Rand Paul announces suit against Obama administration over NSA

[Loaded Liberal Dem]

Source: CNN Website

(CNN) – Sen. Rand Paul said Wednesday he’s suing President Barack Obama and top national security officials over the government’s sweeping electronic surveillance program made public by intelligence leaker Edward Snowden.

The Kentucky Republican and the conservative group FreedomWorks are filing a class-action challenge against the government’s phone metadata collection effort, which stores the numbers and call times of phone calls.

“On behalf of myself, FreedomWorks and everyone in America that has a phone, we are filling suit against the President of the United States in defense of the Fourth Amendment,” Paul, a potential presidential contender, said at a news conference in Washington.

The suit also names National Intelligence Director James Clapper, outgoing NSA Director Keith Alexander, and FBI Director James Comey.

Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/12/rand-paul-announces-suit-against-obama-administration-over-nsa/

---

Odd, since Paul the Randy is an NSA, as in Non-Serious Asshole.

[heaven05]

1. fuck rand paul

[asjr]

2. Won't he also have to file suit against G W Bush.

Am I wrong in thinking Bush started it?

[Loaded Liberal Dem]

4. Randy Ayn probably "doesn't recall" Cheneybush's participation

[baldguy]

5. But Bush isn't a black guy.

Like Rand Paul, too many here are focused on blaming the black guy.

[24601]

17. Neither are Clapper or Alexander. It's to end the programs and purge the data. No former

President, not even Bush, has authority in these matters.

[Blue_Roses]

87. so true

Amazing how the color of one's skin changes everything. And I thought we were past this. Stupid me for believing that voting in a black president showed how far we've come. Not.

[pangaia]

28. Oh, stop blaming everything on Bush, will ya?

[Cha]

30. Poor bush.. leave bush alone. You're making his defenders cry.

No, you're not wrong.. but, fucking rand paul is making a big show now because you know, "Obama".

[giftedgirl77]

3. Fuck Rand Paul, that asshole will do anything

for attention.

[Gerhard28]

6. Please, all this talk about coitus with Rand Paul is grossing me out.

[Loaded Liberal Dem]

9. Amen

That's a mental image I can do without!

[giftedgirl77]

13. Sorry, it's a natural reaction whenever I hear about him.

[billhicks76]

38. Dumb comment

So if Rand Paul comes out for legalizing marijuana then you're going to curse him for that too? You should be blaming yourself and our party for letting him steal this issue away from us. Some people support anything as long as their candidate supports it and are against anything as long as the oppositions candidate ia for it. This is why we are in this ditch to begin with and decent people can't agree on anything positive. It's the old divide and conquer game that fools fall for and bankers excel at. Stop worshiping the cult of personality or focusing on the oppositions persona and get back to the facts because all you are doing is making it harder for us to change the system and address these crimes against the people. If Obama had done his job then Rand wouldn't have been able to co-opt this issue...and it's more than an issue...it's ruining our country. Where do you think all the anti-occupy data came from, or the leverage against politicians and journalists, or the inexplicable judges decisions etc etc. you see how big NSA headquarters is? Do you live in a vacuum? Behind the scenes the run all the rackets and it's people like you that allow it by trying to get people to take their eye off the ball. Totally pathetic. You support torture if Democrats allow it? You support illegal wars if Democrats allow it? You support private prisons when Democrats profit? Wake the hell up.

[SamKnause]

41. Tell it like it is !!!!

I disagree with Rand Paul 99% of the time.

He is right to go after the NSA and Clapper.

Give credit where credit is due.

[Arkana]

49. This isn't an issue, this is Rand being a prick.

And if you believe it's any more than that, you've been snowed.

