Saudi clerics declare Isis terrorism a 'heinous crime' under sharia law

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

Saudi Arabia's senior clerical leadership has issued a new fatwa, or legal ruling, declaring terrorism a "heinous crime" under sharia law – part of an intensifying campaign by the conservative kingdom to undermine the legitimacy of Islamic State (Isis) insurgents in Iraq and Syria and to discourage support for the extremists.

"Terrorism is contrary to the purposes of the great religion of Islam, which came as a mercy to the world … and to ensure the system of worldly coexistence," said the 21-strong council of senior scholars, according to the Saudi Press Agency. "Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, which is innocent of this deviant ideology … [terrorism] is nothing more than corruption and criminality rejected by Islamic sharia law and common sense."

Any Muslim who thinks that jihad (which means "struggle&quot means joining a terrorist group "is ignorant and has gone astray", the clerics declared on Wednesday.

Diplomats said King Abdullah had been urging the council – the country's loyal religious establishment – to move faster to condemn terrorism and blunt the appeal of Isis after pledges by Saudi Arabia and nine other Arab states at a Jeddah conference last week with the US secretary of state, John Kerry.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/17/saudi-clerics-fatwa-declares-terrorism-heinous-crime-sharia-law

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A related story from a couple of weeks ago:

Saudi Arabia intensifies crackdown on extremist groups

Saudi Arabia is intensifying its high-profile crackdown on extremists against a background of growing alarm about jihadis in Iraq and Syria. it announced the arrest of 88 people, days after an imam was jailed for glorifying al-Qaida and the leader of Islamic State (Isis).

Scores of alleged militants have been imprisoned in recent weeks as the authorities have condemned Isis and warned, as King Abdullah told foreign envoys at the weekend, that terrorism needs to be fought "with force, reason and speed".

The government in Riyadh is rattled by the advances made by the jihadis and embarrassed by the fact Saudi nationals are estimated to make up the second biggest contingent of Arab foreign fighters in the ranks of the organisation, about 2,500 compared to 3,000 from Tunisia.

The Saudi interior ministry said it had arrested 88 people accused of preparing attacks at home and abroad. Three were Yemenis, one of unknown nationality and the remainder Saudis. Of those, 59 had previously been detained for membership of a "deviant group" – the usual term for al-Qaida. All had been under surveillance before being detained in the last few days, Al-Arabiya TV reported.

More: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/02/saudi-arabia-isis-jihadis-iraq-syria-extremists-crackdown

[pinto]

1. Whether it's "window dressing" or not, good to see a major Islam voice speak up about terrorism.

I think a big key to resolving the ISIS run of brutality in the region lies within the region itself.

[silvershadow]

2. I rec'd. But: I wonder when they will declare sharia law a heinous crime under UN guidelines,

or some other body which might govern human rights.

[haele]

3. Hmm, they must be threating the sovereignty of the Saudi family -

Methinks the ISIL caliphate dream has Al-Bagdhadi proposed as Caliph, not King Abdullah. It's not the religious practices that they argue with, ISIL acted pretty much the same as most of the other young thug groups like Al Nasur or Al Shabab or any of the other Saudi family member-supported units.

Haele

[Turborama]

4. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, it seems. n/t

[moondust]

5. Saudis had troops on the Iraqi border

a few weeks ago to repel ISIS if necessary, according to one report I heard. Haven't heard anything else about it.

I just hope this whole ISIS thing wasn't invented by some Saudis with the aim of dragging the U.S. into helping to get rid of Assad under the pretense of going after ISIS in Syria.

[candelista]

6. No, Haele is right. There can only be one caliph.

And it ain't gonna be the head of ISIS, if King Abdullah has his way.

[Duppers]

8. read...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025545166


http://www.democraticunderground.com/11336113

[moondust]

9. Meh.

I had seen that first thread and it made me wonder, but I have doubts because the Saudis wouldn't know how severely Iran would react to their scheming.

I wholly disagree with Robert Parry. Obama's handling of foreign policy is about as good as it gets given the unbelievably complex messes he's been forced to deal with. Had it been a reactionary, bellicose Republican in the WH, we'd probably all be dead by now.

[Duppers]

10. ...

here too.

[Dems to Win]

16. +1 Saudi king is just worried his own ox may be gored

[freshwest]

7. Major Islamic group in the UK also issued a fatwa against ISIS. Good work from Kerry getting the

Middle Eastern nations to define what they really believe that is of value.

I don't hold to the idea that Islam is necessarily barbaric, despite my own personal disgust. We now have Christianity's so-called Jewish texts being perverted and taken out of context to promote extremism here.

Such as stoning, denying rights to women, gays, migrants, etc. Islam in the Middle East had good relations and tolerated religious minorities for many centuries. The proof of that is, that they didn't flee their home countries or come to the USA. Since the 70's the extremists began to kill moderates and those who wanted more modern states.

