Iraqi Woman Critically Beaten in Calif. (Has Died); Threat Note Left at Scene
Last edited Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:15 PM - Edit history (2)
Source: MSNBC
updated 3/24/2012 6:08:50 PM ET
Iraqi woman critically beaten in Calif.; threat note left at scene
The Associated Press
EL CAJON, Calif. — A 32-year-old woman from Iraq was critically injured after being severely beaten in her Southern California home, and police said a threatening note was discovered at the scene.
The woman's 17-year-old daughter found her unconscious Wednesday morning in the dining room of the house in El Cajon, police Lt. Steve Shakowski said. Authorities identified the victim as Shaima Alawadi, a mother of five.
- snip -
Police Lt. Mark Coit said a threatening note was discovered "very close to where the victim was found," but he did not disclose other details of the note. The family said they had found a similar note earlier this month but did not report it to authorities, Coit said
Sura Alzaidy, a family friend, told UT San Diego the note told the family to “go back to your own country. You’re a terrorist.”
Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46845257/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts
http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2012/mar/24/el-cajon-woman-dies-after-beating-earlier-week
El Cajon woman dies after beating earlier in week
Story by Pauline Repard
Saturday, March 24, 2012
EL CAJON — A 32-year-old El Cajon woman found severely beaten in her home on Wednesday with a threatening note next to her, died Saturday afternoon, El Cajon police said.
A friend of the family said Shaima Alawadi, mother of five children, was taken off life support about 3 p.m.
Investigations Lt. Steve Shakowski confirmed that Alawadi had passed away.
The woman’s 17-year-old daughter found her unconscious in the dining room of the house on Skyview Street off Lemon Avenue about 11:15 a.m. Wednesday.
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CaliforniaPeggy
(156,619 posts)This woman is not a terrorist; the person who beat her is.
I am sickened by this act of terror.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
Citizen Worker
(1,785 posts)Lucky Luciano
(11,863 posts)
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)I think it's too early to make any definite conclusions.
Lucky Luciano
(11,863 posts)
AnotherMother4Peace
(5,124 posts)(how can I say this politely) areas of racist, low income, low info residents. The type of gun toting people easily influenced to action by hate mongers, preachers, radio personalities.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)It doesn't really add up. It seems like something a lot more personal than some random hater deciding to beat up an Arab.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)How do you know this wasn't a simple case of a man killing a family member? It happens every day, across all cultures.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)there is no polite way to say it.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)and deserve to be treated as such.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)the GOP to the list?
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)tom metzger is located in that area.
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)And he was in Fallbrook (North County), not East County. Nevertheless, you are on the right path. East county is full of red necks and bigots. It is solidly the Rush Limbaugh/Fox audience. I grew up there and worked there for many years. As an adult, I even knew of a couple of high school kids whose parents were heads of a local Neo-Nazi organization--the parents put up a fight when the school prohibited them from wearing swastikas at school, but finally complied. I'm shocked by all the apparent skepticism on this thread.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i did not know metzger left, but i know that area. thanks for the updated info 
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)years ago. But his ilk continue to populate East County--though many have left El Cajon to go even further East (because El Cajon has too many "minorities" now). Today, there are some solid Dems in the area, so it isn't as bad as in the old days, but still to many birthers, etc. for my taste. Santee is still nicknamed "Klantee."
One of my high school teachers was named "MetzGAR," and she would make a huge deal if anyone pronounced it wrong. She did not want to be associated with Tom Metzger in any way.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)my mom and dad moved to riverside in 1980. things have changed since then, but i remember what an openly hostile area it was for black people back then. i hated visiting there...and still do, even though the demographics have changed. i don't think people who are not from California realize that the road between San Diego and Eureka is pretty much red country, with the exception of the greater Los Angeles and San Francisco areas...and some other pockets in between.
about ten years ago, i visited a friend in Olympia, WA via greyhound. she felt the need to tell me not to venture too far from the major streets because of the white supremacists in the area...i heeded her advice. though i must admit, most of the people i encountered were very friendly...still, i felt the undercurrent of danger lurking in the shadows. here's that thingy again
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...namecalling of Santee. Geeesh!
