Autopsy Shows Michael Brown Was Struck at Least 6 Times

[enigmatic]

Source: New York Times

FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was killed by a police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found.

One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?smid=tw-bna

[itsrobert]

1. I thought he was shot in the back while fleeing?

I guess this autopsy doesn't support what some eyewitnesses said.

[bravenak]

4. There is always the possibility that the shots fired at his back missed.

I'd be surprised if every shot hit him. He should have kept running. This still does not explain how he got shot in the TOP of his head. That kinda proves the witnesses right. He was shot while on his knees.

[billhicks76]

8. Witness

A witness said they came to her house or nearbye building and removed a bullet.

[bravenak]

10. What??

I guess he did miss.

[840high]

13. Witnesses are not always reliable.

[mackerel]

22. The report says, not at close range, so it does support that part

of what eyewitnesses said.

[itsrobert]

30. "Did not appear.."

The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range
because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that
determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot

Not as definitive.

[stranger81]

32. No coroner worth their salt would use more definitive language in any situation.

They weren't there at the scene, so they can't say without qualification what actually happened. All they can do is report what the evidence appears to show, and attempt to reconstruct the events at the scene that way.

[JimDandy]

55. Baden stated the police did not allow him access to Brown's clothes

so he said he could not definitively say (a few of the shots were where clothes would have covered his body).

[justiceischeap]

99. The question I have is did the original coroner wash the body

after completing the initial autopsy? If they did, then no gun residue would be found on the body anyway and the clothing becomes much more important in determining the range the shots were fired at.

[TheBlackAdder]

72. What disturbs me is, if his hands were raised, these shots seem to be HEAD SHOT attempts.

If you look at the coroner's drawings, the entry points on the arm seem to indicate the palm was facing forward.

The only logical way this could have happened is if his arms were raised.

Being such, unless he was bent forwards while surrendering, the shots all indicate shoulder level or higher targeting.

===

I thought police were to aim at body mass, not the head, when trying to incapacitate or kill a person.

===

The entry point on top of the head also suggests a surrender, face down position...

unless the officer shot him after he collapsed on the ground, though witness testimony suggests that the shooting stopped by the time he fell.

[harun]

124. I was thinking the same. All head shot attempts.

[jtuck004]

149. The entry point on top of the head also suggests a surrender, face down position < OR that they

are coming at you, charging.

[Judi Lynn]

73. Why would they step forward to lie, anyway? Maybe you know what happened. n/t

[PoliticAverse]

107. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, unfortunately...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

[bravenak]

2. So it is apparent that Mike was shot while he was on his knees.

He was too tall to be shot in the top of his head unless he was already down. Murder. He was already disabled before the officer fired the finishing shot.

[itsrobert]

5. That might be it

I don't know any other way to explain a bullet entering at the top of his head. He must have been down already.

[bravenak]

6. Unless the officer was ten feet tall.nt

[Travis_0004]

9. Read the report

This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.

[itsrobert]

11. So if he is charging toward the officer

he might be bent over in a charging motion trying to be a smaller target.

[Travis_0004]

12. people tend to bend down when running

Either way dont ask me I didnt write the report.

[itsrobert]

14. True, especially when they first start their sprint

n/t

[bravenak]

15. Did you see a police report from the officer?

I haven't. He was twenty feet away from the victim. No gunshot residue. His head was nowhere near the officer for the officer to be scared of him charging. Besides, he had already been shot at least four times. The top of the head shot was a finishing move.

[SwankyXomb]

50. Now that they have something that vaguely supports the police fiction

they can go ahead and start writing the report.

[bravenak]

63. Fuuuuck.

You're right.

[Iamthetruth]

106. Why?

I want the truth, not some spin job to support one side or the other.

[bravenak]

108. I do too.

But I don't think we cam get that from the local cops.

[TorchTheWitch]

151. The local police aren't doing the investigation

That decision was made right from the beginning. The county and the FBI are. The FBI has also been requested to do their own autopsy.

With so much scrutiny and so many other agencies involved there's no way anything is going to be able to be spun in one direction or the other. More often than not it's the police department pissed off about corruption because that usually comes from the prosecutor on up the ladder.

Read up on the Palladium club shooting back in the early 90's I think it was where the police where completely thwarted and the wrong people rotted in prison for the crime no matter what evidence officers came up with to show it was the wrong people and pointing out who was the right ones. I still don't know if both of the wrong people inexplicably jailed for years were ever let out. I think one of them was after about 15 years, but not sure about the other one. Stomach churning corruption that was, but it wasn't by the police. At least one of the officers quit and continued to pursue the matter on his own he was so disgusted. I'm pretty sure there's also a Dateline or 48 Hours show about it. From what I remember the prosecutor at the time had risen to a pretty high up political position and tried to thwart the new information six ways to Sunday. And the scumbucket still claims that the right people went to jail for that even though at least one of them was finally let out.

