Ukraine's Yatsenyuk Says His Party to Compete With President's One at Parliamentary Vote
Source: RIA NOVOSTI
KIEV, September 13 (RIA Novosti) - The Popular Front party, headed by Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, will take part in early parliamentary election in October separately from Petro Poroshenko Bloc, named after the Ukrainian president, Yatsenyuk said Saturday at Yalta European Strategy (YES) forum, held in Kiev.
"We were supposed to go to the [Parliamentary] election together with [Petro] Poroshenko's party, but Poroshenko's party is not satisfied with this; we will go in different camps," Ukrainian prime minister said.
"If the government and the president do not live up to the Ukrainians' expectations, there will be a new government, a new president," Yatsenyuk underscored, adding that there are certain obstacles for the two political parties to unite.
Earlier this week, Ukrainian media reported that Prime Minister Yatsenyuk would top the party list of the Petro Poroshenko Bloc.
Read more: http://en.ria.ru/politics/20140913/192905569/Ukraines-Yatsenyuk-Says-His-Party-to-Compete-With-Presidents-One.html
Ukrainian source: http://www.unian.ua/politics/984408-yatsenyuk-pide-na-vibori-okremo-vid-bloku-poroshenka.html
Other founding members of this new "People's Front" include commanders of the right-wing extremist Dnepr and Azov Batallions, Yuri Birch and Andrew Bielecki, as well as right-wing activist Dmitri Tymchuk and veteran of the violent Maidan uprising Tetiana Chornovol.
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another_liberal
(8,821 posts)He and his ultra-nationalist/fascist allies' participation in the election is bound to push Poroshenko further to the far right of the political spectrum (yes, it is still possible for him to move further in that direction).
Like they say, "Your tax dollars at work."
RiverNoord
(1,150 posts)regarding the composition of the Ukraine gov't and some of its people is this:
Russia has become ultra-nationalist in just a few years, with the alignment of the very long-term Putin machine, the Russian Orthodox church, oligarchs and highly organized pro-Putin (United Russia) youth groups, some elements of which engage in violence against political foes of Putin.
The nation has profoundly demonized homosexuality through severe laws that prohibit anything that even hints of support for gays (to 'protect the children from homosexual propaganda') and gays are being routinely brutalized, sometimes with video that clearly identifies the attackers. No prosecutions are brought for these brutal assaults.
A group of women were sent to prison for 2 years (most of which they served) for "premeditated hooliganism performed by an organized group of people motivated by religious hatred or hostility." They were a musical group that wrote and sang anti-Putin music and condemned the fusion of the Orthodox Church and the state, and they sang one rather loudly at a church (something that in a democratic nation might get them a misdemeanor disturbing the peace citation).
Putin later pushed through and signed a law providing prison time and fines for 'insulting people's religious feelings,' and you'd better believe that that doesn't include Muslims or Jews.
Finally, Russia formally annexed Crimea, which it had previously committed to respecting fully as part of Ukraine (1994, as part of a deal for Ukraine to relinquish all of its nuclear weapons). Annexation of neighbor's lands has an ugly modern history, and, in general, is ulltra-nationalism at it worst.
So - why all the focus on the relatively much more benign ultra-nationalist groups in Ukraine, when ultra-nationalism and many key aspects of fascism are both formally and informally very much securely in place in Russia? It's not a self-serving, rhetorical question - I'd really like to know.
Igel
(35,282 posts)It fits their narrative. US evil, everybody else good.
Russia provides the same narrative. Even the nice "heil Hitler" salute. Although who he'd be "heiling" is a mystery. It was a salute, but he'd be saluting photographers that he'd already have saluted. Or a crowd, assuming that would would amass in front of him and be walking backwards.
Novosti, the "information service" that really just serves the Kremlin, the basis of RT.
Oddly enough, for all the complaining about how horrible the Ukr media is--it's not, not really--RIA Novosti has a Ukrainian service that is available to all Ukrainians, not blocked, and is really just RIA Novosti's Ukrainian feed. It's less polemical than Russian 24 or Channel 1, but not by much. As long as it's not openly calling for overthrowing the Ukrainian government, it's allowed. (Which is far more freedom than the apparently freedom-loving Russian government allows. Or has allowed for at least a decade.)