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)I'm sharing an actual nickname. And I think it is relevant in a thread in which people are saying this could not possibly be a hate crime. It most certainly could -- and I should know, having grown up and lived there for decades. Look, the history of the area is that its population grew starting the seventies -- a major cause being "white flight." Bigots wanted to get out of the cities, which were growing more diverse. That's not to imply that everyone there is redneck or racist or Republican. However, that element does exist there, and more so there than in downtown San Diego. It's no different than the difference between New York City and Alabama. I don't know why you're so offended by the truth.
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...1961, I do not appreciate namecalling of sections of the county according to biased stereotypes about the people who live there. I am well-aware of the names and know you didn't make them up...but they promote a negative bias about the people there. Why do that?
As to this story...of course this could be a hate crime. Hate...and haters...exist everywhere. Or it might NOT be a hate crime. We just don't have the facts to know that yet.
I DO have an opinion...based on what I've heard and read. But it is only speculative at this point. Soon we will probably learn more.
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts) YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)...resident, I must say that stereotyping people by area is unproductive...and untrue. East county also has some wonderful liberal Democrats (some of whom I am related to). 
When I lived in South County, I had students who ignorantly did the swastika thing...
I'm shocked at some of the bias in this thread.
YvonneCa
(10,117 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We have a lot of "Christian" right-wing wackjobs who have, at the least, severe terrorist potential, and some of whom(like Timothy McVeigh)have acted on their urges.
Lucky Luciano
(11,863 posts)
lunatica
(53,410 posts)What a horrendous act! I hope they find whoever did it.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Now they're terrorists? 
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)of half beating a defenseless woman to death with a tire iron and then calling her a terrorist is lost on the real terrorist.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Who brings a note and then beats someone unconscious to the point of what they may have thought was death?
Far better, if you want to communicate a threat, to cause a non-mortal wound and leave the 32 year old woman (with a seventeen year old kid--sheesh, Mom didn't have much of a childhood, did she?) to tell the rest of her family what the "evil doer" said.
They weren't lost Iraqi flowers amongst the hate-filled mouth-breathers--they were living in the midst of a vibrant southern California Iraqi community, one of the larger ones in the nation.
The father was out of the house at the time of the attack, we are told, taking the kids to school.
There's a seventeen year old daughter ( might she be thinking about things like prom, parties, dates, summer weather, swimsuits, going away to college, riding in cars with boys?) with a "traditional" mother.
The victim was "beaten on the head repeatedly with a tire iron." How very intimate. I don't know many "terra-haters" who use tire irons as weapons--am I alone, here?
I just have a feeling there's more to this story than meets the immediate eye. I'll wait for the investigation to shake it all out.
The family had lived in the house in San Diego County for only a few weeks, after moving from Michigan, Alzaidy said. Alzaidy told the newspaper her father and Alawadi's husband had previously worked together in San Diego as private contractors for the U.S. Army, serving as cultural advisers to train soldiers who were going to be deployed to the Middle East.
El Cajon, northeast of downtown San Diego, is home to some 40,000 Iraqi immigrants, the second largest such community in the U.S. after Detroit.
Lasher
(29,576 posts)That is a plausible theory. I'm with you, I'll wait and see.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)They're pretty much upfront about their intentions, from what I've seen. Not that they should be admired for that, just that they're generally straightforward on the matter.
Lasher
(29,576 posts)"One reason the numbers of honor killings aren't known is because when they're presented to court, they are presented as suicides," Surood Ahmed, from the Kirkuk office of Iraq's al-Amal Association for Women, told Reuters.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-iraq-women-idUSTRE82510920120306
MADem
(135,425 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)You might as well face the reality that it's at least as likely that it's a non-Iraqi American who committed the act out of horrible political intent as it is some of crazy immigrant thing.
MADem
(135,425 posts)What I am speculating is that the US born DAUGHTER killed her mother because she wasn't about to obey her parents and marry some old (to her--maybe thirty or forty) guy in a pre-arranged marriage.
The other possibility is that the husband killed the wife because he thought she was fooling around on him--and told the daughter to lie for him.
The woman was not a Chaldean Christian, she had lived here since she was twelve years old, she had been married for eighteen years, and she was living in the 2nd largest Iraqi-American community in the US where the presence of a non-Iraqi stranger on the street would likely be observed in the morning routines of the neighborhood.
Signs point to an inside job.
Time will tell.
