Turkey Backs Out Of US-Led War On ISIS: Germany Says No To Air Campaign

[big_dog]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by greatauntoftriplets (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Debkafiles Weekly Intel Sept 11, 2014, 5:26pm IDT

The Turkish government inflicted a stunning blow to President Barack Obama’s strategy for a broad US-led coalition for tackling and defeating the Islamic State, Thursday, Sept. 11 - just hours after the plan was unveiled in Washington. One of the 11 Sunni Muslim nations invited to Jeddah by US Secretary John Kerry Thursday to join the coalition’s establishment, Turkey announced instead that it wants no part in the US strategy for destroying ISIS. In his speech Wednesday night, President Obama specifically named Turkey as one of the “friends and allies” who would contribute troops to the mission.

However, an official in Ankara, who chose to remain anonymous, stated later: “Turkey will refuse to allow a US-led coalition to attack jhadists in neighboring Iraq and Syria from its air bases, nor will it take part in combat operations against militants.” The statement continued: “Turkey will not be involved in any armed operation but will concentrate entirely on humanitarian operations.”
Military and intelligence sources report that Turkey has knocked out one of the main props from under the Obama plan, which was its reliance on regional forces for combating the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, while the United States provided air strikes and cover.
This act provoked a long crisis in relations between Washington and Ankara. US sources report that, straight after the Jeddah meeting, Secretary Kerry will travel to Ankara on Friday, Sept. 12, to confront Turkish leaders directly. Meanwhile, Germany and Britain have said they would not take part in the US air campaign in Iraq and Syria.



Read more: http://www.debka.com/article/24262/Grave-setbacks-for-Obama’s-strategy-Turkey-backs-out-of-US-led-war-on-IS-Germany-UK-say-no-to-air-campaign

[CentralMass]

1. I'm starting to get the feeling that they don't like us.

[7962]

27. They dont like the Kurds, who are leading the fight on the ground against ISIS

They're very afraid that the Kurds will end up with their own region, and part of it is in Turkey

[Hulk]

58. Exactly...

That was my first reaction when I heard that Turkey would get involved.....helping the Kurds???? Get serious. They've had an ongoing struggle with the Kurds and the resistance in Turkey for decades.

[amandabeech]

34. Turkey had a consular office in Mosul, and did not evacuate its personnel before ISIS

took over.

ISIS then took hostage 48 Turkish citizens from that office, including wives and some children. I believe that the hostages have been threatened with death.

If my memory is correct, then perhaps Turkey will become more active if its citizens can be wrested from ISIS hands.

It is true that Erdogan has not been a friend of the US.

[PatrynXX]

35. eh Middle East one never wanted to muck with

has nothing to do with whether Turkey likes us or not. Very complicated. As in Sunni's vs Shiites vs some are nice some are not and then Kurds ... ie imagine the USA having every religious fanatic disagreeing with each other using weapons. and you would get something like the Middle east. as in Babtist vs Southern Babtist vs American babtist vs Lutheran, Wisconsin and Missouri and CLC( basically catholic as far as I'm concerned) out of all the synod's I've been in (3) CLC was the most fanatical , most Catholic. Missouri technically is the most liberal but not under the Pastor I was under. I know the ELS but was never a member. But imagine just even those having a war with each other. confused yet? This is what Bush got us into by allowing Usama Bin Ladin to direct us in there. In the end UBL is still winning and what Saddam said just before the floor left him. That this action would come back to haunt us is really coming true. Al Qaeda and Saddam hated the fuck out of each other. And we donated the entire country to both Al Qaeda and the Taliban and now Isis. Thanks Bush and Dick

[CentralMass]

37. I am actually aware of some of history and details of the region.

However I'm glad my comment, a failed attempt to add some levity, prompted some substantive replies.

[KamaAina]

2. Freedom shepherds, freedom muffins, and of course, Thanksgiving freedom!

[n2doc]

13. Freedom Chocolate Cake, Freedom Coffee

[Doctor_J]

26. You forgot a big one!

Freedom Taffy

[PatrynXX]

36. well

thats rather phallic.

[saidsimplesimon]

3. big-dog, are you Bill Clinton? (big grin here)

My, my the coalition of the willing devolves before our very eyes.

[Baclava]

4. Debka? 'Anonymous' source?

surely we can do better than that

[big_dog]

7. agence france press has it (via Lebanon Daily Star)

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Sep-11/270333-turkey-refuses-us-permission-for-combat-missions-against-isis-official.ashx

[Lithos]

21. Lebanon Daily Star is not very reliable as well

Neither is the only other source currently reporting this - Breitbart.

