President Museveni Signs the "Kill the Gays" Bill Into Law

[blkmusclmachine]

Source: CNN.com

(CNN) -- Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni signed into law Monday a bill that criminalizes homosexuality...Homosexual acts are illegal in Uganda. The law toughens the penalties, including life imprisonment...The United States and Britain are among Uganda's largest donors.



Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/24/world/africa/uganda-anti-gay-bill/

---

Uganda’s "Kill the Gays" bill imposes lifetime imprisonment for conviction of homosexuality, lifetime imprisonment for entering into a same-sex marriage, 7 years imprisonment for conducting a same-sex marriage, 7 years imprisonment for advocacy by or on behalf of LGBT people, 5 years imprisonment for providing housing to LGBT people, and 7 years imprisonment for providing services to LGBT people.

[RKP5637]

1. Why the fuck do we send money to Uganda is beyond me. Is this what the US wants and supports?

If I were TPTB I would cut ALL funding to a shit hole like Uganda.

[azurnoir]

2. unfortunately much of the USaid that goes to Uganda is for food and health programs

especially maternal and child health and nutrition, and myself I can not get behind kicking those kinds of programs to the curb, as the ones who would suffer are NOT the ones implementing these horrible laws

[avebury]

3. If we cannot prove for a fact that the money actually gets

to the intended people then I would have no problem with cutting off the aid. We should impost an embargo on anything that is not direct act to the people.

[azurnoir]

4. here judge for yourself

http://www.usaid.gov/uganda

[avebury]

6. Pretty pictures. I would rather hear from an indpendent

observer that the aid is actually received by those in need. The pictures seem rather sanitized.

[azurnoir]

12. so your for suspending child and maternal aid until

it's proven that every penny being used properly?

[avebury]

13. It is not too much to expect that we receive

confirmation that foreign is going to the needy and not into the pockets of the local politicos. This kind of independent confirmation should already be available. There have been too many instances in the past where foreign aid did not get to the intended target but ended up with people in the relative governments. If we have not been been getting verification on receipt all along then the checks and balances process is broken.

[azurnoir]

15. the clinics seem to run by 'Westerners" but I suppose that's not enough ETA

however the let's cut or with hold food and/or medical aid until we can be sure 'they' aren't using it improperly is a common enough meme

there is some aid that could be cut that for security and for democracy and governance can easily be cut off

http://results.usaid.gov/uganda#fy2012

[theHandpuppet]

56. A lot of that money was sent for AIDS/HIV programs

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/world/africa/in-uganda-an-aids-success-story-comes-undone.html?_r=0

But if you imprison anyone who is gay, works with gays, provides services, advocacy or housing for LGBTs, then the whole program is undermined. People will be terrified to take advantage of the aid offered and that's what this is about. Whether or not a person is LGBT, the perception alone will keep people from seeking medical help.

[azurnoir]

57. so you're saying it makes no difference withhold money anyway?

okay except for one thing I've worked in OB/GYN clinics in the US where virtually all of the HIV positive patients are African women who were infected by their partners-I'm not sure that in Africa HIV is considered a 'Gay disease' quite like it seems to be in the West, no matter how inaccurate that is, albeit the Rightwing Christians who endorsed this disgusting law might also push that viewpoint

[theHandpuppet]

58. I'm not sure how you interpreted my post

What I'm saying is that ALL Ugandans will suffer because of the new anti-gay laws because they will be afraid to seek treatment. Doesn't matter if they're gay or straight, male or female, if there's the slightest whiff of suspicion cast either on themselves or their loved ones, they won't seek treatment. In many countries in Africa HIV/AIDs is considered a gay disease. Facts don't matter.

[azurnoir]

59. That much is true all Ugandans will suffer because of this law

and to be honest I wasn't sure how to interpret your comment

[theHandpuppet]

60. My fear is that in countries like Nigeria, Uganda and Cameroon...

... there will be an explosion of HIV/AIDS that will affect the health of, impoverish and/or kill millions who are afraid to seek treatment. Women, men, children. And people who do not seek treatment for HIV/AIDS are also likely to die from diseases such as malaria because their immune systems are compromised. This is one of the most insidious outcomes of the anti-gay laws. These countries are condemning millions of their citizens to death from sheer ignorance and hatred.

