APNEWSBREAK: OBAMA TO DELAY IMMIGRATION ACTION

[madville]

Source: AP NEWS

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Abandoning his pledge to act by the end of summer, President Barack Obama has decided to delay any executive action on immigration until after the November congressional elections, White House officials said.

The move is certain to infuriate immigration advocates while offering relief to some vulnerable Democrats in tough Senate re-election contests.


Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_IMMIGRATION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-09-06-09-51-02

---

Good for some Senate Democrats but many Hispanic and immigration groups are already publicly condemning the decision.

[hrmjustin]

1. Better to wait till sfter the elections.

[madville]

4. Hopefully it doesn't diminish Hispanic voter turnout in some States

In a state like Texas it could cost Wendy Davis some votes but that is probably negated by the right wingers being a little less motivated. Right before the election was a horrible idea from the get go, makes you wonder who advised stuff like this sometimes.

[riversedge]

6. In reading the rest of the article, Hispanic leaders are NOT happy

[mucifer]

7. Yeah, it's gonna be a big problem. The increase in deportations under President Obama

are not good. Hopefully, Hispanics will vote in big numbers and vote liberal. But, it's gonna be tougher.

[treestar]

71. Why do people think not enforcing a law

is a good way to get votes? Even some Hispanics may believe the immigration law should be obeyed.

[mucifer]

147. It becomes very personal to people whose families are torn apart

Many of them know there was less deportation under bush. It's just how it is.

[7962]

176. Actually a LOT of them do.

[rhett o rick]

79. Why? Don't we trust the voters? Do the right thing and the voters will come. nm

[hrmjustin]

84. The senate seats are in the south this year so the map is harder.

I say it is better to wait the two months.

[rhett o rick]

96. I say it's a rationalization. Hispanic voters won't be happy and they make up a large

voting block in the South. I hope you are right.

[hrmjustin]

99. No. the southern seats in this years swing states do not make up a large bloc of voters.

If they did the president would have done it this week.

[rhett o rick]

106. Are you saying that Hispanics don't make up a large bloc of Democrats in the South? nm

[hrmjustin]

109. Demographicly in the states that have seats up it has less than say

Texas or Florida.

[treestar]

137. Why should anyone trust people who let Republicans win?

These are people who don't care. Not people who are just waiting for "the right thing" to be done. People who don't vote are people who don't care. There is no reason for Congress to care about them, therefore, and it shows.

[rhett o rick]

138. I didn't say a word about trusting republicans. How many Hispanic Democrats' votes will we

lose because the President is afraid to act now?

[24601]

153. Internal polls must indicate a bloodbath. 1st rule of holes: stop digging.

[djean111]

2. There seems to be no right and no wrong any more - just elections. And once elected, getting

Last edited Sun Sep 7, 2014, 05:36 PM - Edit history (1)

reelected. The election process seems to have completely obliterated the legislative process, because, of course, once elected, the politicians have to please the folks who paid for the election. And immediately start work on getting reelected.
And we seem to be okay with that.
Maybe the current state of electoral politics should just be staged like the Oscars. The people behind the scenes, the banks, Wall Street, corporations, the MIC, the CIA, the NSA - they are running things anyway.

[KoKo]

158. You Nailed it....It's been looking like that for awhile now...and this just confirms it...

Both Parties "Come Undone" in their collusion while the voters are left holding bags for backlash.

Disgusting...!

[reddread]

165. disenfranchised

[former9thward]

162. The most accurate post in this thread.

[LoisB]

168. You are absolutely right.

[LovingA2andMI]

171. This comment is so going on our Group FACEBOOK page....

Thank you for making it and being so on point about it.

[enigmatic]

186. +1 n/t

[woo me with science]

207. This is the correct answer.

No right or wrong anymore. Just a con job for the money.

[demwing]

3. What the hell?

acting now energizes our base

Delaying has the opposite effect.

[hrmjustin]

5. Acting now also activates their base and since most of the swing senate seats

are in the south it would have hurt.

[Sopkoviak]

10. And do you think not acting and kicking the can down the road

Won't lead to all kinds of hoary speculation on the part of "their" base and activate them?

Works both ways.

[hrmjustin]

13. if he did this now we would have likely lost the senate.

[Sopkoviak]

17. If doing the "right thing" is going to lose the Senate

Maybe it's not the right thing to do.

[hrmjustin]

18. It is not the right thing to lose.

Thinking of the judges we need to get through. Think of the harder time to get real legislation through.

The country will suffer with a republican senate.

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. SOME people that hang around DU .....just DO NOT understand how politics works I'm afraid!

[hrmjustin]

23. I get their anger but losing the senate would be a disaster.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. EXACTLY....

an impeachment and the gutting of Obamacares....and anything else the Republicans can manage to destroy...along the way.

President Obama NEEDS to maintain the Senate....THEN he has two solid years and the Executive Order pen fully loaded with ink!

You play the hand you are dealt the best way you can....I hear Pres. Obama is a pretty good poker player too!

[hrmjustin]

33. Exactly.

We have to save the senate.

[demwing]

45. What you're saying isn't true

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 12:32 PM - Edit history (1)

IF Obama were impeached, and IF he were convicted by the Senate (with some magic super majority the Republicans pulled out of their equally magical asses), the Republicans still have to get past Joe Biden. Have you ever seen Biden debate?

ALSO - Biden, whomever he selects as his VP, and a wave of Democratic Congresspersons would be set up for a 2016 victory.

Taking an Executive Action on immigration is not going to give the Republicans a super majority to convict on an impeachment, no matter how many times you run through this thread with your hair on fire.

[treestar]

65. lol

that's better than keeping the Senate now?

[lunamagica]

48. "Then he has two solid years and Executive Order pen fully loaded with ink"

Don't make me laugh. He's had FIVE years+ to act.

Mark my words...he will never do more than give lip service to this issue, because you know, t"here's always another election...better wait"

I've been telling so many people to keep the faith. To believe him when he said he'd do something by he end of this summer...