[MADem]

16. Those jihadists are holding 49 Turks hostage--they'll start chopping off Sunni heads when they

run out of American and European ones.

Turkey will be circumspect no matter what they do, but they'll help, quietly. Also, they were going to buy a PATRIOT-style missile system from China but apparently that's all wobbly now, so they might be looking for the US to supply such a thing.

DEBKA is a shit source, I really think it belongs in the dustbin. They take a half truth and tell big lies, and they have no grasp of nuance even when they are reporting a "factoid."

[amandabeech]

30. Debka may not be a publication suitable for LBN.

During Iraq War II it published an amazing amount of disinformation.

It is rumored to be a disinformation operation.

I'll be taking this with a grain of salt. If the same stories come out in Al Jazeera, fine.

[LynnTTT]

5. Several reasons

First, ISIS is holding 47 Turkish diplomats and their families in Mosul.
Secondly, the Turkish government is turning more and more fundamental every year.
Thirdly, the public in the UK and Germany and the rest of the world haven't yet been scared shtl..s by the media the way we have. The ability of ISIS to post a Youtube video threatening us is not the same as the ability to do so.
Yes, ISIS killed a journalist. A US citizen. But we cannot go to war over every incident involving a US citizen abroad.

[Lrobby99]

42. Good points

thanks

[Feral Child]

6. Seems like nobody wants WWIII but us. n/t

[ballyhoo]

8. So where will the helpers on the ground come from...

France...maybe Estonia?

[Kaleva]

9. Suspect article

An excerpt from the article in the OP:

"Meanwhile, Germany and Britain have said they would not take part in the US air campaign in Iraq and Syria."

But Britain hasn't ruled out taking part in air strikes in Syria.

"- British Prime Minister David Cameron is not ruling out military action against Islamic State militants in Syria, a spokesman said on Thursday, after Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said Britain would not join any US air strikes in Syria.

"The prime minister has not ruled anything out," the spokesman said, adding that Hammond's comments were in reference to a parliamentary vote last year on military action in Syria which the government lost. "

http://news.yahoo.com/britain-wont-join-air-strikes-syria-foreign-secretary-134754332.html

[big_dog]

10. Britain: Won't Take Part in Airstrikes on Syria--3 hours ago

Britain won't participate in any airstrikes on Syria but otherwise is ruling nothing out as it considers how to support President Barack Obama's plan to root out the Islamic State group, the British foreign secretary said Thursday.

Obama on Wednesday authorized U.S. airstrikes inside Syria for the first time, along with expanded strikes in Iraq as part of "a steady, relentless effort" to root out the extremists.

"Britain will not be taking part in any airstrikes in Syria," Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said in Berlin. He said London won't be "revisiting" the issue after Parliament decided last year against participating in airstrikes.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/germany-ministers-meet-strategy-25425352

[Kaleva]

12. The article i linked to was posted 36 minutes ago.

[MADem]

25. Can't believe this is allowed to stand in LBN. It's a shit source, and it's inaccurate. NT

[Kaleva]

59. A lot of unnamed sources in the article.

[Martin Eden]

11. Didn't the president check with them first?

Huge blunder if he announced they were in the coaltion without consulting them first.

[Lithos]

15. Something other than Debka reporting this?

Debka is incorrect far more times than not in these matters.

L-

[KoKo]

47. Turkish Paper has this article...I can't vouch for their accuracy but it is another source...

Turkey is not eager to allow a US-led coalition to use its Incirlik Air Base to launch attacks on militants of the Islamic State (IS) Sunni extremist group in neighbouring Syria and Iraq
media reported Thursday.
Ankara, September 11

http://www.siasat.com/english/news/turkey-reluctant-allow-us-use-its-airbase-against

Ankara will not allow its air bases for operational use other than logistics, Xinhua reported citing Turkish daily Radikal.

The reported reluctance came one day after US President Barack Obama's announcement of airstrikes against IS positions in Syria.

As part of the struggle against the IS, the Incirlik Air Base and Turkish air space have been already used for the transfer of non-lethal material to Iraqi Army and Kurdistan Regional Government forces, Radikal quoted Turkish sources saying on condition of anonymity.

US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel visited Ankara Monday and discussed the issue with Turkish officials.

The Incirlik Air Base, in Turkey's southern Adana province, maintains cooperation with NATO. It is listed by the US Air Force as being among its top "Main Operating Bases".