Mariana
(15,624 posts)Those kinds of killings don't usually take long to solve.
The tire iron tends to make me think it was a man who did it, but I agree with you, it was no stranger.
mallard
(569 posts)Imagine being displaced along with millions of others over an unlawful foreign invasion that's turned your formerly peaceful country into one so dangerous as to be worth fleeing from.
Imagine fleeing to the invading country and then one day being murdered over the same false beliefs that allowed for that unlawful invasion.
You wrote:
"What I am speculating is that the US born DAUGHTER killed her mother because she wasn't about to obey her parents and marry some old (to her--maybe thirty or forty) guy in a pre-arranged marriage.
"The other possibility is that the husband killed the wife because he thought she was fooling around on him--and told the daughter to lie for him ..."
Then imagine people assuming the murder was another 'flaw' from within the victim side religious culture.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They emigrated for opportunity, per all reports. They've been here for twenty years. The husband has worked for the US government. They're plainly doing well.
The dead woman was a child when she left Iraq--she was 12.
If this has anything to do with "beliefs"--false or otherwise--I'll be very surprised.
I suggest you review the available information on this case.
Nanjing03
(12 posts)I don't think so. Honor killings are seen more in backwater tribal areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan --truly worlds away from Iraq. Besides, the woman was 32 years old and had a 17 year old daughter. I was in and out of Iraq prior to and during the surge. Many Iraqis helped us in the positions of interpretors, State and Defense Department foreign nationals serving in a number of positions and even as cultural and language instructors for our armed forces and foreign service personnel. Likely, what happened here was that a valued and welcome naturalized U.S. citizen was murdered by a local thug. I had a fleeting thought that al-Qaeda could have been behind this -- since they are certainly capable, but they would have been crowing about it by now.
Lasher
(29,576 posts)While it might be true that this barbaric behavior is more common in other countries, honor killings do occur in Iraq.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-iraq-women-idUSTRE82510920120306
If this was an honor killing, it would not be the first time this behavior was imported to the US from Iraq.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2055445,00.html
MADem
(135,425 posts)since they were fourteen or fifteen years old.
This was the MOTHER who was beaten to death. Not a new mother, either--a mother with a bunch of kids and a long marriage.
cali
(114,904 posts)How about in England or France. There have been multiple prosecutions of honor killings in those places.
40lbsHammer
(13 posts)that this was some honor killing/send a message deal. But nothing would surprise me
MADem
(135,425 posts)The daughter, Fatima Al Himidi, told KUSI-TV her mother had been beaten on the head repeatedly with a tire iron, and that the note said "go back to your country, you terrorist."
Addressing the camera, the tearful daughter asked: "You took my mother away from me. You took my best friend away from me. Why? Why did you do it?"
Police said the family had found a similar note earlier this month but did not report it to authorities.
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/386c25518f464186bf7a2ac026580ce7/Article_2012-03-24-Iraqi%20Woman%20Beaten/id-36c201367f014207a99df18390ee04d0
I don't know why Susan Smith comes to mind...but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking of that terrible business.
The daughter is apparently an all American girl, born in the USA, since Mom had been living in the USA for TWENTY years--way before Iraq became "war torn."
Al Himidi told 10News nothing was stolen from the home, and the only motive must have been hate.
Al Awadi immigrated to the United States from Iraq nearly 20-years-ago.
http://www.10news.com/news/30753601/detail.html
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Beginning with the Iran-Iraq War that started in 1980, then the 1991 Gulf War, then the various bombings of the country in the '90s and early 2000s.
MADem
(135,425 posts)death with the tire iron. Her daughter, that she had when she was fifteen, apparently, was more than likely born here unless she went off on a vacation to have her.
Iraq was not "war torn" during the Iran Iraq war, at least not in the way that it was during the US occupation. The bulk of the fighting took place along the Iran Iraq border--it was a lot of death in a relatively small area as each side battled for chunks of ground. That was a war of attrition more than a war of asymmetrical terror and brute force. Except for shortages and funerals, there were many places in both countries where you'd never know there was a war going on, except for male family members being pulled away in the draft and a massive uptick in funerals of adult males mostly under the age of forty.