Well, I'm DONE

[treestar]

103. He's done all he can!

You're acting like Congress doesn't exist!

You aren't helping anyone with this. Least of all illegal aliens who dream of being legal. Because right now, it's a dream.

[leftyohiolib]

28. it would lead to a 2 year impeachment trial

[hrmjustin]

31. Yes.

[demwing]

57. And so? /nt

[hrmjustin]

59. They will drag it out.

[LovingA2andMI]

172. Democrat Talking Points...

When did they craft them for repeating like blind sheep? On Thursday? Heard the same lines on CNN earlier today from a "Dem Talking Head". It's amazing how the sit down and be happy Obama's in office lines work when another majority group gets kicked to the curve.

[still_one]

43. exactly. If we lose it would make immigration reform even more difficult, plus all the other issues

you brought up

[demwing]

98. How do you get more difficult than "No Chance in Hell"?

which is is what we have now, and the very reason Obama promised to take action!

[lunamagica]

116. Immigration reform will never happen, no matter who is in charge. nt

[GoCubsGo]

151. Not to mention...

If the Dems lost the Senate, the rethugs would pass legislation negating any executive orders the President has written, including and especially any related to immigration reform. Those assholes are suing him for issuing executive orders, for chrissakes.

[still_one]

154. hmmm, logic

[rhett o rick]

86. Sorry hrmjustin but doing the right thing should never be wrong politically.

If his actions will cause a negative reaction then he did a poor job of selling it.

[hrmjustin]

90. mistakes were made with the timing but I have to agree with waiting for the elections.

[rhett o rick]

94. Postponing actions for political reasons makes Democrats look weak and indecisive. nm

[hrmjustin]

97. Perhaps but it will pass.

2 months will pass soon.

[demwing]

100. Wow.

just wow...

[hrmjustin]

107. I am being realistic.

[lunamagica]

121. Mark my words

immigration reform will never happen.

It's all just lip service

[hrmjustin]

136. I hope you are wrong.

[lunamagica]

139. No one will be happier than me if I'm wrong

But I've lost all hope.

I don't know how I'm going to face all those whom I assured that "this time" he mean it. That he would not go back on his word in a matter of weeks, no, days.

I eagerly waited for the announcement...yes, I'm a real idiot.

[hrmjustin]

140. That was Obama's and his staff fault for getting people's hopes up

for a September announcement.

[Sunlei]

142. How about republicans all worked up for nothing hehe :P

have a little patience

[KoKo]

160. It opens the door wider for Hillary's Candidacy. She's already laid out her platform....

Obama is leaving her to deal with the McCain/Graham Contingent. She's doing well so far. She just praised Henry Kissinger and we know she's "Firm on Defense and a Hawk for Endless War." Along with her support for Goldman-Sachs...and Wall Street Criminality with no "time done."

She's also out there speaking to the Med-Tech Conventions. ADVO-MED is her second speaking engagement speaking to a Med-Pharma-Tech Group... And since she's not a Medical Expert or a Person with Influece at the FDA at this time ....yet she managed scoop another Guest Speaker Big Bucks Fee by doing two "Keynote Addresses" at the biggest gatherings of Med-Tech Industry...and Big Pharma is probably also on her agenda. I know about the ADVA-MED Conference because I have a relative who goes there every year.

Hillary is RUNNING..........Barring some scandal to come...which is hardly likely..since most of the stuff about Clintons is already out there, hashed over and "nothing to see there...more along" territory, these days.

[rhett o rick]

164. I think she has given up any pretense of supporting the 99%. She knows it's her or

some clown from the Farther Right. We must unseat her in the primaries. If not, I think the Repub-Clown will have a chance.

I say to the centrists that are living in denial, "Nominate H. Clinton-Sachs at your own peril. Don't blame the left if Jeb Bush wins."

[AngryAmish]

150. I can already hear the ads

"Sen. BillJoeJoey won't tell you his and Obama's secret amnesty plan to give yiur jobs to illegal immigrants. Why won't he? He is afraid to tell the people the truth."

[demwing]

14. Their base is ALREADY energized

it would be nice for the President to consider his own base.

Obama once said he was President of the United States, not just the Blue States (I paraphrase).

That is absolutely noble, but sometimes (especially when the opposition party defiantly stonewalls ANY action) you've got to stop trying to do the cha-cha with every person on the floor, and dance with the person who brought you in the door--because THAT'S noble as well.

The people that get pissed about Democratic ideas are not going to vote for Democrats any way. Fuck 'em. We tried, for 6 years.

Fuck 'em.

[hrmjustin]

15. I u derstand your anger but the southern state races are very close.

They figuredif they acted now they would lose them which is right in the end.

[VanillaRhapsody]

22. You are absolutely right WE HAVE to hold the Senate....

if we lose it....Obama is Impeached....and they gut Obamacares! And that is ALL that will happen until his term ends.

[demwing]

38. IF we lose the Senate, it won't be by enough to impeach Obama

or rather, to convict him on whatever charges the House can impeached. That would require a super-majority in the Senate.

Second, if they managed to remove Obama from office, they don't get to gut Obamacare as a prize. What they'll get is a pissed off Joe Biden.

In the end, we'll have depressed Hispanic voters, possibly for multiple elections, and we'll deserve it because we decided to turn away from the ethical, and embrace the political.

Which brings me back to my original comment: "What the Hell?"

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. You must be dreaming.....

what do you think will happen during a 2 yr impeachment trial?

they would own the House the Senate AND the Supreme Court as well....What do YOU think would happen to ANY immigration reform under those circumstances?

you are thinking short-sighted...

[demwing]

52. I am dreaming, which is infinitely better than scheming

and what do YOU think will happen during a two year impeachment trial?

I think nothing will get done without executive action, kinda like right now.

I think the President will be publicly perceived as having stood on the strength of his convictions

I think the President's job approval will hit 65-70%

I think that impeachment over executive actions would be the stupidest thing that the Republicans could do.

[treestar]

69. None of that is remotely possible

Scheming is better than dreaming if it gets us somewhere.