[azurnoir]

61. The explosion has already happened

I've read that in some African countries the HIV infection rate is near 50% of the adult population, that said this law will also negatively impact HIV prevention programs because according to the Rightist 'thought' process if you're not Gay why do you need to protect yourself from HIV

[theHandpuppet]

62. Exactly.

That IS the thought process. They think by committing genocide against LGBTs (or at least, by imprisoning them for life) they will solve their HIV/AIDS problem. That kind of ignorance will cost millions of lives.

[azurnoir]

63. another thought I wonder what means of identifiation clinics in Uganda use

will the government now raid clinics that treat HIV patients and use the clinics records to make arrests I seriously doubt that there are HIPPA type laws in Uganda

[theHandpuppet]

65. Sadly I suspect you are right

The genocide will now commence.

[Scootaloo]

77. It's BEEN commencing

This is just the newest page in the chapter.

The west did not give a shit about hte disease until white people started dying from it. And now the search is underway for a cure... that only the wealthy will be able to afford, by design.

I'm not sure of "genocide" is quite the right word here... but letting millions die through intentional negligence sure as fuck is something in that neighborhood!

[theHandpuppet]

64. One other thing I should have added

It is because of that twisted logic that one of the simplest ways to reduce HIV/AIDs becomes problematic. If you live in a country where the majority religions reject contraception, there should be no need for condoms, right? Men especially don't want to be seen accepting condoms, as it might arouse suspicions that they are having gay sex. It's tragic. In some countries the more effective way to disburse condoms has been by giving them away to women, who in turn give them to their male partners. Women are more likely to accept them not because they suspect their partners are having gay sex but because they really want to limit the size of their families. In any case, it works. That is, if you have a charity willing to disburse condoms in the first place.

[azurnoir]

66. True that and it should be noted that antiGay and antiWomen go hand and hand

they're made of the same stuff
What is also very sad is that at least from my observations and what I've read on the subject for a woman diagnosed as HIV positive early on in pregnancy treatment with AZT has a very positive outcome, the babies are born HIV negative and I've seen women who have become pregnant several times after being diagnosed and as long as treatment was started in the first trimester or very early in the second the babies were born HIV negative

[bitchkitty]

76. What azurnoir said.

Transmission in Africa has been mainly by heterosexuals, from what I understand.

[theHandpuppet]

80. As I recall, the largest rise in the number of cases has been among heterosexual women

It's been a while since I've reviewed the actual figures. But of course it's so much easier for the govt to fan the flames of ignorance and hysteria by telling the people that if they imprison or kill all LGBTs they'll eliminate HIV/AIDS.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. That's not the aid that should be cut. Cut the military aid.

" Beginning in the 1990s, the United States has built the capacity of Museveni’s Uganda People’s Defence Force so it could be counted on to help stabilize difficult situations throughout Central and East Africa.

Ugandan troops were the first foreign forces to deploy in 2007 under the African Union Mission in Somalia, known as AMISOM, to combat insurgents linked to al Qaida. The U.S. has contributed more than $300 million to the AMISOM mission, according to the State Department, some of which is allocated directly to the Ugandan forces.

Moreover, U.S. and Ugandan military officials are working directly to hunt down Joseph Kony, who’s been internationally indicted on war crimes charges in connection with atrocities in many parts of Central Africa.
If the U.S wants to influence events in Uganda, experts said, funding cuts for these military partnerships need to be under consideration."

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/17/4830575/close-uganda-ties-may-limit-what.html

[azurnoir]

25. well you see I have no problem with that or the items I mentioned such as aid for democracy

I'm speaking solely of aid for food and health programs

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Actually you were leaving out the military aid and claiming it was all food

and medicine for children, an omission that I have corrected.