In Baghdad, when the deceased was just six years old, while the war was still dragging on, they were busy building a "Victory Arch" and parade field--hardly activities that one would engage in if one were under siege: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Arch
She was eight years old when the Iran-Iraq war ground to a halt in a stalemate of exhaustion. She spent four additional years in Iraq with her family. It could easily have been economic opportunity, or maybe even religious persecution if they happened to be a minority faith, not the threat of danger, that motivated the immigration. It is also possible that one or some of the males in her family may have been on someone else's payroll--either ours, or Israel's, or Turkey's, or some other proxy's, and they got spirited out of there in exchange for work done during GW1 Desert Shield or Storm--and that's how the young deceased might have ended up with a husband who ended up working for the American government--one of those old fashioned arranged marriages. That's pure speculation, of course. We do know that the deceased's husband did work for the US ARMY, doing cultural acclimation work--and how else would a refugee girl, fourteen or fifteen years old, meet and marry a guy like that?
We never went in during the Gulf War--we did do some targeted bombing, but I doubt that motivated this family to leave. I think this family--the deceased's parent(s) and the deceased's husband, particularly--had a relationship with the US government or one of our allies in the region, and that played a direct role in their immigration.
We'll see though--there's something "off" about this story, and I do not claim to have any knowledge--I'm just speculating, here. It just doesn't feel like a Hate Crime to me.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)"We never went in during the Gulf War--we did do some targeted bombing,"
If you are referring to Desert Storm, we most certainly did go in. We did a fast march from Kuwait to the brink of Baghdad, slaughtering Iraqi defenses along the way. And then we stopped short of Baghdad and left Saddam in place, which left many people irate at Poppy and Powell for not finishing the job. One of the early reasons suggested for W's rush to Iraq was to "finish" the job Poppy started.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And we didn't hang around. We were out as fast as we went in. We were operating under UN constraints at the time.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)Why would that family be chosen for a hate attack in an area with so many Iraqis?
And most women are killed by someone they know . . . .
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)I grew up in El Cajon, and I can tell you there are plenty of rednecks there. You hear complaints about "why are all the signs in Chaldean?" and "don't you remember before this town was taken over by hajis?," etc. The town next door, Santee, is nicknamed "Klantee." I have no doubt believing it was some ignorant, racist bullshit that drove someone(s) to perpetrate this vicious attack.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)That seems odd, if it were a hate based attack. Why didn't the crow-bar attacker use it to do damage in the house?
OTOH, if the attacker was her husband, he wouldn't have been motivated to wreck anything else.
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)I don't see what is so hard to believe about it. You have heard of hate crimes, yes?
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Muslim-owned businesses vandalized, as well. Hate-based crimes most certainly DO target property.
Even getting your car tires punctured because you have an Obama bumper sticker is a form of hate-based attack.
In fact, the property of someone who someone who belongs to a hated group gets targeted far more often than the actual people themselves get physically attacked.
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)So after you've bashed somebody's head in, why would you stick around to trash their house?
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)that their property is always trashed as well? Because that is what you are arguing must be the case.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Sure, there are violent Arab-haters out there, but they're far more likely to simply use a gun and attack someone on the street or in their place of business. And in the unlikely event that some random Arab-hater actually entered the home, wouldn't they have also wreaked damage on the furniture and windows and stuff with their tire iron?
MADem
(135,425 posts)family's" house might be noticed by others going about their business at the start of the day in the neighborhood.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)enough to know what their preferred weapons are, tire irons are a common weapon, though. There's one in every car, so they're easy to get ahold of, harder to trace than a knife or a gun, and more easily concealed than a bat.
I can think of at least one that used one: The Marine that beat the hell out of a Greek Orthodox priest with one in response to being asked for directions.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1050707.ece
MADem
(135,425 posts)That steroidal idiot in your little story whacked the priest four times and the priest ran from him and lived to tell the tale and finger the guy as a nutty liar. He didn't bludgeon the priest to DEATH in his own home. That's why the money paragraph in that little tale is this:
There's just no equivalency there. Perhaps you don't appreciate the amount of brute force needed to murder someone with a tire iron? It's hard work, as Porgie would say. Someone had to swing that thing repeatedly at close range with great intensity to beat the life out of that woman.
It was clearly an intimate act. I am pretty sure the woman knew her attacker--well. I'm betting the police have the weapon, too, and know which car it came out of...so tracing it isn't likely an issue.
