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NoGOPZone

(2,971 posts)
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:12 PM Sep 2014

Tony Stewart fatal dirt-track incident to be heard by grand jury

Source: Reuters

The case of a fatal dirt-track incident involving three-time NASCAR champion Tony Stewart in upstate New York last month will be referred to a grand jury, authorities said on Tuesday.

Stewart, one of the biggest names in auto racing, struck and killed 20-year-old Kevin Ward during a non-NASCAR sprint car race on Aug. 9 at Canandaigua Motorsports Park.

"I have made the determination that it would be appropriate to submit the evidence to a grand jury, for their determination as to what action should be taken in this matter," said Ontario County District Attorney Michael Tantillo.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/tony-stewart-fatal-dirt-track-accident-heard-grand-185202582--spt.html

48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Tony Stewart fatal dirt-track incident to be heard by grand jury (Original Post) NoGOPZone Sep 2014 OP
Impossible to convict him FLPanhandle Sep 2014 #1
Unless there's something damning in some radio communications. Mika Sep 2014 #2
Anyone who watches racing knows those type of things are said all the time and it doesn't mean diabeticman Sep 2014 #11
Also, the driver who got killed was dressed in black jmowreader Sep 2014 #6
Whether or not he accelerated. WinkyDink Sep 2014 #15
What about the Yellow Flag bahrbearian Sep 2014 #36
except for the fact the asshole goosed the gas to hit him with the ass end of his car snooper2 Sep 2014 #40
This IS B.S. there was no way Stewart could have stopped this. The rookie driver killed himself. diabeticman Sep 2014 #3
I wont argue over the ability to stop thats just basic physics but as Mika cstanleytech Sep 2014 #5
The "something else" is the DA not wanting former9thward Sep 2014 #10
Unless you are now clairvoyant its a bit premature to make that claim cstanleytech Sep 2014 #14
This is a discussion board. former9thward Sep 2014 #17
"I gave an educated opinion." Well you are half right. cstanleytech Sep 2014 #19
Oh really? former9thward Sep 2014 #44
Yes, really as all you gave was opinion at that time. cstanleytech Sep 2014 #46
So which half was I wrong on? former9thward Sep 2014 #47
The absurd one claiming cstanleytech Sep 2014 #48
Yellow Flag ? bahrbearian Sep 2014 #37
Good, this needs to be cleared up. Stewart gunning his engine and sliding his car A Simple Game Sep 2014 #4
I agree.... Sadly there's plenty of blame to go around groundloop Sep 2014 #12
There is a misconception about the "gunning" part. Lochloosa Sep 2014 #13
"In a race they are going sideways more than straight ." "Sideways," or at an angle? WinkyDink Sep 2014 #16
Sideways. Angle. I think you get my "drift". Lochloosa Sep 2014 #27
I'll wait for the trial video. WinkyDink Sep 2014 #39
I watched the videos many times, hard to miss it was a local story for me. A Simple Game Sep 2014 #18
That's the way I saw it too groundloop Sep 2014 #20
I don't think Stewart hit him intentionally but he did appear A Simple Game Sep 2014 #21
It will be interesting to hear what if any evidence the DA has thats for sure. nt cstanleytech Sep 2014 #22
I've watched the video many times, too, rocktivity Sep 2014 #29
Why gun before coasting to go slow? tabasco Sep 2014 #24
You have to keep pace with the other cars around you to maintain your position on the track. Lochloosa Sep 2014 #26
My husband races and says the exact same thing. FourScore Sep 2014 #25
I agree. You are not supposed to even get out of a wrecked car unless it's burning Lochloosa Sep 2014 #28
That is the first thing they tell drivers... IthinkThereforeIAM Sep 2014 #32
Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #7
Hmmm, that doesn't sound like a DU comment. BillZBubb Sep 2014 #8
Classy n/t tazkcmo Sep 2014 #9
Good. Hitting someone fatally while under a yellow caution flag is inexcusable. Coventina Sep 2014 #23
Ward Should Have Never Been Out Of His Car, Period. Corey_Baker08 Sep 2014 #30
A yellow flag on a race course means that hazardous conditions are present and you (the driver) are Coventina Sep 2014 #31
That is as slow as a sprint car can go under yellow... IthinkThereforeIAM Sep 2014 #33
If it were that open and shut, why is it going to a grand jury? Coventina Sep 2014 #34
I believe that is exactly why the DA is convening the grand jury... IthinkThereforeIAM Sep 2014 #35
Thank you very much for this long, informative post. Coventina Sep 2014 #41
I Certainly Don't Agree With Your View That Tony Stewart Intentionally Killed This Man... Corey_Baker08 Sep 2014 #42
So in your view, being in one's prime, earning millions of dollars, and having a beautiful family Coventina Sep 2014 #43
I'm not an expert.. sendero Sep 2014 #38
Tony Stewart not charged by grand jury in death of Kevin Ward Jr. former9thward Sep 2014 #45

