MH17 Shootdown May Have Been A 'mistake' By Pro-Russian Rebels: US
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by DonViejo (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).
Source: Agence France-Presse
Malaysian flight MH17 may have been shot down by 'mistake' by ill-trained pro-Russian separatists, US intelligence officials said on Tuesday, while dismissing Moscow's accounts of the incident as propaganda.
Evidence gathered so far suggests separatists launched the SA-11 surface-to-air missile that blew up the Malaysian airliner on July 17, but it remains unclear "who pulled the trigger" and why, said a senior intelligence official who spoke on condition of anonymity.
"The most plausible explanation... was that it was a mistake," and that the missile was fired by "an ill-trained crew" using a system that requires some skill and training, the official said.
The intelligence official cited previous incidents over the years in which both Russian and US forces have mistakenly shot down civilian airliners.
Read more: http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/mh17/mh17-shootdown-may-have-been-mistake-by-pro-russian-rebels-us/article1-1243522.aspx#sthash.JcfR5jLZ.dpuf
Cha
(297,184 posts)hundreds of people aboard. Just one more "military plane" for them to shoot down.
It has been implied it was a terrorist act. It's interesting the US is backing off suddenly. Our government lied about TWA800 which almost all credible sources agree was mistakenly shot down by a US missile during a training excercise. I personally know the engineer CNN brought on to dismiss this theory and he got in trouble for disguising end use research for fuel air explosions as elevator shaft dust explosions while doing military research previously banned at the university.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Are they the same ones that think Bush LIHOP?
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)They were talking about this on CNN earlier. The definition seems pretty sketchy at best. Osama bin Laden, no brainer. I would probably lean toward a more liberal usage of the word. Here is the FBI's own definition:
18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism:
"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.
The other issue is the choice to fly over Ukrainian airspace. While I don't blame the pilots or the airline, they were going through an area that was dangerous. Supposedly they were up high enough that they would have been safe, but as one of the guest said 32,000 feet was the minimum requirement, the pilot actually asked for 35,000 and was told no. Now why they were told no and whether it would have made a difference are questions that needs to be asked.
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)The BUK system's missiles can reach altitudes of 72000 feet.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Yeah it would have been toast either way.
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)MH 17 was also using an alternate flight corridor to avoid a large thunderstorm. How ironic that a decision by the pilot to ensure the safety of his passengers and crew led to their mass murder.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Their failure to make the distinction makes them terrorists.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)should be considered. They are still murders all the same.
daleo
(21,317 posts)Everyone was sober, well trained and had the best equipment in the world. Why assume this shootdown was due to drunken behaviour, when there are several precedents of highly trained, sober, professional armed forces who shot down civilian airliners. It looks to me like mistakes can happen in combat zones, even when top notch troops are involved.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)The same goes for those who picked the victims clean of their valuables.
Cha
(297,184 posts)is in major Chris Christie mode.. deny deny deny.. they know Nothing except when they let it slip.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Oh wait, they have RT news.
Cha
(297,184 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Maynar
(769 posts)that "Ill-trained crew" got "lucky?"
If thet were that badly trained it's more likely they would have missed altogether. You don't just point in the general direction and yell, "PULL!"
No, this excuse is bullshit and just the first of more to come. Fucking Russians downed that bird, and they knew exactly what they were doing.
lapfog_1
(29,199 posts)the crew simply needs to launch the thing and point in the general direction of a plane, especially one that puts out a nice heat signature and isn't doing any counter measures.
However, identify friend or foe is a much harder thing for these sorts of systems, when run by likely untrained non-military types (even with a few "advisers" along).
daleo
(21,317 posts)So, clearly, identifying friend and for is difficult. I am glad that you are reminding us of that.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Anything above 7,500 m should not have even been considered a target.
bluedigger
(17,086 posts)The only plausible benefactor would be Ukraine, but their capacity to perform such subterfuge is dubious. Lethal mistakes are still subject to review by international law, and the perpetrators should be held accountable.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Ukraine is of course using the fog of war to inflict as much damage as possible on the rebels (with great success) but the civilian casualties (from both sides fighting) are enormous. This could brew lasting resentment in Ukraine. Especially because they are exploiting the situation to ban the Communist Party in Ukraine. Basically whatever they can get away with without anyone noticing.
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)Duplicate of this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014853225