We'll see.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)You can trip and hit your head on a flat surface and die pretty easily, the impact from a tire iron is more concentrated and has more velocity.
But yeah, in this case the guy put some work in to do that much damage. "Severely beaten" implies she was hit repeatedly. I don't think your theory is impossible or even improbable, just that people with the mentality of attacking someone for their nationality aren't really the most rational people around. So there's no telling what they might use or do, or where or how they might choose to do it.
I was just giving the reasons why people use tire irons, not the reason it was used in this particular case. I'm guessing the weapon was probably left at the scene, they frequently are.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I posted a few videos reporting on this story that include interviews with the daughter and the neighbor (who didn't see anything suspicious) elsewhere in this thread. They're interesting to watch.
I don't know what the truth is, but I am thinking the "tire iron-wielding, note-leaving hate-criming stranger-murderer" theory is probably not valid. I think this is closer to home.
JonLP24
(29,929 posts)that it was a family member rather than a bigot.
I somehow think the latter is more likely. But that's just me.
MADem
(135,425 posts)
chrisa
(4,524 posts)Some people aren't smart enough, and leave everything intact despite trying to fake a burglary after they murdered someone.
I wouldn't be surprised if this were a domestic abuse murder, and the father is trying to cover his tracks. It's not like this behavior is exclusive to Iraq-born families. Domestic abusers in the US have tried similar things - "She was robbed and shot!" or "Someone broke in and beat her to death!"
MADem
(135,425 posts)The neighbor who can see into their back yard didn't observe anything out of the ordinary in the neighborhood. She said the police were at the house for a LONG time, so I guess they aren't being cavalier when it comes to the forensic issues.
Skittles
(171,704 posts)still, my first thought was, check out the husband
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)"the darker impulses of the American spirit".
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)It could also have been a family member who killed her, and wanted to make it look like a hate crime.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)to hide the fact that "honor" was their motive. Honor killers "own it" when they commit such acts.
And...really, what could this woman have done that offended "honor" in any sense?
The article seems to make it clear that her family approved of the marriage...her husband worked with her father in the same business...she didn't seem to have left Iraq against her family's will...and we've been given no indication that she was ever, in any sense, unfaithful to her husband(not that ANY of those things would justify murder...just going through the normal list of "offenses" that have been known to lead to "honor killings" .
I'm pretty sure this was done by a non-Muslim American-and that most likely it was of some sort of bigoted intent.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)See post #7:
Also please note that she emigrated here 20 years ago, she was not a refugee from bushco's Iraq Invasion.
MADem
(135,425 posts)In Iraq, now, they do--and they hate it and resent it. The Chaldeans are being persecuted now, but this woman is likely not a Chaldean. She's probably a Shi'a, but she might be a Sunni from a family that had a beef with Saddam. She came here as a 12 year old kid, and three years later was married with a baby.
If I had to guess, I'll bet her husband was at least fifteen years older than her, and I'd also bet that her husband and her father were friends, who perhaps came out of Iraq around the same time, AND that her marriage was arranged.
I have a strong sense this crime was very personal. They need to get Dexter in there with his blood spatter kit.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)I jumped the gun because Caldeans are such a large proportion of the Iraqi population in SD.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And, if she was a Christian, that doesn't preclude an honor killing OR a hate crime. The practice of honor killings was/is cultural/regional, NOT religious, and was not invented by the Prophet or his followers.
AND most U.S. bigots don't understand that not everybody in the Arab world is a Muslim...and may not think it matters.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If they don't, they get chased down by fundies and beaten.
They wear a mantilla at mass, in the manner of traditional Catholicism, but not in the street.
I very much doubt this woman was any flavor of Christian.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Which means she was fourteen or fifteen when she got married.
Here in the USA.
She's been married for 17 or 18 years.
I'm guessing the husband is considerably older. I'm guessing the family business involves (or involved at one time) a close relationship with the USG or one of our allies.
It could well be that the parents of the 17 year old had already picked out a husband for their oldest Born In The USA daughter, and she wasn't having it. It could be the wife was tired of her older husband and was carrying on with a younger man, maybe even an in-law, and the husband wasn't having that, and he ordered his oldest daughter to lie for him after he clubbed his cheating wife in a fit of anger. We just don't know yet.
