BREAKING: Israel military says shot down Syrian aircraft that entered its airspace in Golan Heights
Source: Associated Press
Sep 23, 3:30 AM EDT
ISRAEL MILITARY SHOOTS DOWN SYRIAN AIRCRAFT
BY IAN DEITCH
ASSOCIATED PRESS
JERUSALEM (AP) -- The Israeli military says it has shot down a Syrian aircraft that infiltrated its airspace over the Golan Heights.
The military says a "Syrian aircraft infiltrated into Israeli air space" on Tuesday morning. It says the military "intercepted the aircraft in mid-flight, using the Patriot air defense system."
The military wouldn't say what type of aircraft was downed and says the circumstances of the incident are "unclear."
A defense official identified the plane as a Syrian MIG fighter jet. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
Israel has largely stayed on the sidelines of Syria's civil war raging across the border. But Israeli leaders appear increasingly nervous about the possibility of al-Qaida-linked fighters occupying the Golan's high ground over northern Israel.
Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_SYRIA_
newfie11
(8,159 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Not exactly aces in the geography department are we?
The Golan Heights is Syrian territory.
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)It's Syrian Territory occupied by Israel.
"Claims on the territory include the fact that an area in northwestern of the Golan region, delineated by a rough triangle formed by the towns of Banias, Quneitra and the northern tip of the Sea of Galilee, was part of the British Palestine Mandate in which the establishment of a Jewish national home had been promised.[119] In 1923, this triangle in northwestern Golan was ceded to the French Mandate in Syria, but in exchange for this, land areas in Syria and Lebanon was ceded to Palestine, and the whole of the Sea of Galilee which previously had its eastern boundary connected to Syria was placed inside Palestine.[120] Syrians counter that the region was placed in the Vilayet of Damascus as part of Syria under the Ottoman boundaries and that the 1920 British-Franco agreement which had placed part of the Golan under the control of Britain was only temporary and that the final border line drawn up in 1923, which excluded the Golan triangle, had superseded it,[119] although Syria has never recognised the 1923 border as legally binding".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights
hack89
(39,171 posts)You really think Syria has the legal right to fly military aircraft over the Golan?
FlatStanley
(327 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 is pretty clear - land for a peace treaty.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)legally. Until a peace treaty is signed.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)Do they belong to Israel as well?
hack89
(39,171 posts)that is why there are no Israeli police and troops in Gaza. The WB is occupied and does not belong to Israel.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)Which nations must sign a peace treaty to free up the West Bank?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Israel withdrew from Gaza. You have a strange definition of annex. Gaza is being blockaded in accordance with international law due to Hamas' penchant for smuggling weapons and shooting them at Israel.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)And since nothing goes in and out of Gaza without Israeli approval, I don't know what other word to use if not occupied. Perhaps you have a better word.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Jordan has renounced all claims to the West Bank. If the PA is not a legitimate negotiating partner then why has the UN, America and Israel wasted the past 20 years trying to get them to agree to a treaty that would settle the boundaries of Palestine.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)and entitled to Israeli citizenship. Anything less would be apartheid.
hack89
(39,171 posts)I don't believe it is Israel's land - they should withdraw their settlements. But it should remain under their control until a treaty is signed in accordance with the UN resolution.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)Occupied. I was simply trying to determine with whom the Israelis would sign a treaty since they don't acknowledge any legitimate nation.
Mosby
(16,168 posts)And both parties entered into agreements that spell out the parameters of Israeli and Palestinian control of the west bank and Gaza.
FlatStanley
(327 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)How can you occupy territory without actually occupying it? There are no Israelis in Gaza. The phrase occupied territory has a specific meaning in international law. Instead of making up our own, why don't we use that definition?
FlatStanley
(327 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)still_one
(91,961 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)The Security Council,
Having considered the letter of 14 December 1981 from the Permanent Representative of the Syrian Arab Republic contained in document S/14791,
Reaffirming that the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible, in accordance with the United Nations Charter, the principles of international law, and relevant Security Council resolutions,
1. Decides that the Israeli decision to impose its laws, jurisdiction and administration in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights is null and void and without international legal effect;
2. Demands that Israel, the occupying Power, should rescind forthwith its decision;
3. Determines that all the provisions of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 continue to apply to the Syrian territory occupied by Israel since June 1967;
4. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the implementation of this resolution within two weeks and decides that in the event of non-compliance by Israel, the Security Council would meet urgently, and not later than 5 January 1982, to consider taking appropriate measures in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Really?
That one?
