US man in North Korea given 6 years of hard labor

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) — North Korea's Supreme Court on Sunday sentenced a 24-year-old American man to six years of hard labor for entering the country illegally to commit espionage.

At a trial that lasted about 90 minutes, the court said Matthew Miller, of Bakersfield, California, tore up his tourist visa at Pyongyang's airport upon arrival on April 10 and admitted to having the "wild ambition" of experiencing prison life so that he could secretly investigate North Korea's human rights situation.

Miller, who looked thin and pale at the trial and was dressed completely in black, is one of three Americans being held in North Korea.

Showing no emotion throughout the proceedings, Miller waived the right to a lawyer and was handcuffed before being led from the courtroom after his sentencing. The court, comprising a chief judge flanked by two "people's assessors," ruled it would not hear any appeals to its decision.

FULL story at link.



Matthew Miller, a U.S. citizen, sits on the dock at the Supreme Court during his trial in Pyongyang, North Korea, Sunday, Sept. 14, 2014. North Korea's Supreme Court on Sunday sentenced Miller to six years of hard labor for entering the country illegally and trying to commit espionage. (AP Photo/Kim Kwang Hyon)


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140914/as--nkorea-detained_american-06a6426366.html

[Zorro]

1. Guess he got what he asked for

[madville]

2. I have found that the best way

To not get imprisoned in North Korea is to not travel to North Korea. I also plan on not getting kidnapped and beheaded in Syria or Iraq by not traveling to the Middle East, it's a strategy of mine, seems to work.

[Brigid]

22. Yep.

Works for me too.

[yuiyoshida]

3. One of them, I don't recall which...

Had gone to North Korea to slip an Illegal Bible into a public place, and was caught leaving one at a cafe in Pyongyang. They had said that these North Koreans needed to be Christians and by golly he was going to leave a Bible because it was his right to do so.

I guess he didn't have that right in North Korea.

[jwirr]

6. A state has a right to restrict religious actions within its bondaries if it chooses to do so. India

does not allow missionaries from other countries into their nation anymore so why should North Korea have to allow it?

Now our diplomats will begin talking to them about his release. If you want to go into North Korea or any other nation that you know will use any means to arrest you then you should go at your own risk.

[yuiyoshida]

7. Exactly

this.

[chrisa]

8. Morally it does not. Religious persecution is oppression.

Imagine US police breaking the doors down of churches and arresting everybody in there, or arresting people for having a Quran on them. Very authoritarian.

[jwirr]

10. Well what you are missing is that this did not happen in the USA where we do have the right to

freedom of religion - which ever religion we chose. North Korea and India have their own laws. Because we have freedom of religion in our own nation does not give us the right to override their laws. And yes they are authoritarian.

India is not quite as bad as North Korea as they do allow churches led by native peoples to exist. They had so much trouble with outsiders that they put a stop to it back in the 60s. Now if you want a leader for your church in India they have to be native born leaders. I assume that many go out of the country for training as my church has many in our colleges.

Oppression? If this young man went into North Korea knowing that he could be arrested because he is breaking their laws I do not call that oppression. Oppression is when you are doing nothing illegal but still get punished for your faith.

[Township75]

11. Will you apply that logic to how women are treated in some countries?

We don't have the right to override laws that prevent women from driving nor divorcing their husbands?

These guys are idiots for getting themselves into this mess but just because a different country won't tolerate a bible doesn't mean it's ok to but people into slave labor camps for it.

[WinkyDink]

18. Well, no, we DON'T have the right to override your specific examples. I mean, what? We should invade

Saudi Arabia so their women could drive?!

It's not "ok" to do many things governments do. That includes illegally invading sovereign nations and killing their citizens based on lies about WMD's.

Nose in our own trough, you know?

[jwirr]

23. Women are treated badly in a lot of countries. We do little about it and I seriously doubt it would

work to send one idiot in to protest it. The only way I have seen the attitudes towards women change is through education and their own actions. We do what we can to help but we do not send people in to override their laws. If you know where we are doing this I would be interested in knowing where?

In the case of religion we do just that. Not we the government but we the churches. Apparently you think we have the right to do that and there will be no consequences. Unfortunately those who are dealing with North Korea are dealing with a selfish dictator who does not care about justice only about getting his own way. Our government warns travelers that it is unsafe. And our government will no doubt see what they can do to get the fool out.

[chrisa]

24. I said "morally" not "legally."

Oppression is when you are doing nothing illegal but still get punished for your faith.

Actually, laws themselves can be a means of oppression. By that logic, carrying out genocide against an entire faith would not be oppression because the country where it is happening passed a law allowing the genocide to happen. Oppression by governments by very definition is legal.

[Lars39]

37. Southern Baptists have missionaries in India.

They do help start churches.