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
1. Impossible to convict him
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:25 PM
Sep 2014

How can they prove Stewart even saw the guy? Poor lighting, fast speed, rounding a curve probably watching only his line through the course, and the other guy out of his vehicle.

No way they'd even get an involuntary homicide.

 

Mika

(17,751 posts)
2. Unless there's something damning in some radio communications.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:30 PM
Sep 2014

Not uncommon for the drivers to say "I'm gonna git him" type comments on their radios.


diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
11. Anyone who watches racing knows those type of things are said all the time and it doesn't mean
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 07:26 PM
Sep 2014

mean murder. This type of shit makes my wife hate this country.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
40. except for the fact the asshole goosed the gas to hit him with the ass end of his car
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 11:03 AM
Sep 2014

That little fact...

just a little one

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
3. This IS B.S. there was no way Stewart could have stopped this. The rookie driver killed himself.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:33 PM
Sep 2014

He should have stayed in the car. He was in a black firesuit on a night track during a race.


This D.A. is a dumb A$$


cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
5. I wont argue over the ability to stop thats just basic physics but as Mika
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:45 PM
Sep 2014

pointed out there could be something else causing the DA to bring this to a grand jury such as some recorded radio communication or something.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
14. Unless you are now clairvoyant its a bit premature to make that claim
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 07:51 PM
Sep 2014

seeing as it hasnt even gone before the grand jury.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
17. This is a discussion board.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:00 PM
Sep 2014

I gave an educated opinion. You may not like it but you don't get to shut down discussion.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
44. Oh really?
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 03:39 PM
Sep 2014
Tony Stewart not charged by grand jury in death of Kevin Ward Jr.

Tony Stewart will not be charged by an Ontario County (N.Y.) Grand Jury in the death of Kevin Ward Jr.
The grand jury announced Wednesday that there was no evidence of a criminal act. The case was passed on to the grand jury by Ontario County District Attorney Michael Tantillo last week. The Ontario County Sheriff's Department investigated the August 9 incident for approximately a month before the evidence had been presented to Tantillo.

By New York state law, any case that possibly involves felony charges must go to a grand jury for a possible indictment. Tuesday, the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported that the grand jury was hearing testimony in the case. The grand jury had three options: felony charges, misdemeanor charges or no charges. It chose the third option.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/tony-stewart-not-charged-by-grand-jury-in-death-of-kevin-ward-jr-190047656.html

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
48. The absurd one claiming
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 12:18 AM
Sep 2014

I was trying to and I quote "shut down discussion." on the thread.
I mean really I might not agree with you fully on a topic but you are free to still discuss it here.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
4. Good, this needs to be cleared up. Stewart gunning his engine and sliding his car
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:44 PM
Sep 2014

before hitting Ward was suspicious and deserves clarification.

groundloop

(11,488 posts)
12. I agree.... Sadly there's plenty of blame to go around
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 07:42 PM
Sep 2014

Obviously Ward could have avoided this situation by not running out on the track to cause a confrontation. But there's evidence to suggest that Tony could have avoided it as well. Hopefully the grand jury will give the evidence careful scrutiny.