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)In any event, you don't get to pick and choose which Security Council resolutions are binding. The Golan Heights is Syrian territory. You might not like it, but there it is.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Not me. Its Israel's until Israel decides to give it back. You may not like it but its a fact.
Syria wont try a cheap surprise attack again...they might lose even more land.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)and also the following countries:-
Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Congo, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao Peoples Democratic Republic, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.
and pretty much any international jurist you can name.
In fact, the only country that does not consider the Golan to be occupied Syrian territory is Israel.
former9thward
(31,802 posts)What happened? What did the Security Council do?
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)country to have as a neighbor. They show absolutely no sympathy to the fact that Syria is fighting dangerous terrorist groups. They let the terrorists take refuge on their side of the stolen land but if Syria dares to attack those terrorists hiding on Israeli side, they will use their best weapons on them.
Makes it easier to understand why nobody (except the saudis and other monarchy dictators) likes them
I wish I could tell you how unbelievably repulsed I am by your post but I need to calm down before I say something that would get me axed.
man, am I apoplectic !!
RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)I bet this will be worth waiting for!
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I will predict that no matter how polite and pointed my post will be, some anonymous person with total impunity will reflexly hit the alert button figuring he/she has a 40-50 % chance of getting it removed...with no downside to the alerter.
So I may just suck it up.
RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)you get more mileage out of that cartoon than a Chevy Volt.
7962
(11,841 posts)jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)who has been a victim of few 4-3 votes against me, I ask you to please speak your mind and please to the voters or possible alerters, please know that I am OK with whatever he has to tell me. I don't care what his tone is or the words he uses. Just address whatever you have to say cos I really would like to see if you can talk me down from my stance.
I would like to know why its OK for Israel to welcome terrorist rebels attacking Syria and then shoot down Syrian jet fighter when it comes into an area stolen from The Syrians to attack said terrorists.
I will say it again, Please do NOT alert his response to me. I don't need you stifling speech to protect me
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I just know what will happen.
Mosby
(16,168 posts)It's disgusting.
He has killed 190,000 Syrians.
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)Although I am not defending Israel's actions, Israeli Air Corps' doctrine calls for 'clear skies over Israel', simply stated. Any hostile or potentially hostile intruder is dealt with immediately, most often with deadly consequences. From the Israeli P.O.V., the doctrine is a matter of survival, considering the fact that modern jet fighter aircraft can traverse Israel from east-to-west in just 6-7 minutes.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)do a better job controlling their borders. They shouldn't be allowing so called rebels who have attacked Syria to cross into their borders. Only a paranoid person would think Syria is trying to pick some type of fight with Israel. They already have enough on their plate.
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)Nowhere has it been reported that rebels have crossed into Israel, only the Syrian Air Force.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)Its has been on the news before. Pictures of injured fighters(young men with beards) getting treatment in Israel and the news spin it as Israel helping Syrian refugees. Yes, they have been undermining the govt in Syria by siding with the terrorist rebels. I wish I saved it but there was video of some Israeli IDF nurse saying that the hospital she worked for were treating Al Nusra front terrorists.
I ask this again, why else would the terrorists want to open up a front between them and Israel?
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)Your replies are not responsive to my post about the 'clear skies over Israel' doctrine of the Israeli Air Corps. Please stay on the topic.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)that once you allow your country to become a safe haven for terrorists, you lose every right to claim the doctrine of 'clear skies over Israel'. But what can anyone do, might makes right in the situation.
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)EX500rider
(10,531 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)In what alternate reality is that?
The USA is now arming these rebels, you do know this don't you?
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)the Golan Heights is Syrian territory.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)after all, those are the facts on the ground.
NickB79
(19,113 posts)That's fucking stupid to say.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)the UN in the Golan Height region. Why the hell do you think terrorists would want to come anywhere close to Israeli borders if they weren't secretly supporting them? There have been stories were Israeli nurses have come out to expose treating Syrian so called rebels.
Believe me, they wouldn't be lurking near the Israeli borders if they weren't getting support from them.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)The Stranger
(11,297 posts)Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)( To the jury...Since someone will anonymously hit the alert button ,as usual ,when they don't like something, I have specifically NOT been disruptive, hurtful ,or rude to anyone. I have not been insensitive to anyone here. No over-the-top comments to anyone other than the Syrian government and all comments are appropriate including links. )
" Israel got to be the worst country to have as a neighbor.. They show absolutely no sympathy to the fact that Syria is fighting dangerous terrorist groups. "
Really ??.. No sympathy, huh?...Don't tell that to the Syrian army or its people..
