation as “an egregious double standard and a stunning example of American hypocrisy.”

In Commentary Magazine, Jonathan S. Tobin charged that the use of the Pollard case “to demonize Israel or to claim that the Jewish state behaved in a manner unbecoming an ally is undermined by the revelations about the United States’ own considerable efforts to snoop on its friends.”

And Pollard’s wife Esther complained to the Post that US President Barack Obama wouldn’t free Pollard even as he participated in the traditional presidential ritual of pardoning turkeys on Thanksgiving. She found it objectionable that Obama would show “compassion and mercy to two lowly barnyard birds again this year, granting them a full pardon and sparing their lives” without showing her husband the same benevolence.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Why-Obama-wont-pardon-Pollard-334476

Many suspect the US refusal to grant clemency to Pollard is evidence Obama holds anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, or even anti-Semitic sentiments.

They’re wrong.


4bucksagallon

(975 posts)
25. Let's trade him..........
Thu Dec 26, 2013, 10:24 PM
Dec 2013

If they can catch Snowden and get him out of our "other friends" Russia's hands, we can have a trade. One traitor for another.

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
35. Report: Kerry Offers Pollard's Release to Israel
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 04:21 PM
Dec 2013

United States Secretary of State John Kerry has offered Israel the release of Jonathan Pollard, Channel 10 News reported on Friday.

According to the report, Kerry’s offer was made as part of the discussions surrounding the upcoming planned release of 26 terrorists from Israeli jails as a “gesture” to Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

Kol Yisrael radio, which also reported about Kerry’s offer, said it relates to the fourth stage of the terrorist release and is conditional upon Israel agreeing to release Israeli Arabs who have committed acts of terrorism.

Israeli officials were quoted by both outlets as having said that they believe the idea has not been cleared with President Barack Obama and as such were doubtful that the offer would actually be implemented.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/175622

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