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, are publically proclaimed fascists. That is fact, and can be found in the public record. It has nothing in the least to do with anyone's propaganda.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)there are more than that in you wonderful Russia
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I am primarily concerned that we in the United States now own the blame for a resurgence of ultra-nationalist fascism in Ukraine. We have literally cultivated that movement's members as reliably violent, even murderous pawns in our ceaseless efforts to expand the American political and economic empire. Driven by greed and lust for power our economic, military and political leaders (with a little help from some of our allies) have practically ruined the nation known as Ukraine.
In their hurry to finish the job of stealing a sovereign country from its democratically elected government, our leaders have actually condoned, even encouraged, the formation of heavily armed, openly fascist fighting units within the Ukrainian army. That alone is a serious crime against all of mankind.
My purpose is to help ensure that kind of odious interference in the internal affairs of other nations is not done any more by the Untied States, and, hopefully, that those responsible for us doing such things now are punished.
RiverNoord
(1,150 posts)However, when I distill your description, as I understand it, to its basic elements, it goes like this:
You are very willing to criticize the activities of people in other nations, if their activities are significantly influenced by United States covert/overt pressures, exceeding what you consider to be appropriate diplomacy.
However, in the case of problematic circumstances such as war, in which you perceive the United States as having played an unproductive or destructive role, you don't devote much consideration to the unproductive or destructive roles of parties with significantly opposing interests, which may have had at least as much, if not substantially more so, effect on the development of dangerous circumstances.
I understand and share your concerns with respect to the first element, but I expect non-Americans to act just as badly as Americans when it comes to manipulating 'spheres of interest,' developing 'friendly governments,' and, in general, applying pressure through foreign policy, covert activities, military pressure, etc., as we do. To sideline this aspect of reality, to me, is to foster ignorance of the many ugly aspects of the world we live in, and very likely reduce the capacity of parties opposed to such entanglements to achieve genuine positive change.
Please don't take my response as insulting - it isn't and I definitely value your perspectives. I've just had an interest for some time now i trying to understand, well, where you're coming from. Thanks 
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)year. Poroshenko will just be a bad memory then. Russia is getting more like America in the 1950-1960 period when it was a great place to be. And America is turning into Russia under the SU. Funny, I never thought those prognostications made long ago would come true. But they are. I wonder if there will be a vast migration to Russia some day.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)Actually, Putin wanted none of Ukraine as long as it stayed neutral and didn't join EU and NATO. That was the original deal. Unfortunately, WE have a big hardon to bring former Soviet republics into NATO - an organization which serves no purpose now but puts food on the table for a lot of generals etc.
Now, the genie is out of the bottle and Putin will settle for the Eastern (productive) half, leaving the Western (big diability) part to the EU to compete with Greece and Iceland for aid.
The Western Ukraine will be a land-locked country since Russia will have all the coastline.
Victoria Nuland's cookies (aka coup-kies) were very very expensive to a lot of people.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)said I think some deal will be reached that Putin will be forced to take Western Ukraine. Yeah, Nuland will be remembered as a first class villain that began the restoration of the SU.
pampango
(24,692 posts)The US is not allowed to 'want' any part of Canada or Mexico, regardless of how much stronger our military is than theirs and how much we may dislike some of the policies. That's not how it works.
The USSR 'settled' for the Eastern half of Poland 75 years ago. I guess you 'settle' for what you can get and then see what happens.
And if he 'settles' for Eastern Ukraine, it will because his military is stronger than Ukraine's. That is certainly a very 'liberal' way to decide these things.
In that scenario, it is likely that the rest will join the EU and NATO. (Recent polls show that Europeans don't look at Ukraine as a 'big liability' and want it to be allowed to join the EU.) Then Mr. Putin will have NATO right on Russia's border which he professes not to want. I guess some things are more important than the whole "NATO proximity" thing.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)and forced a change in leadership. And that's why he did it. Let the West do as it wants. Why isn't the matter of the broken treaty in international courts? Had Victoria Nuland stayed out of Ukraine, Crimea would still be a part of it, even if not for much longer.
pampango
(24,692 posts)Ukrainians protested a Yanukovich's campaign policy reversal. He campaigned on closer integration with Europe not with Russia then reversed himself. As president Yanukovich had every right to reverse his previous position. The Ukrainian people also had every right to protest such a campaign policy reversal, just as Americans do when their politicians reverse campaign promises.