[billhicks76]

54. What Planet Do You Live On???

NSA is a gigantic issue. You need to see the forest through the trees. Democrats would be going crazy on this issue but once again crimes against the people get excused because a democrat is at the helm. Are we that stupid? At this point the military industrial complex might just prefer Obama to Bush because Americans will just go along with the violations if a democrat is in charge. It's looking like Obama's BIGGEST accomplishment is indirectly neutering all anti-war opposition. Brilliant!!! I don't give a rats ass about Rands political maneuvering which by the way is outfoxing dormant democrats who stopped trying once they assumed change would happen at the executive level. He is stealing this issue and as far as I'm concerned it's people like you who are letting him get away with it and you are becoming, by default, Rand supporters. Shame on you. Please don't let him steal marijuana legalization or drug war and prison reforms as an issue too. You are giving votes away.

[Arkana]

76. Yeah, shame on me for not allowing Rand Paul's blatantly political motives

to cloud my mind into thinking that he actually does give a shit about this very legitimate issue.

[woo me with science]

85. What utterly juvenile logic.

Last edited Thu Feb 13, 2014, 10:09 PM - Edit history (2)

Actually, it's not logic at all, but a parroting of the cynical, slimy rhetoric authoritarians use to continue their predatory policies from administration to administration, no matter which party is in charge.

If they can convince people to rally around vicious assaults on the Constitution, just because someone of another party might be speaking *against* those assaults, they can guarantee that people will NEVER unite against their predation.

Fortunately, this blatant manipulation does not work anymore and is receiving the scorn it deserves. It is the equivalent of trying to argue that, if Rand Paul spoke out against drowning puppies, we Democrats should all go out and buy burlap sacks and a mess of rope.



Clearly the original goal of this talking point you have just repeated is not to convince anyone of anything, but to pollute and divert discussions about how to rein in the NSA with absurd vitriol, instead. The constant smear routine and attempts to justify trashing our Constitution are stale at this point and remain beneath contempt.


----------------------------------------------------------------
*While refusing the predictable bid to extend this subthread and dilute the important points here, I nevertheless do want to draw attention to the absolute perfection of irony in the huffy reply that follows this post. While attempting to mock the suggestion that the corporate talking points being used here are authoritarian, the poster, apparently with a straight face, makes the stunning, jaw-dropping assertion that *not embarrassing the President* takes priority over reining in the criminal, Constitution-shredding NSA.

Now THAT is authoritarian logic by definition.

DU slaps down slimy, shameless propaganda tactic (377 recs)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023481874

.

[Arkana]

86. Yep, you got me. I'm just an authoritarian goose-stepper goin' along

to get along. I should be cheering on Rand Paul! After all, he TOTALLY gives a shit about this issue and isn't doing to embarrass the President or further his own political ambitions at all! Right?

...right?

You people who ascribe such noble motive to Rand fucking Paul are the ones who make me want to puke. Get over yourself.

[Blue_Roses]

88. thank-you!

and well said!

[JDPriestly]

65. Democrats are losing ground as the defenders of human rights.

The US is only #32 out of 179 in a ranking of countries based on their respect for freedom of the press according to Reporters Without Borders.

http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html

Corrected 176 to 179 countries.

[woo me with science]

73. Excellent post. nt

[SamKnause]

7. Good for him !!!!

How sad that a Libertarian is doing this instead of a Democratic or Progressive politician.

The citizens of the U.S. should have a class action lawsuit against the NSA.

He would never get my vote, but I am glad someone is stepping up to the plate.

[Gerhard28]

11. Agreed.

He would never get my vote because of his position on other issues, e.g., destroying all the gains of the working class in the last 100 years.

But he's not wrong about everything. He's right on this issue.

[Cha]

32. Yeah, you rand paul suckers have ken cuccinelli on board too. Yipee

"Ken Cuccinelli, a former Republican attorney general in Virginia who lost the state’s gubernatorial election last November, is serving as lead counsel. Cuccinelli predicted the lawsuit will pan out over several years." You know, mr ultrastupidsound

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/12/rand-paul-announces-suit-against-obama-administration-over-nsa/

[SamKnause]

37. I am not a Rand Paul sucker.

He is a libertarian, I am a Socialist.

