Report: Officer Shoots Self While Cleaning Gun in Federal Courtroom

[Stuart G]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by defacto7 (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Talking Points Memo:

A court officer reportedly shot himself while cleaning his gun on Friday inside the U.S. Bankruptcy Court building in Grand Rapids, Mich., according to television station WOOD.


The television station cited anonymous sources for its report. A forensics unit was called to the scene to investigate the incident, according to the station.

WOOD also reported the status of the court officer's condition had not yet been released, but he has been taken to a nearby hospital.


Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/grand-rapids-bankruptcy-court-shooting

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No I am not making these stories up.
Stuart.
...hit the above link... for yourself...

...and here is another link from the Grand Rapids TV Station that first reported this...:

http://woodtv.com/2014/10/03/report-shooting-at-grand-rapids-police-department/

[daleanime]

1. ........

[LongTomH]

2. Has anyone notified the Darwin Awards?

[progressoid]

7. He needs to die or

shoot off his balls to qualify.

[rhett o rick]

51. He needs to be rendered incapable of reproduction. nm

[logosoco]

3. I am very unfamilar with guns, have never owned one or held one, except maybe a BB

gun. Why is it that we seem to hear about so many accidents when they are being cleaned? Is a gun that dirty? Does having dirt on them affect their performance? How exactly do they get so dirty? And I am just assuming it should be unloaded when it is being cleaned and that people forget to do this?

[NickB79]

21. Because idiots aren't following basic safe gun handling rules

Rule one: always VISUALLY confirm your gun is unloaded.

With a pistol, that would mean removing the magazine and racking the slide to actually see that there is no round in the chamber.

[logosoco]

23. So said idiot should lose his job and not be allowed to carry a firearm in public, right? nt

[NickB79]

29. Yep, at the very least.

I'd even go so far as to charge him with a crime for discharging a firearm in public, even though the only victim is himself.

[jtuck004]

25. When you fire one the burnt powder coats everything. It can be corrosive after a while,

and dirt/grime can affect performance in other ways, not to mention safety. They can be slippery little suckers.

In sporting one is often outside, and firearms get muddy/dirty even if you miss most or all of your shots. You then get to clean your, hopefully unloaded, firearm while the animals stand in the woods and have a little chuckle at your expense.

Even if you don't shoot it, cleaning it periodically helps make sure it functions well when you need for it to.

But people forget to respect these deadly weapons as the tools they are, and often use them improperly, and often with tragic results.

And there ya go

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Depends.

Some 90 million gun owners in this country, so 'hearing it a lot' is actually not statistically meaningful, it's incredibly rare.

But 'accidental' (negligent) discharges when cleaning it break down into a couple categories, one of them more likely for police officers, as they are prone to using a particular type of pistol, either Glock or Springfield, of a certain type; Dual Action or Dual Action Only (Glock calls it theirs 'Safe Action', but meh, it's categorically a Dual Action Only system).

1. Actual accident.
2. Some other idiocy (watch this!) that leads to a discharge of the weapon, and then a 'cleaning it' cover story.
3. Suicide or suicide attempt. Suicide often abrogates life insurance, and sometimes people will lay out a can of break free, a dirty rag, and then shoot themselves in the head, as an 'accident', so they get their suicide, and their family still gets the insurance. Sad, but it happens.


The reason I called out those types of service weapons, is that in the process of disassembling a Dual Action Only pistol, often part of the process is pulling back the slide, and then the trigger. So you have to be genuinely sure the damn thing is unloaded, and you haven't absent-mindedly put the mag back in it, accidentally (again, negligently) chambering a round, before pulling the trigger, and having the gun work as advertised.

It's a design philosophy issue that has produced some problems for negligent or very inexperienced users. (which is then a training issue/supervision issue)

[logosoco]

37. Thank you for your interesting and informative post!

So, basically, a person cleaning a gun should really do it away from other people, just to be extra careful. And an armed officer should not be doing it in a public venue, as in this case.

What you have said about the "suicide" events makes sense. It also kind of makes me think of the times I hear about the man "accidentally" shooting his wife while cleaning his gun. It just seems to much like a cover story. I guess I somehow always picture some guy who probably never cleaned anything that his wife asked him.

