Ukraine Crisis: 'If I Want, I Will Take Kiev in Two Weeks', Putin Warns EU's Barroso

[Tommy_Carcetti]

Source: Yahoo News

Russian President Vladimir Putin has issued a threat to outgoing European Commission President Jose Manual Barroso that he could "take Kiev in two weeks" if he wanted, Italian media reports have said.

According to Italian newspaper La Repubblica, the Russian leader made the belligerent statement in a phone call with the outgoing EU leader, who is set to be replaced by Luxembourg's former prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker.

Despite the escalating tensions between all parties involved, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has told negotiators in the Belarussian capital of Minsk that an "immediate ceasefire" is Russia's priority.

However, both Ukraine and European Union member states accuse Russia of supporting the rebels fighting Kiev's forces with military supplies and personnel in eastern Ukraine.

Read more: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukraine-crisis-want-kiev-two-weeks-putin-warns-140103140.html#gNgUTF5

---

Like, totally.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Wow. What a dick.

[happyslug]

48. What you do not like him telling the truth?

If Putin wanted the Ukraine, he can have Russian armor units in Kiev in less then two weeks, and that including moving the troops to the border to launch the attack.

Putin's comment is clear, he has NO PLANS TO TAKE THE UKRAINE. If he wanted it, he could take it. The same for the rest of the Former Soviet Republics. The Russians would face serious opposition from the Poles, if Russian moved into Poland (Mostly do to the extensive supply lines needed). The Poles have a good chance of pushing the Russian back to Belarus and the Ukraine, but I have my doubts if Poland could move much further. I.e. Poland and Russia can NOT conquer each other. mostly do to the distance between the two.

Putin's knows what his army can do and that is all he is saying.

[TwilightGardener]

50. Why say something like this? It's just fucking bizarre.

It also portrays his deep insecurity--hence the nuke threats, threats of conquering the Arctic and now this. Pretty soon he'll start talking about sending the US into a "merciless pit of fire!" like North Korea.

[happyslug]

67. I can see him saying it, after being accused time after time of "invading" the Ukraine.

Finally, he said, enough is enough, if "I (Putin) wanted to invade the Ukraine, the Russian Army can be in Kiev within two weeks". Putin has been accused in "Invading" the Ukraine for months, and I can see him frustrated about such statements and pointing out the reality that if he wanted the Ukraine, he had the means to take it. Thus I can see such a statement with an add on, that was NOT included in the snippet, "I accept Ukrainian Independence, and I accept the rights of Russian Speakers in the Ukraine, this is a problem that the Ukrainians themselves must resolve and that can NOT be done by Force".

Thus his point was to show that HE could take the Ukraine, but he does NOT what to.

[roamer65]

2. Sure, until the war of resistance goes "asymmetric" on you, Pootie.

Then you'll have a war of attrition on your hands, just like Afghanistan.

[ballyhoo]

3. I doubt that would be much of a

stumbling block. Ukraine ain't Afganistan.

[Devil Child]

5. Really?

Ukraine has a long and rich history of insurgency against occupying forces.

[ballyhoo]

7. Putin ain't Breznev;the Ukrainian mainstays are not the Mujahideen,

and again Ukraine is not a "Bear Trap" like Afghanistan.

[rpannier]

13. You talk as if you're an expert on Afghanistan and the Ukraine

Please enlighten us

Given that the Ukraine has several ethnic groups that were mistreated by the Russians and despise the Russians and would fight tooth-and-nail against them, I would be curious how you come to your conclusion

As I noted below,
History is replete with similar statements that never came to fruition

[ballyhoo]

14. Tooth and nail? You mean right-wing Nazis proudly displaying wolf insignia

slaughtering women and children? Those are never tooth-and-nail fighters. They are bullies who run when the odds go against them. I've seen them many years ago.

[Vine Gatherer]

43. Wow, ol' Vlad has you wrapped around his little finger, doesn't he?

Say no to


Say yes to

[ballyhoo]

49. Old Vlad is a leader. If he gets involved in removing IS, they'll

be french fries in one month, but he doesn't like ketchup because he's a health food person. Thank you for your time and pictures.

