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Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
Sat Dec 28, 2013, 12:28 PM Dec 2013

South Sudan: 'White Army' militia marches to fight

Source: AP

Twenty-five thousand young men who make up a tribal militia known as the "White Army" are marching toward a contested state capital in South Sudan, an official said Saturday, dimming hopes for a cease-fire.

Seeking an end to the nearly two-week crisis in which an estimated 1,000 people have been killed, leaders from across East Africa announced on Friday that South Sudan had agreed to a "cessation of hostilities" against forces loyal to former Vice President Riek Machar, whom the government accuses of leading a coup attempt Dec. 15 that erupted into spiraling violence.

But Machar rejected that, saying in an interview with the BBC that any cease-fire had to be negotiated by delegations from both sides. The government in the capital, Juba, seized on that statement to further condemn Machar.

"Dr. Riek Machar has put obstacles to this genuine call by issuing pre-conditions that a cease-fire cannot be reached unless a negotiation is conducted," said Vice President James Wani Igga. "This is complete intransigence and obstinacy because the main issue now is to stop violence."


Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/12/28/south-sudan-white-army-militia/4231213/

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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South Sudan: 'White Army' militia marches to fight (Original Post) Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 OP
S. Sudan's Former VP Mobilizing Youth, Allegedly for Attack Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #1
Tribal??? heaven05 Dec 2013 #2
What in the world gives you that idea? Scootaloo Dec 2013 #5
I don't think their is a difference between the robots and machetes. heaven05 Dec 2013 #7
I just know too much about our species, I suppose Scootaloo Dec 2013 #8
everything you say here, IS TRUE heaven05 Dec 2013 #10
Evolution is not Lamarkian Scootaloo Dec 2013 #11
hmmm, interesting points. heaven05 Dec 2013 #12
Doctor? SoapBox Dec 2013 #3
That's sad treestar Dec 2013 #4
South Sudan: White Army 'abandons war march' on Bor town muriel_volestrangler Dec 2013 #6
Would be great news...tribal wars are a concept from a different era...nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #9

Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)
1. S. Sudan's Former VP Mobilizing Youth, Allegedly for Attack
Sat Dec 28, 2013, 12:46 PM
Dec 2013

A South Sudan military spokesman says former vice president Riek Machar is mobilizing armed youth and moving them towards the town of Bor, a move that dims hope for an end to the conflict between supporters of Machar and President Salva Kiir.

In a VOA interview Saturday, military spokesman Philip Aguer said Machar is mobilizing the so called "White Army" youth to launch an attack on the central town.

Aguer says the military has forces in Bor and can repel any attack.

The youth, like Machar, are ethnic Nuers while President Kiir is an ethnic Dinka.


http://www.voanews.com/content/south-sudans-former-vp-mobilizing-youth-allegedly-for-attack/1819281.html

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
2. Tribal???
Sat Dec 28, 2013, 02:16 PM
Dec 2013

oh man. In this day and age we should be so far ahead of war, strife and tribal difference.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
5. What in the world gives you that idea?
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 01:08 AM
Dec 2013

I mean aside from a twee song by John Lennon.

Sadly, the world usually doesn't work the way we want it to, and instead we have to operate with the framework we have. Such as... people live in tribes. People have conflicts. Violence is easy. Things like this are just the state of the world, and while we can sit back and cluck our tongues, we also need to realize we're not any better; we just have different concepts of what makes a "tribe" and seem to believe that using flying robots to murder other tribes is somehow more acceptable than hitting them in the face with a machete.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
7. I don't think their is a difference between the robots and machetes.
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:24 PM
Dec 2013

I watched the tribal slaughter in Rwanda. I hate drones and unmanned flying, killing machines. We should be so very far past this. Take your framework and accept it. I will never accept our state of existence, because I am sure we're capable of peace or it wouldn't be in our vocabulary. Conflicts? Violence? No clucking here, just a fervent wish that one day they shall be no more. Call me an old idealist, I'm not ashamed. You can accept us as we are, I can't. I am trying to make myself better than that mentioned. No war, no killing over 'things', resources or land. White and black in this country is tribal. Always has been, hopefully we will move past color one day. I accept no negative aspects of being human, just wish we were more. I know we're not even close but that does not stop the desire to rid myself of these negative aspects. Lust, greed, avarice, hate, jealousy. All need to be put away.....good luck in your acceptance.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
8. I just know too much about our species, I suppose
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:43 PM
Dec 2013

We are a tribal animal. We're the descendants of tribal animals. We naturally divide our groups into "us" and "them." It's just the way we work, and I'm sad to say there's no way around it because the bottom line is that we are the products of biological processes that have favored tribalism since the late Pliocene, and fifty years of golly-goshing isn't going to sweep that away.

Especially when the golly-goshing is coming from people who are themselves riven with tribalism. Do you walk arm-in-arm with freepers? Nah, they're an "other." They're those people over there that aren't your people, and you avoid dealing with them. Do you walk up to strangers and treat them as if they were your sibling? probably not, because you don't know them - more tribalism. Do you identify by any ethnic group? Religious group? National identity?

Hell, here you are thumping your back about how superior you are, how high and elevated and magnificent you are compared to those people - not that you're even remotely close enough to their circumstances to make such a judgement. yet here you are. Secure in your smug self-assurance that you're just a better person overall. For all you know, if you were a Neur, living in south Sudan right now you might be in this group and you would likely feel you had a pretty fucking good reason to be there.