[jwirr]

51. They can send healthcare workers. And that is the means that most churches are now.

[Lars39]

53. Nope, these are flat out missionaries.

Not healthcare workers at all. Everything's hush hush since their presence there is illegal.

[jwirr]

54. Like the guy in North Korea.

[Lars39]

55. Yes.

Except there is already a network in place developing churches in India. Just ran across an old article talking about a church in Memphis that spends more than 5 million on missions to foreign countries, India included. Just mind boggling. Hard to read, but here it is. The missionaries I know did not come from that church...

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/local-news/india-bellevue-baptist-goes-on-global-mission-h

[jwirr]

56. That is true. The old missions made sure that they kept their links going. That is probably why

India does nothing when these outsiders come. My church obeys the laws and sends the medical help they need. That does not mean that they do not talk about their faith. They just provide a needed service while doing it.

[JI7]

41. india is full of missionaries, Mother Teresa being one of the most well known examples

if anything they have too many of them

[jwirr]

52. Their group was still there and they are there as healthcare workers.

[JI7]

58. no. most of them are uneducated

[WinkyDink]

16. North Korea is authoritarian? Say it isn't so!

[jwirr]

57. I am not arguing that they have no moral right. He is not being tried and imprisoned because of a

moral law. He was breaking a government law which is valid in that country. That is what he is being tried for. A moral right includes consequences. That was the whole point of Thoreau's writings.

[Hoppy]

27. Yeah, well wait'ill my Jeezuz gets hold of them heathen bastids. They gonna be sorry.

The Koreans, too.

[jmowreader]

33. Of the three, this is the only one who DIDN'T get picked up for Bible-related charges

The first person to discuss is Matthew Miller, the one who was just given six years to explore human rights abuses in North Korean prisons. I feel confident the guards in whatever labor camp they put him in will joyfully give him LOTS to explore.

The second is Kenneth Bae, a Christian missionary given 15 years for attempting "a Christian plot to overthrow the regime."

The third is Matthew Miller, who left a Bible in a hotel room. This one is especially sad: He says he has a wife and three elementary-school-age kids who depend on him for support, so naturally the first thing he had to do was go straight to a country that throws people in jail for proselytizing and start doing it.

If Jesus was going to save North Korea, one would think he'd have done it by now.

[yuiyoshida]

35. You said the first and the third

are Matthew Miller... The second is Kenneth Bae...that's two people. There is a third?

[jmowreader]

36. Sorry...Jeffrey Fowle is the third

He's the one who left the Bible in his hotel room.

[toby jo]

4. Wonder if he'll survive.

[EEO]

5. The headline should be: Ill-Advised Trip to North Korea Ends as Expected

[Drunken Irishman]

9. Hard to find sympathy for him since it's apparently what he wanted.

[oberliner]

12. Why are you saying this is what he wanted?

That doesn't make sense.

[WinkyDink]

15. Because it's in the OP's post?

[oberliner]

21. Only if you believe the North Korean court spokesperson

Which I would think no one would.

[WinkyDink]

47. "The Associated Press was allowed to attend the trial." He waived his right to a lawyer.

[Orsino]

50. We probably shouldn't trust the NK gov to read a weather report...

...much less their excuses for imprisonment, or a prisoner's waiving a right to representation.

A government that deliberately confuses journalism or mental illness with espionage is just flexing muscles.

[Historic NY]

17. Neither did he....with his wild ambition.

At a trial that lasted about 90 minutes, the court said Matthew Miller, of Bakersfield, California, tore up his tourist visa at Pyongyang's airport upon arrival on April 10 and admitted to having the "wild ambition" of experiencing prison life so that he could secretly investigate North Korea's human rights situation.

[oberliner]

20. "The court said..."

Do we actually buy that?

[Historic NY]

28. The Associated Press was allowed to attend the trial.

[oberliner]

31. True

Good point. But still - it seems possible that his behavior/comments may have been coerced.

Who knows?

Clearly, I am not as up on this story as I should be.

I don't fully have a handle on what this guy is all about.

[JimDandy]

29. It is rather odd that he waived his right to an attorney.

That behavior is not what I'd expect of someone tryingto avoid going to prison.

[VScott]

30. You're going to get a fair trial, followed by a proper hanging.

He knew he was fucked anyways (whether he wanted it or not).

I suspect the only reason he was even allowed a choice was because hes a
Westerner, and AP was there.

Hell, they probably would have put the defense attorney on trial if he was suspected of trying
to hard to get his client off the hook.

[WinkyDink]

48. Was he forced to go to NK? Do you really think the NKoreans fabricated this convoluted story?

[karynnj]

19. One other account was that his goal was actually to be able to

write of NK human rights abuses. What is clear is that he really made a serious error in judgment in doing this and he will be paying for that. In addition, he certainly has a family that is being put through hell dealing with this and likely frustrated that they can not protect this young man from what he brought about.

