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[MindMover]

This message was self-deleted by its author (MindMover) on Tue Dec 31, 2013, 07:46 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Jesus Malverde]

1. Should be crazy opening days...nt

[Prophet 451]

2. Been advocating this for years

This is how pot should be handled: Age-restricted but otherwise legal in the same way as booze.

[Lifelong Dem]

3. I don't know why it would be much different from medical marijuana states...

with dispensaries in place now.

[Jesus Malverde]

9. A lot of people don't like going to pot docs...

As far as selection once your through the door it's likely the same.

[Lifelong Dem]

15. Yeah, that would equal more customers for sure.

And like you said, the selection will be the same as medical. Maybe some would be more sativa leaning, where you really don't see that in medical grows.

[Comrade Grumpy]

16. Except for no doctor's recommendation needed.

All of the pot shops opening next week were already licensed as dispensaries. Those folks got first crack at the new legal weed business.

But seriously, if you want to transition from medical to adult legal, just take down the green crosses.

[joshcryer]

32. "Incense" has been legal in Colorado for a long time.

It won't be too much different from stores that sold "incense" there.

Except now we'll have something organic and not synthetic with dubious origins.

And it'll be able to be bought in 7-11.

[Sunlei]

4. tourism boom times for that state!

[pipoman]

5. For the last year.

Craigslist and all. .

[Sunlei]

14. yes, check out denver craigs list. Other states miss out on billions for their local econemy

http://denver.craigslist.org/search/?sort=rel&areaID=13&subAreaID=&query=marijuana&catAbb=hhh

......Nov 26 - Marijuana Grow Facility Space for Lease - $10500 / 9850ft² - (denver) office & commercial

Nov 29 - PERSON WITH MED MARIJUANA NEEDS HOME - (Denver area) apts wanted

Nov 16 - Looking for medical marijuana warehouse - $1500 / 1ft² - (denver area) real estate wanted

Dec 16 - Marijuana processing production business - $3000 / 15000ft² - (Western Washington) real estate - by broker

Dec 14 - Secure outdoor grow loc for A64 commercial production - $3500 / 220000ft² - (Southern Colorado) pic map office & commercial

Dec 14 - Grow space for dispensaries - $3500 / 217800ft² - (Colorado ) pic map real estate - by owner

Dec 28 - True organic production facility for commercial cannabis producers - $2499 / 217800ft² - (So Co) pic map office & commercial

Dec 27 - 20,000 sq ft hydroponic grow (building) - 20000ft² - (Denver) map office & commercial

Dec 17 - Turn-Key amendment 64 production facility - $9900 / 10000ft² - (2 hours south of Denver) pic map real estate - by owner

Dec 4 - MMJ Dispensary & Cultivation Space - MNC/OPC For SALE! - (Crested Butte) pic map office & commercial
....................

[pipoman]

62. check out "amendment 64" on CL

Denver Craigslist has been an open market for over a year .weed has been a phone call away delivered to your door. .A few busts but otherwise uninterrupted commerce

[Cha]

69. Surreal! I said down below..

"other states read it and weep"!

[William Seger]

84. Not just other states; most places in Colorado, too

The law says local governments can opt out, and Denver is one of only 19 municipalities and seven counties that have approved it so far. Colorado Springs could use a piece of that revenue, but the city council definitely won't be issuing any licenses. Next-door Manitou Springs is getting a lot of pressure not to allow any; they voted for a moratorium until the end of January and then will vote again.

[Cha]

85. Aha.. good to know, William Seger. Good ol Denver.. where I

was born and raised oh those many years ago.

So everyone who wants to chill will be coming to Denver?

[RainDog]

23. the states that are "first in" on legalization

will probably see the greatest benefit from the same.

and neighboring states that continue prohibition will likely see tourist dollars lost to the legal states. that's in the form of hotel rooms, restaurants, etc... not just for cannabis itself.

[joshcryer]

34. Colorado is even thought to steal about 1/3rd of pot sales from Mexico, too.

Since there's really no way to stop smuggling out of Colorado.