[azurnoir]

39. no I mentioned aid that went to security that would also be military aid

or are you saying my omission was somehow on purpose? A secret way of promoting Uganda's antiGay laws that I thought I could slip past with

see here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014736849#post15

[Scruffy Rumbler]

33. If they are killing and imprisoning people, people like me....

my mother, my brother, uncle, sister, niece.... Ya, I am ok with suspending aid, any and all aid.

[azurnoir]

34. so you are actually saying children should die in the name of Gay Rights? ETA

explain how that helps to promote Gay Rights because I can tell you how the other side could seize this to promote further pogroms against Gays

perhaps you should read further down because my comment applied only to aid for nutrition and health programs and really I do not see how denying that will help anything

[Scruffy Rumbler]

41. Sorry, I knew I was gay at a very young age. I was a child. And children do die for gay rights...

Ask every GLBT youth that committed suicide or was killed for being GLBT. Oh that's right, they died. Because they were Gay?Right?


There are gay children out there. And Uganda, the government and the people are ok killing and imprisoning me, and others like me....

When a community is ok with chasing me down and killing, beating or imprisoning me... ya, I am ok with cutting their aid!

"because I can tell you how the other side could seize this to promote further pogroms against Gays"....it seems like they are doing that right now and we are still feeding their families.... good on ya. They have all the reasons they need... God said so!


Instead of going after me for stating my opinion, that isn't going to change anything..... why don't you go explain it to the good christians perpetrating all the abuse in the first place why they are wrong.


*Edit to add: Let Feed the Children and the other private christian charities feed them. That's what they want for the rest of us. Our government out of the act of giving aid to it's own citizens and turning it over to private charity via the churches.

[azurnoir]

46. Because the 'good Christians' are not going to listen to me

and I know one of my sisters converted and became one of those Christians, better to use an opportunity like aid to promote greater acceptance than as a punitive measure

[Scruffy Rumbler]

47. Ya, well...

I have been waiting a long time for that greater acceptance. I have watched first hand how well that has worked.... it hasn't when lives are in the balance.

[azurnoir]

50. That may well be so and I understand what you're saying

however creating yet more suffering especially among those who are innocent does nothing but create more suffering

[AllTooEasy]

67. Bullshit!

Nobody(straight or gay, black or white, child or adult) should ever starve or suffer severe illness for LBGT, female, racial, religious, or ethnic rights.

I'm Black. You can't convince me that any past or future advancement of racial equality is worth the death of one White child. Not to mention, it's counterproductive and never leads to any positive results for the oppressed. That wasn't Dr. King's strategy, and shouldn't be yours.

My Brother is gay. I told him about your comment and he said that you and Uganda's gov't should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves. I would post the other things he called you, but the DU moderators would delete my post.

I know Blacks like you "As long as our struggle improves, screw the Undocumented, gays, poor(er), unions, non-Christian, and other demographics". They are called Black Republicans.

GOProud member?

[Scruffy Rumbler]

75. "Sen. Patrick Leahy proposes freezing aid to Uganda aid for enacting anti-LGBT law"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014738664

[Scootaloo]

78. I'll go after you for your opinion because your opinion is shit

Where the fuck do you get off on the notion that it's okay to sentence children to suffer and die because of something the government of the state they happen to live in decided to do? Do you think they voted for it? Many four year-olds campaigning in the streets of Kampala for this measure? You think some kid curling up and dying of cholera is going to end up helping gay people in Uganda?

More likely, you just don't give a flying fuck, because you are a white, affluent, American jackass who has the privilege of posting to the internet how little they value the life of a child who had the temerity to not be born a white affluent American jackass.

What, do you want a fist bump? A pat on the back? A hearty "+1"? Maybe you're hoping others will re-tweet your bold stance made from the comfort of your heated computer room where you sit on your ass without having to ever fucking worry about when the plasmodium hiding in your liver is going to decide to go on a rampage again. How fortunate for you! Would you like some cheetohs to cram in your mouth while you pontificate with your defecator?