After Obama publicly named Turkey as part of the coalition against the IS, Turkey has opened up the base, not for operational use, but logistics only, Turkey's Hurriyet Daily News reported Tuesday.

The US has not been using Incirlik Air Base for its military attacks against IS targets, John L. Espinoza, the US consul general to Adana in southern Turkey, told reporters Thursday, private Dogan news agency reported.

In a related development, US Secretary of State John Kerry is expected to visit Turkey Friday as part of his efforts to gather military, political and financial support in fighting the IS group, according to media reports.

[cascadiance]

54. Incirlik Air base used to be a NATO American air base back in the 70's when I lived in Ankara...

So, when the problems with the consulate personnel being held hostage by ISIS gets resolved, I suspect NATO will be using that as a base of operations a lot more in the months to come. For now, I think there's not a real public position of it being anything supporting attacks on ISIS.

[lark]

17. Turkey is smarter than the US.

Tjey know nothing good will come from this and refuse to be part of the debacle. Guess their country is not run by the MIC as our is. It's such BS that ISIS is a danger to us. If beheadings are so bad, why didn't we invade Pakistan? If it's about protecting those other countries, why aren't their soliders and planes involved? Damn, I'm so sick of these pitiful excuses for war that do nothing except beget more wars, death and economic destruction for both Iraq and US. Can't build roads or bridges here, must kill Arabs! How sickening.

[7962]

29. They're not smarter, they just dont like the Kurds

[lark]

32. I don't think we like any of them.

We - MIC and their minions the US government - just see profit opportunities and who cares how many die. It won't the be people profitting from this or any of their kin that are put in harms way.

[geek tragedy]

40. No, reason is Turkey is kinda BFF with the ISIS crowd, given their common enemies of the Kurds and

Assad.

And the fact that Edrogan is an islamist thug himself.

[KurtNYC]

18. Coalition of the unconsulted. It was Turkey that messed up the cover story last year

with their revelations that the rebels, not Assad, were the ones who wanted materials for Sarin.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-syrian-rebels-sarin-gas-20130913-story.html

[Auggie]

19. They know it's bullshit

[L0oniX]

20. I have a new respect for Turkeys.

[paleotn]

22. If true, it's not terribly surprising....

Ankara has more to lose than gain by being a part of this coalition. The risk of inciting local Sunni sympathy is probably small, but if Obama's strategy works, the real winners on the ground will be the Peshmerga filling the resulting vacuum, while Baghdad remains weak and dithering. Strengthening the Kurds in Syria and Iraq might just give the Turkish Kurds wild ideas of a greater Kurdistan that includes a significant chunk of Turkey. That's something the Turks will not tolerate.

[NorthCarolina]

23. Perhaps they know something we don't.

[Doctor_J]

24. They just don't understand chess

[TwilightGardener]

28. Some of this is not factual. Britain did not refuse to take part in the Iraq campaign.

They won't go into Syria. As for Turkey, they do have a number of hostages being held by ISIS, so any support they give will be low-key or covert. They're afraid of hostage beheadings and reprisals in Turkey. Debka is a very questionable source.

[TheNutcracker]

31. Not much of a coalition left....

[C Moon]

33. Cheney's been on the phone.

[bemildred]

38. Arab States Sign On to Fight ISIS; European Allies Not So Sure

Ten Arab states have pledged to join the U.S. in its campaign to "degrade and ultimately destroy" the Islamic State in Iraq in Syria, while some American allies in Europe are less eager to sign up to fight.

The agreement came out of talks between Secretary of State John Kerry and regional leaders in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. In addition to Saudi Arabia, the coalition includes Bahrain, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates.

Notably missing from this list is Turkey. Although the Obama administration has called the country "absolutely indispensable" in the campaign against ISIS, Turkey has so far been reluctant to join the fight outright. Turkish leaders are wary of the fate of Turkish diplomats and nationals being held hostage by the group, and concerned with the international effort to arm Kurdish fighters, some of whom have been agitating for independence from Turkey for decades. Turkey was present at the meeting of regional leaders in Jeddah.

Meanwhile, the foreign ministers of Britain and Germany, two of the U.S.'s staunchest allies in Europe, announced on Thursday that the countries will not participate in the U.S. campaign in Syria. "Let me be clear: Britain will not be taking part in any air strikes in Syria," said U.K. Foreign Minister Philip Hammond. "We have already had that discussion in our parliament last year and we won't be revisiting that position."

http://www.nationaljournal.com/defense/arab-states-sign-on-to-fight-isis-european-allies-not-so-sure-20140911

[ballyhoo]

41. And these Arab States are always so forthcoming

and honest... This is a disaster in the making.