After signing the agreement with the protesters he decided to leave (and go to Russia) rather than live up to its provisions. Yanukovich agreed to remain as president until elections were held in December. The next day he left the country. Within a month Crimea seceded from Ukraine (and joined Russia). No one 'forced a change in leadership'.
It should be, assuming it was ratified by both parties. All international agreements should be adhered to until they are withdrawn from.
An international court may also need to look into the matter of the Budapest Memorandum signed by the US, Russia and Ukraine which guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for giving up its nuclear weapons.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)and then read this by Ray McGovern. The US machine can do anything it wants in your book. Let me know when the broken treaty gets adjudication. It won't be because no court in the world will touch it after what Nuland did. And these courts are not composed of US puppets....yet, at least.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/06/28/who-violated-ukraines-sovereignty/
pampango
(24,692 posts)From your link:
I’m no lawyer, but I can read the words. And, taken literally, the answer seems to be Yes ...
..............
But there’s also the item in Paragraph Three in which Russia, the UK, and the U.S. also commit “to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty.”
Might the EU’s take-it-or-leave-it proposal last fall offering Ukraine “associate” status in return for draconian economic austerity imposed on the Ukrainian people come under the rubric of the “economic coercion” prohibited at Budapest? An arguable Yes, it seems to me.........
Mr. McGovern is not even saying definitely Yes, just arguably Yes. If I offer you a deal and you reject it, am I guilty of economic coercion? Or just guilty of offering you a deal you thought was not as good as another deal on offer?
I have never said that. The US should not back Poland annexing part of western Ukraine as a buffer against Russia; it should not back Ukraine sending troops into Russia to 'teach Putin a lesson'; we should not send US troops to fight in Ukraine.
I'll turn that statement around. Can the Russia 'machine' do anything it wants in Ukraine in your book?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)win territory. There are alternatives, though.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)and want to live in a perfect world.
In your eyes, US (CIA) interventions are all legitimate because they are for "freedom" of the people to do what they want. However, you do not know what the people of Ukraine really want. You go by the protests orchestrated by Victoria Nuland & Co to "think" that a majority of Ukrainians want to join the EU and NATO. If that was the case, there wouldn't have been a civil war. Obviously, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians want to live in the Russian sphere of influence and distrust the USA and they want autonomy.
You also believe every lie that comes out of Kiev hook, line and sinker because it fits your definition of a perfect world.
Some of us respectfully disagree because we are resigned to the fact that we don't live in a perfect world.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)not going to be allowed to join NATO
karynnj
(59,498 posts)from when his charges became a dominant issue until he was censored. This was NOT America's shining moment.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)in woods and fields where bees and animals still lived, attending schools where the teachers were not tyrants, going to Sunday school where God was still in vogue. Compared to what we have now--abject filth--I could put up with McCarthy. The way it is now McCarthy would be considered a light weight.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)Interesting that, like the right wing Republicans, you select the atypical 1950s as the perfect time.
The food I eat in Vermont NOW is more healthy than the food I grew up eating in the Chicago area. Not to mention, GMO food will be labeled here.
I am offended that you think today's teachers are tyrants - I was pretty impressed with most of the teachers my daughters had - though there were some clunkers. Tyrants -- absolutely not. In fact, the teachers back in the 1950s were more likely to be authoritarian than today's teachers.
I would assume that ALL Sunday schools teach about God - that is sort of the purpose.