They had them, too. This could be a good thing from the Saudis, even though they suck as far as what we call humane treatments and laws compared to us as they are much less about individual rights than the West has been. It took the West centuries of bloodshed to get to that point, something some forget as if it never was. It doesn't excuse current brutality in Islamic law, but it puts it in a time frame for which there can be improvement.

We're into Christianity and Judaism that has been reformed; and even had no hassle with those who didn't believe in anything, as part of a secular society.

Both America AND the Middle East have been sent back to a more hostile and brutal mentality through years of media saturation here. We've been given a steady mental diet that has extolled being brutal, dishonest and is now promoting tribalism. Voices and rulers in the ME have done the same thing in their channels of information. Our RW churches reflect the media culture, have taken this country back in time and are rearing up a new generation to believe that their own hatred is different from that of extremist Islam.

This has been a decades long process for us, so gradual most people didn't resist and defend vociferously all of the swill put out that they can possibly consume as mindless gratification.

IMO, extremist Islam is NOT a religion, no more than the new backward extremist Christianity we are currently afflicted with. It's about political power, not spiritual power, and they are into corporate thinking and desiring to force those who believe and don't, to conform for their own wealth and power.

I call bullshit on any comparing of religions, it's used as a cover for those who are gullible, and an excuse for those who know better (those who don't believe it) as an easy way to dismiss the need for action to save lives and dignity. The name calling doesn't change a thing, it is merely for the ego of those who do it.

The basic problems of 'man's inhumanity to man' includes women, animals, the ecosystem, profit over people and life in general and the denial of rights and acting in a humane fashion no matter what social status the 'other' has or even animals.

The Jewish texts are full of proscriptions about not oppressing any of that in order to survive. It is also full of genocide/ This is the mindset of extremists, whether in the USA or ME. They want to have it all.

Having lived through genocide much more than once, Jews are very sensitive to this now, or at least those I know.

The world's real issues are not addressed by any extremism. This is not a popularity contest. We don't have time for this shit unless we are ready to accept a feudalism that will come because it which fits into the old, unreformed faiths being pushed on us.

JMHO.

[CJCRANE]

12. I agree. I think religious fundamentalism has been deliberately encouraged

to dumb us down, divide us and make us easily manipulated.

Some are now realizing that they've gone too far, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to rein it back in.

IMO we need to go back to our traditional secular values. Religious belief is a private choice and something that has no place in the political sphere.

[Uncle Joe]

11. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Turborama.

[Shemp Howard]

13. Talk is cheap.

It's a start, but talk is cheap, very very cheap.

Now, here's what would have a real impact:

The Saudi air force is small, but modern. If the Saudis offered to join the military coalition against ISIS, that would mean something.

The Saudis are, of course, very rich. If they pledged - and followed through - with billions of dollars of aid to ALL the victims of ISIS, that would mean something.

Just think of what that money could do to help rebuild shattered villages, and shattered lives.

But somehow I think the Saudis will do nothing of substance. Maybe issue a few proclamations, maybe make a few arrests...but that's it. Pathetic.

[Dems to Win]

15. +1

I would believe this is a real sentiment if the Saudis stepped up to help the Yazidis or Turkmen. But they won't lift a pinkie to help the infidels.

ISIS wasn't a problem as long as they were killing infidels. But now, ISIS wants to overthrow Abdullah and install their own caliph, so the Saudis now see them as a threat.

[Hestia]

14. May be in response to this: ISIS destroys shrines and mosques, may be targeting Mecca

You know SA is not going to allow their cash cow (and oh yeah, holy site) to be destroyed.

I know, I know, consider the source
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/10/isis-destroys-shrines-and-mosques-sets-sights-on-mecca/

[Dems to Win]

17. Saudi authorities have condemned terrorism before this

And the clerics have continued to preach 'kill the infidel, especially the Shia' in the mosques.

Here's a Reuters article about this statement:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/saudi-clerics-terrrism_n_5834450.html

quote:

Some liberal Saudis and foreign analysts have said that while senior Wahhabi clerics have spoken out against militant groups, they routinely use highly intolerant language towards Shi'ites and non Muslims that may contribute to radicalisation.

also:

The mufti, Sheik Abdulaziz Al al-Sheik, in 2007 said "terrorists" deserved "had al-harraba," the ultimate punishment under Sharia which involves execution followed by the public display of the body as a deterrent.


I'm a skeptic that they actually mean what they say and will act to change anything. Actions speak louder than words, as mentioned abovethread.

[JI7]

18. because Isis is more of a criminal gang

Than religious fanatics.

[Lodestar]

19. I don't think this conflict is about religion anyway...

Resources and power.

[Rhinodawg]

20. Blah,blah,blah