Russia and China veto UN move to refer Syria to international criminal court

[pampango]

Source: UK Guardian

Russia and China have vetoed a draft UN resolution calling for the crisis in Syria to be referred to the international criminal court – ignoring support for the measure by 65 other countries and all other members of the security council.

Vitaly Churkin, Russia's UN ambassador, had earlier dismissed the vote as a "publicity stunt" and warned that if the resolution had passed it would hinder efforts to end the country's three-year war. However, no peace negotiations are currently taking place.

Thirteen of the security council's 15 members voted for the resolution. Russia and China both cast their vetoes – which are restricted to the five permanent members.

The draft resolution took note of reports by an independent commission appointed by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate violations in Syria. In its latest report last September, the commission said there had been at least eight massacres perpetrated by Assad forces and one by rebels in the previous year and a half. A confidential list of suspected criminals is being produced by the commission and kept by the UN high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/22/russia-china-veto-un-draft-resolution-refer-syria-international-criminal-court

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Republican senators think they have it good when they can block legislation by filibustering with just 41% of the senators. They would love to go by Security Council rules where you can 'filibuster' something you don't like with 7% (1 out of 15, if you are one of the lucky Big 5) of the vote. 13-2 might win a winning vote in most places but not in the UN.

[leftyohiolib]

1. russia and china the republicans of the un

[cosmicone]

2. First they tried a coup then supplied arms to the terrorists

and when that failed, they want to bring down the regime with ICCJ while ignoring that the terrorists are responsible for almost all of the atrocities including the chemical weapons attack.

Thank heavens for Russia and China.

[ballyhoo]

7. Yep. But, then, the way the West is going

it won't make much difference for too much longer.

[pampango]

10. If "the terrorists are responsible for almost all of the atrocities including the chemical weapons

attack", all the more reason to give the ICC jurisdiction over prosecuting those who have committed human rights abuses in Syria. Histirically the ICC has prosecuted perpetrators on all sides who have committed war crimes.

The International Criminal Court (ICC or ICCt) is a permanent international tribunal to prosecute individuals for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression (although jurisdiction for the crime of aggression will not be active until 2017 at the earliest).

Currently, 122 states are states parties to the Statute of the Court, including all of South America and Europe, most of Oceania and roughly half the countries in Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

Every progressive country in the world is a member of the ICC. That leaves out the US, Russia and China none of which qualify as progressive at any rate. It is these three countries and several smaller authoritarian countries that routinely resist the jurisdiction of the ICC.

[cosmicone]

11. Why should the Syrian regime give up sovereignty

when they are kicking terrorist ass so nicely without the ICC?

[pampango]

12. Why should war criminals be prosecuted at all? Does the concept of national sovereignty

trump that of punishing war criminals? (There are a lot of bad characters throughout history - including a few Americans- who would heartily agree with that idea.)

Should it matter whether they are government officials or non-state actors? "Terrorists" of both varieties in Syria thank those who vetoed the resolution.

[bemildred]

13. Well, the question is, when will we prosecute our own war criminals?

Until we do that, get our own shit together, nobody much is going to pay attention to our State Dept. bloviating about other nation's morality. If we want to lead, we need to lead.

[pampango]

14. Our State Department may be "bloviating". OTOH, I would like to see ALL war criminals

prosecuted. Do we reach that goal by giving all war criminals a free pass in the meantime or by strengthening the precedent of prosecuting them?

[bemildred]

15. I'm just saying people have stopped listening to us.

They were told their lawlessness would have consequences, but they just call you names when you point that out.

[cosmicone]

16. we have to lead by example and not hypocrisy

let's put up Bush, Cheney, Condoleeza, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz first and ship them to The Hague. Then our bloviating will have authenticity and sincerity.

[pampango]

17. I agree, though I am not in favor of giving war criminals on all sides of conflicts a free pass just

because our State Department it hypocritical. I would be happy if our government abstained (on the grounds of hypocrisy) on UN votes on ICC referrals and let the rest of the world set up war criminals for punishment.

[christx30]

3. That's all well and good.

But is there an enforcement arm? If it had been referred to the ICC, what could the ICC do? Send a memo to Assad? "We hereby demand that you dissist whatever whatever." Can they force Assad to do anything? Is the ICC going to send in police or troops to capture anyone? There's no reason to respect it, especially by a guy with a large military at his back.

[KamaAina]

4. China. That's... surprising.

Seeing as how Russia's veto alone would have been sufficient.

[dipsydoodle]

5. This will continue.

Last edited Thu May 22, 2014, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Its payback for the bent resolution on Libya.

Neither county is prepared to mugged off twice so the rest can just deal with it.

[bemildred]

6. Might as well pound sand. nt

[Fred Sanders]

8. America regularily ignores and vetos massive support for resolutions regarding Israel's occupation,

the environment, etc., etc., so why is it a big deal when an illegitimate coup installed temporary government wants a resolution and it
is vetoed? Oh, yeah, because......'Merika.

[Earth_First]

9. Precisely. nt

[bemildred]

18. Assad to Moscow: Thank you!

DAMASCUS - Syrian President Bashar al-Assad Saturday thanked key ally Moscow for its support during a meeting in Damascus with a Russian delegation led by deputy premier Dimitry Rogozin, state media said.

The meeting comes days after Russia vetoed a draft UN resolution that would have referred crimes committed in Syria to the International Criminal Court (ICC).

Assad expressed "his appreciation for the Russian position of support for the Syrian people in their war against terrorism," state news agency SANA said, using the government's term for its opponents.

Two weeks away from a controversial vote that is expected to return him to power, Assad stressed "the significance of Russia defending global stability in the face of the West, which is trying to impose its hegemony in the region", SANA added.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=66146

[pampango]

19. At least he is polite. The Russian rep is from the military-industrial complex.

Rogozin, who headed the delegation, is also special envoy to Russian President Vladimir Putin's and heads the country's Military-Industrial Commission, according to his Twitter account.

Moscow has backed Damascus financially, politically and militarily ever since the outbreak of a revolt demanding political change in Syria in March 2011.

The uprising morphed into an insurgency after Assad's regime unleashed a massive crackdown on Arab Spring-inspired protests.

More than 160,000 people have been killed in the conflict and nearly half the population has been forced to flee their homes.

I imagine Russia has made a ton of money of the military exports to Assad in the past 3 years. Mr. Rogozin should be thanking Mr. Assad, too.

[davidpdx]

20. Yep

I'm sure their relationship is "you scratch my balls and I'll scratch yours" type of thing.