That's one of the worst cases I can think of off the top of my head, but this crap happens all the time.

[MADem]

103. They might also bow their head after being shot in the EYE. nt

[OnlinePoker]

143. I was thinking about body shots and Brown collapsing forward.

The cop just kept shooting until the clip was empty and the bullet in the top of his head might have been one of the later ones as the body fell forward.

[MADem]

146. I think that theory makes sense. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

54. Warning: GRAPHIC video - "...shot him some more while he was on the ground"

is what a person, taping the aftermath of the execution, says in his video. You can hear it at 0:50. More at 1:17: "Said he had his hands up and everything. They still shot him. He fell on the ground, they stood over him and shot him some more."

#t=11

So that can explain the head and neck shots.

[yuiyoshida]

113. I could not watch the video but wanted

to read the comments at the youtube.com website. Totally disgusting. I flagged so many racist comments, the page was starting to look like a green orchard. I do not know how people can live with themselves, hating on others like that. That kind of hatred is just going to eat them up someday! This country sure has a long, long way to go before people even accept one another.

[deafskeptic]

154. I didn't watch the vid on youtube because I knew the comments would be here.

Everything is just messed up. We need accountability at all levels of police depts. I developed a deep distrust of cops when I lived in an apt complex. Half of that complex had African-Americans living there and this was a mostly white neighborhood. The place was crawling with cops.

I was already leery of them because I am deaf and miscommunication with cops can have tragic and even fatal results for the deaf. Every so often I get reports about police misconduct regarding the deaf on my newsfeed.

When I moved away to a new apt complex, I hardly ever saw any cops. It was mostly white. Something sucks here.

[sheshe2]

19. I have a hard time even reading the article.

I weep, bravenak.

If there was a tug of war for that gun, it was because the officer released it from his safety clip. Why would he do that if he only told them to get on the sidewalk?

This story stinks! You are right, he was down when that shot was fired. Yes murder! Mike was already down! Then cuff him and bring him in. Why the hell would that bastard just shoot him to death, was he a threat then? No he was not!

Fuck them!

[bravenak]

20. The apologists are disgusting too.

Twice in the head. From twenty feet away. That could be my husband.

[sheshe2]

27. The apologists can kiss my ass for their stupidity!

Twice in the head. From twenty feet away. That could be my husband.

Twice in the head for no reason that I can see. That it could have been your husband,,,

To you sweetie I love ya.

Stay safe and stay strong

[bravenak]

28. We will avoid cops.

I feel safer with crackheads than cops right now. Love you too.

[Ecumenist]

70. DAFUQQ does that mean? Black mean are like GORILLAS? Please tell me that you're being

sarcastic because it doesn't read that way...

[bravenak]

74. Gotta be sarcasm.

I refuse to believe otherwise.

[Ecumenist]

76. I hope that but Bravenak, girl, I have a problem with folks making comments like that....

the ONLY reason that I haven't alerted on that comment is because I am trying to give this person to clarify what they meant. I refuse to stand down when people make overtly racist and nasty comments like that.

[bravenak]

77. Oh, good.

I'll wait for clarification too. That was a shocking post, but it seems like people can say the craziest shit and it'll stand. I wanted to alert, but I just don't want to piss myself off when it passes. I have been seeing some nasty shit the last few days.

[Ecumenist]

80. I've noticed some 'ish too and I have made myself a little scarce because I don't want to show my

natural behind with idiots. I figure I'll give them another 12 hours to clarify their position and then I will alert....This 'ish HAS TO STOP. PERIOD.

[bravenak]

81. I've noticed the dumbest excuses.

Like, he tried to ram his head in to the cop from twenty feet away. Or, 'he wasn't shot in the BACK!" Like shooting in the top of the head is somehow better than the back? This place needs a cleanse.

[Ecumenist]

82. It's pathetic that flat out racists, mysogynists and other vermin in human clothing seem to

be invading this place. When I joined back on 2004, I was attracted by a sense of fraternity, humanity and progressive causes. OH how it seems to have changed and I'll never buy the fact that the present occupant of the Oval Office has nothing to do with it. As a black woman, I've spent SO MUCH time PISSED OFF and DISGUSTED by the FRANK racism I've seen here since the election of Obama. It became even more naked with the murder of Trayvon....

[bravenak]

83. During the entire trial i was infuriated.

I think this s going to dwarf the Zimmerman bullshit. It already had a nastier feel to it, and more straight up in your face racism. For some reason, I get it everyday. Every day so far of this shit I get Name Removed or crazy stuff posted to me. And if they use "fake quotes" it passes the jury.
Maybe it's my avatar? Somebody sent me pictures of black people with money and cheeseburgers to prove that black poverty is, well I'm not sure why they sent me the pictures. Oh, and the people in the pictures were obese, with money, jewelry, and nice cars and clothes. I guess that was the "welfare queens" thing.