Using illegal aliens as the basis for standing on his convictions getting him 75% approval is a dream.

[VanillaRhapsody]

117. No actually its not.....

you have to have a "strategy"......that is what you must be calling a "scheme"....

AGAIN...IF we lose the Senate NONE of that shit you care about matters....ITS ON!!!!

Impeachment trial.....and the end of Obamacares among anything else the Teabaggers and Koch Bros can manage to fuck the hell up!

GOOD luck with your "strategy" of wish in one hand....

[demwing]

122. Claiming "the end of Obamacares" is a blatant scare tactic, and UNTRUE

you know that there's no electoral math that would allow the Senate to flip so far that an Impeachment would stick, or that they could override a veto.

Stop spreading this falsehood.

[VanillaRhapsody]

144. Have you not been paying attention to what the teabaggers talk about?

are you serious?

They WANT to prove Obama an Illegitimate President.....do you understand that REQUIRES that they stamp out ANY success he had along with it....

keep trying....
ahahahahahaha!

[demwing]

159. Show us the math

don't just start a panic, show us how an immigration action will flip enough Senate seats to convict after impeachment. Then show the math on how the repukes can overcome a Presidental veto

I dont give a damn what the Teabaggers WANT to do... I care about what they CAN do, and they cannot do what you are claiming.

Laugh all you like, or panic all you like. THE MATH DOESN'T SUPPORT YOU!!!

[VanillaRhapsody]

184. I care about what THEY can do too...IF they take the Senate...

OH Yes the MATH does support me...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/fivethirtyeights-senate-model-is-back-and-it-gives-republicans-the-edge/


THE MATH.....IT BURNS!!!!

[demwing]

190. Maybe you just don't know...

The Senate requires a 2/3 supermajority to convict on Impeachment--that's 67 votes.

Overriding a Presidential veto requires a 2/3 supermajority in BOTH Houses.

There's no math that allows for a Senate flip of that dimension, nor anything even remotely close.

The link you provided was a discussion on whether the Republicans can pull off a SIMPLE majority.

That's not even enough to stop a Dem filibuster.

THe math doesn't support you at all.

Not even a little.

[VanillaRhapsody]

192. UH you are better at Math and Statistics now than 538.com?

really?

[demwing]

194. You're either willfully ignoring facts...

...unable to follow, or just playing a game.

[LovingA2andMI]

173. The FEAR Factor....

Democrat or Republican Talking Point Number 2: "If you/we/us did this, fire/brimstone/the end of the Earth will happen because we said so.

Americans need to stop falling for the Fear Factor as its only a TV show.

[VanillaRhapsody]

185. So which are you...Democrat or Republican?

[LovingA2andMI]

189. Good one...

Not going to work. Click the link below to "Figure out" what we are. The one in the signature line. Considering we have served honorably on more DU Juries than we can count, DU has not problem figuring out "what we are".

Meanwhile, why are you promoting the FEAR FACTOR in politics? Does this make the FEAR a powerful FORCE to make FOLKS do a WILL someone WANTS without explaining all the FACTS?

Anytime now. We'll wait.....

[VanillaRhapsody]

191. figures..."Independent"

You don't know me very well do you?

Ask around....my reputation precedes me..

Let me guess "Rand Paul"?


BTW....Independent Underground is ---thataway--->

[LovingA2andMI]

197. Oh my God...

You are so funny, not. Rand Paul is Libertarian - Republican (in fact, he serves in the Senate as a Republican) not Independent (Like our FAVORITE SENATOR EVER -- Independent Bernie Sanders) or Independent Progressive-Left.

However, nice try but you hit a brick wall of tried and failed to make a between Independent-Progressive Left and Republican connection. It's actually reeks desperation for losing the debate and assuming things; instead of asking flat out and receiving an direct answer....no snuffing the Vanilla, required.

[VanillaRhapsody]

204. snuffing?

If you are not a democrat.....then you are not "one of us".

[LovingA2andMI]

205. If You're Not a WHAT? LOL!!! That's Funny!!!

LOL! The social media world is so sick, its' actually funny. Sickly funny --- but funny in the same light. Who is the "US"?

You Vanilla Child that make excuses for any Democrat, because they are a Democrat or the enlighten ones that take a critical eye because no one is perfect --- especially in the dirty world of politics.

Yes, sicky funny --- or shameful.

Either way, I don't have time, energy or felt like discussing this useless convo back and forth further --- but to say --- being enlighten is a REALLY GOOD THING.

Bye-bye!

[VanillaRhapsody]

211. and because you are NOT a Democrat...I don't care what you think of me....

you opinion means NUTS!

[VanillaRhapsody]

193. So there's a concerted "we" you speak for?

a We of Independents who you seem to be bragging have taken over the Jury system at DU are are making some veiled threat?

Oh and for good measure...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/03/what-if-republicans-capture-the-senate/359694/

the numbers do not favor your contentions....

[still_one]

56. Actually they won't own the Senate. I know that is what our illustrious media would like people to

think, and it is probably a good thing so people get out and vote, however I believe we will hold onto the Senate. Worst possible case is we will have 51 Senate seats.

The seats we will have as long as people vote are:

Durbin
Franken
Booker
Merkley
Warner

That will give us 50 votes. Remember that in that case the VP breaks a tie

In addition, Shaheen in NH looks very good which would make it 51.

There are some toss up states which look good also, Pryor, Udall, Peters

My point is worst case would be a tie, but there are enough toss ups and other factors including Kansas with the Democrat dropping out and the independent within striking range, that as long as people get out the vote, we will not lose the Senate

[demwing]

60. Exactly. BUT, if we DID lose 2 to 3 seats

the Republicans STILL won't have the number to convict on am impeachment charge.

[still_one]

64. You are correct.

[amandabeech]

179. Are you referring to this chart over at Real Clear Politics?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2014/senate/2014_elections_senate_map.html

It lists the five senators that you do, but I think that they are "likely Dem." I read the chart to say that we start with a base of 39 safe seats or seats that are not up this year. So add "likely Dem" to safe to get 44. Then add Jean Shaheen in their "leans Dem" category for 45. Then we need at least 5 of the 9 toss-ups, which include Pryor, Udall, Peters, etc.