[TwilightGardener]

51. OMG! You're serious!!!

[ballyhoo]

52. You won't be the one laughing in ten years when

tens dollars will buy two glazed donuts and you're riding your bike to the park where you're allowed to view a tree for ten minutes. In Russia they're having multiple flash dances all over Siberia with happy teens. In the US the kids are videoing dead black people lying in the sun for four hours. Keep laughing...

[TwilightGardener]

54. OMG!!!

HAPPY TEENS IN SIBERIA!!!

[pampango]

55. The great and powerful Vlad will conquer all!

[TwilightGardener]

56. He will even conquer US trees. We will be taking buses and paying money to

see one in ten years. Like the old Joni Mitchell song.

[ballyhoo]

57. All is not that much anymore. An American economy

composed of 5th level derivatives;people on every major intersection holding "please help me" signs; a shrinking middle class going for chemists jobs at 14.75 an hour; infrastructure that belongs in Macao; an education system that regurgitates young people that end up working bagging groceries at Walmart; militant police forces that look something out of Flash Gordon...yeah, everything is great...but gotta keep attacking other countries and saying what an asshole Putin is.

[TwilightGardener]

58. And, we eat pigeons in the park. That North Korean propaganda video

was spot-on, we were just too embarrassed to say so...

[ballyhoo]

59. You need to wander outside occasionally and

view what is going on rather than slosh in inanities all day.

[TwilightGardener]

60. Actually, I'm going to go get me a pigeon, I haven't had breakfast.

[ballyhoo]

61. Don't eat the head.

[pampango]

62. A modern Khrushchev: "We will bury you."

I doubt many people lose any sleep over the threat from Putin - unless they live in small countries unlucky enough to be too close to Russia. His military is very strong and capable as long within a few miles of its border.

Look how long it took for Russia to defeat Chechnya - not exactly a global military power.

The First Chechen War took place over a two-year period that lasted from 1994 to 1996, when Russian forces attempted to regain control over Chechnya, which had declared independence in November 1991. Despite overwhelming numerical superiority in men, weaponry, and air support, the Russian forces were unable to establish effective permanent control over the mountainous area due to numerous successful full scale battles and insurgency raids. For three months, Russia lost more tanks (over 1,997 tanks) in Grozny than during the Battle of Berlin in 1945.

The widespread demoralization of the Russian forces in the area and a successful offensive to re-take Grozny by Chechen resistance forces led by Aslan Maskhadov prompted Russian President Boris Yeltsin to declare a ceasefire in 1996, and sign a peace treaty a year later that saw a withdrawal of Russian forces.

... a prolonged air campaign of retaliatory strikes against the Ichkerian regime and a ground offensive that began in October 1999 marked the beginning of the Second Chechen War. Much better organized and planned than the first Chechen War, the Russian military took control over most regions. The Russian forces used brutal force, killing 60 Chechen civilians during a mop-up operation in Aldy, Chechnya on February 5, 2000. After the re-capture of Grozny in February 2000, the Ichkerian regime fell apart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya#First_Chechen_War

After losing the first Chechen war, it took Putin 6 months to take Grozny against a pathetic Chechen military. And few buildings were left standing in Grozny. From 150,000 to 200,000 Chechen civilians were killed in the two Chechen wars. His new found concern for the trials and tribulations of ethnic Russian in eastern Ukraine caught in military crossfire is a welcome change in his concern for civilian casualties.

Ethnic Chechyns are 95% of the population of Chechya, yet for some reason they do not deserve a country of their own. Certainly a different view of things from what ethnic Russians in Ukraine "deserve".

[happyslug]

65. The Ukraine did have a Guerilla war from 1944 to 1954

Given that the Ukraine was at that time surrounded by the Soviet Union or other Warsaw Pact nations an achievement.

Today, the Ukraine has an extensive border with Poland and Belarus, Belarus is a loyal ally of Russia, but is also the home of the Pripet marshes (That Marsh is the real border between Poland, Russia and the Ukraine, now drained to a degree but still a real barrier).