Racists ass posts should be an automatic account review.

[Ecumenist]

84. You'll get no argument from me....I don't understand why these things get a pass as if it isn't

offensive and insulting. I'm the wrong one for someone to send me something nasty and racist. There'd be a good chance of someone coming up missing if they sent me that. Why did noone do anything? did you show anyone what was sent to you? That is about 9 miles past racist.

[bravenak]

85. They got banned almost instantly.

They posted it and i was disgusted. Then mirt got them. That was a bad one. The others, well, it's hit and miss. I think some people act cool until stuff like this happens and the go out of control. When the trial comes up. It will be insane around here.

[Ecumenist]

88. I think that we should NOT accept that this is something that inevitable. Let's NOT accept this 'is

this time because trust me, if the shoe were on the other foot, it would not be something that they would accept....PERIOD. If a young white child were MURDERED by a black cop, there would something happening her just shy of a bloody riot...

[bravenak]

89. That's the only reason I'm still here.

I feel like things need to be noticed and I have a big mouth.

[Ecumenist]

90. Wow, I didn't know I was one of a set of twins.... NICE TAMEETCHA because I have a BIG ASS

Mouth too and my 6'6" husband will tell you that I DO NOT BACK DOWN. People want to play the racist game.Good but guess what? I'm going to get REAL Gullah/Geechee on folks here. I think that folks need to have the crap scared out of them and force them to think to twice before they try to sneak in some 3rd reich/ kuklux shit. Wanna play? Fine but trust me, I will play the game MUCH better than them.

[bravenak]

91. Wow!! That does sound like me.

I smiled when I got called the worst racist on DU. I think you might have missed the tine I pissed everybody off with my scary posts about the non-majority white future. I think alot of this is fear of retribution amplified. People are going to look back at this stuff and be horrified. I'm using these threads to know who to keep an eye on.

[Ecumenist]

92. Me too. Alot of times, I read the trash that is posted get mad as hell, cussing and really

trying to remember that my mom raised a lady and a christian one at that but I will be challenging every single racist and/or apologist I see on here in the days and weeks to come... Where are you in the country? I'm in northern California, near the capitol, Sacramento but I'm a native Angelena.

[bravenak]

93. I'm from L.A.

That's whats up. I'll be right there with you.

[Ecumenist]

94. OMG... I was born at Cedars Sinai and lived in Compton, right off of Alondra

between Alondra, Atlantic, Long Beach and Rosecrans. Paramount was right over the bridge/overpass and Carson was just a hop,skip and a jump. It wasn't like it is now, with the shooting and drugs. I had really nice memories about my time there. I also lived in Pacific Palisades when I was very young and had a nanny from Belize. I prefer northern California... ALOT of water and BEAUTIFUL vistas. I still have family in the southland. They moved the Moreno Valley.

[bravenak]

95. That's crazy.

I was born at Hollywood Presbyterian, lived on Adams and Clyde, near the 405. And Long Beach, Tustin, Tarzana, Bakersfield, all over. Even on Imperial and Avalon, and down on Vernon. I lived there during the shooting and the drugs. It was still a good place to be for me. It got crazy for a while, then calmed down. I loved living in Long Beach and LA, and the Valley. Not Bakersfield. Never will i go back there.

[Ecumenist]

96. Girl, Bakersfield is the 3rd ring of hell. The only place I despise more than Bakersfield is

phoenix, hell the ENTIRE state of Arizona. If that place suddenly disappeared along with Bakersfield AND Fresno, I would through a week long party.

[bravenak]

97. Me too!!

[MADem]

147. I've been a little, well, shocked at some of the comments I have seen here.

From people who are supposedly in good standing, too.

[bravenak]

87. "Black men are like gorillas enough."

Just wanted to be able to pull this up instantly if needed. That way I will always remember this moment.

Very strange comment.

[ancianita]

112. I'm still waiting for the poster's explanation, and ready to hit the Alert button.

This shit should not ANY where, nevermind around here.

[bravenak]

115. It's like the onion right now.

I can't tell if I'm seeing real shit, or parody.

[ancianita]

116. In this context, it's better to err on the side of sincerity, or else it's cheap insincerity.

[bravenak]

117. It's getting worse, isn't it?

I feel the change. It was beneath the surface, simmering. Now it comes out, i can smell the rot.

[ancianita]

118. Hopefully, it's a sign of healing. The rot has to get cleansed before healing starts.

Just know that you're not alone in your assessment of the smell and feel of everything.

[bravenak]

119. Time to write another poem about it.

Little by little, you prick my soul


With your needles of hate.


Slap, turn cheek, slap, turn cheek


I have run out of face.


As much as you words bruise me,


Your indifference wounds me more.


I have been wronged! An injustice I say!


You hurry to point your dirty finger my way.


Look at you! Your clothes, your hair,


Your style, your flair.


What did you do?


Was it your mouth,


Was it your glare?