Please correct me if my less favorable reading of the chart is wrong.

[still_one]

180. You are correct, I read it wrong, we have a major issue, it will be an uphill fight, and the only

way we have a chance is if people GOTV, and even then it is very precarious

[amandabeech]

181. You are right. GOTV will be crucial. n/t

[PoutrageFatigue]

210. So is throwing in the towel before you even get in the ring...

... which this particular President is extremely adept at...

[hrmjustin]

44. Some house seats might be impacted but the Senate seats are in states with small

hispanic populations with one or two exceptions.

[24601]

182. Just catching up on this morning's Meet the Press and believe you're right on the numbers. The

point highlighted was that in 8 of the 9 states with endangered Democratic Senate Seats, Hispanic citizens make up less than 10% of the electorate.

The President had taped a MTP segment and said that his decision to delay immigration action wasn't based on domestic politics. I really dislike calling the President, any President, disingenuous, so I'll just say: "Mr. President, your staff has did an exceptionally poor job preparing you for your appearance. It's as if they put in deliberate efforts to make you seem uninformed, dishonest, or both. You should make some staff changes."

[lunamagica]

49. I agree totelly with everything you said. nt

[treestar]

68. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot they can do so

What do they think they will get with a tea party government.

We're talking about illegal aliens, and it's hard to have them as a draw to get Americans to vote for something. They are not supposed to be here. Only so many people are sympathetic to them.

[rhett o rick]

91. Seems there is always a rationalization to not do the correct thing. This action

makes Democrats look afraid. Afraid to take actions they think might not be popular. This may hurt reelections and not help.

[24601]

155. There's no impeachment, not now, not next year, not ever in this presidency. It never was anything

more than a fiction dreamed up to light a fire under our progressive base. And it fizzled. And all the loose talk just showed how much people, even politically active, don't know about the Constitution.

Holding the Senate has nothing to do with impeachment since conviction requires 2/3 of sitting Senators voting guilty.

Holding the Senate is all about confirmation of federal judges. If the Senate changes majority, Justice Ginsburg will come under tremendous pressure to retire immediately to enable confirmation of her replacement before the 114th Congress is seated. Nobody deserves the treatment she will face.

[7962]

177. I agree. I know they can be stupid, but I just dont see 'em being THAT stupid

Impeachment would just make them look like fools for the months it would go on.
But have at it.

[treestar]

66. our base will not be energized either way

Obama knows that.

Our base is never energized. Theirs is fanatical. Especially on this issue.

[treestar]

62. I agree. our base on this is not nearly as fanatical as theirs

Every damn person i run into is judgmental about illegal immigrants.

[azmom]

156. The term is

Undocumented immigrant. Thank you.

[The Straight Story]

196. So it's like the 'keep your powder dry' folks on gay rights in 2006/08/10... (nt)

[bigdarryl]

152. Yep once again Obama is more worried about republicans than his own base

[vi5]

8. Perpetual election cycle

Such a great excuse for doing nothing, always.

[lunamagica]

58. Exactly. What about doing what is right?

[demwing]

87. Right? That's an old fashioned notion

[lunamagica]

89. Sigh

[Fred Sanders]

9. If the Senate is lost then all is lost, why should that keep Hispanic voters away, rather than fire

them up?

Is it not crystal clear who is on their freaking side and who is not?

Want immigration action, then get to the polls and tell us how much you want it.

The gratuitous comments by AP is more corporate/GOP mass media propaganda.

AP hands the propaganda out like gift wrapped candy to spread far and wide as news folks please...can even be altered to suit your agenda.

[riversedge]

11. Per the article--from Wales he sounded like he would do it on Friday--now today, we

have a different story. I do not know what to think about this sudden change....


..........During a news conference Friday in Wales, Obama reiterated his determination to act on his own even as he avoided making a commitment on timing. He also spelled out ambitious objectives for his executive actions.

Obama said that without legislation from Congress, he would take steps to increase border security, upgrade the processing of border crossers and encourage legal immigration. He also said he would offer immigrants who have been illegally in the United States for some time a way to become legal residents, pay taxes, pay a fine and learn English.

"I want to be very clear: My intention is, in the absence of ... action by Congress, I'm going to do what I can do within the legal constraints of my office, because it's the right thing to do for the country," he said........

[Sunlei]

12. Nov.is 2 months away. Best to wait,see if we can elect more who care about immigration.

care in a good and decent way.

[Lobo27]

16. Well, I can already see Univision this coming Sunday.

They'll have that Cuban congresswoman from Florida bashing Obama and saying he doesn't care for hispanics.

[VanillaRhapsody]

24. and THAT will be bullshit....are you saying the Hispanic base doesn't understand that?

[Lobo27]

25. No I'm saying I'm hispanic, and this is what they always do.

Anything immigration related and they bring her in. Like a year or so ago. She said it was Obama's fault they were legal. She said dems controlled everything and did nothing. Do it all the time.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. So ......do they listen? Does everyone believe everything on Fox News?

there are no hispanics that do not realize that Republicans are NOT their friends....

NOW the Repukes are claiming that hispanic immigrant children are disease carrying vermin......does THAT sit well with them?

[lunamagica]

46. And it's looking more and more klie Democrats aren't our feiends either

I've been telling people all summer (people who were losing faith in him) "See, it's finally happening. He said by the end of this summer, believe him)

I'm such an idiot.

What I'm supposed to tell them now?

It's only been five years. what's another, or five, or ten more?

Hispanics are only pawns to be used

[treestar]

75. Why didn't they turn up in 2010?

Because it wasn't done fast enough?

Immigration laws affect only a relatively small number of people - demanding they be changed is something that has to overcome a hurdle of a great majority who doesn't care and just says things like "it's fine if they come legally." And that letting more legal immigrants in will hurt the job market.