[AwareOne]

39. Good, the coalition is already crumbling

I just wrote the White House and told the pres I don't fear ISIS, I fear having to eat dog food in my retirement because my country is bankrupt.

[Bragi]

48. Perhaps you'd like this suggestion

I think the money to pay for the new war ought to come out of the military funds normally given to Israel.

Everyone in the Middle East and most people elsewhere in the world would cheer on this move, as it would signal that this isn't business as usual.

Won't happen, of course, because this is actually business as usual.

[karynnj]

43. Meanwhile Turkey's media has a story that they found and sent back

to their countries 830 European jihadists over the last 2 years. I don't know enough about Turkey to know if the media is free or represents the government. Especially if the latter is true, they are pushing back the charge that many foreign jihadists entered Iraq and Syria over their porous border. Could they be signalling that their role could be closing the border in a serious way?

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-sends-back-830-european-jihadists-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=71565&NewsCatID=510

I wonder if they are taking this position to protect their 49 diplomats, who are hostages. (All of us old enough might remember Ted Koppell's daily nightly show on the US diplomatic hostages in Tehran. I would imagine that their existence did tie Carter's hands. Not to mention, even 1979/1980 Tehran is NOT the same as ISIS.)

Here is an interesting article on their dilemma here - http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ankara-faces-difficult-choices-on-isil.aspx?PageID=238&NID=71555&NewsCatID=416 The conclusion of the article is:

It is clear, however, that opting to go in one of these directions will have severe consequences for Turkey, loosing credibility in the West, as well as its influence in the region, especially if the U.S. convinces Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and even Qatar to fight actively against ISIL.

If the fight against ISIL turns out to be successful without Turkey’s active support this will also be used by the opposition at home against President Erdoğan and Prime Minister Davutoğlu.

There are many “ifs” involved in all this, but none of the options appear to be that great for Erdoğan and Davutoğlu, who have said many lofty things in the past about Turkey’s role and influence in the Middle East, but who now face difficult choices.

As they say, talk is cheap and it is actions that will now show what kind of real regional leadership potential they have, if indeed, they have any.

The rest of the article is well worth reading as there are many real issues here -- some alluded to in other posts here.

[geek tragedy]

49. It may have just dawned on the Turks that if they ISIL gets kicked out of Syria and Iraq, next stop

is Istanbul.

[karynnj]

53. You could be right - and it's a scary thought given where Turkey is

The doorway to Europe and connecting to Iran. You would think ISIS would also want to move toward Saudi Arabia getting Mecca etc.

(I added a link from the same source that spoke of the conflicting problems that Turkey faces on this to the earlier post.)

[geek tragedy]

56. blowback nt

[Bragi]

50. Hurriyet is an opposition newspaper

It's basically mainstream secularist, unlike the Erdogen government, which is Islamist, and gradually taking Turkey back to the old Ottoman ways before Ataturk.

It's truly ridiculous, and maybe dangerous, that Turkey is in NATO. On the other hand, hard to single them out, since no-one in NATO seems to be actively joining the new Iraq.

[karynnj]

55. Thanks - as I said I knew nothing of the source

I looked at some of the other articles and found them thoughtful and well written. From your description, it is too bad the opposition is not in power for reasons having nothing to do with this effort.

[Maven]

44. Don't they know war is always good when Obama's at the helm?

[Marrah_G]

46. It's going to end up being a coalition of us and one crop dusting plane from some obscure island

Deja vu!

[Bragi]

52. Hey, that's the Canadian air force you're talking about

(I'm Canadian and get to say that.)

[Jack Rabbit]

51. "When the fuse runs down and the bomb explodes, that's a noise . . .

. . . When the fuse runs down and the bomb doesn't explode, that's suspense"

-- Alfred Hitchcock

And when the fuse runs down and the bomb just pops, what's that?

[Bonhomme Richard]

57. Isn't ISIS still holding 49 Turkish consulate people hostage?

They were taken in Mosul.
That could be why Turkey is not getting involved.

[JCMach1]

60. Erdogan had a hand in creating ISIS...

apparently, he likes his work...

[greatauntoftriplets]

61. We're locking this because it doesn't conform with the LBN SOP.

From the LBN SOP:

Statement of Purpose

Post the latest news from reputable mainstream news websites and blogs. Important news of national interest only. No analysis or opinion pieces. No duplicates. News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours. Use the published title of the story as the title of the discussion thread.