You're pissed about this decision... GOOD, it's a thing we're all pissed about. It's beyond barbarism. But your proposed "response" is absolutely no better on any level. None. If it made you feel good to type that shit out, and post several defenses of it, well... I can tell you right now that human life and dignity isn't nearly as important to you as you are trying to convince us it is.

[Scruffy Rumbler]

82. OH MY GOD!!!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So your fine with the killing of queers as long as women and children get fed. Got it. So you pick which people you will kill first and I will pick the ones I want to save.

I don't want no fist bump from you.... or anything else.

As to me being," e a white, affluent, American jackass who has the privilege of posting to the internet how little they value the life of a child who had the temerity to not be born a white affluent American jackass. " it seems I am, not alone ...you might want to check out the thread titled:

"Sen. Patrick Leahy proposes freezing aid to Uganda aid for enacting anti-LGBT law...

Sooooo any who. Thanks for such a sweet missive....

[Scootaloo]

83. They don't grow 'em very bright where you're from, do they?

So your fine with the killing of queers as long as women and children get fed. Got it. So you pick which people you will kill first and I will pick the ones I want to save.

Yes, I'm so okay with it that i said I'm pissed about it, and that it's beyond barbaric and should be opposed by everyone. Hurp-uh-durp, makes sense to me!

The two issues are not related. Providing the needy with antimalarials doesn't kill gay people. Ceasing the supply of them isn't going to save gay people, either. Particularly not gay people who have malaria.

So tell me. Here we have a government that is violating its own constitution in order to persecute gay people as a cover for its own corruption and total non-responsiveness to the people of the nation. Do you think, honestly, that stripping aid to the neediest - and thus least influential - people in the state is going to make the government change its mind? Savaging the poorest of Iraq and North Korea sure turned THOSE nations around, didn't it?

[Scruffy Rumbler]

84. Just pulling the same fucking bullshit you did.

Now that they are going after women and rapping little girls, will you be willing to cut aid to this country? In the hopes of forcing more equal minded people in the country to do something?

[Scootaloo]

85. Now there's an idea!

"They're raping little girls, quick, let's cut medical aid that those raped little girls need!"

Interesting, your logic - contribute to the suffering and deaths of innocents, to protest the suffering and deaths of innocents.

I'm all for cutting military aid or any other money going to support the state apparatus. But inflicting cuts on the neediest, simply out of spite and internet machismo, is not something I can get behind. Review and supervise? You bet. Strip? No.

[nomorenomore08]

86. Honestly, I can understand "eye for an eye" sort of thinking. I struggle against it, but I

understand it nonetheless. I mean, if people are literally out to kill you, how much can you be expected to care about them or their families?

Not everyone can rise above that and be a better person, even if we still need to try.

[RKP5637]

5. Yet again, we can thank the American Christian Taliban for bringing misery and misfortune to

even more people. The American Christian Taliban should just brand themselves as "Disciples from Hell!"

[cprise]

7. Evangelicals' fingerprints are all over this. n/t

[theHandpuppet]

8. "Pastor" Scott Lively, homophobe to the world

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/03/the-painful-case-of-pastor-scott-lively-homophobe-to-the-world/

He is being sued for crimes against humanity but from some of the legal opinions I've read, the chances for conviction are doubtful.

[RKP5637]

10. This guy should be executed for first degree murder. What an example of premeditation to

commit murder of innocent people. He is such a stunning piece of garbage.

[theHandpuppet]

16. To me, he fully qualifies as a terrorist

And as such, his passport should be immediately revoked. That might not seem like much but it would be a start.

[RKP5637]

20. Too much stuff like this gets a free pass. The word religion is invoked and people back off,

well, this is not about religion, it is about terrorism by the American Taliban and should be treated as such.

[theHandpuppet]

24. Oh I agree

Too many people afraid to speak out because someone calls himself a "pastor" or is affiliated with a church. Well, by gum, when your religion involves sticking your noses into politics, be prepared to be called on it. Religion doesn't give you a right to oppress, discriminate and persecute in the name of your god and under the guise of "religious liberty".

[RKP5637]

26. I've always seen religion as all politics, going back eons it was all politics, power

struggles, control of the masses and the like, same as today.