You shouldn't have even been there!


Why must I


Be held to a higher standard


Than the next guy?


I know why.


When you look like me,


You toe the line


Or you die.


I am so pissed!!!!

[ancianita]

122. Keep going. Keep writing. This is ON on so many levels. Pour it out. No more masks.

[bravenak]

123. I think we all feel a bit hopeless right now. I don't know what else to do. Hopeless.

No hope


For the child


Growing up


On the wrong side


Of the racial divide.


Giving up, on the future


You can be, whatever you want to be


But not me.


I scare you by my presence


Grew too big, too tall, too black


To be trusted.


I feel your eyes on me,


Judging me an animal,


To be hunted.


Should I shuck, should I jive?


Just for the chance to stay alive?


Or just be me and die?


Nondescript faces,


They notice me not.


Except to see,


That they look different than me.


Folding myself within myself,


I try to fit in your box,


Like an animal caged,


Inside I seethe


Considered a danger


In the land of the Free


I’ll always be a stranger.

[ancianita]

125. Feeling this. Thank you. I hate that you're made to feel this way. I'm staying mad, FWIW.

[bravenak]

126. Let's both stay mad. We don't have to take this shit.

[ancianita]

127. Made that clear to all the black and white people I know. Stay strong. Anger is potent right now.

[bravenak]

128. Look at this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025404745

[ancianita]

129. Yep. Some shit that both helps diminish all the other shots and STILL proves premeditation.

It will prop the civil rights charges and help up the family's charges.

[bravenak]

130. I agree.

It was an execution. That much is certain. This cop will go down in history as the cause of the Ferguson movement. The cops were the ones doing most of the rioting. Our grandchildren will study this and probably read through the posts from us who were alive now.

The will judge us brutally. Well, not us, but the police state.

[ancianita]

131. And us, too, for learning so slowly. Moving on is what we've done too much of. Tending to wounds is

what we've done too little of.

[bravenak]

132. Wr are making a mess of it.

We can do better. Otherwise the circle of abuse will continue. It's time for us to be damn tired of this shit. If enough of us, all colors get pissed enough, it will end.

[ancianita]

133. Hope you're right. I'm pretty old and haven't seen enough colors get pissed to force its end yet.

Too many racists trained up in each new generation by manipulated force and fear -- from families, media, talk -- and the diminishment of public education has diminished mediated institutional exposure and civic unity. Still, this is a movement that needs amplifying.

[bravenak]

135. I agree.

I won't shut up. Ever. I'm to pissed. I will tell my grandchildren about this shit. One day.

[cyberswede]

138. I feel sick.

[bravenak]

140. It somehow makes it worse.

Like he didn't see him as human.

[bettyellen]

145. If it makes you feel better, it was a 7-0 hide. All too rare these days.

On Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:20 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Black men are like gorillas
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=873445

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Blatant racism.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Aug 18, 2014, 11:36 AM, and the Jury voted 7-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I can only hope this post is sarcasm, but without any additional context I have to err on the side of hiding.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm hoping this is some kind of sarcasm, but it needs to be hidden regardless.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Possibly just a sarcastic summation of the apologist view, but poster did not clarify when asked to do so,.so I vote to hide
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Voting to hide, and I would further suggest closing this member's account for a blatantly racist post, with the caveat that if he/she can explain what is meant (because it does seem ambiguous), then the account can be re-opened.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: However this might have been meant, it's a racist statement. I vote to hide, without any question at all.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm hoping the poster intended to be sarcastic or ironic, but on the surface it sure does look racist and stupid.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Sparhawk60]

152. To Many Windows Open

I assume he had stormfront up on another window and he meant for that post to go to the stormfront forums. lol

[ancianita]

110. Explain yourself.

[bettyellen]

136. What the fucking fuck? Disgusting.

[vlyons]

29. the cop shot him to death because

he was enraged and lost control of himself. He was enraged because a black man did not immediately Stepin Fetchit follow orders. Yazsir yazsir. Isa goin' Isa goin'. I've noticed a lot of reports about Ferguson cops having absolutely no patience whatsoever when citizens don't immediately hop to and follow police orders. That behavior, the no patience behavior, is taught. It would be good to know what cops are taught at their police academy.

[Moostache]

45. That won't come from the academy...

That is passed down from officer to officer at the station and on the beat. That kind of intolerance and attitude is definitely a learned behavior, but its more "unspoken code" than "academy instruction".

[JimDandy]

46. On his knees and almost certainly with his arms up.

The autopsy shows his right arm had four bullet holes in it that would be at head and chest height if his arms were up. That's the kill shot area that police officers are trained to shoot at--head and chest. Not stomach and thighs, which is the level that three of the holes would have been at were Brown's hands down.

Definitely not looking good now for Officer Darrin Wilson.

[bravenak]

49. And the shot in the palm of his hand shows his palms were facing the shooter.

I thought cops were supposed to chase a fleeing suspect, not fire upon them. Especially for a jaywalking ticket.