I try to have an open mind about guns, but it is really hard sometimes. I appreciate it when someone takes the time to explain it without brushing me off as gun grabber! I don't want to take guns away from the people who treat them as they should be treated, I would just like to figure out ways to prevent "accidents". And of course, when they are used maliciously, but that one is past me.

[NutmegYankee]

40. Overconfidence or a lack of attention.

The first step to dismantle a standard magazine fed handgun is to unload the hammer mainspring by pulling the trigger. If the gun is unloaded this isn't much of anything. If it's loaded...

[Helen Borg]

48. It's like an iPad...

It's very annoying when it's not shiny and you can see greasy fingerprints on it

[rhett o rick]

52. Guns that are used a lot will get gunpowder residue built up which can cause problems.

If not used the oil can dry up and the working mechanisms get sticky. Step one when cleaning a gun is to unload it. Step two is to verify that it's unloaded. My father in law shot his home furnace with an unloaded gun. He was licensed to carry but couldn't understand why no one wanted to be around him when he got his gun out.

[Ash_F]

54. It will jam if not cleaned after a certain amount of shots

It depends on the type of weapon. Semi-automatic magazine fed weapons, like the pistols normally issued to police, tend to need more cleaning.

[olddad56]

4. Did this officer happen to be named Barney Fife?

[jtuck004]

5. First should say "Shot Self While Pulling Trigger". Because there is nothing in the act of cleaning

that would typically "cause" the gun to fire. Especially since it is usually unloaded during such a procedure.

Second: For the non-gun person, it is a little weird to think someone is going to pull out their firearm in a federal courtroom and "clean" it.

It's possible the reporter misheard, and the gun was fired while "clearing" it - which would be the act of ejecting the live round from the chamber for storage or simply to take it out of a ready-to-fire mode. Or, bored in a courtroom, someone just starts jacking around with their gun. Oops.

Typically with such guns, being semi-automatics, one removes the "clip" that holds other bullets, then holds the grip and pulls back on the "slide". This ejects the live round.

Or, as perhaps demonstrated here, one can just pull the trigger. That effectively removes the live round from the chamber as well, though the consequences can be severe.

[L0oniX]

12. The consequences of having this idiot on the police force can also be severe.

[iscooterliberally]

13. I agree. It should say 'shot while playing with his gun'.

Who cleans their gun in a courthouse anyway? That's just weird.

[JohnnyRingo]

15. I'll bet he was practicing his quick draw in front of the mirror...

...while yelling "freeze maggot!"

I recall that Andy caught Barney more than once doing that at the sheriff's station, but he kept his bullet safely in his pocket. If this clown was shot in the leg, it probably happened when he was putting it back in the holster.

I'd lie too.
hahaha

[Dustlawyer]

17. Bankruptcy Court is very boring, maybe he should be in a Famly Law Court where all the action is!

[jtuck004]

26. I wonder if the Koch Bros hired him to dissuade the little people from bankruptcy? n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

33. I agree, this was most likely CLEARING the weapon, in an un-approved manner.

And is why clearing barrels were invented.

[Historic NY]

6. Some of the comments at WOOD TV...

are well hilarious. WTF cleans a gun while at work, especially at the high risk job at bankruptcy court.

[LittleGirl]

14. Thanks for that tip

I had a good chuckle or two.

[rurallib]

8. Once again today I must ask however does the Onion stay in business

when reality is so much more ironic?

[blkmusclmachine]

9. Bwahaha

[L0oniX]

10. Was he holding his hands up?

[JohnnyRingo]

11. Also known as "fucking off at work".

Shouldn't he be cleaning his gun at home on his own time? Makes me wonder what he was doing with it in the bathroom that he had to clean up afterwards. LOL

I'm sorry, but as a gun owner myself, I've never stopped in the middle of the day to suddenly give one a thorough cleaning. It should only need done after each use.

I'll bet he was more likely practicing his quick draw in front of the bathroom mirror but doesn't want to admit it. Dumbass.

[NutmegYankee]

41. If it was a police service weapon, it makes sense that he would do it on the clock.

Maintenance of the sidearm would be a duty. Why in the courthouse? Good question.