The Ukraine has a conflict with the people on its Western Border and thus may interfere with support from Romania, but not an implement to supplies from Poland and other places in the West.

Putin is no dummy, he knows the above and thus wants to avoid such a war. Thus Putin has made no move to attack Kiev.

[Depaysement]

6. Believe it or not

It could be worse.

No way Putin goes to Kiev. That folly risks a full scale war in Easter Europe.

[ballyhoo]

8. Fighting who? Europe is not going to

risk gas deliveries this late to send troops against Russia. Cameron talks a good game; Merkel is more serious but cautious; and is there a real leader in France right now willing to participate? Hollande is approximately history.

[freshwest]

4. Re: 'If I Want, I Will Take Kiev in Two Weeks', Putin Warns... From OP links:

Last edited Wed Sep 10, 2014, 10:24 PM - Edit history (2)

Not saying they aren't credible but this is wild stuff if true:

Ukraine Crisis: 'If I Want, I Will Take Kiev in Two Weeks', Putin Warns EU's Barroso

By Jack Moore - September 1, 2014



http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-if-i-want-i-will-take-kiev-two-weeks-putin-warns-eus-barroso-1463471

Then it has these links:

Vladimir Putin Continues Soviet Rhetoric by Questioning Kazakhstan's 'Created' Independence



Putin says:

"Kazakhs never had any statehood, he (Kazakhstan's President Nursultan Nazarbayev) has created it..."

Putin's comments conjure memories of a statement he made to former US President George Bush in 2008 when he said that "Ukraine is not even a state!" during a Bucharest summit.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vladimir-putin-continues-soviet-rhetoric-by-questioning-kazakhstans-created-independence-1463460

I guess Putin oughta know...

Ukraine: 100 Troops Dead After Russians Open Fire on Putin's Humanitarian Corridor



A hundred Ukrainian troops have been killed after Russian troops opened fire on the humanitarian corridor championed by Vladimir Putin last week.

A further 85 troops were wounded after the bombardment by Russian artillery near the city of Illovaisk. Many have lost legs and arms in the explosions.

"There are very deeply wounded people. Guys say that they were going through the humanitarian corridor, but they got shot by Russians and their mercenaries" says Iryna Geraschenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko.

It is thought that the Ukrainian troops belonged to the 28th, 39th, 40th and 51st brigades...

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-100-troops-dead-after-russians-open-fire-putins-humanitarian-corridor-1463435

Maybe this is why Ukraine didn't want the convoy, in spite of Putin's promises.

And what's with those grins? Like the last time they gave dead Ukrainian soldiers back, they smiled over the body bags as if they were all having a great time. Do they hate each other that much?

Ukraine Crisis: Captured Russian Paratroopers in Troops Swap with Ukrainian Soldiers



...The Russian paratroopers were captured by Ukrainian forces earlier this week, near Dzerkalne village, 50km (30 miles) southeast of Donetsk, causing great embarrassment to the Kremlin, which continues to deny it directly or indirectly supports a pro-Russian insurgency in eastern Ukraine.

Russian president Vladimir Putin claimed his paratroopers had mistakenly crossed into Ukraine as they "got lost".

The Ukrainian government said the 10 soldiers from the 331st regiment of the 98th Svirsk airborne division, were on a "special mission" in support of rebels instead.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-captured-russian-paratroopers-troops-swap-ukrainian-soldiers-1463337

Russia got 10, Ukraine got 63 who 'crossed' into Russia. Looks like they all need to get geography lessons. Or GPS. Or quit messing around.

Ukraine: 14 Dead after Wounded Ukrainian Troops Blow Themselves Up to Avoid Capture



http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-14-dead-after-wounded-ukrainian-troops-blow-themselves-avoid-capture-1463194

What a horrible way to go.

Why is Vladimir Putin Referring to Eastern Ukraine as 'New Russia'?



...This phrase has raised fears about Putin's territorial ambitions in the former Soviet Union but what does this term really mean?

"Novorossiya", which translates as New Russia, is a historical term for a region conquered by the Russian empire in the 18th century and controlled by Tsarist Russia in the 19th Century.