[JimDandy]

57. Yes, once he started fleeing there was zero reason to shoot

Adrenalin, racism, Brown's lack of deference to his authority...now any and all of those I can imagine would have set this officer into shoot-to-kill until dead, dead, dead mode.

[bravenak]

59. Sad state of affairs.

The world is watching the "Land of the Free Home of the Racists".

[pangaia]

104. It is not necessarily apparent that he was 'on his knees'

when shot in the head. His head could have simply been bent forward.

[bravenak]

105. It was apparent to me.

Since all if the witnesses say that and there is no police report disputing that. Also, he was shot in the palm like he had his hands raised, and he had just been shot in the face. So, yeah, after a face shot, most people fall, at least to their knees, if not collapsing. I believe the full autopsy from the feds will prove it.

[SummerSnow]

148. He was murdered. Wondering if it was point blank range?

[TorchTheWitch]

150. Baden said that he could have been bent forward charging

It also could be that the shots were fired in such rapid succession that body movements were involuntary due to previous shots. No way to know just from where the bullets hit what position Brown was in or why. Without knowing the trajectory, the position of the shooter which shot hit first, second, third, etc. and what the body likely did involuntarily or purposefully with each shot in that rapid time frame. A lot of information like that isn't likely to be known just from whatever tests are done. Even gunshot range is iffy though they can usually determine if the gun barrel was touching the skin or within a range of inches, but passed that range is pretty up in the air.

I remember the ME in the Jodi Arias case in court explaining close shooting and I think it was call "stippling" that had something to do with gun powder in the outskirts of the wound where the bullet enters. I can't remember who he was, but he was very good at explaining this sort of thing in such a way as to make it easily understood by the lay person. There was also the gunshot findings in the Pastorias case, but with Reeva being in a tiny little toilet room there wasn't a lot of positions she could have been in or could have fallen in.

I also just read a couple of hours ago that conversation was heard in the background of someone that was filming what was going on immediately after the shooting where two guys were discussing what happened, and one of them said that Brown started to run but turned back and ran back toward the police when the shots were fired (at least the ones that hit him). The police have already said that at least one shot was fired inside the car but I don't remember them saying anything about where that shot went, so no idea if that was the first shot that struck Brown or not (or maybe the police don't even know that for certain yet).

I also read another article (or maybe it was the same one) that said that Brown's body fell just outside the door of the police car. I can't find the article(s) now though I've been looking for them since I was reading whatever was available and following one link after another. I thought I could just page back and find it again, but I must have already paged back at some point before that article and went in another direction because I went all the way back to the first page and it didn't show up again. I freakin' hate it when I forget to bookmark! I don't even remember what the source was though it would have been some legitimate news outlet since I never bother with blogs and weirdo sources especially if most of the other news is celebrity rubbish and run away from anything with American flags all over the place since that's always a dead giveaway of some crazy conservative crap.

Ugh. I really dislike talking about coroner's reports. The very idea of what they do just makes my stomach flip over. As far as I'm concerned it's the most hideous job in the world. Just, EEEWWWW.

[bravenak]

153. Conversations in the background are not witness statements.

So, I take unnamed 'witnesses' with a grain of salt.

If you look at the video, his body was nowhere near the car. The actual witnesses, all four of the (i know they're black, but yeah) say he chased the victim while firing.

Third of all. The information you are spreading is from rightwing sources, I have read them too, and they are all bullshit.

Fourth of all. The only ME report released says there was NO gunshot residue on the victim, or the car, and the county ME is holding onto the clothes and will not release them for testing. Still, if it was like you say, there should b GSR all over the car and the victim. There is not.

The evidence does NOT support the cops version, a version that has NOT been released by the department, just parroted by the chief.

Fifth of all. The cops removed bullets from a home in the area. Bullets that did nit strike Mr.Brown.

The police department has been engaging in character assassination and are covering up there own crimes. That cop went from a jaywalking stop to shooting a kid at LEAST 6 times.

Would you repeat the same drivel if it were your child or nephew who was dead in the streets for a jaywalking stop? No. You need to empathize with the person who needs empathy. An right now, we do not need anymore people blaming us when the cops go off the chin and kill another black man.


You would never have to be grabbed and assaulted for jaywalking. And the whole 'he reached for my gun!" Shit has been repeated over and over by cops who kill black men.

There is no way, that he reached for the mans gun from outside of the goddamn car, what type of sense does that make? You have to completely suspend reality to believe that nonsense. Or just want to believe the worst, least common sensical shit about that kid, on that day.


He reached for my gun is a cop out. They always use that excuse. GZ certainly did and he was just a wanna be cop.

That gun was in his holster on his right hip in the photo. No where near the car door. In an SUV. No fucking way he reached for , nor could he actually grab his weapon from there. Unless he had ten foot arms. Calling bullshit on this minimization of the life value of Mr. Brown and the mental gymnastics it takes to believe this smorgasbord of lies.

