First troops land in Poland as US beefs up Baltic presence

[bob27]

Source: AFP/Yahoo

Swidwin (Poland) (AFP) - The first American troops arrived in Poland on Wednesday, after Washington said it was sending a force of 600 there and to the Baltic states amid rising tensions with Russia over Ukraine.

Some 130 soldiers from the 173rd Airborne Brigade -- nicknamed "Sky Soldiers" -- touched down early afternoon in Swidwin, in the northwest of the country, and were welcomed by Poland's defence minister.

A further 450 US troops will be deployed in the next few days in the ex-Soviet Baltic states Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, following Washington's announcement Tuesday that it would increase its presence in the region to reassure its NATO "allies and partners".

The US has pulled no punches in describing the purpose of the mission, with Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby calling the deployment a "message to Moscow" that Washington takes its obligations in Europe "very, very seriously".



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/first-troops-land-poland-us-beefs-baltic-presence-155008415.html

---

The big hand on the doomsday clock just got a little closer to midnight.

[newfie11]

1. Yes it has moved closer to midnight

And will probably move some more.
This is insane!!!

[840high]

3. It is insane.

[uhnope]

7. I agree there has been a total failure to prepare better non-military solutions to open aggression

like Putin's... But at the same time the world must respond to Putin trying to spread his dictatorship. Putin caused this mess

[newfie11]

12. Are there any troops being sent other than US troops

I don't think US should be the only NATO country sending troops.

[LiberalEsto]

24. Exactly.

Ukraine didn't invade Russia.
Russia invaded Ukraine.
Putin is the one with deranged nationalist fantasies of re-creating the failed Soviet Union, something he has no right whatsoever to do.

[RKP5637]

54. Some think Putin thinks as they ... they don't get it, putin is IMO an ego maniac intent on

reestablishing the Soviet Union. He will move forward inch by inch, then foot by foot. Sometimes all it takes is one persistent leader in the driver's seat, and it can lead to dire consequences. History is filled with such examples. It is a very dangerous situation.

[Bobbi5]

2. So it's really happening.

It would be so easy for the whole business to escalate into something terrible.... Are we back to Cold War dread again?

[uhnope]

4. Should Putin be given free reign to take over every country he thinks is Greater Russia?

So he can start closing down democracies and free media and start the gay bashing laws in more and more places?

[newfie11]

5. Is NATO sending troops from other countries or just the US? Nt

[rhett o rick]

9. You ask a lot of questions. Why dont you tell us what you think? Should the lower class that

have 25% children living in poverty pay the bill to finance another war? The neocons are frothing at the mouth.

As far as democracies go, we have lost ours. I would think that'd be a concern for you that champions democracies.

[bob27]

16. Ukraine has a fascist dictatorship. Do you want the US to defend it?

The oppression of gays will be as bad or worse than in Russia.

[uhnope]

17. What else does Putin want us to think?

[rhett o rick]

32. My ignorance aside, WE CAN NOT AFFORD ANOTHER WAR. The drain on the wealth of the lower

classes will soon turn us into an oligarchy. Ooops, IT ALREADY HAS. Let the 0.01% fight the war.

[newfie11]

14. +1. nt

[Bobbi5]

11. Is the new fascist Ukraine more gay-friendly than Russia?

I doubt it. Fascists put gays in concentration camps.

[LiberalEsto]

15. I wouldn't call Ukraine fascist. That's Russian propaganda-speak.

Ukraine has nationalist elements, and perhaps some of them are fascist. But one can't tar the entire nation with one brush.

And since when has anyone in Ukraine recently established a concentration camp or put any gay people into it?

[bob27]

18. Not fascist?

From Salon.com:

One of the “Big Three” political parties behind the protests is the ultra-nationalist Svoboda, whose leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, has called for the liberation of his country from the “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.” After the 2010 conviction of the Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk for his supporting role in the death of nearly 30,000 people at the Sobibor camp, Tyahnybok rushed to Germany to declare him a hero who was “fighting for truth.” In the Ukrainian parliament, where Svoboda holds an unprecedented 37 seats, Tyahnybok’s deputy Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn is fond of quoting Joseph Goebbels – he has even founded a think tank originally called “the Joseph Goebbels Political Research Center.” According to Per Anders Rudling, a leading academic expert on European neo-fascism, the self-described “socialist nationalist” Mykhalchyshyn is the main link between Svoboda’s official wing and neo-Nazi militias like Right Sector.

Right Sector is a shadowy syndicate of self-described “autonomous nationalists” identified by their skinhead style of dress, ascetic lifestyle, and fascination with street violence. Armed with riot shields and clubs, the group’s cadres have manned the front lines of the Euromaidan battles this month, filling the air with their signature chant: “Ukraine above all!” In a recent Right Sector propaganda video [embedded at the bottom of this article], the group promised to fight “against degeneration and totalitarian liberalism, for traditional national morality and family values.” With Svoboda linked to a constellation of international neo-fascist parties through the Alliance of European National Movements, Right Sector is promising to lead its army of aimless, disillusioned young men on “a great European Reconquest.”