[lunamagica]

125. It was done fast enough?

Are you serious?

It's been SIX YEARS, with no resolution is sight. How can anyone think this is right?

And if people are demanding, is because he made it a big issue, because he promised

Unbelievable!

[treestar]

131. Um, four of these years featured a Republican Congress

that vowed never to cooperate with the President and even threatened shut down and debt default!

[lunamagica]

134. And two did not. nt

[treestar]

135. So maybe they should have shown up in 2010 as I said

Even two years is a limited time. The health care battle was enough. And that was for citizens and still has opponents.

[VanillaRhapsody]

183. Exactly treestar...exactly....

There are several voting blocs that have needs that should be addressed.....but Rome wasn't built in a day. We have to stick together to vote OUT the common enemy. They are what are really standing between US ALL and reform!

[Lobo27]

55. They may not listen now, but if it changes then we're deep shit.

I mean look at Southern GoP base they're brainwashed to no end. They are some of the poorest people in the country, and yet the continually vote for people that give no shits about them.

[LovingA2andMI]

174. Univision is....

A part of NBC Universal or the same channel that hosts the Rachel Maddow show. Last time we checked, Maddow was not on Fox News, however NBC Universal is co-owned by the Corporate Koch Brothers Associated Friend of Comcast Corporation.

See the lines of our USA politico landscape are not as separated as it would be believed.....

[lunamagica]

67. You bet the Obama and the Democrats will get trashed tomorrow on Univision

As they should.

I pity whoever has to defend Obama's position:

"Yes, yes a few days ago he was fully commited to this, but...but we think that is a better pollitical move to wait...again. Come'on it's only been six years, and your know we LUUUV Hispanics"

Meanwhile, the viewers who live in fear day by day of family being separated, of children being sent back to be murdered are going to enthusiastically agree and say "They LUVVV us!!!"

[Sopkoviak]

30. Are you saying the the RW base won't be energized?

Their noise machine is already cranking up the speculation...



How long did that take?

2 months of this, I hope the Democrats have crafted a real good message.

[VanillaRhapsody]

35. How does THAT make them vote for Republicans?

when Republicans think Hispanic immigrant children are disease carrying vermin? Had they not seen the throngs of White folks screaming epithets at those poor children on the busses? Are their memories THAT short?

[Sopkoviak]

40. Non-citizens can't vote

White racist Repubs can and they still outnumber Hispanics and live in fear of losing that majority.

And they have just been handed a crawl over broken glass incentive to show up for mid-terms which normally don't draw flies.

[VanillaRhapsody]

42. Oh COME ON!....That is ridic....THEY Always turn out in the midterms....that is not new

AT ALL.....

the only reason we lose the MT's is because WE don't show up for them....that is all!

when WE vote WE win.....even when THEY vote!

[lunamagica]

73. It won't. They just wont vote

Yeah, insults are awful, but what we need is action, not lip service and it is obvious no one is willing to act

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Yeah...SOMEONE IS willing to act.....but SOMEONE is not going to RISK that change

which WE WOULD IF we lose the Senate...what good is immigration reform....if Republicans GUT it? If THEY win THEY WILL!


Again you are thinking short sighted....this is strategic. Winning is one thing.....holding ON TO the WIN is another....

[Iliyah]

47. Ha ha ha then that should bring out the ones who can legally vote, i.e.

Asians, Latinos, and others who live in the South. Oppression for voting tactics just went up notch.

[OldRedneck]

20. Best to wait until after the election

Yes, this action will make some people unhappy. However, if this action by Obama saves the Senate for Democrats, then it's a good thing. Could be Obama is looking at the long term versus doing something that would be popular with some but hugely unpopular with others.

As for voting -- even if he issued a blanket "amnesty" for people in this country illegally, that doesn't mean thousands upon thousands are going to flock to the polls and vote for Democrats.

Good move.

[lunamagica]

34. Good thing is not your family suffering. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

37. so even if he DID do this now....what do YOU think happens to the legislation once

Republicans own the House AND the Senate and the Supreme Court, to it and the impeachment proceedings begin?

Is that what you want?

[lunamagica]

54. I want Obama to fullfil the promise he made over 6 years ago

I want him to keep the word he gave just a few weeks ago. How was the situation so different when he made the promise a few weeks ago?

I want him to stop playing us

I want some respect

[treestar]

76. Elections are about majorities

And Obama is already laying off on deporting people with citizen spouses.

[lunamagica]

85. How big of him

Now, please, could he shut his mouth and not make promises he wont keep?

[treestar]

92. Yes it is big of him, since the law requires otherwise they will be deported

They are not legally in the US. Really, what an attitude. Any other laws you think people are entitled to break and the POTUS or other executive is a jerk for enforcing?

I don't feel like paying taxes. How dare Obama let the IRS loose on me!!!!

[lunamagica]

108. May I remind you that this was supposed to be an issue near and dear to his heart

Since he was a candidate? That he has made promise after promise about immigration reform and family reunification?

His word? His promises?

Really, what an attitude.

If Obama thinks undocumented immigrants are criminals, he should have just said so. But he didn't. Hi portrayed himself as their champion who would fix immigration. He portrayed himself as being on their side

He either lied, or is too spineless, or lacks conviction to keep HIS word and HIS promises

That is the problem

Get it?

[treestar]

129. What do you think his promise was?

In our political system, to support something, and sign it when Congress produces it.

Since he didn't have that Congress, he did as best he could with the Executive power! And got a lot of grief for doing it!

[lunamagica]

132. Oh, really

Don't you fight, don't you try, you just wait?

Spineless

[totodeinhere]

21. This is a no win situation for the president. Do it and red state Democrats are mad.

Don't do it and Hispanics are mad. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. But those are the sorts of challenges that come with his job.

[Savannahmann]

61. This situation existed at the beginning of the summer

The Polls then indicated that a majority of people favored immediate deportations. Yet, President Obama promised executive action by the end of the summer if he didn't get the legislation he wanted.