Israel treats 7 wounded Syrians who approached Golan border
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-treats-7-wounded-syrians-who-approached-golan-border.premium-1.512047
IDF evacuates wounded Syrian to Haifa hospital
http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-evacuates-syrian-citizen-to-israeli-hospital/
Rare Look at the IDF Field Hospital Saving Syrian Civilian Lives
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/10340/rare-look-idf-field-hospital-saving-syrian-civilian-lives/#tdRFTgfOlQAtr3Gb.99
Across Forbidden Border, Doctors in Israel Quietly Tend to Syrias Wounded
http://thenewstalkers.com/forum/topics/across-forbidden-border-doctors-in-israel-quietly-tend-to-syria-s
Israels secret doctors ( Israeli medical teams goes INTO refugee camps)
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/09/07/robert-fulford-israels-secret-doctors/
Fleeing Syria: Israeli hospital helps injured when no one else will
http://www.journalnow.com/specialreports/syria/fleeing-syria-israeli-hospital-helps-injured-when-no-one-else/article_153b1667-af38-538e-a4bf-a93bcd15055d.html
Israeli Doctors Work Undercover in Syria to Save Lives
http://unitedwithisrael.org/israeli-doctors-work-undercover-in-syria-to-save-lives/
And my favorite
Syrian mom has boy in Israeli hospital( Syrian refugee needed Israel)
http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-syrian-refugee-gives-birth-in-israeli-hospital/
You are sooo pathetically wrong...ENDLESS SYMPATHY to the Syrians.
"They let the terrorists take refuge on their side of the stolen land but if Syria dares to attack those terrorists hiding on Israeli side, they will use their best weapons on them. "
First there is zero proof that Syrian terrorists get refuge by Israel.....none....nada....zilch. In fact there is little interaction between the Syrian terrorists/extremists/ militants/ rebels and Israel because they don't want to fuck with Israel.
2nd the "Stolen land" bullshit.... maybe the Syrians shouldn't have surprised attack Israel in 67 and they would still have it. They got their asses handed to them and they lost land. Tough shit. And yet all they have to do is recognize Israel and they would get it back. Sucks to lose a war isn't it . They wont pull that shit again, will they ?
"they will use their best weapons on them"
Good, they wont try to fuck with Israel again.
"Makes it easier to understand why nobody (except the saudis and other monarchy dictators) likes them"
Really ? I guess that's why the sworn enemy of Israel, Haniyeh, sent his grand-daughter to Israel for medical care.
Israeli Doctors Treat Hamas PM Haniyehs Granddaughter
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/11/18/israeli-doctors-treat-hamas-pm-haniyehs-granddaughter/
and why the Arab states were QUIETLY supporting Israel to destroy Hamas.
Israel Finds Silent Backing by Arab Nations Hostile to Hamas
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-10/israel-finds-silent-backing-among-arab-nations-hostile-to-hamas.html
Looks like your theory of why nobody likes them SUCKS !!!
Usually (not here of course) when I read on the non-DU internet such incredibly wrong comments its usually from some anti-Semitic prick hiding behind "anti-Zionism" speading jew-hate (not here of course).
I certainly do not think that's you .I think you are a little misguided.
I hope you read the articles posted.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)Hey jamz...I spent an hour on that post collating it... the least you can do is respond.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I spent an hour doing it.
I sent him a du mail telling him I responded...
and now he ignores the post.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)The terrorists are moving to Israel for medical treatment, I have said this already. And yes, there are a sprinkle of civilians here and there but the truth is that Israel is giving refuge, weapons and I would guess intelligence to terrorists attacking the state of Syria. Do you want me to believe that the Syrian govt was using jet fighters to attack innocent civilians running to Israel for medical treatment? Assad is not that stupid, the jet fighter Israel destroyed was chasing after Al Nusra fighters, most likely the same one that took UN peacekeepers hostage in the Golan height
New Vids how Al Nusrah Front and Partners take over the Syrian Army Crossingpoint Quneitra on Golan Heights.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=170_1409226929#170wqvrkpi8RDorZ.99
FSA rebels with Israeli made weapons
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f63_1363145124
FSA beheaders crossing border from Israel occupied Golan to Syria.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dff_1409757206
Israeli Nurse treating wounded militants across Syrian Border
Israeli nurse explains how IDF protect extremists fighting the Syrian Army. Sorry, no english translations... Hopefully someone who can understand Hebrew can confirm what she is actually saying
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=272_1402178651#yJLtUhL8EGElyGCZ.99
But there are many many videos like this showing Israeli support for the terrorist rebels attacking Syria and then running back into Israel for protection. I don't blame Syria for going after these terrorists.