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_us_backing_neo_nazis_in_ukraine_partner/

[LiberalEsto]

20. And Putin isn't fascist?

Seems to me he's following parts of Hitler's playbook. He's also playing on Russian nationalist elements for his own purposes. .


Let me make one more point. I'm 1/4 Ukrainian. I am not in any sense of the word a fascist. I deeply resent it when people with a handful of posts come on DU and start calling all of Ukraine fascist.

[bob27]

21. No. :)

Sorry to offend you. Especially sorry to have only a handful of posts. And where exactly did I say that all Ukrainians are fascists? They have a fascist government that got into power through a putsch.

[rhett o rick]

34. Your train of logic just went off track. Just because Putin is fascist doesnt preclude

the Ukraine from being a fascist state. No one called you a fascist. Do you think we should defend the Ukraine? If so, who will pay the cost?

[richard3]

42. Your comments make no sense.

They seem to be all over the place. Could you please explain them?

[rhett o rick]

43. I'll try. In post #18 bob27 intimates that the Ukraine is a fascist state.

Your response is that Putin is a fascist. If your point is that if Putin is a fascist then the Ukraine cant be, sorry but bad logic. If that's not your point, you'll have to explain it to me.

And where did this come from? "Let me make one more point. I'm 1/4 Ukrainian. I am not in any sense of the word a fascist." No one accused you of being a fascist or that all Ukrainians are fascist.

The poster intimated that the Ukraine is a fascist state. Explain why you dont agree without calling Putin a fascist.

[athelbert]

48. Sorry, I don't get your point, either.

Why does anyone have to talk about Putin? The issue is whether Ukraine is a fascist state now that the right wing coup d'état has overthrown the previous government which, I believe, was democratically elected. Whether Putin is a fascist has nothing to do with it.

And I don't see what your being 1/4 Ukrainian has anything to do with anything either. Is that supposed to give you some special insight into the present Right-Sector government? Why would it, unless you are a fascist yourself?

[William769]

49. To start with the last President was ousted by their Parliament

You know just like our Congress can oust a President.

It has everything to do with Putin because he is the one causing all the havoc right now in Ukraine. Unless of course you are one of the people that think RT News is Gospel. Which if you are, there goes your argument right out the window.

[athelbert]

51. You got the facts completely wrong.

Parliament didn't vote to oust Yanukovich until well after the fascist putsch.

From Wikipedia:

Yanukovych was elected president in 2010, defeating Yulia Tymoshenko. November 2013 saw the beginning of a series of events that led to his ouster as president.[1][2][3] Yanukovych rejected a pending EU association agreement, choosing instead to pursue a Russian loan bailout and closer ties with Russia. This led to popular protests and the occupation of Kiev's Independence Square dubbed "Euromaidan" by young pro-European Union Ukrainians. In January 2014 this developed into deadly clashes in Independence Square and in areas across Ukraine as Ukrainian citizens confronted the Berkut and other special police units.[4] In February 2014, Ukraine appeared to be on the brink of civil war, as violent clashes between protesters and special police forces led to many deaths and injuries.[5][6][7] Yanukovych claimed on 21 February 2014 that after lengthy discussions he had reached an agreement with the opposition.[8] However later that day he fled the capital for Kharkiv, travelling next to Crimea and eventually to southern Russia.[9]

The Ukrainian parliament voted on 22 February to remove him from his post on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties[10] although the legislative removal lacked the required votes according to the constitution in effect at the time.[11][12][13] Parliament set an election for 25 May to select his replacement[10][14][15][16] and two days later issued a warrant for his arrest, accusing him of "mass killing of civilians."[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanukovich

The Wikipedia citations in this article are to reputable sources.

[rhett o rick]

55. You responded to the wrong post. nm

[RKP5637]

56. Yep, the gays were the beginning, typical scenario in preparation for the next move. I said it

back then, this will lead to the next step ... and it did ... and there will be more steps as he justifies his encroachment on others. It's a time worn story. The sad part is the MIC might well be licking their chops for great profits with another cold war.

[richard3]

8. There could be a ground war in Europe between Russia and the US

without the use of nukes. But whichever country was losing would be very tempted to use them.

[uppityperson]

19. Do you seriously believe the USA would nuke Europe to make Russia go away?

[bob27]

22. There would be a strong motive to use nukes.

Any country that thinks it is going to lose a war will be tempted to use nuclear weapons. And they would probably be used on Russia by the US or by Russia on the US. Europe would get the fallout.

[freshwest]

33. No, not at all. And the Nuclear Club doesn't go for that, either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024582939

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024582939#post96

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

[richard3]

41. Any country that thinks it is losing a war will be tempted to use nukes.

Refute that.