In the same Q&A, Putin uttered "God knows" why the "New Russian" regions became Ukrainian territory in the 1920s.

This area, shown below, today represents an area of southern Ukraine and borders the controversial Crimea region, which claimed independence earlier this year:



http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-vladimir-putin-referring-eastern-ukraine-new-russia-1463130

Empires here, Caliphates there, but we're the only ones called Imperialists. History says otherwise. It's as old as all of written history, and before that. I don't think Putin is saying what some think he is on this one. I give him a pass on the term, even if he does have ambtions we see as horrible. It's a word.

More links:

Ukraine Crisis: Gorbachev Warns of 'Terrible Slaughter' in Europe

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-gorbachev-warns-terrible-slaughter-europe-1463292

Makes equal complaints of Putin and Obama. Warns Russia to show restraint. Speaks of those who rule and those who suffer. Interesting analysis and I agree with some of it, when I look at the pictures I added. The luxury of deciding juxtaposed with the grief of dying from those choices. Centuries of this, as humans are very specialized.

Nato 2014 Summit: Finland 'Ready to Intercept' Russian Planes after Third Airspace Violation in a Week

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nato-2014-summit-finland-ready-intercept-russian-planes-after-third-airspace-violation-week-1463186

Says they aren't part of NATO and their citizens don't want to be. More like a lukewarm objection there.

Ukraine Makes Nato Membership Move as Russia Crisis Rages

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-makes-nato-membership-move-russia-crisis-rages-1463163

I think it's way too late for them to join NATO and AFAIK, which means IDK, NATO doesn't want them.

Ukraine: Pro-Russian Rebels Torture and Kill Civilians

...Pro-Ukrainian activist Olha Klimenko was detained for six days, tortured and used for forced labour...

Another pro-Ukrainian activist, Anna Guz, was detained with her partner for five days. Both were tortured.

"He [the torturer] was yelling non-stop and waving his knife close to my face...."Guz said. "He was hitting me on the knees with handcuffs, then poked me with his knife on one knee, pushed the knife in by half an inch, and turned it.

"He did the same to my other knee. He would run out and then come back and torture me again. He threatened me with gang rape...They said that if I wanted to live I had to trick other activists and journalists into coming to them..."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-pro-russian-rebels-torture-kill-civilians-1463110

HRW (Human Rights Watch) was accused of bias, but it seems they don't work like Amnesty International. They are all about data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch

If this story is true, and even some videos posted on DU supporting the rebels show they are acting badly. The trophe for them is 'They are not nice people.'

Ukraine Crisis: Hundreds Abducted and Subjected 'to Stomach-Turning Beatings'



Hundreds of activists, protesters and journalists have been abducted and tortured in eastern Ukraine over the last three months, Amnesty International has warned.

In its new report, "Abductions and Torture in Eastern Ukraine", the Ngo collected "compelling evidence of savage beatings and other torture" perpetrated by separatist armed groups and pro-Kiev forces.

"With hundreds abducted over the last three months, the time has come to take stock of what has happened, and stop this abhorrent ongoing practice," said Denis Krivosheev, Amnesty International's Deputy Director of Europe and Central Asia.

"The bulk of the abductions are being perpetrated by armed separatists, with the victims often subjected to stomach-turning beatings and torture. There is also evidence of a smaller number of abuses by pro-Kiev forces..."

More details at the link:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-hundreds-abducted-subjected-stomach-turning-beatings-1456346

Clicking on the words at the link "Abductions and Torture in Eastern Ukraine" will put a pdf on your computer. It is 20 pages and I'm not going to look at it today. That's from Amnesty. It probably backs up what HRW said.

I shouldn't be surprised at anything going on, but

[reorg]

38. the war on terror is bearing fruit

in the midst of these Ukraine press releases I found this comment, apparently made by you:

"Empires here, Caliphates there, but we're the only ones called Imperialists."

Haven't seen this characterisation by Western officials yet, but Merkel stated yesterday that IS poses a direct threat to Germany, so it won't be long ...

