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Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:11 AM Sep 2014

NC men freed after 30 years will seek pardons

Source: Associated Press

NC men freed after 30 years will seek pardons
By JONATHAN DREW, Associated Press | September 4, 2014 | Updated: September 4, 2014 7:53pm

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — Two men are planning to ask for pardons after they were freed this week from a North Carolina prison following the discovery of evidence that they didn't kill a young girl 30 years ago.

Vernetta Alston, an attorney for Henry McCollum, says lawyers representing him and his half brother, Leon Brown, are preparing petitions for a pardon of innocence and plan to file within the next couple of weeks. McCollum was freed from death row after three decades, while Brown had been serving a life sentence.

"We do plan on filing a petition with the governor's office soon," Alston said.

If the men are pardoned, they would be eligible to claim compensation under a state law that allows up to $750,000 for people wrongly convicted of felonies.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/NC-men-freed-after-30-years-will-seek-pardons-5734348.php

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NC men freed after 30 years will seek pardons (Original Post) Judi Lynn Sep 2014 OP
If their convictions are overturned why should they need a pardon Live and Learn Sep 2014 #1
That's all that's available to them, apparently. Judi Lynn Sep 2014 #2
It is not nearly enough. Live and Learn Sep 2014 #3
Th writer mentioned "challeges" as what these two can do from now on. happyslug Sep 2014 #7
They need not hold their breath for pardons. littlemissmartypants Sep 2014 #4
If officials LIED to get convictions, then THEY need to be charged!!! 7962 Sep 2014 #5
There is NO evidence of anyone lying except the actual pepetrator happyslug Sep 2014 #9
Well thats good to hear. So many of these cases involve prosecutorial misconduct. 7962 Sep 2014 #14
At least one officer completely fabricated those confessions Ash_F Sep 2014 #21
The DNA implicated a man already convicted of similar crimes at a time very close to this crime Justice Sep 2014 #17
At least one officer fabricated those confessions, out of whole cloth. Ash_F Sep 2014 #20
I heard the boys were held and questioned for hours Politicalboi Sep 2014 #26
The Supreme Court has ruled that is Legal... happyslug Sep 2014 #37
293 views and 7 rec. Get a pardon? the OP article can't bonniebgood Sep 2014 #6
this is maddening heaven05 Sep 2014 #8
No evidence of Police lying in this case. happyslug Sep 2014 #11
oh please!!!! heaven05 Sep 2014 #12
The police wrote the confessions Ash_F Sep 2014 #22
exactly heaven05 Sep 2014 #29
I should like to point out that their former prosecutor Kelvin Mace Sep 2014 #10
All prosecutors care about is the number of wins on their belt. Live and Learn Sep 2014 #15
That has been my observation Kelvin Mace Sep 2014 #16
Most Plea Bargaining is negotiation what can someone be convicted of. happyslug Sep 2014 #38
No he isn't. /nt Ash_F Sep 2014 #18
The post was about the Prosecutor. Your article is about the Live and Learn Sep 2014 #25
I know. You didn't get it. Ash_F Sep 2014 #32
Oh, you mean he is lying to cover his record. Live and Learn Sep 2014 #33
The taxpayers will pay...not the criminally negligent prosecutors toncuz Sep 2014 #13
People just vote for DA's who spout "tough on crime" in ads Ash_F Sep 2014 #23
"Tough on crime" really mean "tough on blacks." That's what it is understood to mean by both blacks kelliekat44 Sep 2014 #27
Absolutely. n/t Judi Lynn Sep 2014 #34
Powerful article by the defense attorney: Ash_F Sep 2014 #19
I agree with the attorney. Live and Learn Sep 2014 #24
amerikan justice heaven05 Sep 2014 #30
Glad to have read it. Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Sep 2014 #35
Here is one of the appeal filings exboyfil Sep 2014 #28
Abundant information in the filing you posted. Amazing. Judi Lynn Sep 2014 #36
Now that makes allegations of police misconduct happyslug Sep 2014 #39
A Victory Over Justice System's Failure: Wrongly Convicted Brothers Freed After 31 Years in Prison Judi Lynn Sep 2014 #31

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
1. If their convictions are overturned why should they need a pardon
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:41 AM
Sep 2014

to seek redress? And, $750,000 is a paltry sum for what they have suffered.

Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
2. That's all that's available to them, apparently.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:50 AM
Sep 2014

It's better than what they have after over 30 years in jail, and they're not likely to find any well-paying jobs, since the brothers are both developmentally challenged, and weren't old enough to have a work history behind them when they were incorrectly imprisoned. They were very young at the time.

No skills? Challenged developementally?

I wish them the very possible best, and hope they can find some peace with what the ####'s left of their lives.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
3. It is not nearly enough.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 04:00 AM
Sep 2014

I don't see how their "challenges" enter the equation of stealing 30 years of their lives. Nobody can say how much they would have made or how much they suffered?

How much would you take to be imprisoned in our system (one that for all practical purposes encourages rape and beatings) for 30 years?

I'm sorry, but our justice system really ticks me off even for those that are guilty. Those that were railroaded by police, prosecutors and judges should get ghastly sums of money and it still won't make up for what they have been through. Shame on us for allowing any of this.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
7. Th writer mentioned "challeges" as what these two can do from now on.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:23 AM
Sep 2014

Given their lack of education and training it is unlikely they get any employment that would make them eligible for Social Security. That is the Challenge. Given they can NOT sue the state UNLESS the state agrees to be sued (and that is apparently what the state has done in this case, but limited to $750,000 AND a finding by the Governor of innocence) they have no real prospects.

Technically they can sue the individual offers and prosecutors if there is evidence of misconduct, but that does NOT seems to be the case. These two victims (and that what they are) were tried and convicted even through another person had done the actual act and had also been a suspect. Based on the evidence the police had at that time, they thought they had the right perpetrators, the District Attorney, Judge and Jury all agreed. That is NOT misconduct and thus NON actionable.

They can lobby the State Legislature for additional money, and maybe even Congress, but I do NOT believe either body will agreed to pay more money.

littlemissmartypants

(22,631 posts)
4. They need not hold their breath for pardons.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 04:05 AM
Sep 2014

Govna McCrooked will jive talk his way around it, I suspect.
They should have immediately been pardoned, imnsho
and He should be put in jail indefinitely
for his mistreatment of the citizens of North Carolina, for So Many Reasons.

For these two brothers, I wish the best.

~ Lmsp

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
5. If officials LIED to get convictions, then THEY need to be charged!!!
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 07:42 AM
Sep 2014

I dont care how old they are. The only way to put a stop to this shit is for the people responsible to pay a hefty price. If the prosecutor or any other official lied or withheld evidence, then he/she needs to be prosecuted and sent to jail.
And the 2 guys deserve a truckload of money.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
9. There is NO evidence of anyone lying except the actual pepetrator
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:40 AM
Sep 2014

The police decided that the evidence they had pointed to these two men, as opposed the actual perpetrator. That is a judgement call that the courts will NOT second guess. Remember, that decision was also the position of the District Attorney, the Judge and Jury once they reviewed the evidence that the Police had 30 years ago.

The DNA evidence is new, it clearly show that the victim was sexually assaulted by the other person who had been a suspect. Technically these two men could sue that other suspect for lying to the police and causing them to be in Jail for 30 years, but the reports I have read is that other suspect has been in jail for similar crimes and thus has no money to pay any judgement.

Thus no evidence of Police Misconduct and thus no way to sue the police officers who did the investigation.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
14. Well thats good to hear. So many of these cases involve prosecutorial misconduct.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 02:17 PM
Sep 2014

The guy who did it should be charged even if he's already in jail. This would KEEP him there.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
21. At least one officer completely fabricated those confessions
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 05:43 PM
Sep 2014

This would be clear to anyone who reads the article to completion.