[RainDog]

36. Aren't neighboring states fussing about this?

The politician from Idaho who was talking about his borders with Washington State... wanted more money to enforce idiotic cannabis laws...

http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2021968307_mattironsideopedmarijuanadui05xml.html

Beware when crossing state’s borders after marijuana legalization

WHILE government agencies in Washington, Colorado and in D.C. ponder the impact of legalizing marijuana, a patchwork of changes are likely already in motion in the bordering states where rules didn’t change. A recent trip to Idaho left me with little doubt of that.

On Aug. 24, my wife and I were on Interstate 86 just outside of Pocatello, when an Idaho State Police vehicle pulled us over. It had been following us for roughly two miles.

When I saw the cruiser’s rollers light up behind me, I ran through the mental checklist: Speeding? Not even close. Taillight out? I checked them the night before. The tabs were up to date, so I was puzzled as to what it could be about. I had hesitated a bit on the lane change I’d just made, but it was so slight — a brief moment of indecision that caused my tire to cross the lane line. As it turns out, that’s all a curious trooper needs.

The officer’s first question was if I were driving impaired. The remainder of the conversation had to do with one thing and one thing only: marijuana.

[joshcryer]

37. Law enforcement is probably drooling at the prospect.

But I mean, it's completely and utterly unsustainable. What are you going to do? Arrest thousands of tourists? The lawsuits, the equal protection clause, it's all going to come crashing down so quick.

[RainDog]

39. that guy's experience in the article

read the link, if you didn't.

the Idaho police asked if he had EVER in his life smoked marijuana...if he had a dispensary card.

He was profiled because of his license plate.

I agree - they're on the losing side of an argument, especially now that Uruguay has broken international prohibition too. But this will be a "dangerous" time because of those afraid of such changes. This is always the case, across so many issues, it seems.

I wonder if we'll see any movement on the Congressional push to reschedule in 2014.

Democrats are probably hoping to use this issue to bring voters to the polls for midterms and siphon off some of the libertarian vote for candidates. So far, running as pro-legalization has been a winner for those pols who've done so.

[Comrade Grumpy]

38. You won't want to have Colorado plates driving east on I-80 in Nebraska or I-70 in Kansas.

You'll find yourself getting pulled over for, oh, I dunno, "going 76 in a 75 zone," or "weaving within the lane," or "following two closely" on an empty highway, or "failure to engage turn signal for full two seconds before changing lanes," or some other bullshit pretext.

Then you'll be asked to consent to a search of your vehicle. Then they scatter your stuff across the side of the highway.

Or you can refuse to consent. Then they detain you on the side of the highway for basically as long as they want until they can get a drug dog there. Which, of course, would never false alert because its handlers would never, ever, do anything like that.

That's what already happens to cars with California, Washington, Oregon plates.

[RainDog]

42. So, lots of profiling already?

reminds me of speed traps in small towns when you have to take the highway instead of the interstate.

[postatomic]

44. That's total bullshit

I've driven both this year with Colorado Plates. And I carry Flower. Use a Pen to puff in the Motel Room. And I drive 'fast'. I've talked to locals. They don't see a huge drug traffic out of Colorado because Colorado already has enough customers.

Please don't make assumptions like this. If you don't know what you are saying is FACT, then please reconsider your words.

[Comrade Grumpy]

58. Those state troopers are looking for you, whether you're aware of it or not.

Do a Google search for "nebraska state patrol colorado marijuana."

Do a Google search for "kansas state patrol colorado marijuana."

I would advise you to obey all traffic laws. And may the force be with you.

[joshcryer]

91. Here's an article on Nebraska:

Colorado's medical marijuana is headache for Nebraska law enforcement
High-grade medical marijuana, legal in Colorado, is “flooding” Nebraska where the drug remains illegal, according to law enforcement agencies. The impact is being seen, primarily in western counties, in the amount of staff time spent by narcotic enforcement officers, court cases, and on the market for marijuana across the state.

“Marijuana out of Colorado is having a local impact,” Sgt. Dana Korell of the Nebraska State Patrol told NET News. “It is flooding, just flooding the market place. It’s everywhere.” Korell coordinates the Western Intelligence Narcotics Group (WING) a law enforcement task force coordinating drug investigations with 11 panhandle counties.