I think a "non-Muslim American" going into a predominantly Iraqi-American neighborhood (the 2nd largest one in the entire USA, with forty thousand residents) in the morning when people are going off to work and taking their kids to school (as the husband was doing) might just be NOTICED--particularly since the family was new to the neighborhood and I'm betting a lot of the neighbors were a bit curious about them, as people often are when someone new moves in. It could have happened, but I think it's less likely than a family scenario. Beating someone to death with a tire iron takes PERSONAL anger, PERSONAL intent--IMO. A Hate Crimer would use a Saturday Night Special and toss it--he wouldn't want to get spattered with blood. And why leave a note? I mean, really--makes no sense.
We'll see in time, though. I'll bet the police will figure this out fairly soon.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)Police always investigate family members first because they are the most likely to have simply killed out of anger.
cali
(114,904 posts)Please. How about the family in Ontario who murdered their three daughters and the husband's second wife? Of course they fucking tried to hide that honor was their motive. And the guy who killed his daughters in Texas? He fucking tried to hide it too.
We don't know who did this but frankly, it would be far odder if it was a stranger. Most intimate murders in the home are committed by family members or another close to the victim. And that really is a fact.
MADem
(135,425 posts)There was a glass sliding door broken at the back of the house...but the neighbor says the glass appeared to be broken OUTWARD--i.e., the blow came from inside the house.
That would kind of screw the "Someone broke in and did this" theory.
Something is just "off" with this story. Not sure what.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Caldeans do not participate in honor killings.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)People in all cultures have killed spouses and children in a burst of temper.
cali
(114,904 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)They are being brutalized in Iraq if they don't, and also being "taxed" for not being Muslim. It's pretty ugly these days--which is why a lot of them are leaving. It's a crying shame, their history in Iraq predates Islam.
Normally, though, they do not. They'll wear a hat in church, in the manner of old-school Catholics, but not in the street.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)I jumped to the Caldean conclusion because Caldeans are so ubiquitous in San Diego (if you know where to look).
They now own or operate about 80% of the quick stop liquour/tobacco stores in the county. They are very friendly and welcome anyone who recognizes their origins. At the store near our old house they made an effort to 'recycle' their day old sandwiches and stuff to the Mexicans who were waiting for work.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,664 posts)not a random "beat up an Arab" incident.
I suspect the note was deflection to cover up the motive.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)The doer was a family member, I would lay odds on it.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)It's plausible.
MADem
(135,425 posts)See the small box to the right: http://www.kplctv.com/story/17248478/woman-brutally-murdered-in-possible-hate-crime#
I feel terribly for the family, this is an egregious and very brutal, up-close-and-personal murder, but I would be lying if I didn't find it curious that the daughter is so eager to speak with the press and "solve the crime" (or advance her theory) before the body is even cold. Everyone expresses guilt differently, but it almost looks like she is smiling and trying to hide her smile behind that handkerchief. I'm just getting the "Susan Smith vibe."
And even if the area is a "hotbed" for supremacists, it's also a hotbed for forty thousand Iraqis. I can't imagine a supremacist being so stupid as to march into someone's home, not knowing their routines (how could they, since they were new in town?) and beat the shit out of of a woman and then leave...a NOTE?
Something just does not add up here. Of course, I freely acknowledge that I am no detective, either, and my "expertise" is limited to the bullshit I've also seen on TV and in murder mystery novels. Maybe that IS the way hatemongers do business. It just seems very, very strange to me.
Edit--another video here of the daughter speaking:
This news report says there was "some kind of" break in at the back of the house, apparently.
But in this video, the neighbor says it looks like the glass in the broken sliding glass door had shattered OUT--not in, and the police spent a lot of time at the scene.
&feature=watch_response
Ruby the Liberal
(26,664 posts)but it really is hard to get a sense of the young girl with those oversized sunglasses on.
The 'glass shattered out' as seen over the wall is rather interesting though.
I'm going to defer to the investigation, but have a feeling there is way more to this than is currently known/reported.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I don't know, I'm a pretty strong individual, myself, but if someone that close to me was beaten to death in my home, I think the very LAST thing I'd be doing is discussing my view of the case with the media while the warmth was still leaving the body of my beloved relative. I think I'd be in shock, in seclusion, and trying to get a friken grip. I might be bugging the cops to get a move on, but not talking to Channel This Number or Channel That Number.