The problem with a big bluff is this, you have to back it up. If you tell your spouse that you will leave if they don't stop drinking, and they keep drinking, there's nothing left but to leave. If you stay, no threat you make will ever be taken seriously.

It showed compassion, but zero political forethought. Now, President Obama looks weak. The Hispanic voters feel betrayed. The Liberals feel disappointment. The RW on the other hand, they feel energized. If they can make the President back down when they have the minority in the Senate, imagine what will happen when they win the Senate, and it looks like they're going to win the Senate.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2014/senate/2014_elections_senate_map_no_toss_ups.html

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/senate-model/

We're winding up the election season and our campaign strategy has been to pray that the Rethugs screw up. But this time they avoided nominating people who would go out and toss out statements like "real rape" or racist nonsense. We let them run their races, we let them define the issues, and we let them set the tone of the discussion. Then we're surprised, hurt, and angry that they start winning?

We did not stand up for any ideals, we would not commit to any principles, and the one hope we had of managing the discussion about immigration, we threw away chasing rabbits. We should have been holding town hall meetings all over the nation about Immigration. Describing the people who are striving to live free. Instead, we let the RW set the agenda, and we didn't want to discuss anything.

So now, Immigration reform is dead. If the Rethugs take the Senate, and the President takes "executive action" finally. Then the Rethugs first act will be to pass some sort of law utterly defeating it. The President could Veto, but then he spends the last two years of his Presidency showing how immobile he is while the Rethugs pass legislation after resolution and have the narrative news cycle sewn up going into 2016. Any guesses how that works out for us?

If you're going to say you will do something. You have to do it. If you aren't going to do it, keep your mouth shut. It is no more complicated than that.

[totodeinhere]

145. Thank you. That is a very thoughtful analysis. You should have been one of the president's

political advisers on this issue.

[Ash_F]

200. All the red state Dems I know are pro reform

Most independents too.

I think the feared demographic of racists-who-would-otherwise-vote-D is nonexistent.

[totodeinhere]

202. What were the president's political advisers thinking then when they advised him to delay? n/t

[Ash_F]

203. Maybe they are idiots?

I am going to go with that.

[Iliyah]

26. Pres O probably do have a viable immigration plan

which will get much negative feedback from the "Christian" right. He needs at least one house in congress majority although in reality it will not pass due to the GOP house majority. Although a water down plan was passed by the Senate which the GOP lead house quickly discounted another attempt by the Senate and subsequent dismissal by GOP lead house would further concrete moving forward with an executive order by the President. This would be viewed that congress' senate tried but the house would not accept such a measure. No matter what Pres O do, impeachment will always be thrown in his face and matter of fact, there is a pattern of GOP's control of one of the houses that impeachment will always be considered if that person in the White House is not a GOP.

I believe most advocates for immigration reforms understand that. And we are not just talking about Spanish speaking illegals. There are many illegals here from many other countries, especially Asia.

[Sunlei]

77. recent a dreamer advocate asked a Republican a ? about why he wants to deport everyone.

Even to deport people who have been here a lifetime, people who have paid taxes (not even benefited from those taxes!) not allow people who want to serve, to join the military.

You know what the Republicans answer was? he called her a criminal. no suggestions, he called her a criminal. The republican supporter , kept saying "go home", when America is her home!!

I can't find the video now, this was last month, its was some republican run for election in one of the border states.

Lets have a couple months of Republicans who call people 'criminals' , because that kind of attitude will cost them votes from reasonable people. VOTE!

[treestar]

80. Exactly it would have passed already but for the Republican House

And now there are people in the thread arguing that people should stay home again over this issue!

Maybe they should have turned up in 2010.

People think their non-voting gives them power, and thinking that is dumber than can be. Threats to not vote give them no power and give the power over to people who will work against them. Some people like to suffer, I guess.

[amandabeech]

187. Yes, 2010 was a disaster for the President and the country.

It was not only a disaster on the national level, but at the state level as well.

Congressional districts are redrawn after every census, and 2010 was a census year.

Republican success in the state houses and the state legislatures means that House districts will be redrawn to send as many Republicans as possible to Congress and the state legislatures.

Unfortunately, we'll be living with these districts until after the 2020 census.

Makes me ill.

[lunamagica]

32. Another broken promise

How many times? how much longer must people suffer?

I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth anymore

[Iliyah]

41. I guess "Dreamers" executive order?

I believe him more than any GOPer.

Go Vote. If not, so be it.

[candelista]

36. If it's so unpopular, maybe he shouldn't do it at all.

From a political point of view, as well as from the moral point of view (respect for democracy), this may not be such a good thing.

[conservaphobe]

50. Good decision.

The Senate will be won or lost on Republican turf.

This would have energized their base to unforeseen levels.

Better to wait. 2 months is no big deal. But whiners will whine.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

53. No big deal?

Let me guess, you're not Hispanic? Keep telling marginalized communities that their issues are "no big deal" and watch them stop turning out for elections.

[conservaphobe]

63. As someone in a conservative state who wants to kick the GOP candidate to the curb...

That's a bigger deal to me than doing something now that can be briefly put off until November.

I live in one of the poorest districts in the country. I know more about class marginalization than most.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

70. How many of your family members have been deported?

?

[conservaphobe]

72. Not as many that have struggled as a result of conservative economic policies.

That's my battle.

Everyone else is free to choose their own.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

78. Then don't get mad when they don't show up to support you.

...

[treestar]

88. Who cares - they are shooting themselves in the foot.

If they get Republicans in office and that means no amnesty and more enforcement of the current law, they'll regret not supporting others who were closer to their goals.

This is so illogical an argument.

I need Obamacare, so if they don't show up, they are cutting that back for themselves and not supporting me either.

This attitude does not get what politics is about. It's not about getting everything you want.

[lunamagica]

95. Newsflash: There wont be any Amnesty, as for enforcing the laws, didn't you know

Obama has deported more people than any of his predecessors?

I thought we were in this to support each other needs, but I see I was wronng

[treestar]

101. No you are saying the rest of us should support your needs

and hell with it, you'll stay home and could not care less about ours (or others of your own).