We could not be further apart.

I give credit where credit is due.

The NSA needs to be sued out of existence.

Clapper should be charged with perjury.

If it makes you feel good to accuse people unjustly, have at it.

[Cha]

43. Rand Paul deserves no credit.. "Lawyer accuses Rand Paul of plagiarizing lawsuit against NSA."

rand paul is a tool and he's playin you..

This. Is. Awesome. That lawsuit Sen. Rand Paul filed against the NSA? The person who wrote it says that Rand Paul and Ken Cuccinelli plagiarized it, and he's ticked.

Since December, the libertarian lawmaker, a tea party favorite, had been working with former Reagan administration lawyer Bruce Fein to draft a class-action suit seeking to have the National Security Agency’s surveillance of telephone data declared unconstitutional; the two men appeared together as early as last June to denounce the NSA’s activities.

But when Paul filed his suit at the U.S. District Court in Washington on Wednesday morning, Fein’s name had been replaced with that of Ken Cuccinelli, the failed Republican gubernatorial candidate in Virginia who until last month had been the state’s attorney general. <...>

Fein, who has not been paid for his legal work by Paul’s political action committee, was furious that he had been omitted from the filing he wrote.

Veeery ticked:

Ken Cuccinelli stole the suit,” (spokeswoman Mattie Fein) said, adding that Paul, who “already has one plagiarism issue, now has a lawyer who just takes another lawyer’s work product.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4490662

Assholes can fight it out.

[SamKnause]

46. If he keeps the country focused on this issue he deserves some credit.

I really do not understand why U.S. citizens think it is perfectly fine that our government is spying on us and the rest of the world.

I really do not understand why U.S. citizens think it was fine that Clapper lied.

I am sick of the lies and deceit.

I don't care if it was Godzilla that was suing the NSA.

Godzilla would get my support on this issue.

I despise Rand Paul and the entire Tea Party.

He is not playing me and you are rude for not apologizing for your accusations.

[baldguy]

70. Rand Paul wants the country focused on Rand Paul.

He's received a ton of publicity, and will get a pile of cash to attack Democrats in the next election, and if he can lure a few stupid, misguided & uninformed progressives over to his side, so much the better. That will just help him & his cohorts finally destroy the progressive movement in America once and for all.

[SamKnause]

72. He could never lure me over to his side.

If you are insinuating that I am uninformed, you are so very incorrect.

Eric Holder, Rahm Emanuel, and President Obama have intentionally damaged the progressive movement.

There are no progressive movements that are not squashed in their infancy.

Time after time they are marginalized.

When the Democratic party is the one doing the marginalizing, it seems everyone just goes along.

[baldguy]

84. "Eric Holder, Rahm Emanuel, & President Obama have intentionally damaged the progressive movement."

Last edited Thu Feb 13, 2014, 07:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Tell that to the millions of Americans who now health insurance & can get health care who couldn't before.

Tell that to the federal employees & members of the military who can finally acknowledge their loved ones & life partners who couldn't before.

Tell that to the soldiers who were in Iraq & Afghanistan WAY too long before.

Tell that to the millions of auto workers who were going to be without a job & out on the street before.

Tell that the the millions of college students who now get loans directly from the federal govt, where they had to deal with usurious private banks before.

If you think Obama & his people have "intentionally damaged the progressive movement", and that fascist jackasses like Rand Paul would do any better, you're fucking delusional.

[Blue_Roses]

89. thank-you!

Well said!

[jenmito]

56. He plagiarized the LAWYER he worked with??? VERY bad move.

Great catch, Cha!

[Cha]

57. ProSense has it, jenmito.. A Typical Idiotic Rand Paul move..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4490662

[jenmito]

59. Oh. OK, thanks...

still-good catch of ProSense's catch!

[Cha]

60. Oh yeah, I was all over

that!

[jenmito]

62. ...