Justice

(7,185 posts)
17. The DNA implicated a man already convicted of similar crimes at a time very close to this crime
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 05:15 PM
Sep 2014

Seems hard to understand why police and prosecution and defense did not hear of these similar crimes at the time.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
26. I heard the boys were held and questioned for hours
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 03:09 AM
Sep 2014

Without an attorney. Then tricked into thinking they could go home if they confessed. So one of the brothers confessed.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
37. The Supreme Court has ruled that is Legal...
Mon Sep 8, 2014, 09:17 PM
Sep 2014

You may dislike the technique but no one is calling it illegal. Old rule of thumb, if the Police give you your rights, you should have had an attorney a long time before (and SHUT UP and DEMAND that attorney).

The Supreme Court has long ruled that once the rights have been said, if the defendant spoke he knew what he or she was doing and it is usable against him or her. Police do this all the time, give you your rights, then starts the lies. That appears to be what happened to these two, they were lied to and confessed so they can go home.

That is perfectly legal and the Defense pointed it out to the jury that convicted these men. Jurys want to convict when they true function is a check on the prosecution and the Judge. Jurors are picked to convict people and that is what they did in this case, even through the Defense did point out HOW the confession were obtained.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
11. No evidence of Police lying in this case.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:52 AM
Sep 2014

The police did get both men to "confess" to the killing and that confession was used against them at their trial. But even the US SUpreme Court held what the Police did was proper under the law. i.e. no lying to the Court, no misrepresentation of evidence at the trial (Lying to these two men while the Police were interrogating them was and is permissible after they had been read their rights and understood those rights and waived those rights), and the Police had other evidence beside the confession to support they opinion that the persons who did this crime were these two men.

Just a comment, do NOT jump to Police Misconduct when you hear that someone was wrongfully convicted. The person who did the act was also African American.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
12. oh please!!!!
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:05 AM
Sep 2014

geez. Your type of excusing/justifying of police and prosecutor misconduct is getting old and stale. We do not know what was done to these two individuals to get them to "confess". The courts usually side with law enforcement in cases such as these where the challenged individual doesn't really understand their rights or the alleged perp is a minority. And these two were mentally challenged I've read.....so they didn't stand a chance with the amerikkkan justice system......and you're right, if the original perp was African-american, all were open to charges and these two 'won' the prize...what about Brown and Martin.....they were African-american. Did they deserve their 'punishment'? Just a question as to your mindset.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
22. The police wrote the confessions
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 05:46 PM
Sep 2014

They contained details only the police would know such as a brand of cigarette found at the scene.

They definitely lied.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
10. I should like to point out that their former prosecutor
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:41 AM
Sep 2014

is still firmly convinced of their guilt.

Joe Freeman Britt, who prosecuted the brothers in 1984, said he was stunned by the outcome.

“It’s a tragic day for justice in Robeson County,” said Britt. “That case was fought with powerful arguments, but apparently the district attorney just threw up his hands and capitulated.”

Ken Snead, a retired SBI agent and lead investigator, said he was disappointed.

“Someone should have been called today to refute the evidence
.”


You can be damned sure that if the evidence had tied them to the crime he wouldn't be questioning it.

These people coerced confessions from innocent men. THEY should be in prison for their conduct.

Read more here.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
15. All prosecutors care about is the number of wins on their belt.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:51 PM
Sep 2014

Justice doesn't enter in to the equation.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
38. Most Plea Bargaining is negotiation what can someone be convicted of.
Mon Sep 8, 2014, 09:53 PM
Sep 2014

The Defense and Prosecutors meet and discuss the evidence, and after a while they agree what the Prosecution can prove in a court of law. The Defense then gets their clients to agree to those charges. 95% of all cases are handled that way. When states "outlaw" plea bargaining, it never changes that number for what is being made illegal when "Plea Bargaining" is "outlawed" is NOT what is happening when plea bargaining takes place.

If you ask most people what happens during a plea bargaining, they believe the Prosecution bargain away charges in exchange for the defendant pleading guilty to lesser charges. The problem is that RARELY takes place, instead the defense just tells the prosecutor this is what you can prove nothing more and lets agree on that for my client will plead guilty to those crimes.