Obama was entitled to deport every one of those people who were here illegally. He could have not had to because their status could be changed had we had a Dem House the whole time. Oh well, let's make it even worse in this last two years. That'll get your needs met.

As it is, he is going only on Executive Orders and prosecutorial discretion. But it would be better to have a D house with actual legislation. That's what would actually help these people. So you are hurting them too with this illogical attitude.

[lunamagica]

113. He had a dem house for two years

And he promised immigration reform the first year.

You have made clear you only care about yours. I get it. Have a nice day

[treestar]

123. No you made it clear you care only about you

The not fast enough argument is silly. 1 - they should have voted in 2010 and kept a Dem house with more 2 - you're not punishing Obama with it, you're punishing them. There's no deadline..

I see you've given up because you realize how unsustainable that view is. There's always the future. You don't give up because soothing you want doesn't happen fast enough. That's handing the opposition what they want.

[lunamagica]

128. SIX YEARS< with no resolution is sight

but you got yours, and nothing else matters, I get it

[Iliyah]

143. For crying out loud

President Ronald Reagan signed the 1986 Amnesty Act which was enacted by the "Democratic Party" majority in Congress. Please, there is no you got mine stuff happening here. A fair immigration bill will pass and/or executive order.

[Tarheel_Dem]

178. Then your beef is with Nancy Pelosi. Where was the legislation?

I keep thinking that activists calling on this president to rule unilaterally will come to regret it. Remember the problem we had with Bush governing by EO and signing statements? What's the difference?

Activists have to realize that threats only work to their disadvantage. If they're one issue voters, then their support is weak, at best.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

105. You were wrong.

It's only white liberals that get to decide who gets what.


The anti-Hispanic racism is strong in this thread.

[lunamagica]

111. I can see that. I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. nt

[ForgoTheConsequence]

114. I'm not surprised.

The "they'll like what we give them and be quiet" Democrats have been very vocal lately and it's one of the worst forms of racism in my opinion because it gives marginalized people false hope, then when it comes time to go to bat for those marginalized people politicians chicken out and white liberals are there to tell those marginalized folks that "you don't understand, this is how politics works" in the most condescending of manners.

[lunamagica]

118. wrong place

[lunamagica]

119. It is really insulting

So Hispanics are just some little paws to be used when needed; otherwise, they should stay in corner and be quiet. There are more important issues for Democrats, don't you understand?

[LovingA2andMI]

175. Exactly....

How it feels to be African-American too.....unfortunately, while the President is half-African-American.

At least under EVERY OTHER Democratic President, our expectations could never be too high because, they were not African-American. For President Obama.....well Hope and Change is a 11.6% Unemployment Rate for African-Americans STILL, Minority (Chocolate) Cities like Detroit's on-going Bankruptcy and with Water Shutoffs while Washington looks the other way, and someone (SHARPTON) who thought it was the appropriate time to take the tragic death of a teenager (Michael Brown) to flip the script to a Voter Resignation drive instead.

Yes, it tough being African-American and looking at the realities, indeed.

[Ash_F]

201. Glad you got what you wanted then

Not surprised to read this comment from you.

"Who cares", indeed.

[treestar]

83. None.

Absolutely none.

But I should stay home and let the Republicans win the Senate. That's going to bring your family members back here.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

112. So brown people should vote Democrat because you said so?

Interesting narrative. That's sure to pack the polling places.

[treestar]

124. Brown people should vote Democratic because it's in their best interests?

So brown people should stay home, let Republicans win, and suffer more because what? You said so? It'll make you feel more righteous?

People should vote for Democrats! Not sit home and let Republicans win to "punish" the Democrats! That's making punishing Democrats for not doing enough fast enough more important than their own alleged interests. If that is what they are doing, I conclude they don't care at all about a more liberal immigration law.

[totodeinhere]

146. This is about more than just brown people. Many Hispanics are lilly white.

And others are black or of Asian ancestry. This is about fair treatment of all Hispanics and other immigrants regardless of skin color.

[treestar]

81. If their own issues were a big deal to THEM, then they'd

vote for Democrats!!!!!!!

[ForgoTheConsequence]

115. They did and do historically.

And this is what they've gotten......

[treestar]

120. They would have gotten more had they shown up in 2010

As it is they should support Obama for what he's done with Executive power. The best way to support Obama for what he's already done with that would be to get Democrats in the House and Senate majorities so he could get real legislation and not just push executive powers.

Really if they don't see this, they are the only ones who will suffer.

You can't do politics on a "this is not enough" basis. The conservatives win every time with that. They are happy with the status quo.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

188. Should?

Maybe when white liberals stop talking down to minorities and start treating them with the respect they deserve, they'll turn out. Your post and frankly your entire narrative is insulting if not racist.

[Reter]

169. I'm a Hispanic who was born here

I support the President.

[Savannahmann]

163. Indeed. Interesting read.

It has the unique virtue of being bereft of both logic, and any awareness of reality.

What the President has done, single handedly, is take up an issue, and then lay it down and back away from that issue out of perceived fear. Do you realize that does not help us in November at all? How can being the party who is afraid to take up an issue be a good thing? Remember Rand Paul running from the Dream Act woman? Well the Democratic Party President just ran from a few million Dream Act people. Tell me how this helps us? Can we now pretend that we agree with the Rethugs on this issue too? We could if our campaign strategy was "Vote for me, I'm just like the other guy except I'm nicer, and now we smell like a pine forest after a rain storm."

What we have done with this one move is disappoint and alienate the Hispanics. Thankfully they're not a big voting block. Just the largest minority group. No worries, I'm sure they'll go and stand in long lines to vote for the Democrats now.

We Liberals on the other hand spent the summer debating what courageous action the President would take. The courageous action appears to be in the mold of Sir Robin to those who pay only passing attention to politics. Folks who get a few minutes of news between songs on the radio, or the TV on in some waiting room.