And, as you say, if one wants to push for rights to "oppress, discriminate and persecute in the name of your god and under the guise of "religious liberty"" then they had best be prepared to take the heat. I'm also fed up with the tax evasion by religious institutions/corporations. Many religions today are just corporations pushing their brand of politics.

[theHandpuppet]

29. Couldn't agree more

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/petermontgomery/6065/ugandan_bishops_push_notorious_anti_gay_bill

As far as I'm concerned, when the churches start sticking their noses into politics, they should lose their tax exempt status!

[Enthusiast]

52. Me too.

[RKP5637]

9. Evangelicals are so damn degenerate. A backward force on the advancement of humanity. n/t

[azurnoir]

11. oh I agree and aid that goes under the heading of 'developing democracy' should be suspended pronto

[iandhr]

35. Though they bear some responsibility...

… it's not 100% their fault.

There is a reason their target is African nations. They a smaller and smaller market for their hate here so they need a place where the market for their beliefs is alive and well.

From the NY TIMES:

"Western opposition to such measures is frequently interepreted as what Mr. Museveni on Monday called “an attempt at social imperialism, to impose social values.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/world/europe/ugandan-president-to-sign-antigay-law.html?_r=0

If there wasn't already big time anti gay sentiment in Africa the christian right here wouldn't be able to successfully stir the pot.

Anti-gay folks here are taking advantage of a situation that already exists.

[RKP5637]

40. Yes, the American Taliban is a catalyst. n/t

[iandhr]

43. I think we more or less agree.

I was only saying they focus on Africa because there is a market for this that no longer exists in the west and that African nations that do this bear much of the responsibility.

[RKP5637]

45. Yep! n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

36. ^This^

Dead. On.

Who was it that said that, when you allow a theocracy to take over, somebody's going to burn.

[JackInGreen]

14. We have any reactions from the ministries that backed and sold this to them?

I'm sure they'll be SO proud, and they can all have a big old summit for more hate and intolerance in Arizona.

[theHandpuppet]

17. Oh I'm sure they'll feel empowered by this "victory"

Expect them to ramp up the hate.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. Francis has been silent, allowing his Bishops to lead Uganda's 42% Catholic

population.
Catholics Urge Pope Francis to Speak Out for LGBT Rights

A group of Catholics is urging Pope Francis to speak out against laws criminalizing homosexuality.

The Catholic bishops of Uganda, which is 41% Catholic, opposed a 2009 version of a recent bill that would criminalize homosexuality, saying that it did “not pass a test of a Christian caring approach to this issue.”
http://www.advocate.com/politics/religion/2014/01/28/catholics-urge-pope-francis-speak-out-lgbt-rights
January 28 2014 4:34 PM ET


From 2012:
The Uganda Joint Christian Council, which includes Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox bishops, has called on parliament to move the notorious Anti-Homosexuality Bill forward. According to the Ugandan newspaper The Daily Monitor:


Top religious leaders from across the country have asked Parliament to speed-up the process of enacting the Anti-Homosexuality law to prevent what they called “an attack on the Bible and the institution of marriage.”

Speaking after their recent annual conference organised by the Uganda Joint Christian Council (UJCC), an ecumenical body which brings together the Anglican, Catholic and Orthodox churches, the bishops resolved that the parliamentary committee on Gender should be tasked to engage the House on the Bill which is now at committee level.
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/petermontgomery/6065/ugandan_bishops_push_notorious_anti_gay_bill

[theHandpuppet]

27. I hope he enjoys partying with the Ugandans later this year.

Maybe he and Archbishop Lwanga can share some tea and a chat about old cars.

http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/ugandas-catholic-bishops-reverse-their-stance-to-support-death-penalty-bill-for-lesbian-and-gay-people/

[Bluenorthwest]

31. My post includes an article that would allow his Fan Club to join in urging

him to drop his murderous silence. Gives them something to do since they will fall silent themselves today. Their narrative has issues around Uganda.