Most of this is the result of the Prosecution over charging, i.e. they charge the defendant with every possible crime, including jay walking if they can. The Defense then looks at the evidence and points out what the prosecutors can prove. The Prosecutors may grand stand for a while, but sooner or later agree with the defense and the case is closed (The prosecutors can NOT prove Jay walking, for the prosecutors have no evidence that the Defendant did NOT cross with the light as he engaged in a shoot out with the Police).

Now, the Federal Prosecutors have abused some of the laws to get people to agree to lesser sentences, rather then going to trial, but on the local level just does not happen. Local Prosecutors have to deal with the fact most of their cases are NOT front page news thus settlements are possible.

Now, when the Defense and Prosecutors can NOT agree, then it goes to trial. Often this is the case when the Prosecutors know they can NOT convict the defendant of the all of the Charges, but they do NOT want to take the heat of agreeing to a lesser charge.

Another group of cases occurs when Prosecutors give nothing to the Defense, and the Defense sees they best chance for reduce charges is with a Judge and Jury (and that is a hard decision to make since juries want to convict). You never know what a jury will do, but sometimes it is the only option up to the defense.

As to ending plea bargaining, the only way to do that is to return to the jury not only the decision if someone is guilty or not, but also any sentence. The Military Court Martial retains this feature, through it can be over ridden by the commander who convened the court martial. It was a characteristic of the Jury till the late 1600s or early 1700s (it is a little unclear, the transition was gradual).

The modern concept of a Jury, that it be all male (before the 20th Century) but restricted to the issue of guilt or innocent but not the sentence is a product of that time period (for example in the mid 1600s a Maryland Jury was convened to try a woman who had killed her new born baby, the jury was made of 12 women for it involved what happens to women after giving birth, the jury acquitted the woman of murder).

Thus if you want to end "Plea Bargaining" you have to return sentencing to the jury. That way if both sides agree to the charges someone is guilty of, the jury can decide the sentence. Given that 95% of all crimes are the product of "Plea Bargaining" where both sides agree to what the prosecutors can prove, anything else is just outlawing what no one is doing.

Prosecutors overcharge all the time, you can NOT stop them. If you deny prosecutors the right to drop charges, you will have have trials over things prosecutors can NOT prove (or worse, having trials on things prosecutors have decided is at best a lesser charge. For example charging someone with Murder having a trial on the Murder charge, when the defendant has agreed to manslaughter and the only thing up to a Jury is if the killing was Murder not manslaughter. The jury would be told that the Defendant has admitted to killing the victim but that it was manslaughter but the jury gets to decide if it was murder instead. That would be a real mess, the admission of killing the person would be admitted at trial, that the Defendant agreed he committed manslaughter would be admitted at the trial, and they jury being asked if that was WRONG, i.e it was murder not manslaughter.

Thus "Plea Bargaining" as it is done, will remain even if it is "outlawed" for plea bargaining is the Prosecutors and Defense decided what can be proved at trial. When they agree, that is the "Bargain".

Every time I hear someone says he or she wants to outlaw plea bargaining, I have to point out what they want to make illegal is already illegal. What Plea Bargaining is, is where the Prosecutors and Defense agree what the Prosecutors can prove at trial. Nothing more nothing less.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
25. The post was about the Prosecutor. Your article is about the
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 01:25 AM
Sep 2014

defense attorney. Two different attorneys.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
32. I know. You didn't get it.
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:14 PM
Sep 2014

Just because he says he thinks they are guilty, doesn't mean he thinks they are guilty.

Prosecutors are human too. They can also have criminal tendencies.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
33. Oh, you mean he is lying to cover his record.
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:54 PM
Sep 2014

True, I am sure he doesn't really care if they are guilty or not.

toncuz

(1 post)
13. The taxpayers will pay...not the criminally negligent prosecutors
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 11:06 AM
Sep 2014

If there is unprofessional and negligent or outright fraudulent acts by police or prosecutors, why do the taxpayers always have to pay? If police and prosecutors were charged and indicted and convicted, there wouldn't be many stories like this.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
23. People just vote for DA's who spout "tough on crime" in ads
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 05:52 PM
Sep 2014

without examining if they have any record of integrity or merit. Same with elected judges.

The justice system won't improve unless Americans get smarter.