[freshwest]

45. History refutes that. Last nuke dropped on Japan. Lots of wars lost since then. No nuking. n/t

[richard3]

50. No it doesn't.

Name one nuclear power that has feared it was losing a war, but didn't use nukes. You can't, because no nuclear powers have ever been in that position.

Please think before you write. Otherwise you are wasting everyone's time.

[karynnj]

52. The US did not win in Vietnam -- nor did we use a nuclear weapon

One of several examples.

[uppityperson]

60. USA did not win in Viet Nam yet did not nuke them

[AnalystInParadise]

57. Ummmm Ok

U.S.- Korea
U.S. Vietnam
Israel-Yom Kippur War
Russia-Afghanistan
U.K.-Falklands War (they were losing early on)
France-Algerian War
Russia-Chechen War
China-China/Vietnam War 1979


So yeah......

[CatholicEdHead]

46. Maybe among some younger Republicans

or parts of the Neo-Con base who missed out on dropping them in the Cold War with the USSR.

MAD is unspoken but still there, even Putin is not dumb enough to use them given what he has done already.

[AnalystInParadise]

58. Why on earth

would there be a ground war in Europe? There is no incentive for either side to fight each other.

[Democracyinkind]

59. You're wasting your good mind on this one. nt

[CatholicEdHead]

47. This is a real world Risk setup

With armies around the Ukraine area (country and game). As Putin builds up around the Ukraine, we will gradually reposition our remaining ground forces (much depleted post Iraq and Afghanistan) to eastern Europe. MAD is still in effect, so nukes are off the chess board. It will be similar to the Eisenhower post-WWII build up. The way the board is set, a dividing line may be at the eastern Polish border. Pooty Poot is crafty, greedy, but not blood thirsty.

[EX500rider]

6. Why is anybody shocked or surprised NATO holds NATO exercises in NATO countries?

Not like they invaded a neighboring country and stole a piece of it. Now THAT would be shocking and provoking.

[LiberalEsto]

23. +1 nt

[bob27]

25. This isn't "NATO" and they are not NATO exercises.

It's the US. And it's the timing that makes it significant.

[newfie11]

26. +1

[EX500rider]

36. US and Poland ARE both in NATO so par for the course to have some military exercises

[Bobbi5]

38. No. This is not "par for the course"

Whatever that means. It is not routine. The US Secretary of Defense says it is not routine:

“Russian aggression has renewed our resolve to strengthen the NATO alliance,” Hagel said Thursday, while speaking at a press conference with Polish National Defense Minister Tomasz Siemoniak. The pair hinted troop movements would take place in the coming weeks."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/04/22/us-sends-600-airborne-infantry-troops-to-poland-baltics

[AnalystInParadise]

39. LOL and 600 Airborne Infantry

are not going to deter shit since Russia has no designs on NATO countries. People want this to be a story, for some fucking reason I cannot fathom. Tell you what, when we are moving Brigades to Eastern Europe I will get concerned, just like I will get concerned if Russia actually threatens NATO. Until then, this movement of "soldiers" is a masturbatory aid for those who want to believe we have any leverage with Russia.

Since I have to say it now in every post, research my posts, I am hyper critical of the assclown Putin, but I also know troop deployment bullshit when I smell it. Twenty years in the military teaches you when a deployment is serious and when we are fucking around.....This is the latter.

[Strelnikov_]

10. ..

[maryellen99]

29. That movie gave me nightmares

Another one that's well done is "Countdown to Looking Glass". I won't be surprised if there is a nuclear conflict

[Strelnikov_]

31. Thats a good one, haven't seen it for years

The thing I 'like' about Threads is the beginning, how we live in an interconnected society that really is not very fault tolerant. Hell, back in '08 a bunch of yahoos on Wall Street about shut the system down. What's a major war gonna do? This isn't 1940 . . the world economy works differently now. For the better in most ways, but much more prone to catabolic collapse.

[maryellen99]

35. I agree nt

Plus Threads makes The Day After look like Disney.

[Jake Stern]

27. Ahhh yet another foreign deployment.

Last edited Wed Apr 23, 2014, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Why not? It's not like we have shit to take care of here at home with the billions we'll drop to militarily demonstrate the size of our proverbial manhood to Putin.

Looks like we've painted ourselves into a corner again.

[bob27]

28. Gotta send some legions to Dacia.

It's self-defense.

[rug]

30. I'm too old for this shit.

[elias49]

37. Ike said it long ago:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex."

We continue to fail in our task.

[Supersedeas]

40. We have always been at war in Urasia.

[BelgianMadCow]

61. Yes

Eurasia is how it was spelled in the copy I last read, but yes.

[maryellen99]

44. Someone needs to sit both Obama and Putin down and make them watch "Threads"

It will show them what will happen if things get out of hand.