We're a tribal species. We define ourselves by groups. It's just the way we are. Ignoring that reality is just spinning your wheels in the sand, and outright denying that reality actually causes more problems.

It's especially imperative to understand this because of the direction we're headed right now. Energy crises are going to cause a decline of travel and communication, effectively making the world a larger place. At the same time, climate issues are going to spur human migrations - big ones. People will become more isolated, at the same time as disparate groups are butting over territory, provoking sharp distinctions of "us and them." If your interest is peace between peoples, it's necessary to realize that there even is such a "between." It's necessary to realize that for whatever reasons, people see each other as separate and often competing groups, and work within that framework for progressing.

Or you could keep telling the Dinka and Neur that there's no such thing as "Dinka" and "Neur" and see how far that gets you

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
10. everything you say here, IS TRUE
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 06:25 PM
Dec 2013

yet I don't have to accept that we have to stay in a tribal mentality. Anthropological Science, I feel is your basis for this discussion and it has merit. "Do I identify myself as any ethnic group"" I have been CLASSIFIED as belonging to a group of humans by other humans. My religion is universal. National identity? No, citizen of the world, presently residing in a particular country. Outside of this country I would be classified as a citizen of this particular country. I have found though that once national identity is inculcated into a person's psyche then he or she is in danger of losing their individuality because of 'leaders' telling us we are better than them. Hell the RW and Progressive ideological war in this country is a perfect example. I just don't really believe that we have to stay this way as one human species. Wanting, wishing to be able to walk up to a stranger and sincerely wish them peace is not anywhere close to your cynical 'golly goshing'. Yes we are tribal, have been for our total existence here. Although I can't believe that we humans came into existence as disparate tribes with different skin hues. Poor outlook, I think. Oh you 'dinka' over here, 'neur' over there and since you are separated you might as well try to take what the others have and while you're at it, kill as many of each other as you can.

No. I don't see it. When we started to put value on things and ideas, we started down the wrong path. My form of government is far better than yours, I like your countries mountain ranges as a barrier, I think I will claim them as our own for our government and citizens. Those islands there, they are mine, I don't care that your people have lived there since the beginning of time. Human history is an ocean of blood and strife because of tribal, religious and political reasons and those reasons are decided upon by very small groups of people. We have more gold and silver than you, but we want yours also, very valuable, we need your oil and a lie is told by a leadership cabal and war is engaged. Nothing to do with tribe. Energy crisis, smisis. Doesn't matter. I think the ramification(s) inherent in the global warming crisis just might make us have to depend on each other more, precisely because of the decline in global communication and travel by the 98%ers. If we end up even more divided and warlike, we deserve no less than extinction as a species. You are entitled to your opinion and I can't disagree with facts, historical and sociological. I'm still not ashamed to profess my wish that the human race starts striving for an evolutionary leap that will bode well for all of us no matter their station in life.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
11. Evolution is not Lamarkian
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 07:11 PM
Dec 2013

That is, we can't "wish" to evolve. Closest that could be accomplished is a specific breeding program... And whatever possible biological merits might be found in such an idea are very easily swept away by a tide of ethical counter-arguments.

We're naturally tribal, as I just pointed out. Evidence would seem to say that mammals cannot be social WITHOUT being tribal - we're not alone in this boat. It seems to stem from a combination of resource management and genetic propagation.

With that in mind, we are also inherently prone to conflicts, simply because we're individual creatures as well. Humans disagree on a lot of things; just as we're arguing right now. One can imagine this goes back pretty far as well.

Combine these two facets, and you get results like we see here in this story. Huymans disagree about something, and align along tribal lines to settle it out between them.

Now, just because these things are inevitable does not mean that things like war or armed conflict or the like are also inevitable; you're conflating things wrongly there. As the followup downthread makes the case for, conflicts can be defused by communication, social pressures, deals, any number of things. This is what I mean - peace can be obtained within the existing human framework of tribalism and conflict.

Think of it like this, since you're using America's race issue as an example - white peopel and black peopel are totally capable - as has been demonstrated for a long time - of living together peacefully, despite the conflicts that arise at times, all without forcing either to stop being the kind of people that they are.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
12. hmmm, interesting points.
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 06:34 PM
Dec 2013

yet, my wish in regard to evolutionary leaps go far beyond our human understanding of existence. You're using a flawed finite creature as your example of being stuck in a tribal mode at persistent war with one another as inevitable. Yeah, precedent is there. I hope for something outside the flawed human thinking and reasoning abilities. Like I mentioned earlier everything you say is true, yet with the infinite universe your, our, my understanding of our existence is flawed. You nor I can neither answer the question of why human beings inhabit this small ball of dirt or for what reason. To be tribes at war since the beginning of time? I sure hope not, otherwise their is no meaning to our existence except to see who the biggest dog is and who can collect the most bones. Nah! "all without forcing either to stop being the kind of people that they are". Clarification on kind of people. I thought we were all human beings, that is the connector/thought that can provide change from tribal to universal. I hope.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,817 posts)
6. South Sudan: White Army 'abandons war march' on Bor town
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:03 PM
Dec 2013
Thousands of South Sudanese youths - loyal to rebel leader Riek Machar - have abandoned their march on the strategic town of Bor, officials say.
...
But South Sudan's Information Minister, Michael Makuei Lueth, told the BBC on Sunday that Nuer community leaders in Jonglei state had persuaded the fighters to go home.

He said only a "small group" refused to disband, although an exact number was not known.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25543061


Good news, if correct.
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