Well, I think Americans are getting smarter, and justice is improving. But not fast enough. If they find the stones send some of those old prosecutors to prison, it would speed things up.

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
27. "Tough on crime" really mean "tough on blacks." That's what it is understood to mean by both blacks
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 05:05 AM
Sep 2014

and white. If law enforcement were really tough on crime half of Wall Street and main street would be in prison right now.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
24. I agree with the attorney.
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 01:23 AM
Sep 2014

Why the heck are police allowed to lie and intimidate? If they have a solid case they shouldn't need to do so. And plea bargaining is now being used to railroad innocent people. It is disgusting.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
30. amerikan justice
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:30 AM
Sep 2014

the best in the world, for incarcerating innocent minorities and shooting them down unarmed or choking them to death for selling untaxed cigarettes on the street or having skittles and tea in your hands and looking thuggish in your own neighborhood to a wannabe policeman. The list goes on and on. Yep, the best in the world. sarcasm smilie just in case

exboyfil

(17,862 posts)
28. Here is one of the appeal filings
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:16 AM
Sep 2014

in the case. The two brothers implicated two other individuals who had rock solid alibis in the case in their confessions. That alone shows the confessions were crap that was fed to them at the time of their interrogation. At first I thought it was possible that the two were involved with the actual killer but not after reading this filing.




http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1281161/mccollum-brown-memo.pdf

Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
36. Abundant information in the filing you posted. Amazing.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:35 AM
Sep 2014

Shows you they were determined to take these two young men out of their lives and throw them away just because they could. Truth had NOTHING to do with it. What hate-filled monsters.

Thank you for your effort.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
39. Now that makes allegations of police misconduct
Mon Sep 8, 2014, 10:42 PM
Sep 2014

It mentions that the police officer who wrote the confession for the defendants testified at trial he did NOT provide any of the facts stated in the confession. The document said that can NOT be the case, but the only issue for the court on appeal was the DNA evidence favorable to the Defendant, and in this case the DNA was favorable.

Notice no findings by any Judge that the Police committed misconduct and such a finding was NOT needed to get the court to strike down the conviction under North Carolina DNA law.

The paper points out the Confession was clearly couched by the Police, but the court did NOT have to find that to be true to overturn the conviction.

That is the FIRST paper I have read that even mentions possible Police misconduct in this case.

Judi Lynn

(160,516 posts)
31. A Victory Over Justice System's Failure: Wrongly Convicted Brothers Freed After 31 Years in Prison
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 06:57 PM
Sep 2014

A Victory Over Justice System's Failure: Wrongly Convicted Brothers Freed After 31 Years in Prison
Friday, 05 September 2014 13:35
By Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez, Democracy Now! | Video Interview

Two African-American half-brothers have been exonerated of rape and murder after more than 30 years behind bars in North Carolina. Henry Lee McCollum and Leon Brown were found guilty in 1984 of the rape and murder of an 11-year-old girl. There was no physical evidence tying them to the crime, but police obtained confessions that McCollum and Brown have always said were coerced. Police at the time failed to investigate another man, Roscoe Artis, who lived near the crime scene and had admitted to a similar rape and murder at around the same time. After three decades, the case saw a major breakthrough last month when testing by North Carolina’s Innocence Inquiry Commission tied Artis’ DNA to the crime scene. After a hearing presenting the new evidence Tuesday, the two brothers were declared innocent and ordered freed. Over the years, death penalty supporters have cited the brothers’ case in order to back capital punishment. In 2010, the North Carolina Republican Party pasted McCollum’s mug shot on campaign mailers. In 1994, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia pointed to McCollum as an example of why the death penalty is just. We are joined by two guests: Vernetta Alston, one of the lawyers representing Henry Lee McCollum, and a staff attorney with the Center for Death Penalty Litigation; and Steven Drizin, clinical professor at Northwestern Law School and assistant dean of the Bluhm Legal Clinic, where for more than a decade he was legal director of the Center on Wrongful Convictions.

Video, and transcript at link:
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/26016-a-victory-over-justice-systems-failure-wrongly-convicted-brothers-freed-after-31-years-in-prison

(My emphasis.)

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