You crazy. :-D

[woo me with science]

74. Well said. nt

[Puzzledtraveller]

83. I agree

[Uben]

8. Narcissitic little twerp

That's all he is. He is nothing but a mouth. I can't believe there are idiots stupid enough to vote for this poor excuse of a human being. He is just grandstanding for attention to satisfy his narcissism. That is all I have ever seen him do.

[OKNancy]

10. Ken Cuccinelli

From the article:
Ken Cuccinelli, a former Republican attorney general in Virginia who lost the state’s gubernatorial election last November, is serving as lead counsel. Cuccinelli predicted the lawsuit will pan out over several years.

[Cha]

33. thanks Nancy.. I didn't go to the link but that's good to know.

[EC]

12. Isn't changing the NSA

kinda his job? Doesn't the law have to be changed by Congress for President Obama to sign?

[JoePhilly]

14. That wouldn't get him a press conference, or campaign donations.

[baldguy]

22. Or praise from misguided & uninformed progressives.

[24601]

31. The law, when constitutional, sets the limits. The direction comes from the President through

the SECDEF and DNI.

[mostlyconfused]

61. But what makes you think Obama would sign it?

[EC]

64. Really?.... n/t

[mostlyconfused]

66. Really

I don't think he or Holder have wavered from their position that what the NSA is doing is totally necessary and justified. Have they?

[EC]

81. I seem to remember a whole speech

on having the NSA reviewed and stopping of overreach. So yeah, I think they have given it thought and do want to make it less intrusive.

[Android3.14]

15. I wish the Dems had stepped up on this one

Teir silence makes them appear weak and untrustworthy. Any candidate that supports the domestic spying program loses my vote.

[They_Live]

20. It is their duty to "step up"

or I find them culpable. Dontcha think?

[Android3.14]

23. Yup

eom

[billhicks76]

25. Agreed

And all our fellow spineless commenters here who can't get over themselves and partisan bickering ate doing our cause a disservice. This is karma for not doing our jobs and ending this attack on America. They are turning our country into one big prison camp and all people can do is whine about Rand Paul taking advantage of our idiotic apathy and lack of action? NSA is the biggest threat to America and they do the bidding of the worst corporate offenders.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Goofy asshole. I will reluctantly root for the NSA in this one. I hope they have pics of him with a

donkey in lingerie.

Fuck Rand Paul.

[Maedhros]

19. That is the most intensely stupid post I have witnessed in some time.

Supporting warrantless surveillance of innocent Americans just to spite Rand Paul? If he was suing to end torture at Gitmo would you support that as well? Are you going to start campaigning against funding for AIDS prevention in Africa because George Bush provided it?

Keep your eye on the ball - protecting civil rights - rather than allowing partisan indoctrination to trick you into siding with real pieces of shit like Clapper and Alexander..

[baldguy]

24. But it's perfectly correct & proper to side with a real piece of shit like Rand Paul instead?

Talk about stupid posts....

[billhicks76]

29. Offensive

You are doing the bidding of republicans and the NSA with the garbage you post. You must know this. How about doing something to stop the surveillance which leads to corporate strangleholds on our freedom through incarceration, blackmail and total control. How sad that you let a rethuglicans game you on this issue. We are letting a republican spearhead thus crime against the United States? What a failure.

[baldguy]

42. What's offensive is misguided & uninformed progressives voicing praise for this POS Rand Paul.

It's the Republican Rand Paul "gaming" these stupid so-called progressives. And you know what he'll do with their support? Not anything with the NSA. What he'll do with this "progressive" support is try to destroy every progressive idea that America has ever had.

My standing up and pointing out that a Republican piece of shit is, in fact a Republican piece of shit is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of "doing the bidding of republicans".