Police from a number of law enforcement agencies in Nebraska report their investigators have been working extra hours and department resources are being diverted away from more serious drug problems, including methamphetamine.

“It’s just running us ragged,” Korell said. “What do we do? We have limited manpower. We’ve got limited financial resources to make buys. What do we want to focus on? It’s still a felony. It’s still a felony in Nebraska to possess more than a pound.”

Think about it. You live in Nebraska, you don't want to have to pay some crummy dealer to hook you up, so you and your friends scrounge up a bunch of dough to buy a pound of weed. Off you go to buy it legally and to return and dispense it amongst your friends.

This isn't the high risk you had before where you had to have a dealer, someone you trusted, and someone who could provide quality product. Quality product is easily acquired, legally, and you can transport it yourself.

I swear we'll be legal across the entire country in 5 years. It's just not sustainable now.

[Jesus Malverde]

79. This is affecting the neighboring states, check this out...

Man who says he was taking marijuana to help friend with cancer fined $4,000

A 52-year-old Colorado man who said he was hauling medical marijuana when he was pulled over in Nebraska has been fined $4,000.

The York News-Times reports that David LaRochelle pleaded guilty on Monday and was fined for possessing more than a pound of marijuana. Prosecutors had lowered the charge and dropped another in return for LaRochelle's plea.

LaRochelle was arrested July 25 after a Nebraska state trooper pulled him over for speeding. Nearly 7 pounds of pot was found in his vehicle.

LaRochelle, of Crestone, Colo., said in court Monday that he and a friend had opened a legal medical marijuana business in Colorado. LaRochelle said he was taking the marijuana found in his vehicle to another friend, in Omaha, who wanted some to help treat his cancer.

http://www.omaha.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20131120/NEWS/131129837/1707

As far as I know Nebraska does not have a medical marijuana defense. The judge however acted like there was a medical marijuana law and gave this guy a fine. Were this 5 years ago, I'm sure 7 pounds would get you some time in jail if not prison time.

[RainDog]

83. wow

that seems... unusual.

according to the NORML site, in Nebraska, up to a pound is a misdemeanor and over a pound is a felony with up to five years in prison and a 10k fine.

If he were selling, there's a mandatory minimum sentence - so saying he was or actually delivering for free got him out of that one. Judges have no discretion if the charge is something with a mandatory minimum sentence.

[joshcryer]

90. "It's like making a beer run."

[Comrade Grumpy]

95. They pop people carrying multi-pound loads on I-80 in Nebraska almost every day.

When I drive between Denver and eastern South Dakota, I only drive about 15 miles on I-80 in Nebraska. I get off in Oglalla and take Nebraska 61 through the Sand Hills and up the Pine Ridge. Ain't nothin' nor nobody on that road.

Small time possession is decriminalized in Nebraska, but they'll still steal your stash and make you pay a $300+ fine.

[joshcryer]

89. The bad thing in the short term are people behaving normally...

...but being caught with marijuana.

Think about it this way, you wouldn't even think twice about having a case of wine and driving over a state border, or even a couple of cartons of cigarettes.

But you might if you get lax and comfortable with being able to do that with an ounce of marijuana or even a few tonnes of hemp, in Colorado.

[loudsue]

6. Road trip!!! Yeee-haa!

Go west, young man!!

The new Gold RUSH!!!

[cosmicone]

7. Airline tickets to Denver will now cost more. n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

8. Remember kids...only six plants per person...

[tridim]

11. Including mothers and clones.

That particular rule will have to be fixed since politicians don't really understand how growing works.

Plants won't get that big in Denver, but I get your point.

[RainDog]

22. from what I've seen

people can grow cannabis "espalier" style, like fruit trees, so the lower branches receive as much light as the upper ones.

did you ever do that in your growing days?

[Buddyblazon]

66. It's a regularly used process in marijuana growing these days.

It's commonly referred to as "Sea of Green" (or SoG). You secure a tomato net (or something similar) horizontally at the level you want your canopy, and during the first three weeks of 12/12 (the "stretch" when the plant doubles to triples in size) you train it into trellis, opening up all the branches to receive light. You stop training when the "stretch" is over. From there you just let the flowers grow up out of the canopy.