Founded as a ragged mercenary group supposed to FIGHT Soviet imperialism on behalf of the US, the jihadis, with some more help here and there, have now managed to terrorize larger areas. Can we consider the "Caliphate" an empire already? Considering their goals presented in maps, probably so. They think they are threatening the entire Middle East, North Africa, Southern Europe and Asia ...

OMG, finally. We were so desperate to find a new mission for NATO. After years of speculation whether it's oil or pipelines or whatever NATO countries meant when they said "we must fight the terror". The more reasonable commentators had to admit you can't fight a method of warfare, you need an enemy: now, we finally got it! It's the Evil Empire, it's right there!

Thank heavens we have a new direction.

[DetlefK]

53. A guy here on DU tried to convince me...

that Poroshenko's rise to power was orchestrated by the Neocons and the CIA (with Obama totally out of the loop), so Poroshenko could something-something pipeline something-something higher gas-prices and the IMF would turn Ukraine into a new Greece.

[christx30]

9. This sounds familiar:

Only to protect the G̶e̶r̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶S̶p̶e̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶M̶i̶n̶o̶r̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶u̶d̶e̶t̶e̶n̶l̶a̶n̶d̶ Russian speaking minorities in Crimea.

[newthinking]

10. There is so much propaganda it is hard to say if this is accurate. But this would actually be eviden

that he wants a solution. If he wanted Kiev indeed he could just go in.

In fact that sounds more like how the discussion may have went.

"You need to back off and you better not go into Kiev."

Come on, of course I am not going into Kiev, if I had wanted to go into Kiev I could have take it in two weeks. That is just silly.

Then it gets said to the press "Putin threatens to take Kiev in two weeks."

Just the fact that this is being reported in the press, since this is a huge breach in diplomatic protocol, suggests it is either an outright lie or purposely stated out of context.

Let's hear the recordings

[ballyhoo]

11. Exactly. And as this goes on these posts are

becoming more and more hollow because no one knows the truth about what is being said. It's more revolves around I like my person or thing and don't like your person or thing. And that's the way it is every thread. I think it's coming to a head right now. If Ukraine doesn't accept the Separatists' (Russia, whatever) slight capitulation, Putin will go from Major back to Colonel and then you'll see fire.

[candelista]

16. I'd like to know the exact translation.

The article goes from the more inflammatory "will" in the headline to "could" in the text. I wonder what he actually said, and in what context.

[cosmicone]

20. More BS propaganda. Nothing is believable coming from the neocons n/t

[newthinking]

22. Kiev is really wracheting it up - Just accused Russia of planning to nuke them

I think that Kiev Nato may double down. The neo-cons really want a big country for disaster capitalism

[pampango]

42. Agree about neocons. bush/cheney bragged about how short the Iraq War would be.

Neocons spend a lot more time and money on the military as well promoting fear and nationalism than they do on the prosperity of their citizens. The real question is which side is the 'neocon side' here? Or is it both sides?

Vladimir Putin, Russian Neocon
How Russia's president resembles the American hawks who hate him most

Ever since Vladimir Putin invaded Crimea, American pundits have strained to understand his view of the world. Putin’s been called a Nazi; a tsar; a man detached from reality. But there’s another, more familiar framework that explains his behavior. In his approach to foreign policy, Vladimir Putin has a lot in common with those very American hawks (or “neocons” in popular parlance) who revile him most.

1. Putin is obsessed with the threat of appeasement

To Kristol, McCain, and their ilk, the United States is a nation perennially bullied by adversaries who are tougher, nastier, and more resolute than we are. ... In his (Putin's) view, it’s Russia that has been perennially bullied by tougher and nastier countries—in particular, America and its NATO allies. “They have lied to us many times, made decisions behind our backs, placed us before an accomplished fact,” he explained in a speech announcing Russia’s incorporation of Crimea. “They are constantly trying to sweep us into a corner.” But now, finally, the era of appeasement is over. “Russia found itself in a position it could not retreat from,” Putin said. “If you compress the spring all the way to its limit, it will snap back hard.”