So Liberals are disappointed, Hispanics feel betrayed and it's not a long walk from betrayed to either sitting the election out, bad, or voting against those who betrayed you, worse. Remember, our battle cry this and every election is that we can't let them win. The average person will wonder why they shouldn't let the Rethugs win, it's not like we do anything when we win.

So there is no upside to the path the President took, and a lot of downside. People who were on the fence before about who to vote for will not be swayed by this debacle. People who were thinking of voting Rethug because the President announced he was going to do executive action on amnesty, aren't going to come back in the numbers we need to win the Senate.

The situation we're in now is exactly what I was talking about in this post. We're not fighting to win, we're fighting to keep from losing. When you do that, there is no way to win, and President Obama just proved the point. In the end, our chances of winning in November are no better than they were last week. If anything, we've managed to diminish those chances a little more.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

51. "This is how politics works" said the white liberal.

Spineless.

[treestar]

93. Being brave doesn't always work

Sometimes the brave person's brave act causes the undesired result. That's why it's called being brave.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

102. Neither does perpetual marginalization.

They'll be all about Hispanics when they're asking for donations and speaking at town halls in predominantly Hispanic areas, but if when push comes to shove Hispanics are pushed aside (again) don't expect them to support Democrats in the future.

[treestar]

104. So who will they support, the Republicans?

If they want to go against their own interests that's on them.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

110. Who knows?

Maybe they'll start their own party? As a white liberal you really don't have a say in what they do. If they need to find another means to empower themselves, so be it.

If it's a choice between someone who doesn't care about you or someone who hates you, well that isn't much of a choice.

[treestar]

127. Nothing stops them from doing that

Of course, coalitions are needed in order to get anywhere with what you want.

Yeah the Democrats "hate" them. Right.

OK go form a party dedicated to immigration, and exclude all the white liberals.

Why should white liberals care in that instance? If that's how the attitude will be, then well, white liberals have interests, too. Are you saying we have no rights?

[vi5]

126. You just summed up the entirety of the Democratic party platform.

"What are you going to do, vote Republican?"

So inspiring, isn't it.

[lunamagica]

130. You are killing me

[treestar]

133. It should be

Politics is about coalitions. If your one issue trumps participating, you get no where on your one issue.

Let the Rs win the Senate and there will be no reform. Do you honestly think the Immigrant Party is going to win the House and the Senate? If they did at least Obama would sign what they come up with.

[vi5]

148. Who said I have one issue?

That's their solution and answer to all issues.

Don't hold Wall Street accountable, or worse yet but Wall Street cronies in your administration?

"What are you going to do, vote for the Republicans?

Kick immigration reform down the road?

"What are you going to do, vote for the Republicans?"

Shitty education policy and secretary of education?

"What are you going to do, vote for the Republicans?

It's a one size fits all slogan and platform. The perfect excuse for never doing anything and never being held accountable.

Obama still holds the veto pen, even if we lose the Senate right? Or is it that you also realize that he can't be trusted to veto Republican legislation?

[totodeinhere]

149. It's not unthinkable that some Hispanics might vote Republican. Remember that

GWB got better than 40% of the Hispanic vote. And in a close election only a slight uptick in Hispanic support might be enough to put them over the top. The GOP knows that it probably cannot get a majority of Hispanic votes. But 40% as opposed to 30% could make a big difference. That's what I'm afraid of.

[JCMach1]

141. Profile in NOT SO MUCH COURAGE

[woo me with science]

208. Profile in collusion. nt

[Eagle_Eye]

157. Accepting this much anguish to win the election must mean it is important

[/font]
If our President is willing to undergo the torment and retribution from immigrants in this country to win this election; it must be one very important election for us to win.

The choice is simple:

Dwell on this turn of events amongst ourselves as the Republicans pass us by on the way to victory

or

Get our rear ends in gear and win the next election

The 2014 midterms have consequences well beyond the 114th Congress of the United States. The Republicans have to be stopped, and it cannot wait. We have to stop them now, and get everyone to the polls to vote in November. This is a 'Must Win' situation.

[mvd]

161. It is possible action could drive up turnout on our side

We need issues in off year elections. I just am tired of us conceding to conservative Democrats, especially ones that don't want anything to do with the President.

[msanthrope]

166. Pragmatic decision that I don't have to love. nt

[loyalsister]

167. He's right and the immigration advocates are right

It's going to be hard enough to keep some seats without opening the door to more awkward questions to answer at campaign events and controversy for republicans to exploit.

On the other hand, he gave the immigration advocates the impression that he would act, and in their favor. It's completely understandable that they would feel like they have been shoved aside in the name of elections. I've been there it's frustrating.

[ripcord]

195. The problem is that now the republicans don't even have to prove anything

They can claim the President is going to grant a blanket amnesty or open the borders or any crazy thing they can come up with and all we know for sure is that he is going to take some kind of action some time in the future. How can candidates defend against something no one knows the facts about?

[loyalsister]

198. They can't prove or disprove the future

When the policy is initiated, we won't have the facts of the results for a very long time. Their rhetoric seems to me to have nothing to do with proof or facts. Giving them concrete facts gives them an opportunity to distort them. They have claimed Obama behaves like a dictator and they would love to have one more action to distort to back up their claim.

The Democrats can run on reforming congress so that it can be an effective part of the checks and balances and they will not have to defend any recent controversial decisions coming out of the white house.

When candidates have an option to lean on vague slogans and don't have a concrete vote or policy to defend, they are in a better position to use popular talking points.
"Holding them accountable" is a useful one right now.

Obama is giving candidates a chance to not have to run as a reliable presidential supporter. He knows that he is not liked by many people and he doesn't want candidates to be attached to him if it is not to their advantage.

[Doctor_J]

170. I think he should adopt far right wing positions on EVERY ISSUE to help us hold the

Senate.



Possibly the least effective democratic president ever.

[Ash_F]

199. That'll get them out to the polls! /nt

[woo me with science]

206. Lies upon lies upon lies.

And the con job continues...

[PoutrageFatigue]

209. More of that ninth-level ninja mind chess no doubt....

... or he caved.... again....