Lochloosa

(16,019 posts)
13. There is a misconception about the "gunning" part.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 07:48 PM
Sep 2014

These cars don't have transmissions. The way you go slow is to gun it then coast. As far as going sideways, they are designed to go sideways. In a race they are going sideways more than straight .

I have raced them before.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
18. I watched the videos many times, hard to miss it was a local story for me.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:10 PM
Sep 2014

Stewart was going straight, gunned the engine, and went sideways when he neared Ward. If he stays going straight he misses him.

groundloop

(11,488 posts)
20. That's the way I saw it too
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:41 PM
Sep 2014

They were under caution, Tony could have simply drove to the bottom of the track to avoid any possible confrontation with Ward. My initial impression was that Tony was trying to send a message "don't fuck with me". Admittedly I wasn't there, I never heard any radio transmissions (if there were any), so that's purely speculation. Maybe the grand jury will shed some light on the truth and not just sweep everything under a rug.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
21. I don't think Stewart hit him intentionally but he did appear
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:50 PM
Sep 2014

to be trying to intimidate him. I wonder if there was any interaction between them before the race? Never did hear anything about that on the news or the net.

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
29. I've watched the video many times, too,
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 10:16 PM
Sep 2014

and I see Ward moving toward Stewart's car, and it veering sideways after (as the result of?) the initial impact. The acceleration sound came from the number 45 car that nearly hit Ward beforehand. Because Ward was a "moving target" of sorts, Stewart can make the case that there was no time to avoid him -- if he saw him at all.


rocktivity

Lochloosa

(16,019 posts)
26. You have to keep pace with the other cars around you to maintain your position on the track.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:47 PM
Sep 2014

Under yellow you are supposed to stay in position to avoid a bunch of cars moving up to get where they are supposd to be .

As far as coasting these cars slow down really fast on dirt. Without a transmission you have to gun and coast. Gun and coast. It's just the way it is.

Everyone assumes Tony saw him. I'm not so sure about that. The last thing you expect to see is someone standing in the middle of a race track

FourScore

(9,704 posts)
25. My husband races and says the exact same thing.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:18 PM
Sep 2014

He's never raced these machines before, but has driven one and says the people who race them are just nuts. The young man got out of his car; that was his fatal mistake.The mechanics of these cars will certainly be presented to the grand jury. I think it was a tragic, sad accident.

Lochloosa

(16,019 posts)
28. I agree. You are not supposed to even get out of a wrecked car unless it's burning
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:52 PM
Sep 2014

You wait for the safety crew.

IthinkThereforeIAM

(3,072 posts)
32. That is the first thing they tell drivers...
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 03:44 AM
Sep 2014

... at the driver/pit crew meeting before the races begin. If a driver got out of his car and got hit, I am not sure if even the event insurance or pit pass insurance would cover such negligence, having broken such rules.

What hasn't been mentioned so far, is that sprint car drivers are nearly totally blind to the right side of the machine. The right wing panel hanging down, the high engine cowl, dash, fiberglass/graphite panel that goes high on the right side of the cockpit and a full face helmet with probably about 20 layers of plastic tear offs to look through (it has been compared to trying to see through a plastic milk jug) Tony never seen him or knew he was there until, "something went thump". Another reason why they tell drivers to stay in their cars until safety crews get there, unless there is a fire.

The last two sentences may appear brutal, but it is one of the truths that need to be considered. The DA no doubt wants nothing left dangling(that is why they elected him, isn't it?) out of fear of a lawsuit, just like everyone else. So let a jury of peers review it and exhaust every means of judicial prudence. And start putting closure on this incident.

And yes, I have been part of the winged sprint car community for over 20 years.

Response to NoGOPZone (Original post)

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
8. Hmmm, that doesn't sound like a DU comment.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:50 PM
Sep 2014

It sounds like someone trying to discredit DU.

And for the record, the accident happened in true BLUE NY.

Corey_Baker08

(2,157 posts)
30. Ward Should Have Never Been Out Of His Car, Period.
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 12:46 AM
Sep 2014

If you got into a wreck in your own personal automobile and you got out of your car before emergency personnel arrived and you got hit, unless the car was on fire the driver who hit you would not be liable you would...