McCarthy was pretty bad all by himself and he succeeded for a while in having many powerful people follow him.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)my grouping. I'm not talking Vermont--one of the few sane places. Sorry to offend you, but I went to parent-teachers conferences for my daughter and caught them in many lies and inconsistencies, upon which they got real defensive, kind of like... The authoritarianism teachers displayed in years past was called leadership, and this type of leadership when all is said and done produced good future citizens---not those who would grow up and disrupt Olympics to express themselves. All Sunday schools do NOT teach about God with the same zeal, and I find your word "purpose" here a little unusual. McCarthy was a nothing to people who had better things to do and didn't listen to him.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)Incidentally, we raised our children in NJ. With three kids, we were exposed to many teachers. There were some that were not good, but the vast majority were caring, well qualified and motivated to help my daughters.
You seriously sound almost Republican with your comments on authoritarian teachers and religion taught with zeal. My comment simply countered your smirky comment on Sunday schools where God was still in Vogue. In fact, every Sunday school I know of - Christian or Jewish - teaches religious values, culture and religion. (I do not personally have any experience with anything but Christian and Jewish religious classes, but I assume the same is so for any other religion.)
PS I do not know a single child who grew up and disrupted the Olympics - for any reason. As to protests, maybe you should consider that the generation raised in your perfect decade grew up to protest frequently in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I guess all that good authoritarian teaching didn't make them lose the ability to think for themselves!
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the United States including the Dem Convention in 1968. I have been a Democrat for 47 years. Your complete paragraph 2 leading comment in total makes me think you are not a believer. God got me through Vietnam and a bunch of other bad stuff. I think this conversation has reached a natural end point. Have a nice remainder of day.
R3druM
(50 posts)Rampant McCarthyism, segregation, Jim Crow laws, murder of blacks and civil right workers in the South. Its becoming very clear who you TRULY are sir...very clear indeed.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)only the rich are educated now, a functioning and growing middle class, home ownership available for most, respect not disgust throughout the world, privacy law enforced not proactively reduced, better music, films...more religion and belief in a higher power....and the only thing you can come up with McCarthyism and civil rights... Yeah, it is becoming increasing apparent what you are, R3Drum...very clear indeed.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)civil rights marches?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)it is today. And the brutality then was confined to blacks. That didn't make it all right, but it made it less of a total hate by the cops of everyone poor like it is today.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)It will be highly unlikely for Kiev to again come under Moscow's influence any time soon. For it to happen within mere months our country would have to suffer a catastrophic decline in power for some reason: a complete collapse of the dollar or a civil insurrection of 1860s proportions maybe. Barring anything like that, we may acknowledge the Separatists, cut our losses and give up on the planned complete looting of Ukraine, but I do not think our various power elites will agree to let her return to Russia's orbit.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)year, another_liberal, including a cut or diminution of entitlements, more loss of individual freedoms, a decline in the value of the dollar, and a revolt not seen in ages. I don't think our power elites are what they used to be. I'm sure you saw the chart posted here the other day of the decline of the US as an economic power. Anyway, next year everything will change in the US, I think. The beginning of the pain is starting now with the increase in interest rates that became more pronounced last week with the decrease in bond values.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)In it he talks about how there are many tens of thousands of people in Detroit who now have no running water, because they have no money to pay their utility bills. He notes how after dark most of the street lights are no longer turned on, ". . . a major American city that goes dark at night! Is this some kind of a social experiment they're conducting, to see just how much the poor will take?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=214418
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)the noses of the Democrats and have turned people into bums and hobos. Well, after the bums and hobos stage is past, the mobs will start forming. The police with their drones will take them out at first, but once this starts happening and the beating down of the people is shown on tv, the abject fear people live in now will spring forth into shouts of anger and bravery. When one has nothing left to lose, they suddenly don't care anymore. That is where we are now. And Detroit is only one city. There are many others. The social experiment in cruelty that our illustrious government is trying is about to come unglued. And this why the police have been militarized and why Bush reversed Posse Comitatus. I could say more but there are too many here that just don't get it. I don't even like to walk my dogs in my neighborhood anymore, and my neighborhood was the 2nd or 3rd nicest in the city. Now, iron doors up and down the street. Oh, well, I'm sure you have your own stories to tell.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)"When one has nothing left to lose . . ."
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)it is always a privilege to post with you. If you run for office in California ever, I'll support you.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Thank you, ballyhoo.