[VA_Jill]

3. I think

one might conceivably call that overkill. /snark

[freshwest]

7. I thought he was shot in the chest. It still doesn't say how far away he was, though.

Reports I heard said he was twenty feet away, no reason to shoot someone so far away. That's the issue, and he was not armed so not a threat fron a distance, either.

[JimDandy]

52. One entered his right chest

according to Baden's autopsy.

[freshwest]

62. Just saw another report on that, after I posted.

4 in the right arm, 2 in the head and now this one in the chest. And bullets went into the wall of an apartment nearby.
None of this had to happen, he was at a distance and had no gun to harm the policeman at a distance.

A post on DU said cop did not know about any robbery, so there was no reason to assume he was dangerous. Wilson was driving by and yelling at Brown for jaywalking.

When he didn't get out of the street Wilson backed up, nearly running him over. Road rage is my read on it.

[JimDandy]

67. Well, something is off on the count...

Dr Baden said only six bullets entered his body. Perhaps the wound shown in his right chest was a reentry wound?

Yes, white hot rage seems to be the best reason for this loss of life. I doubt that's an acceptable legal defense for murder in MO.

[freshwest]

71. Yeah, it's confusing. Maybe it was only one head wound. But really beside the point. There was no

self-defense of the LEO in this as he was a distance away and unarmed. Front, back, side, doesn't matter, he was twenty feet away from the LEO.

And hands up according witnesses and the palm entry, facing the LEO, not away. Could have been fleeing just as said; and the sound of the shot at the building may have made him turn around to say 'don't shoot.'

As you say, rage is not a defense. No less than a case of manslaughter, but it looks more like murder. By definition, murder is an unlawful killing, even if it's by a lawman. That seems to be forgotten, even though authorities have more leeway as they are trained to use lethal force as a last resort, if there is a threat to life. That killing is ceded to them in a nation where people kill daily.

I want a trial to see what the witnesses say and what possible way he could ever defend this, as I don't think he can. He might plead to a lesser charge like manslaughter. But he can't just walk away from this altogether. And the FBI is on the case, now.

[Ineeda]

139. Apparently, according to Baden, the chest wound

was caused by the face shot that traversed his neck and entered the chest. (From news conference with Baden this morning.) Though Baden didn't comment on it, I find it curious that the face shot traveled DOWNWARD. Odd, if Michael was shot while standing. The top of the head shot clearly hit when he was down or at least head-down. All the wounds except the 'kill shot' in the top of Michael's head was survivable, even the one to his face. Baden's diagram, shown during the presser, might be available online. Horrible, shameful America we live in. RIP Mike Brown.

[jonno99]

16. Was MB rushing the police officer?

According to one witness Mike Brown "ran at" the officer

listen starting ~6:28

[bravenak]

18. He Opens the video by saying "killed him for no reason"

Y'all sign up just for this?

[jonno99]

21. Its one of the guys talking in the background who appently saw what happened....

[bravenak]

23. Yeah. He saw him 'kill him for no reason'

[Gore1FL]

41. The whole thing started at the door of the police vehicle.

He was over a car length away when shot dead.

If he was charging, he was either really bad at it, or taking an inexplicably circuitous route.

[The Magistrate]

43. He Does Not Say He 'Ran At' The Officer, Sir

What the voice you refer to says is that he ran from the officer, then turned around.

If you are going to blow off an identity hoarded for six years, at least do it competently....

[JimDandy]

64. That's would be quite the sleeper cell.

Waking up now only to toss out a 'black teen ran at the police officer' post. Perhaps the confusion was brought on from the long sleep.

[The Magistrate]

66. Sign-Up Date 11/1/08, Sir....

And all of four posts to its name, two of them here in this thread tonight....

[Judi Lynn]

75. Bizarre. Not hard to guess the motivation. n/t

[Moostache]

51. This entire incident is sickening, but none more than that 10 minutes..

NO ONE TRYING TO COVER THE BODY?
ALLOWING A DEAD BODY TO SIT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET LIKE ROADKILL????

I am outraged beyond words by this as I was last weekend when it was live on my TV here in St. Louis.

The silence from the police as they construct a bullshit cover-up is disgusting as well.
We have heard from eye-witnesses.
We have had video evidence of the aftermath.
We have seen a dead 18 year old lay in state on a city street.

We have seen complete indifference to this in this attached video for more than 10 minutes of cops milling about the area and NOT ONE OF THEM having the decency or foresight to put a cover on the body or erect a temporary barrier. THAT is a telling disregard for the humanity of the victim...NOT ONE of the MANY cops in this video do ANYTHING but stand around with their thumbs up their asses while the body of a dead teenager bleeds out into the street...UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE!