It almost looks like she is covering a smile with that handkerchief, and she sounds like she's trying too hard to advance a theory.
I know what you mean, I feel like a heel, too, but I'm thinking about Susan Smith, the woman who cried about her babies that were stolen by a "carjacking black man" --and who got, for a brief moment, the sympathy of a nation because the country got to see video of the little ones playing in their house and they were rosy cheeked little darlings--when she herself actually put them in the lake.
I'm supposing the police may even have taken these interviews and done the little "voice stress test" thing, solely for the purpose of following leads, mind you, that is becoming popular now.
Time will tell. I'd rather be wrong, to be honest. It's an awful thing, I should think, for kids to grow up (and there are four little ones besides the 17 year old) knowing that a relative killed their mother.
Response to Hissyspit (Original post)
grantcart This message was self-deleted by its author.
MADem
(135,425 posts)This woman has been in USA for twenty years--since she was TWELVE. No one was persecuting Chaldeans twenty years ago, and even if they were, she would have burned her hijab the minute she landed in USA.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-03-22-christians-iraq_N.htm
Bombs and targeted killings are not the only threats facing Iraqi Christians. They also have to succumb to Islamic traditions enforced in parts of the country.
Zaid Frangoul said his wife is forced to wear a hijab, a head covering worn by Muslim women, each time they leave their Baghdad home for fear they'll be targeted by militants. They will leave Iraq as soon as his wife, who is pregnant, gives birth, he said.
villager
(26,001 posts)n/t
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)and leaving the note to make it look like it was some hate crime.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)I said I wouldn't rule it out.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Why rule it out?
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Murder among family members is extremely rare in Islamic countries.
While living in Malaysia, Indonesia and with Muslims in Thailand murder in any situation was very rare and among family members,
like it so frequently happens here, virtually unheard of.
So there is little reason to believe that any family member is involved here and the fact that you would see that it is possible in a case where a family received repeated written threats is without any foundation at all.
Here is a list of murder rates by country
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110518160742AAM0Ibu
The list tells that most of the countries listed are predominantly Christian countries including the bastions of the Western World: US, UK, France, Germany, South Africa, Canada and Australia. Though Muslim countries form one third of the total number of countries, only three Muslim countries, Yemen, Malaysia and Azerbaijan (that has more of a communist than Islamic history) appear in the list. There are no Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt and Indonesia, the countries that are supposed to be the biggest representatives of the Islamic world. Malaysia appears at the lower end. Obviously the murder rates in these countries as well as other Islamic countries are extraordinarily low. Most of the 60 odd Muslim countries occupy places in the last eighty countries.
So since there is little basis in fact or statistics to think that a muslim would be involved in a family related murder it would seem that you would go out of your way to include it in a case where the family has received multiple threats would be more of a reflection of your personal feelings than the facts in the case.
Beacool
(30,517 posts)They happen even here. I hope that's not the case, but we'll have to wait and see what the authorities discover.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... why would someone leave a note?
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)If the rednecks want to send a message to get out of their town, the note makes the beating more effective. It was perhaps intended to stop just the kind of speculation that is happening here.
obamanut2012
(29,368 posts)
aquart
(69,014 posts)32 with a 17 year old daughter.
I am not in charity with any man over this.
Zax2me
(2,515 posts)I refuse to call it honor killing.
Book tells Muslim men how to beat and control their wives
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/23/book-tells-muslim-men-how-to-beat-and-control-their-wives?fb_source=message
MADem
(135,425 posts)Now he's got five kids to raise--or his 17 year old daughter will have to raise the other four.
This was a woman who had been married since she was a young teen--she had that eldest daughter when she was fifteen years old. And she'd lived here since she was 12.
The guy had to be a cool cucumber, if he could whack his wife with a tire iron, take the younger kids to school, and leave the body for his daughter to find...unless he told her to STFU and lie for him...?
I do think this was a "personal"--not a stranger--murder. I am curious to learn the circumstances. I think the police will figure it out.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)But you get extra points for trying to find a way to slur Muslims in this thread. And the book at your right wing link has been out for two years and is not news in any way.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)receiving the same treatment that our goverment reserves for other terrorists.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Fox News exist.
sdfernando
(6,084 posts)That is not far, maybe 10 or 15 miles, from me. El Cajon, Isn't that represented by that car theif Darrel Issa?? Why don't they target him? He is of mid-eastern (or very close) descent isn't he???