[Doctor_J]

16. if only there had been a good guy with a gun around to prevent this

[valerief]

18. I didn't know guns were cleaned with bullets in them. Very curious. nt

[El Shaman]

24. Yup,

good thing it weren't a grande launcher !!!!

[awoke_in_2003]

42. would you shoot someone with a dirty bullet?

They might get an infection

[valerief]

43. Bwah!

[dickthegrouch]

19. How many SWAT teams responded?

WHY NOT???????
Were they so certain it was a white guy who'd caused the discharge so quickly that there was no need for a SWAT team?
How?
Why can't they be that certain that quickly when a black guy is involved?

[Earth_First]

20. Who cleans a loaded firearm?!

The official story seems suspect...

[SoapBox]

32. Who cleans a loaded gun?

An idiot...a moron...a dullard...a gomer or goober...a maroon...

Take your pick.

[El Shaman]

22. Film at 11:00 (

heads up for the limping dude in khakis.

[shenmue]

27. Don't you hate it when that happens?

[catbyte]

28. I saw the report on WOODTV 8. The moran shot himself in the hand.

Idiot.

[SoapBox]

31. Another idiot with a gun...

Oh but...I'm sure it's O-bama's fault.

[obxhead]

34. I call bs.

This reads like a suicide being covered up as an accident.

Not that suicide reads much better.

[yesiwasacop]

35. This happens once in a while

I am pretty sure all cops are taught to clear their firearm first before cleaning the pistol. Typically - as mentioned by another poster- it is a semi-auto pistol. You first remove the magazine, rack the slide 3/4 times and OBSERVE a clear chamber. Check the magazine well and ensure there is no magazine and check the chamber again. Point pistol in SAFE direction (a clearing tube would be appropriate- not your leg) and pull the trigger and drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

Now since most departments carry glock pistols, one has to pull the trigger in order to dis-assemble the pistol. That is done AFTER clearing it. Does create a problem though.

Anyway- this happens on occasion. On my former dept, I know one dude who did this probably 18 yrs ago (left thigh)We are still hassling him about it. They get a couple accidental discharges per year (usually clearing at the range). Makes for good fun in briefing to bust their chops for oh....a few years at least.

This You-Tube vid is pretty old, but is used fairly often to hopefully train cops not to screw around.

DEA Agent- not graphic

[packman]

49. Seems like I read that

the guy who shot himself (funny after all these years "I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this weapon&quot is suing various police dept. who show this video. He feels he is being made an object of derision and reticule.

[yesiwasacop]

55. I had not heard that but

I did just now google it. Looks like in 2012 he lost an appeal on the suit.

This video is constantly shown to recruits for training and in briefings for refresher training.

This is another one shown for training on keeping finger off the trigger-

I dont think she hit the arrestee directly, but it looks like he got a facefull of concrete spalling.

....oh and a well deserved payout from LV PD.

[tularetom]

36. Not totally on point but this is a classic

[packman]

50. Shit, that is funny-never saw it before.

[TNNurse]

38. Just two questions

Who cleans a loaded gun? Who cleans a gun inside a court room?

[yesiwasacop]

39. Answert to both ?s

The guy who shot himself- I think he is all alone in this.

[kath]

44. What a frickin' moran!

[NBachers]

45. Let's see, what would happen to ME if I went into a Federal Courtroom and shot off a gun?

Not, of course, that I'm planning to do anything like that . . .

[Stuart G]

47. Excellent Point..What would happen to a "regular citizen"?

Cleaning a gun in a courtroom..or federal building, the thing goes off, for some reason..................and hurts someone else????, not yourself.....

Now what would happen?????????????

Or......................you hurt yourself...Now what would happen to the "regular citizen" who brought a loaded gun in a court building and shot himself/herself while cleaning it.?

So what is going to happen to this cop????????????? or whatever he was..?

My guess is that the so called "system" will take care of him...he will still have his job..
.. ............. .............

[santamargarita]

53. :)

[defacto7]

56. locking

Local news and does not meet LBN SOP for breaking news. Repost in one of the Guns groups.