2. Putin is principled—so long as those principles enhance national power

For Putin, an anti-Russian government in Kiev is illegitimate regardless of how it takes power. For many American hawks, the same is now true for a pro-Chávez government in Latin America or an Islamist government in the Middle East. ... In the United States, both hawks and doves like to claim that they’re promoting cherished principles like democracy and freedom. The difference is that doves are more willing to acknowledge that these principles can undermine American interests. For most hawks, by contrast, the fight for democratic ideals must serve American power.

3. Putin doesn’t understand economic power

This indifference to the economic aspects of statecraft was a defining feature of the Bush administration, where treasury secretaries played a marginal foreign-policy role ... Seeing “economics” as separate from “foreign policy issues” is precisely what Clinton decried in the 1990s, and it’s the weakness in Putin’s strategy today. But it’s a weakness that many American hawks share. For decades now, Kristol and McCain have insisted that America relentlessly expand its global military footprint and relentlessly boost its defense budget. I’ve never seen either make a serious effort to explain how this should be paid for.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/vladimir-putin-russian-neocon/284602/


http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/vladimir-putin-russian-neocon/284602/

[rpannier]

12. History is replete with people who made similar statements and were proven wrong nt

[RobertEarl]

15. Yahoo news? Really?

Where is a host when you need one?

[geek tragedy]

17. ISIS would love that massive, unguardable border. They have a few grudges to settle with Russia and

will be looking for new targets shortly.

[ballyhoo]

19. IS will get to meet the TOS-1A then.

[cosmicone]

21. ISIS would have no chance against the Russians. n/t

[geek tragedy]

40. of course not, but they could go out with a bang nt

[reorg]

41. if we let these powerful new empires pitch against each other

the peaceful remnants of the old world order may stand a fighting chance.

[TwilightGardener]

64. What powerful new empires?

[C Moon]

18. He starting to sound like an angry cornered animal. Probably because he has no way out of this one.

[newthinking]

23. There may be no way out. . The neo-cons / neolibs may not want peace.

[olddad56]

24. This guy is as deranged as Stalin or Hitler

[Blue_Tires]

25. I'm seriously starting to wonder why NATO exists

isn't discouraging situations like this their whole raison d'être?

[TwilightGardener]

26. Ukraine isn't in NATO. That's why Putin is able to throw his little tantrums

and try to grab pieces of it. He'll back down like a chickenshit in the face of a serious opponent.

[Cha]

27. Fuck Putin

[davidpdx]

28. +1

[Cha]

29. Contingent on DU has their Putin Force Field Protector Shield up as usual..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=885844

david

[davidpdx]

30. Yep, they are at Def Con 1

Stupid humor and all.

[Cha]

33. I know.. "the President..

golf " Trying to impersonate rwankers doesn't work.

[davidpdx]

34. I know

I just saw one of the usual suspects moaning and whining about people using RW talking points. Maybe they ought to be looking in the mirror.

[Cha]

36. Like rw they project.

[davidpdx]

39. Yep

The defenders of homophobic Putin

[Behind the Aegis]

35. There's not enough vodka is Moscow!

[Cha]

37. I should say.. Fuck off Putin..

Much better!

[Model35mech]

68. So let them drink Aquavit, or fighter jet window cleaner/de-icer

[CJCRANE]

31. This means the opposite. It means the Russians are not in Ukraine.

That's the whole point of the statement.

It's amazing to see the willful misunderstanding.

Just like with Obama when he said "we don't have a strategy yet" which obviously meant "we're working on a strategy".

[pampango]

44. Who denies that there are Russian in Ukraine? Many contend they are 'volunteers' or 'on leave' or

'lost' but few deny they are there. It's one of the few things that NATO and the 'separatist leaders' agree on.

Thousands of Russian soldiers sent to Ukraine, say Russian human rights groups.

Lyudmila Bogatenkova, head of Soldiers' Mothers in the southern Stavropol region, added: "A large number of people are dying." She said a hospital in the town of Rostov, close to the Ukrainian border, was "overflowing" with wounded soldiers. "Cargo-200 is coming from the Rostov range," she added, referring to the Russian military code for body bags.

Rights groups say that while papers accompanying dead bodies specify gunshot or shrapnel wounds as a cause of death, they do not say where they were sustained.