I believe you're talking about training in a vertical manner as opposed to the horizontal one I suggest above. You can do that too. In fact, I've seen it used to great yields. In this type of grow, many time bare HID bulbs are dangled between the plants. Instead of generating a "footprint" of light, the bare bulb creates an "orb" of light, a much more efficient use of the HID bulb.

There's a thousand ways to skin that cat.

[RainDog]

67. interesting

I've seen where people have as many plants as the med mj law allows, then trim the stems under the canopy, but never seen the whole process.

I was talking about horiztonal for fruit trees, too. You get a much better yield per plant if you train fruit trees as horizontal espaliers and you keep the fruit at a level that's easy to pick. But people have used espaliers against walls and made "fences" from them, too, and those get taller. But they're perennials with woody stems, not an annual. I've never tried something like that with an annual.

[Buddyblazon]

65. As an owner of a grow store in Denver...

that is not true.

You can grow them as large as you want them given enough media and time. And no they don't grow slower here.

[tridim]

71. Is that new?

I wanted to grow thousands of legal clones when I was living in Denver and couldn't because I needed to have enough "patients" to justify the numbers, which was impossible (and pointless) under the medical law.

An yes, outdoor plants will be smaller in Denver due to the thin, dry air and shorter season. That's just nature.

[Lifelong Dem]

17. One down, five to go!

[Indyfan53]

19. That counts as just one, right?

[MindMover]

43. The first cannabis tree I have ever seen .... FANTABULOUS ....

[In_The_Wind]

57. Six plants is all we need.

[BadGimp]

10. it's like Christmas all over again

Ho ho ho cough wheeze

[ellie]

12. So excited!

I think I am going to go out on Wednesday to check it out.

[William Seger]

13. It'll be worse than Walmart on Black Friday

... but by January 2, I'm guessing the shelves will be empty.

[pipoman]

63. yep

The Craigslist sellers will be running nonstop. .i did see a pot dealer bust in downtown Denver last week so there is some enforcement going on. .

[otohara]

56. Have Fun

it's like going to a gourmet candy store.

So many choices and friendly employees.

[Indyfan53]

18. Hopefully, the chooming clouds will be so big...

it spreads across the state and makes people less gun crazy and violent.

Hopefully, people won't be too stoned to vote. Don't stay on the couch come election time!

[MindMover]

20. The vote has already happened and we won ....

[Indyfan53]

29. Don't sit out in 2014

This progress could be reversed if we don't vote.

[MindMover]

30. Not only do I not sit out but I bus, taxi, and drive voters to where they can vote ....

[Indyfan53]

46. We need more like you!

[MindMover]

47. One of our ways to express ourselves and ....

I want everyone of voting age to do just that ...

[Jesus Malverde]

77. awesome thanks!!..nt

[psychopomp]

50. Too bad Hunter Thompson didn't live to see this

I'd have enjoyed his reportage from Aspen on the events surrounding the launch of legal weed in Colorado!

[MindMover]

60. Absolutely ....

[eggplant]

21. I'm opening up a doritos store next door. Success is practically guaranteed. n/t

[Scurrilous]

28. ...

[SCVDem]

31. Can you drink outside a liquor store?

Same thing

The market is in smoke diffusers to hide the aroma in apartments.

[MindMover]

48. Vaporizers /.....

[SCVDem]

24. Not to be a party pooper

But this doesn't help the unemployed or anyone who needs to pass a drug screening.

The good shit stays in your system for up to 2 months. I know from personal experience.

For the rest of you, enjoy!

[MindMover]

26. When you work for yourself ... ain't nobody given you drug tests ...

[Comrade Grumpy]

40. There is some suggestion that Colorado employers are beginning to see the light.

And deciding it's not worth it to fire good employees for using a legal drug on their off time.

[Hotler]

82. One can only hope. And....

where did you hear or read that??????

[waddirum]

49. ymmv

But I'm generally clean after just 18 days. Use the home testing kit from the drug store.