[billhicks76]

47. Dude!

You did not convince me. I'm concerned with issues more than people who serve as distractions. I am not afraid of Rand Paul. I disagree with him on almost every issue. But this and the drug war which are related since NSAs biggest division, SOD, is their DEA funnel which is targeting everyday Americans every single day. It's a disgusting war on the people that you shoud be more concerned about and it's pathetic that we let a republican steal this issue so as to not ruffle feathers of our fearful leader. He wanted to be president...twice...so if he is afraid of being taken out by the military/homelandsecurity industrial complex then he should've let someone braver have the job. And you are doing progressives a disservice but that's just my opinion. Please don't let Rand steal marijuana legalization too. Between that and NSA he could siphon off enough votes to guarantee republican victories. Get real.

[baldguy]

53. When I post in threads about how much I love my dog, and oppose animal abuse

I try to avoid the fact the Adolf Hitler also loved dogs. Because it would defeat my argument.

Likewise with supposed progressives saying anything at all positive about the likes of Rand Paul.

(And yes, I am comparing Rand Paul to Adolf Hitler. The only difference between them is opportunity.)

[billhicks76]

55. Hitler?

Not to be argumentative for its own sake but my family was mostly annihilated in genocide and you are grossly mistaken if you think Rand Paul is anything close. I do not fear this man who seems more like a bumbling opportunist than anything else. My advice is to steal the constitutional freedom based issues back from him or to let it go. It's the issues that matter...anyone could replace him on the issues and will if he backs off. It's pathetic that he is the one raising his voice on this and I could care less what person does it. Like I said, you are handing votes to Rand Paul by allowing him to co-opt one of the biggest issues of our time unless you actually want to live in a world like George Orwell's 1984.

[baldguy]

71. Hitler in 1923 wasn't anything like Hitler in 1940, was he?

All that he needed was opportunity. Same with Rand Paul. I'm not "allowing" him to co-opt this issue. The so-called progressives who are Rand Paul sycophants are by giving him support.

[Maedhros]

36. I don't have you on ignore?

There - fixed it.

[baldguy]

45. Poor baby. Can't handle having the truth told to you.

The fact remains: Rand Paul is a piece of shit Republican.

[JoeyT]

63. It's funny to see the guilt by association tactic hauled out so often by people that are

on the same side as George Bush and Dick Cheney. It doesn't bother you just a little bit that you're siding with war criminals? Actual responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people war criminals?

[baldguy]

69. Then why isn't Rand Paul suing them?

Why doesn't he do what a Senator is supposed to do and introduce legislation to repeal the Patriot Act?

Because he's grandstanding. Rand Paul really doesn't give a flying fuck about the NSA, and he supports the war criminals from the previous regime. This lawsuit is just a stunt whose objective is to weaken the President, weaken support for all of the Presidents policies and programs, & to suck a little money out of drooling morons who believe him. Nothing will ever come of it. But he's received a ton of publicity, and will get a pile of cash to attack Democrats in the next election, and if he can lure a few stupid, misguided & uninformed progressives over to his side, so much the better. That will just help him & his cohorts finally destroy the progressive movement in America once and for all.

And you support him in this.

Guilt by association? Bullshit! What you're trying to do is called projection: a typical RW debate tactic to shift the blame from where it actually lies - WITH THE REPUBLICAN FASCISTS - and put it onto a popularly-elected, Democratic, center-left President who has done more for the progressive movement in America than anyone in the last 40 yrs & who the Rand Paul sycophants on DU usually say they agree with 90% of the time.

But their words attacking the President put the lie to that claim, when they're ready to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater & support the Republicans move toward impeachment over this (or literally anything else they can pin on him), which will end all the progress that's been made over the last 6 yrs and repeal all of the progressive policies this administration has signed into law.

Which really just helps Rand Paul and the Republicans, doesn't it? And these are the Republicans you support.

[billhicks76]

26. Agreed

These people should spend their vitriol against the prison state rather than defending NSA. What a joke. I don't like Rand but he's better than the other rethuglicans just for his stance on this.