[theHandpuppet]

42. Don't hold your breath waiting

I've been following a series of very heated threads on GD regarding the objectification of women and although I haven't participated much myself, I have read through several and learned a lot about some of the posters there, i.e., if you mock feminist principles, laugh at the offense of women here or post flamebait threads which have no purpose other than to belittle and demean women, you're probably someone who really doesn't give two shits about issues of reproductive choice, equality for women, LGBT rights, etc. So defending a homophobic misogynist is just par for the course because those issues were never really a problem or priority for them to begin with. Conversely, if a poster descends upon one of the Pope threads pretending to care about these issues but in any other thread laughs in women's faces, they lose all credibility with me. Oh yes, I learned a lot.

That said, certainly not all posters fall into one of those two categories -- I was just pointing out that some folks are being quite obvious. I'm sure there are many here who are undergoing a true crisis of conscience. Sooner or later they will have to decide if the cost in human lives is really worth defending the indefensible.

[Le Taz Hot]

38. +1

Here's where the Humanitarian meets the Pontiff. He could go a long way towards turning this around. If he stays silent, he's no better than those who came before him. I've tried giving him credit for his outspoken views on wealth distribution and I'm trying hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. But if he doesn't stand up and speak LOUDLY on this issue he deserves everything his detractors give him.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. His silence is already as long as his tenure, and this law has been waiting

for the Presidential signature for weeks. His Bishops have supported this law. That which he could have done, he refused to do.

[theHandpuppet]

81. This is the kind of response we should expect from people of faith

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/23/desmond-tutu-condemns-uganda-proposed-anti-gay-law
Desmond Tutu condemns Uganda's proposed new anti-gay law

[valerief]

18. What next, a Kill the Whites bill? That'd keep a big chunk of the hateful evangelists out anyway. nt

[RKP5637]

22. So, I guess according to Arizona, for example, if ones skin color offends ones religion, service

can be refused? Isn't it all the same? And what constitutes a religion? ... one person, a few, many? The KKK operated under religion it seems, for example, their crosses and all, so how is this different?

Can killing of all gays in Arizona be far off, isn't that really what Arizona is indirectly saying. I'm sure a few in Arizona would love to be the next Uganda, isn't this what this is leading up to, one step forward. Onward Christian Soldiers, the American Taliban!

Apparently blacks offended the KKK. What about housing, suppose a group of people say renting to people of color offends their religion, how is this different. I guess under this law entire housing developments can refuse gays. Entire corporations can refuse gays? How about if people of color offend an entire community, under the logic of Arizona, the entire community can refuse gays and people of color, refusal of all community services? And, how do they know if one is gay, is there now some kind of gay purification test?

Well, if this passes, I will remove all of my approved vendors in Arizona from my approved vendor list, because they offend my religion! At one point this would have stopped millions of dollars flowing into Arizona. Arizona is NOT unique in services and products. Those services and products can be replaced easily as contracts expire! In short, FUCK ARIZONA! Scottsdale is not unique!

I will just consider Arizona to be one step behind Uganda.

[theHandpuppet]

30. It gets pretty complicated

In some cases it depends on federal protections. That's why there was such intense lobbying against ENDA (the Employment Non-Discrimination Act). Right now I don't know just how far Arizona's new law extends. You can bet, though, there will be plenty of folks pushing it to the limit. The situation is grim.

[arcane1]

79. I wonder if/when "I thought they were gay" becomes the new courtroom defense.

From what little I've seen about these proposed laws, it's all about whether someone believes a person is a religious-freedom-offending type.

[JaneyVee]

19. UGANDA BE KIDDING ME!

[shenmue]

28. Cut off all funding and diplomatic relations

Right now.

[johnnypneumatic]

53. and an economic blockade, sanctions, and full travel ban

to all homophobic countries

[former9thward]

68. Which would include almost all the African countries plus all the Islamic countries.

You going to have a economic blockade, sanctions and travel ban of most of the world?

[johnnypneumatic]

70. yes

would you not approve of an economic blockade, sanctions and travel ban against Nazi Germany for it's "Kill the Jews (and gays and others)" laws?

would you not approve of an economic blockade, sanctions and travel ban against any country that had a "Kill the jews" law? It used to be much of the world was antisemitic.