Please do not discount liveleak as some kooky website, they have supporters from all sides posting successful hit and general victories in the war. Some of the videos were posted by the terrorist supporters themselves and they very current with real people on the ground posting.
Rhinodawg
(2,219 posts)I am a little befuddled but I do believe they treat more civilians than militants.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)their behaviour when you realize that Syria their neighbour is the biggest Middle east ally to Iran who is their mortal enemy. Weakening or even toppling the Syrian govt for a weaker govt and anti Iran, Sunni leadership(which are the rebels) is in their national security interest.
former9thward
(31,802 posts)Utter nonsense. Proves you know nothing about Israeli security forces and their practices.
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)Thanks for the thread, Hissyspit.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)when the pilots had already turned around and flown back into their own territory.
former9thward
(31,802 posts)There was a ceasefire in 1973 but no peace treaty. It would take minutes for a jet to get to Tel Aviv crossing from Syria.
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)headed back, it never bombed or strafed Israel.
Then Israel fired a Patriot Missile at the plane of the nation actively battling the terrorist organization; al Qaeda that Israel claims it doesn't want in the Golan Heights.
Common sense and logic should tell the "leadership" of Israel, that the last thing Syria; a nation divided and weakened by civil war wants or needs is an active war with Israel.
This Jet posed no threat to Israel but they shot it down anyway most likely just out of spite and perhaps for other reasons but it wasn't national security.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)Here's an Israeli take on the matter:
Syrian confirms its MiG-21 intercepted by Patriot missile; this is first time since 1982 that the IAF has downed a Syrian aircraft.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.617329
~snip~
The defense establishment has not yet confirmed whether the jet infiltrated Israeli territory purposefully or errantly.
Syria confirmed late Tuesday morning that Israel had shot down one of its war planes, in what it described as an act of aggression.
Syrian state TV quoted a military source saying the downing of the plane, which coincided with U.S.-led air strikes against Islamic State in Syria, came "in the framework of [Israel's] support for the terrorist [Islamic State] and the Nusra Front."
The interception of the Syrian jet came after a night of heavy U.S.-led air strikes against Islamic State targets in the northwest of the country.
Fighting from Syria's civil war has occasionally spilled over into the Golan. Israel has scrambled jets toward Syrian aircraft approaching the border in the past, but has never opened fire.
Evidently, the two pilots of that MiG parachuted out before the plane crashed. The Guardian has posted videos of the missile strike and also the parachutes.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/live/2014/sep/23/us-air-strikes-against-isis-in-syria-live-updates
happyslug
(14,779 posts)I was wondering how they were able to get two pilots AND parachutes into a MIG-21, it is a very small plane, but it turns out to be a SU-24, a much larger attack plane. This is accordinjg to the Haaretz article cited below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.617329
drm604
(16,230 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)Syrian pilots ejecting out of their destroyed jets only to be captured and beheaded by syrian rebels. I hope the 2 made it out alive.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)He moved the family and buddies families to Geneva Mansions a long time ago.
He's not even in his own country anymore.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)"The decision to down the jet was made after 1:20 minutes of flight; when the Patriot hit the plane, the Syrian pilots had already turned around and flown back into their territory."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.617329
after the pilots had already turned around and flown back into their territory.
What is wrong with this picture?
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)and was locked as off topic? Haaretz article right after it happened. Did I do it wrong?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014901552
greyl
(22,990 posts)The locking message at the top of a thread is only an automatic default, so you have to look at the bottom of the thread for a more explanatory message from the locking Host.
This is the one from your locked thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014901430
Please continue the discussion in the older thread. Thanks!
FormerOstrich
(2,689 posts)and listens to the evening news, as opposed to the internet and mobile phone.
I told him yesterday morning about the plane. He told me there was no mention on the evening news.
Today we both scoured the Arizona Republic for the news account. There wasn't a single mention of the event.
I searched AZCentral.com and did not find any article whatsoever. I wrote the AZ republic news staff and asked why. I do not expect any reply.
Here we have a Syrian jet ostensibly to have penetrated 2,600 feet into Israeli air space and tried to return to Syria after a Patriot missile was fired. Yes, less than a mile into Israeli air space and was downed after it returned to Syria airspace by a Patriot missile. I don't see how there would have been time for a warning, so I assume there weren't any.
The event coincides with the launching of US led airstrikes within Syria and there major news organizations have deemed the event unworthy of even a small mention? WTH?