Had he been a soldier, a reporter, an aid worker who was arrested while doing something that - by most - could be seen as needed, if not heroic, there would be a lot more sympathy. Even the other two, have the misguided sympathy of evangelicals. Looking at the article, the demeanor of the boy (young man), what I see is a kid, who may not have clearly thought out this action and - maybe for the first time in his life - is in trouble. Because he is a 24 year old, who had the money to book a trip to NK as a tourist, he likely has had a pretty privileged background. Now, he is causing another headache for the State Department, which has many other problems to deal with.

To me, it is amazing that anyone would go to a country, which we do not have direct relations with because we have designated them as not deserving them, and INTENTIONALLY create a conflict there. (I don't even get why anyone would go there as a tourist as there are many many other countries to visit!)

This case is different than the other two - which are both Christian missionaries, who are intentionally breaking the law because they think their religions call to convert non believers means they should. Those cases, and one in Iran, where an Iranian born US citizen who was previously jailed (and freed) for Christian proselytizing returned to Iran and was convicted of breaking the same law again, are tougher. In both cases, you have evangelists in this country saying they did nothing wrong - rather they are doing God's work and in both cases, are complaining the State Department is not helping them.

This ignores that neither of these countries take proselytizing lightly and these people have proudly done just that. Additionally, the US has very little leverage with either country. (In the case of Iran, Kerry was asked in the House hearing on the interim agreement with Iran why the release of this man was not a precondition to that agreement. Kerry pointed out that it would be wrong to "give" Iran anything in that agreement in return - pointing out the House committee would not want him to do that.)

[davidpdx]

43. This!

Because he is a 24 year old, who had the money to book a trip to NK as a tourist, he likely has had a pretty privileged background. Now, he is causing another headache for the State Department, which has many other problems to deal with.

To me, it is amazing that anyone would go to a country, which we do not have direct relations with because we have designated them as not deserving them, and INTENTIONALLY create a conflict there. (I don't even get why anyone would go there as a tourist as there are many many other countries to visit!)

Spot on as far as those points! All of these individuals have thrown themselves to the wolves and expect the US Government to bail them out. They went knowing the risk and still did it!

On another note: As I have stated before I live in South Korea. Until several years ago there use to be day tours over to Kaesong (that is the industrial city just above the boarder). The falling out between the two Koreas led to the canceling of the tours. One of my good friends and former co-worker went on the tour and I had hoped to go as well. I think given what has happened in the last five years I've changed my mind and will wait for the regime to fall instead. Plus it was going to be $175...a little steep.

[rpannier]

44. The trip was worth it

Just for the eerie effect it was worth it
I went the year before it closed down
If they opened it again I would go

The only thing about the trip I didn't like was the South Korean border official confiscated one of my book of stamps I bought.
I was stupid though. The following day I was going to Japan for four days. The official asked me if I was staying in Korea.
I said I was.
If I had said I was leaving for Japan tomorrow, they would have given me the stamps at the airport and I could have mailed them back to Korea from Japan

Oh well. It was very educational

[davidpdx]

46. I had really hoped to go

My FIL was born in a village outside Pyongyang and fought on the side of South Korea. I spend a lot of time reading about and learning about North Korea as it is fascinating.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. He should have wished for a pony

or something like that.

He seems to be lucky when it comes to having a wish come true.

[WinkyDink]

14. That boy ain't right.

[Brigid]

25. Miller probably grew up on stories . . .

About Protestant heroes like William Tynale, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and of course the granddaddy of them all, Martin Luther. Apparently he failed to pay attention to what happened to most of them.

[Sunlei]

32. Harsh years for breaking their 'rules'.He lost his 20s, bet he goes home soon as he gets out.

Hope he survives.

[jmowreader]

34. Either that, or the guards will get bored with kicking the shit out of him and ask he be deported

[mackerel]

38. He was given 6 years but they may keep him longer if they

find he has committed some made up offense while in prison.

[Blue_Tires]

39. uh...Is that kid on drugs?

Assuming that the story is accurate?

[cali]

40. more likely he's mentally ill.

[JI7]

42. he seems like a fool who wanted to expose something but has no knowledge

of how to do it in a way that others have.

just because someone wants to do something doesn't mean they can do it.

especially if his only training was religious work .

he also seems like the type that will go back even if we do bring him back here.

[rpannier]

45. They'll find some reason to kick the guy out of the country within a year

Humanitarian visit from someone most likely

[iandhr]

49. people like this

should be required to reimburse the taxpayerson what it's going to cost to get them out of there choir