"These documents are astonishing. Instead of the place of death there is a blank space," Polyakova said. "We saw a similar picture in Chechnya."

Rights groups claim a pattern appears to be emerging: troops are sent on drills close to the border where they are told to change clothes and paint over identification numbers on their tanks before they are deployed to Ukraine. Their final destination appears to be a surprise to many personnel. "Commanders are not always bold enough to tell the truth," said Anatoly Salin, who fought in both Chechen wars and now works with Soldiers' Mothers in the southern Astrakhan region.

The justice ministry last week labelled Soldiers' Mothers of St Petersburg a foreign agent, a term thick with connotations of cold war espionage.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/01/russian-soldiers-ukraine-rights-groups

The Russian government has been cracking down on NGO's recently (as has the Egyptian and other authoritarian governments). NGO's are dangerously independent organizations in a closely controlled society. If the Russian government has labelled Soldiers Mother of St Petersburg as a foreign agent, we won't be hearing from them much longer.

[happyslug]

63. Putin's point was, if he wanted to take Kiev Military, he could do so in two weeks

Given the strength of the Russian Army (much stronger then it was in the 1990s, but no where near the strength of the Soviet Red Army of the 1980s) and the much weaker Ukrainian Army, Putin was just pointing out the Russian Army could take Kiev in two weeks.

Putin's actions has shown a refusal to launch such an attack.

Putin wants the Russian Speaking parts of the Ukraine to be semi-independent from Kiev. Such autonomous states are common in the Russian Federation. The Crimea was the only Autonomous State of the old Soviet Union that was NOT in the Russian Federation (technically it was till 1954, till 1954 the Crimea Autonomous state was in the Russian Federation NOT the Ukraine).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republics_of_Russia

[pampango]

66. Neo-cons like to brag about their military. I understand that. Bush & Cheney did the same before

Iraq.

I think you are right about what Putin wants for eastern Ukraine, but neither he nor you nor I get a voice in that. The Ukrainian people do. Polls indicate that most in the east do not want independence or to become part of Russia. They either want things to stay the same or for there to be more of a federalist structure with more powers to the states or provinces.

I just hope that the voice of normal Ukrainians is part of the discussion, not just that of Putin, Obama, the EU, the armed separatists, etc. I am not optimistic about that happening but it is my hope. I have the feeling that someone is going to draw a line somewhere to keep the guys with guns happy and regular Ukrainians can be damned.

[joshcryer]

32. Obama has had too much time to consider his options.

Putin doesn't realize this. Obama, Wednesday, will completely end this conflict. With a very simple, if mediocre, speech. He'll refer to the bloc states, he'll refer to post-War II colonialism.

It'll be vague. But it'll shut Putin down. Because Putin is just shy of being a madman and Obama will follow through with his very meager (but devastating) gestures.

[rtracey]

45. well

Well if ever there was a call for a (hmmmmm) situational handling of a out of their mind head of state, this may be it. What is the difference between this guy and Hitler, not much except for political affiliation.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

46. But he's not an imperialist, and all he's doing is responding to NATO.

Anyone who believes that is living on another planet. This guy doesn't have the maturity to lead a troop of Boy Scouts, much less a country.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

47. Well, he definitely said it, although he's just saying he's misunderstood.

http://news.yahoo.com/putins-aide-confirms-2-weeks-kiev-remark-081030630.html

Putin's '2 weeks to Kiev' out of context: aide

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Russian military forces have been spotted in both major rebel-held cities in eastern Ukraine, an official said Tuesday, prompting Ukraine to declare it now has to fight the Russian army, not just the separatists.

The statement on the Russians by Col. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security Council, came after the country's defense minister said Ukraine's armed forces are expanding their strategy from just fighting separatists to facing the Russian army in a war that could cost "tens of thousands" of lives.

Lysenko told reporters Russian troops had been seen in the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, as well as other locations throughout the east. The claim could not be confirmed independently. Lysenko also said 15 servicemen had been killed over the previous day.

In Moscow, a Kremlin aide sharply criticized EU Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso for breaching confidentiality when he quoted Russian President Vladimir Putin as saying that Moscow could take over Kiev in two weeks if it wished