We have had police attacks on civilians and reporters.
We have had paramilitary invasions of a town in the United States of America.
We have had a posthumous character assassination and "Strong Armed Robbery"
We have seen and heard so much.

What we have NOT heard is the shooting officer's report.
What we have NOT heard is ANY official details of the investigation or the rationale for the aftermath of not just the shooting, but the riot-inducing response, the lack of actual arrests, the lack of following procedure and LAW.

Until we do, and even after if this behavior persists, FUCK THA POLICE!

[madville]

17. There are going to be 5-10 different versions

Of what may have happened. Three different autopsies, 4-5 eye witnesses with some variances in their stories, the officer's account, the audio from the video taken after he was shot, etc.

Without video of the actual shooting it will be a tough prosecution, way to many possibilities for a jury to definitively chose one of the versions with certainty. New information could change that though.

[amandabeech]

24. Too many cooks for this soup.

Before this autopsy came out, I thought that there was a better chance that this officer would do time than I thought about Zimmerman. Now I'm not so sure.

The credibility of any witness who has stated that Mr. Brown was shot in the back has been diminished.

As was the case with Zimmerman, too much confusion, too many jurisdictions and no video of the beginning of the altercation.

[WhoWoodaKnew]

100. That's why I have kept my big mouth shut. I just hope they get it right depending upon what truly

happened.

[ReRe]

25. Dr Baden Autopsy

First seen this OP at 11:25pm, EST (when I broke away from livestream, which wasn't showing much.)

They have GOT to get the GD military police out of there! No more tear gas and more civil monitor observers. Why are no cameras on the protesters side?

CNN is saying a CNN newsman said that a shot was fired at the police. Well, what happened with that? Did the cops get the guy who shot the gun? Did the gunshot hit anyone? Was the gun shot into the air? When the commandos reacted, did THEY hit anyone? Or did they shoot tear gas? GDit! My sister and me could go do a better job reporting than CNN.

I did switch over to MSNBC, and the reporter they were talking to was a half mile away and didn't know anything! Shit, shit, shit!

BP break now.. It is only 10:46pm (Ferguson, MO time) right now! They don't need to be off the street until 12AM!

Three reporters arrested?????

[alfredo]

42. It was firecrackers.

[ReRe]

56. I just learned that...

... but boy, the M$M (CNN) ran with it didn't they?

[alfredo]

109. Either the fog of war, or the Foxification of CNN.

[ReRe]

111. There's some news about Ferguson...

... on MSNBC since 9am (EST), because Chuck Todd is off this am.

They could have averted all this mess had they done the right thing from the beginning, i.e. arrested Wilson on the GD spot on the street on Sat, 8-9-14. Should have loaded that cruiser and taken it straight to Springfield (or wherever the MO Investigative Bureau is), confiscated all dispatch records up to that moment, all of Wilson's logs for that day. So much bass-ackards about this whole mess. Why don't they just do the right thing from the beginning?

[alfredo]

137. They seem to be a textbook example of not how to handle the situation.

[WCLinolVir]

26. Yes his head was bent forward. What will matter will be the path of the bullet.

If they can say with certainty where the exit wound is, if they have one. Stand twenty feet from someone, it is not that far.

[mackerel]

31. Roshomon

[Half-Century Man]

69. Good movie

Fog of war and shit

[blkmusclmachine]

33. Confusion works to the FPD's favor.

It's always the dead who are on trial.

[Calista241]

34. _If_ this is true, and depending on the angle of the bullet in his head....

A successful prosecution just became extremely difficult.

The rules for law enforcement need an extensive rewrite, to prevent bullshit like this.

[Hoyt]

53. To start, police should wear video cameras. Anyone who carries a gun should

[WhoWoodaKnew]

102. I actually want to know the angle of entry and the angle of his head and

the posture of his body when he was shot. I don't think I'll get some of that info.

[bravenak]

35. I wanna roshambo the police chief.

[C Moon]

36. I heard on news radio (1070am) that the FBI wants to do their own autopsy.

If this autopsy was less than honest, this could get interesting.

[amandabeech]

39. This autopsy was done at the family's request.

Dr. Baden and his assistant did not charge any time, but Dr. Baden's travel expenses were covered.

Attorney Crump seems to have made the arrangements.

[C Moon]

40. Thanks. I should learn to read the links, instead of just the replies. :)

[pennylane100]

47. Did the city release the findings of their own autopsy.

[amandabeech]

68. I haven't read anything or seen anything on the news channels

that suggest that the city's autopsy results have been released.

That information, together with whatever investigation findings exist, will probably be released when the officer is charged.

It is standard US police procedure to refuse to comment on ongoing investigations. Whatever comes out before formal charges are laid is often leaked.

Here, the locals will probably wait until the FBI has completed its investigation as well. The FBI is very thorough, and I wouldn't expect anything for at least 10 days at the very earliest.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. "At least six"

Seven is "at least six"

So is 10.