[MADem]

51. If it's legal won't they have difficulty regulating it with tests?

There's a difference between being impaired and having residual material in one's system.

They will have to find a method to determine if someone is actually under the influence.

[Comrade Grumpy]

59. Employers can still fire at will. Some will say they have to because they get federal funds.

Others are finding it may not be worth it to fire a good employee for using a legal drug on his own time.

As for testing, I say test for impairment, not metabolites.

[MADem]

61. The laws will eventually have to be adjusted. It might not take place straight away

but eventually it will have to happen.

[Jesus Malverde]

80. 17 years after mmj in California. Employers can still drug test and do not need to honor prescriptio

It's messed up.

[MADem]

81. They don't "need" to but I'll bet most do.

That would be an expensive "test case" to be a party to, I should think--even a Big Box corporation.

That said, I agree with you, the whole system is messed up.

[onehandle]

25. Good. This will accelerate restrictions on public smoking of All kinds.

Moms will not look kindly on weed smoke blown into kid's faces on sidewalks, street corners, in doorways, and in parks.

I look forward to pot shops from coast to coast.

[MindMover]

27. Haven't you noticed, they are already here ...

they are called smoke shops and are in every mall on every corner of every town, city, metropolis in the USA ...

[Ohio Joe]

35. It is not legal to smoke in any of those places and the law is pretty strictly enforced.

A complete non-issue.

http://www.colorado.gov/marijuanainfodenver

[NoOneMan]

33. Cool. When is Washington going to be ready?

[Comrade Grumpy]

41. Stores will be opening by mid-year, I imagine.

[snowjob]

45. John Denver saw it coming.

Should be an interesting season on the slopes.

[Cha]

70. Rocky MOutain High?

[RKP5637]

52. And Kansas remains in the dark ages. Bordering Kansas is like having a bad

neighbor next door! Kansas, a good place to be from as in gone!

[MindMover]

53. Kansas was the last state to end prohibiting drinking on premises ... 1987

[RKP5637]

55. It's a real crap place and getting worse all of the time. IMO there are only a couple of

places that are somewhat tolerable, Lawrence and Manhattan, and Brownback does his best to destroy them too. I do hate to knock states, but Kansas is one that really deserves it. We all got the hell out, no wonder there is a brain drain and also some counties/cities/towns that have hardly any residents.

[workinclasszero]

73. New name for Kansas is...

Brownbackistan

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Brownbackistan

Brownbackistan: a pseudo-Christian fascist state where the arts are not publicly funded, women's reproductive rights are relentlessly attacked, public school funding is drastically cut, voter suppression laws make it nearly impossible for new voters to register to vote, and social services are turned over to evangelical "Christian" groups, all done with the backing of the Koch brothers.

Brownbackistan is a place where civil responsibility takes a back seat to religious intolerance and corporate greed.

[RKP5637]

74. Yes, this is an excellent summation of what Kansas is about! n/t

[workinclasszero]

75. Yes our own little american taliban hellhole

A freakish vision of what filthy rich feudal lords like the Koch bros want to do to the whole country with the help of paid stooges like Brownback, Cruz, Palin, etc.

[RKP5637]

76. And the universities the Koch bros fund, bending the idiology of students to

the Koch way of thinking.

[pipoman]

64. Kansas is nothing compared to Oklahoma

Or Texas when it comes to drug laws. .

[KansDem]

78. It is unfortunate...

Kansas used to be a progressive state, advancing women's suffrage and equal rights.

In 1867 the State Impartial Suffrage Association, led by Governor Crawford, Samuel Wood, and others, campaigned to convince the voters to ratify an amendment that would have granted equal suffrage to women and blacks in Kansas. In a circular issued by the executive committee, Wood called for "impartial suffrage, without regard to sex or color.

But the vote failed in 1867. After this defeat, women turned their attention toward efforts to gain the franchise in municipal elections. The Kansas Equal Suffrage Association led the suffrage campaign. Success in this area finally came early in 1887. In the April elections women captured several local offices. They won all five seats on the Syracuse city council, and Susanna Madora Salter of Argonia was the first woman in the nation to be elected mayor.