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)Issa is further north. I believe Issa is of Lebanese descent. In any case, El Cajon is a very "RED" place to be politically speaking.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)This is fucking tragic.
The thugs that did this need to be dropped down a well, permanently.
cali
(114,904 posts)I'm one of those on this thread that finds the situation extremely odd. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that someone would break into this house, brutally beat the shit out of this woman and then leave a note by her head. It sounds more personal than that.
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)it "must" be personal because the killing was so brutal. What? Haven't you ever heard of Skinheads, White Supremecists, and other hate groups? Hate crimes have been brutal for centuries: lynchings, "curbings," stompings, dragging people behind trucks, drawing and quartering, and just plain beating the shit out of people have been vicious and brutal murder methods for a long time. "Brutally beating the shit out of" somebody does not require that you know someone well. It requires hatred and a lack of conscience.
cali
(114,904 posts)And because it happened in her home- the vast majority of murders in the home are committed by someone the victim knows well. that's just a fact.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The more we learn, the more this thing starts to stink.
She wasn't a recent arrival from Michigan, she graduated from High School in San Diego. She'd been there since 1996. Her brothers and her husband worked for the US Army. They were a shi'a family. They left Iraq when Saddam started cracking down on Shi'as back in the early 90s. Her father is still in Iraq and he's a cleric.
Two links downthread with more info.
OrwellwasRight
(5,312 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It might have been a family member. In that case, though, it's usually charged as murder.
Beacool
(30,517 posts)Poor woman what a horrible thing to happen to her and what a shock it must have been for her daughter to find her like that.
Although, I do wonder what really happened. Was this indeed a hate crime or was it an honor killing? Either way, a young mother is dead.
My condolences to her children and loved ones.
Liberty Belle
(9,707 posts)Her father was a Shia cleric and her body is being flown back to Iraq; the Iraqi govt. is paying for this expense.
Also a Facebook page called one million hijabs for Shaima Alawadi has been set up.
Many more details at the link above.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)I wonder why so-called journalist don't ask or report the big details?
1. What is the time window of the murder
2. Was the 17 year old daughter home when the murder occurred?
3. The father was dropping the kids off at school, what time does school start.
4. Why is the broken glass on the outside where it looks like someone broke it from the inside?
5. What happened to the original note?
MADem
(135,425 posts)And it's probably why they aren't ruling anything out. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-iraqi-woman-20120326,0,190790.story
"We're investigating all aspects of this crime," Lt. Mark Coit said Sunday. "The minute you rule out a possible motive, you start to get tunnel vision. As of now, we have not ruled out any of the motives for why people kill people."
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Why the rush to return the body back to Iraq?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Also, the "tire iron" is not necessarily the weapon used. I posted more news downthread. The police are not calling this a hate crime, yet. They aren't ruling ANYTHING out, which is sensible. They've also called in the FBI.
The husband isn't working--he used to work for the US Army, but he's on disability now. They had been living in San Diego for years--they are NOT newcomers from Michigan, the dead woman went to high school in San Diego. They recently moved to that house about two months ago, and they were renting.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The body is to be flown back to Iraq. Her father is a shi'a cleric there. Some Iraqi legislators seek an investigation into the crime.
The reason that the woman's family left Iraq was due to a crackdown on Shi'a's (who are now in the catbird seat, so to speak, but were oppressed when Saddam was in power) by Saddam Hussein.
Her brothers and her husband all had jobs working for the US Army.
She graduated from high school in SAN DIEGO in 1996. Apparently, this notion that they had just moved from Michigan is not accurate. They moved into the house in El Cajon two months previously, but had moved from Dearborn much earlier, apparently...?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=149388607
The POLICE aren't ruling anything in or out--they aren't "characterizing" the crime, either--their choice of words is rather interesting, here:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-iraqi-woman-20120326,0,190790.story
...Police said that whatever the motive, the attack appears to be "an isolated event," not part of an overall pattern of violence toward immigrants.
Coit said police are unsure about the murder weapon but that Alawadi was beaten with a large object.
Alawadi's husband had reportedly left earlier to take the couple's younger children to school.