You are simply wrong a yellow flag does not make up for lights and sirens of an emergency vehicle....

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
31. A yellow flag on a race course means that hazardous conditions are present and you (the driver) are
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 03:43 AM
Sep 2014

required to go slowly enough to react to those conditions.

I'm not saying Ward should have gotten out of his car to confront Stewart, but Stewart was obviously not going slowly enough to control his vehicle, if he's claiming it was an "accident."

I don't think he's guilty of murder, but negligent homicide, yes.

IthinkThereforeIAM

(3,072 posts)
33. That is as slow as a sprint car can go under yellow...
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 03:50 AM
Sep 2014

... without stalling, as they have no transmission or even a clutch, they are directly connected to the crankshaft of the engine (I know, because I have built several of them from a frame, suspension pieces and a tray of bolts). And Tony was in control of the sprint car. Something else was out of control at the time.

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
34. If it were that open and shut, why is it going to a grand jury?
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 04:01 AM
Sep 2014

Stewart killed that man.

If it were that demonstrably an accident, there wouldn't be a grand jury.

If you're right, the grand jury won't indict.

I'm not gonna lie, I hope that they do, because the facts don't add up for me, and I want to hear public testimony in a public trial.

Maybe sprint cars need to be modified from their current form, if they're so dangerous and uncontrollable for "top drivers" like Stewart.

IthinkThereforeIAM

(3,072 posts)
35. I believe that is exactly why the DA is convening the grand jury...
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 04:59 AM
Sep 2014

Last edited Wed Sep 17, 2014, 05:45 AM - Edit history (1)

... on this incident. It is hard for the uninitiated (to sprint car and dirt track racing) to understand what they see in the somewhat dark and long shot video(s) available. The #45 car (the driver is a former track champion at this particular track, so not a novice) nearly hit Mr. Ward, too.

Getting back to my first sentence, sprint cars are a mystery to most people who have not attended more than a few sprint car races and visited the pits afterwards. As has been mentioned, there is no transmission, only an in/out option. The fact that the cars suspensions are set up with camber, stagger and weight shifting (ie... no two corners of the sprint car will have the same spring rates in the torsion bars or coil over springs, and shock rebound rates). Hence, ideally you want the sprint car to go through the corners with minimal steering effort = they turn themselves. It is a fight between man and machine to get it to go straight where the track is straight, although power steering has helped many (insider joke) to do that.

Here is a pretty good explanation of the mechanics of sprint cars. Note: The right wing panel hanging down and partially blocking view to the right. This is from 1994 or so, and the wing panels are larger and more square now. http://www.chucko.com/racing/the-cars.html


So, that being said and generally known in the die hard sprint racing crowd but not so much elsewhere, the grand jury will allow these physical traits of sprint cars to be better explained. The information in full will be there (hopefully) and an accurate assessment by those concerned and those curious enough at this point can be made.

It is tragic when any life is lost. Especially when the life is such a young and full of vitality one, such as in this case. I have seen drivers killed racing these cars. One with a birds eye view from the press box as the accident occurred on the front straight of a 3/8's mile track (small, up close and personal) and it changed me, too.

As to, "Maybe sprint cars need to be modified from their current form...", Humpy Wheeler of NASCAR promoter fame made such a suggestion once when NASCAR first took interest in putting in small dirt tracks at their major venues, such as Charlotte. Stating that sprint cars/open wheel cars need fenders on them so as to have more space to put advertising. The sprint car fans nearly revolted, and Humpy was never allowed to come close to a sprint car again. Just letting you know that changing the design concept of sprint cars is a no go. Yes, they are dangerous, and at times unpredictable (if a suspension part breaks when the car is at or near full throttle, the flips and spins are what make the weekly highlights films on the racing shows), that is why all that enter the pits at race time are required to sign an insurance waiver or contract and vow to follow the rules as stated at the pit/drivers meeting and as outlined on the form(s).

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
41. Thank you very much for this long, informative post.
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 11:09 AM
Sep 2014

I apologize it has taken me so long to respond, I had gone to bed.