With the tide of reform running high during the first two decades of the 20th century, the campaign for woman's suffrage took on new life. On November 5, 1912, Kansas voters finally approved the Equal Suffrage Amendment to the state constitution. With the help of progressives like Republican Governor Walter R. Stubbs, Kansas became the eighth state to grant full suffrage to women.

After gaining equal suffrage through state action for themselves, Kansas women continued to work for a national suffrage amendment. Governor Capper lent his support to their crusade. The national suffrage movement continued through World War I. Finally, on August 8, 1920, the long fought for goal of a national woman's suffrage amendment was achieved. The states ratified the 19th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution. Governor Allen called a special session of the legislature so that Kansas could act quickly on this issue. Lawmakers ratified the amendment on June 16, less than two weeks after it was proposed by Congress.

--more--
http://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/women-s-suffrage/14524

When Kansas Territory was created in 1854, it quickly became the center of the nation's attention as people battled over whether the state would allow slavery within its borders. Some people came here to fight for a cause, but most were ordinary folks seeking new opportunities. Those who tried to remain neutral often had to choose sides, and individuals who stuck to their beliefs could become targets of violence in "Bleeding Kansas."

The Platts came to Kansas both for cheap land and the antislavery cause. As abolitionists, they supported the complete abolition (or abolishment) of slavery. Several Platt brothers came here from Illinois, settling in Wabaunsee County in 1856. There they actively aided slaves escaping to Canada or northern "free" states. The woman in this photograph could have been someone they helped to freedom. It wasn't uncommon for formerly enslaved people to stay in touch with their defenders, and the woman may have sent her photo to the family who helped her escape.

Aiding fugitive slaves was a federal crime under the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, punishable by six months in prison and a $1,000 fine. Still, thousands were assisted by whites and free blacks through the Underground Railroad, a secret system of people who helped formerly enslaved people escape.

--more--
http://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/women-and-the-underground-railroad/12242

What happened?

[RKP5637]

86. It is a shame! There are some very nice people in Kansas, but when it comes to

today's politics it is absolutely bizarre. It's like people fully disengage their brains before they vote. They just love to vote in very ugly and vile politicians. They seem to want to give themselves up to the Koch Brothers and the likes of the Brownback regime. It will be interesting to see what the next election brings.

Kansas should be a good study across the US when voters allow the takeover of their state by individuals, such as, the Koch Brothers, Brownback and his herd and the teabaggers.

As one person once said to me, it's like they think they are voting for Eisenhower republicans, they don't get it that the republican party has walked away from them and they are being used.

[7wo7rees]

54. I have friends in Colorado. I guess we all do now!

[Cha]

68. Other states read it and

weep!

[workinclasszero]

72. After Colorado starts raking in the money

and creating hundreds if not thousands of jobs related to legal pot, I expect many other states to follow their lead.

And its about damn time that a harmless plant is legal in an idiot world where alcohol and cigarettes are freely purchasable anywhere 24/7!



Alcohol linked to 75,000 U.S. deaths a year
Third leading cause of mortality, government study finds

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alcohol-linked-us-deaths-year/#.UsGGdrSNy_I


Cigarettes and Death

Cigarette smoking causes about one of every five deaths in the United States each year.1,6 Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause the following:1

More than 440,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
49,400 deaths per year from secondhand smoke exposure)
269,655 deaths annually among men (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
173,940 deaths annually among women (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/

And how many people died in 2012 of marijuana overdose or chronic use of marijuana? Yeah....

[joshcryer]

92. Also, we might see a decline in alcohol related deaths.

Which would also result in a net positive environmental or societal benefit.

[workinclasszero]

93. Hey didn't think of that

That could very well happen. Wouldn't that be great?

[Baclava]

87. How do I get one of them stockboy jobs?

and why aren't there college degrees in Marijuana Management?

[MindMover]

88. There will be soon enough ...

[Baclava]

94. "yeah mom - I just graduated with a Bachelors Degree in Marijuana Management!"

$20 a gram retail?

there's money to be made

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. Kick (nt)