[woo me with science]

75. Every time you think the propaganda machine can't embarrass itself further...

[Ikonoklast]

78. They have a special on Sarcasm Detectors at Amazon this month.

And if you actually think the NSA gives two shits about a flea like Rand Paul, Chris Christie wants to talk to you about a bridge.

[Maedhros]

82. If it was sarcasm, I apologize for my derisive post.

The sarcasm smilie - - is your friend in these instances.

[blkmusclmachine]

18. Paul: The NSA doesn't go far enough!!!

[They_Live]

21. Is that a quote?

is it in this article? I didn't see it.

Not a Rand Paul fan myself, just wondering.

[Mz Pip]

27. Does Randy even understand how the govt works?

Congress put all this NSA stuff in place when they passed the Patriot Act.

Maybe he could do something useful and write a bill repealing the Patriot Act.

[Cha]

35. Maybe he does Maybe he doesn't but the important thing is he makes a big ol

grandstanding show of it and blame it on Obama.

[Enrique]

67. Paul has opposed the Patriot act all along

a bill to repeal is not necessary to end it, the act has to be renewed and Congress can end it by not renewing it. Last time around, I believe Rand Paul was the only Senator to vote against renewal. Since Russ Feingold left the Senate, Rand Paul, like him or not(and I don't), is the leading voice against the Patriot Act.

[TheMathieu]

34. That's all I need to know about where I stand on the NSA.

When in doubt, take the opposite position of the far right.

[TheKentuckian]

77. Dick Cheney isn't far right now? The ACLU is arch conservative now? How about thinking for yourself?

The NSA and the Patriot Act are far right machinations! Don't be dense.

[questionseverything]

39. this worries me on so many levels

first of all it should be dems standing up to defend the Constitution

second I do not trust these two to present a good case and if SC rules wrong it will be more difficult than ever regaining our rights

thirdly...we might lose the senate over it

[trublu992]

40. It'll be interesting to see how far he's going to go with this

My guess is just enough to make a big headline and cause trouble but Rand Paul is really not that angry about the NSA.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

44. PLAGIARIZED lawsuit. So funny and so perfectly Rand Paul.

Lawyer accuses Rand Paul of plagiarizing lawsuit against NSA. No, really.

Since December, the libertarian lawmaker, a tea party favorite, had been working with former Reagan administration lawyer Bruce Fein to draft a class-action suit seeking to have the National Security Agency’s surveillance of telephone data declared unconstitutional; the two men appeared together as early as last June to denounce the NSA’s activities.

But when Paul filed his suit at the U.S. District Court in Washington on Wednesday morning, Fein’s name had been replaced with that of Ken Cuccinelli, the failed Republican gubernatorial candidate in Virginia who until last month had been the state’s attorney general. [...]

Fein, who has not been paid for his legal work by Paul’s political action committee, was furious that he had been omitted from the filing he wrote.

[Beacool]

48. I don't know which one I'm more tired of, if Rand or Ted Cruz.

Tea Party voters owe the rest of the country for the nut jobs they have saddled the nation with in Congress.

[davidpdx]

50. He's gathering zip codes and email addresses

Ah, a front for his presidential campaign.

[aquart]

51. Who is paying for his lawyers?

[muntrv]

52. Rand, you also need to sue Bush/Cheney, since they were the ones who started the program.

[fujiyama]

58. Cool story, Rand.

This strikes me as a meaningless publicity stunt. It's a nice way to get some attention but it accomplishes, well...absolutely nothing.

If he's serious about this (and I have little reason to believe he's serious or sincere about anything), he'd team up with Wyden and Sanders and they'd really go about trying to get some accountability in place with regards to the NSA.

[SkatmanRoth]

68. I hope the Koch brothers are bankrolling this to the end

It is nice to see the shadow conservative money bags wasting millions of dollars on a suit they are going to lose.

[wordpix]

79. still trying to get Pres. O impeached

THAT's what this is about, not "everyone with a phone."

[rock]

80. Fuck Aynal Rand Paul

And I don't mean in the nice way.