[Leith]

44. Brown Was Shot

in the neck and the right eye. Either one of those would be seriously debilitating or a kill shot. Brown was probably on his way to falling on the pavement when he was shot in the top of the head. Hasn't anyone else thought of that?!

[mackerel]

48. The cornoner mentions something to that effect.

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”

[Spitfire of ATJ]

78. "or because he’s charging forward at the officer."

Because OF COURSE the officer HAD TO BE defending himself from an attack.

[bravenak]

86. Imagine charging at someone after they just shot you in the face.

I can't. Especially if they had shot me several times before they shot me in the face.

[Moostache]

65. Absolutely!

First, this BULLSHIT about charging the officer....NOT ONE eyewitness report said Mike Brown was charging ANYTHING. ALL of them said he had his hands up after turning towards the murderer (he no longer deserves the honorific of "officer&quot .

Shots were fired in rapid succession.
Hit arm.
Pulls body down towards the direction.
6'4" man starts to tilt to the right.
Hit again in the arm.
Falling further.
Struck in the neck.
Head jerks down.
Shot in the right eye.
Bullet enters on a downward trajectory.
Exit wound on face and re-enters collarbone.
Fatal wounds suffered, body continues to fall as shots continue to rain in.
Last bullet strikes top of the head and ends Mike Brown.

Murder two for sure.
Murder one if this cop has ANY skeletons in the closet that haven't been hidden in this week + of official silence on his end.

The entire Ferguson Police Department should be re-assigned and replaced.
Their conduct from start to finish is a global embarrassment.

AN 18 YEAR OLD, UNARMED MAN WAS SHOT DEAD BY A COP.
HIS BODY WAS LEFT EXPOSED IN THE STREETS LIKE A LYNCHING VICTIM ON PURPOSE OR THROUGH CALLOUS INDIFFERENCE.
THE POLICE THEN ATTACKED THE COMMUNITY AND CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN A WAR FOOTING THROUGH SUNDAY.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

79. These idiots actually believed their crackdown would make them HEROES in the white community.

[FarPoint]

98. Looking at the bullet diagram....

If you raise up that right arm...all shots will be surrounding the height of his head as the primary target...Do this in your mind...visualize the arms up..now it makes target sense.

[DallasNE]

58. Autopsy Seems Inconclusive

It seems that at least one of the shots hit Brown in the arm when his arms were down and he was going away from the officer. That shot caused him to stop, turn around and raise his hands in surrender when he was peppered with a barrage that brought him down and then the last shot to the top of his head killed him. That shot could have been fired either as he was going down or was already down. With his arms raised it shows that the officer was strictly going for head shots.

I'm sure some of this will be clarified later.

[Live and Learn]

60. The 'at least 6 times' seems pretty darn inconclusive to me. nt

[bravenak]

61. The first line of your post...

Is different than I would have put it. Homicide is the manner. You concluded it very well.

[liberal N proud]

101. So he wasn't running away and go shot in the back?

Just a rhetorical question!

[Elmergantry]

114. Latest info...

"A previously unnoticed detail in a background conversion of a video taken minutes after the Ferguson shooting could change the course of the investigation into Mike Brown’s death."

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/

Thoughts?

[ancianita]

121. Not sure if the conversation minutes after the event is even accurate. Could be argued as hearsay.

Especially if the 'eyewitness' doesn't say on the video that they're an eyewitness.

We don't know who the "he kept coming toward him" is. The speaker could have meant the cop toward Brown.

[NorthCarolina]

120. The fatal injury was to the top of his head?? Obviously he was already down,

probably laying on the ground face down when the fatal shot was delivered to the top of his head.

[LovingA2andMI]

134. Key Points from Brown Family Pathologist from Presser....

Brown Family Pathologist #MICHAELBIDEN "Three Bullets stayed in the body" "Bullet on inner arm from was armed raised" #FERGUSON" --@IUNewsTalk

"All of the gunshot wounds were survivable, except the one to the top of the brain," Says Dr. Michael Biden #FERGUSON #ARRESTDARRENWILSONNOW" --@IUNewsTalk

RT'ed by @CharlesMBlow New York Times Columnist "@CharlesMBlow "No Evidence of a Struggle," Says Dr. Michael Biden should renew calls NOW for #THOMASJACKSONMUSTGO http://j.mp/JacksonMustGo1" --@IUNewsTalk

[chervilant]

141. This horrific incident has certainly brought out some low-number DUers...

I'm seeing people post about Mike Brown who've been "members" for years, but have post counts less than 150--has anyone else noticed this? Almost to a one, these individuals seem part of the "wait for more info" crowd, or "we don't know if Mike rushed the cop" crowd. Am I the only one seeing this?

[Elmergantry]

142. Yes I have noticed that...interesting

Nonetheless, I hope we get to the bottom of what exactly happended.

[alfredo]

144. Are those entrance or exit wounds on the upper arm?