I certainly bow to your clearly superior knowledge on these cars, and it does seem as if conditions make the accident more probable.

As I follow Formula 1 (and sports cars from time to time) and my husband is a weekend club racer, such an accident is completely inconceivable to me.

If a Formula 1 driver hit and killed someone on track under a yellow, even someone running out to confront them, they would be banned from the sport for life and almost certainly criminally prosecuted.

So, thank you for the explanation that certainly puts an additional light on things.

Finally, though, I do have to say that I do find it a little gruesome that fans would not want to see additional safety measures if this formula so incredibly dangerous. The last race death was Senna in 1994. I love all the F1 drivers (even the ones I love to hate like Vettel and Hamilton) and I'd be devastated, and probably stop watching, if any of them were to be killed in the sport, even while doing something stupid and out of character.

Corey_Baker08

(2,157 posts)
42. I Certainly Don't Agree With Your View That Tony Stewart Intentionally Killed This Man...
Fri Sep 19, 2014, 02:07 AM
Sep 2014

Tony Stewart owns Eldora Speedway in Rossburg, Ohio which is a middle of no where town about 20 miles from where I live and it is a dirt track. Tony Stewart has a passion for dirt track racing as well as racing sprint cars. He has done incredible great things for our community and is a true professional in his life and his career.

To imply that Tony Stewart who is in the prime of his Nascar career, has earned millions of dollars and has a beautiful familly would intentionally hit and kill this man on purpose is disgraceful.

If you want to debate new safety rules thats fine, but these are professionals who knowingly put their lives on the line every time they participate in this sport, The driver that was killed violated the safety precaution that anyone over 16 with a drivers license knows, after being involved in a motorvehicle accident do not get out of the car unless it is on fire or imminent danger is approaching until a rescue squad has arrived, making it so that this very type of incident would not take place, ecspecially when your on a dirt track with race cars around you.

He was nearly hit by a driver before Tony Stewart and got out of the race car with the sole intention of trying to make a name for himself by taunting or throwing his helmet at Tony Stewarts car, which has happened in Nascar numerous times and is played over and over on ESPN when this happens.

The Grand Jury will not indict Tony Stewart in this case and Tony Stewart will be cleared of all charges and people implicating he is murderer will owe him one damn big apology...

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
43. So in your view, being in one's prime, earning millions of dollars, and having a beautiful family
Fri Sep 19, 2014, 11:28 AM
Sep 2014

means that one would never do anything to intentionally hurt anyone?

That he should somehow be exempt from any kind of suspicion?

Give me a break.

You seem to be really emotionally invested in Stewart, and want him to be innocent.

I clearly stated in a previous post that I don't think he's guilty of murder, but negligent homicide. There is a difference.
And, he is currently undergoing his due process under the law. For that he's owed no apology.
Millions of people saw what he did, and opinions are divided. If Stewart has a brain at all, he must realize this is his best chance at clearing his name.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
38. I'm not an expert..
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 05:49 AM
Sep 2014

... but it it seems to me that letting a grand jury consider this is appropriate. I will trust them to weigh the evidence of which it seems there is plenty.

former9thward

(31,805 posts)
45. Tony Stewart not charged by grand jury in death of Kevin Ward Jr.
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 03:42 PM
Sep 2014
Tony Stewart will not be charged by an Ontario County (N.Y.) Grand Jury in the death of Kevin Ward Jr.
The grand jury announced Wednesday that there was no evidence of a criminal act. The case was passed on to the grand jury by Ontario County District Attorney Michael Tantillo last week. The Ontario County Sheriff's Department investigated the August 9 incident for approximately a month before the evidence had been presented to Tantillo.

By New York state law, any case that possibly involves felony charges must go to a grand jury for a possible indictment. Tuesday, the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported that the grand jury was hearing testimony in the case. The grand jury had three options: felony charges, misdemeanor charges or no charges. It chose the third option.



http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/tony-stewart-not-charged-by-grand-jury-in-death-of-kevin-ward-jr-190047656.html
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