How about if they had "Kill the christians" laws or any other group of people other people want to persecute?

[former9thward]

71. No, most of the world was not Nazi Germany.

You want the U.S. to be some isolated nation by itself. Ok, good luck with that.

[johnnypneumatic]

72. "no" what?

I asked three questions of you, I don't see that you answered any.

let me ask you this. If Hitler had stopped after losing the battle of Britain, not attacked Russia and ended all hostilities, and consolidated his control into a Nazi Europe but continued the final solution, should the US have eventually resumed valuable economic business and corporate trade and travel with the new Europe?

Probably at the time most of the world at the time was antisemetic, but I'm not sure of the numbers, which is why I said "much". Many in the US were, just as they were racist and homophobic (and still are). Many in the US approved of Germany's treatment of Jewish people.

As for "You want the U.S. to be some isolated nation", no, that is a straw man mischaracterization of what I called for. And we wouldn't be isolated, we'd have most of N and S america on our side and Europe, and various others, while encouraging homophobic countries to re-think their priorities if they want to do business.

[former9thward]

73. First, isolation of Germany is different than most of the world.

And no, the rest of the world was not anti-Semitic to the degree that Germany was. That is just a fact. If Germany had stopped and consolidated power the U.S. would eventually have started up trade and normalized relations. Just as it did with the Soviet Union and China.

I think your understanding of the global economy is very limited if you think the U.S. could just hold hands with the Americas and Europe and make it alone. Our economy would be far worse than the Depression. And Europe, Central America and South America would not go along anyway.

[johnnypneumatic]

74. interesting

"the U.S. would eventually have started up trade and normalized relations. Just as it did with the Soviet Union and China." You may be right. Even if all the Jews and gays and others in Hitler's europe were sent to the ovens, the US may have eventually.

After all, what's the murder of tens of millions in the past have to do with corporate profits today? And who cares if Uganda and all those other countries kill or imprison all their gays today, it won't matter in the long run, eh?

You may want to do some reading on antisemitism, it was widespread in Europe historically, as well as elsewhere.

"Although the term did not come into common usage until the 19th century, it is now also applied to historic anti-Jewish incidences. Notable instances of persecution include the pogroms which preceded the First Crusade in 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, the massacres of Spanish Jews in 1391, the persecutions of the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, Cossack massacres in Ukraine of 1648–1657, various pogroms in Imperial Russia between 1821 and 1906, the 1894–1906 Dreyfus affair in France, the Holocaust in German-occupied Europe, official Soviet anti-Jewish policies and the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

As for the global economy, your dire predictions are pure speculation. Although, ending some trade agreements and bringing jobs and manufacturing back to the US would be a good thing.

[gtar100]

32. Sadly this pathetic excuse for a leader does this rather than address real issues.

Another example of attacking the wrong problem to get people's minds off the real problem of the wealthy stealing from and abusing the poor. They attack gay people rather than focus on worker's rights - living wages, decent working conditions, environmental standards, humane working hours, etc., etc., etc.

All they will get out of this is bloodshed, shame, and more hate. It won't fix a damn thing that will make a difference in their lives for the better.

[RKP5637]

44. Exactly, it's two fold, (1) deflects attention from his failure to deal with

the real problems plaguing Uganda, and (2) makes it look like he's doing something by siding with the wretched hatred against a targeted group.

This further illustrates why Uganda is such a fucked mess of a country!

[theHandpuppet]

48. Same thing in Nigeria

They're going through some major govt. corruption scandals right now.

[Laughing Mirror]

51. Pastor Martin Ssempa says it's time to party!

[Comrade Grumpy]

54. Will the US response be anything other than rhetoric?

[theHandpuppet]

55. It's what we're really good at

We have two speeds: empty rhetoric or military invasion. First gear is for countries who have nothing we want.

[WhiteTara]

69. I wonder who in his family is gay.

Or if it's him. He has some deep loathing going on here and sexuality is deeply personal.