Military Board Says Marine Who Criticized President Obama Should Be Dismissed
Source: NYT
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) A Marine who criticized President Barack Obama on his Facebook page has committed misconduct and should be dismissed, a military board recommended late Thursday.
The Marine Corps administrative board made the decision after a daylong hearing at Camp Pendleton for Sgt. Gary Stein.
The board also recommended that Stein be given an other-then-honorable discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.
The board's recommendations go to a general who will either accept or deny them. If the general disagrees with the board, the case could go to the secretary of the Navy.
Stein's lawyers argued that the 9-year Marine, whose service was to end in four months, was expressing his personal views and exercising his First Amendment rights.
"We're truly surprised and disappointed but it was an honor to fight for a hero like Sgt. Stein and every other Marine's right to speak freely," Stein's defense attorney Marine Capt. Jame Baehr said."
</snip>
Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/04/06/business/ap-us-marine-free-speech.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto
SteveABG
(134 posts)Don't want to respect the chain of command, don't join the military.
BadtotheboneBob
(413 posts)... You just can't do that. I was in when Nixon was POTUS and he was not well liked by the troops. But, we knew to keep our mouths shut. The day he resigned there was much joy and relief around Brooke Army Medical Center, I'm tellin' ya.
Lasher
(28,233 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 6, 2012, 01:04 PM - Edit history (1)
What a loser, I made it that far in less than 2 years.
Edit to clarify: I was offered E-5 after having served about 18 months. I turned it down. I just wanted to get the hell out.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)For what!! He broke the military code of conduct and that makes him a hero? This has nothing to do with free speech and it's an insult to the constitution to say it does.
Typical NYC Lib
(182 posts)Most overused (and abused) word in the dictionary.
Namvet67
(111 posts)I got to E-4 in 13 months......but E-5 in 9 years.....hahahahaha
Sgent
(5,858 posts)no question an E-5 after 9 years is pretty bad, but I know (for instance) that infantry marines tend to move up very slowly -- at least a few years ago. Most ust make corporal after a 4 year enlistment, with a few meritorious (outside normal channels) promotions to sergeant.
Corgigal
(9,292 posts)Oh, that's going to hurt. This veteran says yes he should and I served under Reagan and never disrespected the Commander in Chief. The voting booth was my only say, it's what you accept when you join the military.
trusty elf
(7,472 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)whether or that. It sounds funny coming from someone who is a doctoral student. Damn grammar!
jmowreader
(51,316 posts)It is the administrative version of the Bad Conduct Discharge, which has to be awarded as part of the sentence of a "BCD Special" Court Martial.
The discharge is rarely used because if you're a big enough fuckup to merit an OTH discharge, you did something bad enough that you'd be found guilty at a BCD Special or a General court-martial.
trusty elf
(7,472 posts)I was just trying to point out the seemingly unnoticed typo "then", which should read "than".
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... of course he knew Nixon was an asshole too.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and what's out on facebook are 2 different things?
Scuba
(53,475 posts).... and if everyone who criticized the Prez (and war) were drummed out, there would have been a lot fewer grunts. Heck, it would have become the "section 8" of its day.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)An internal meterologists forum:
Facebook:
Scuba
(53,475 posts)sorefeet
(1,241 posts)when they have Rush on AFR. They are just obeying the propaganda.
Cobalt Violet
(9,909 posts)Armed Forces Tea Party =
Schulz
(4 posts)This is democrazy
tonybgood
(218 posts)When you enlist in the military, you give up your rights under the Constitution and submit yourself to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. There is no democracy in the military!
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Please bury that false meme.
tonybgood
(218 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Not true. You still have Constitutional Rights, but they become more limited.
This is true.
Not true. You still get to vote and participate in government. You are part of the chain of command with authority (and responsibility) increasing with time, experience and rank. In effect, your vote becomes proportional to your investment. You have input at all levels.
tonybgood
(218 posts)The class in basic training said specifically that you suspend your rights under the Constitution and agree to be governed by the UCMJ. As to the democracy in the military, I'm referring to the idea that you "vote" on your leaders and the orders you will obey. Your commanding officer (in your unit) is appointed, not elected. Only the civilian chain-of-command is elected.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)He didn't. On Facebook, he declared he would not follow any orders from Obama. When caught, he "clarified" his statement claiming he only meant unlawful orders - which doesn't make much sense since he's not supposed to obey unlawful orders anyway. There's no need to announce it.
However, that wasn't the only place he was spouting off. He was a meteorologist, and on an internal DoD meteorologists forum:
That's going over the line, around the world and back over the line a second time.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that you've worked at or have heard of anyone working at that you get to trash the boss and keep your job? You don't like the head of your company you either leave or keeping your yap shut. Free speech my ass.
NutmegYankee
(16,298 posts)Order and discipline are vital to a military unit, and you are forbidden to disparage superior officers in your chain of command. This guy knew the rules, and broke them willingly.
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)in writing. if he had just said these things to other marines he would not be in this hot water.
proclaiming his positions in writing is what will clinch his removal from the marines.
NutmegYankee
(16,298 posts)Many soldiers have made offhanded remarks that were not acted upon after a short scolding or were brushed off as frustration with the current task, but this guy both wrote it down and went way overboard in his remarks.
mista411
(11 posts)If that is the case, he is getting what he asked for. He was insubordinate and disrespected his commander-in-chief, XO, CO and all the above. http://yurconnected.blogspot.com
frylock
(34,825 posts)no fucking thanks.
MD20
(123 posts)He will probably get his own show on Fox News and/or get a job with Blackwater as a hired mecenary. I'm not sure if a less than honorable discharge would prohibit a military contractor from hiring him. Its a shame but good ol' boys like Stein always have a way out. GRRRR!
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)iemitsu
(3,888 posts)by the stanford, florida police department.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Namvet67
(111 posts)MD20
(123 posts)Stein has a right to counsel but I wonder what officer in his right mind would defend such a breech of military discipline. Marine Capt James Baehr's statement is an indictment in and of itself. Now that his mindset is known to parallel that of Stein, I doubt if too many promotions will be coming his way.
groundloop
(12,134 posts)".... it was an honor to fight for a hero like Sgt. Stein and every other Marine's right to speak freely," Stein's defense attorney Marine Capt. Jame Baehr said."
A "hero", really? Granted, Stein had the right to a lawyer to defend him - but it sounds like he got a cheer-leading section as well.
After reading just the headline I thought "oh no, the military is trampling on some poor soldier". But after reading what Stein wrote it's pretty obvious that he went way over the line. You just can't come out and say that you're going to refuse to follow orders, not in the military or in any other place of employment. If I'd have written that about my companies CEO I'd be out on my ass in a heartbeat. And if anyone in the company had defended that me in such glowing terms they'd be out on their ass as well.
Dan
(4,008 posts)it is the duty of the person assigned to act in the best interest 'consistent with military law' to defend said offender. His comments were not harmful, Stein might have been a good soldier, but his actions were not consistent with military discipline and expectations. His legal attorney, the Captain, said nor did anything wrong. If he had failed to act in the best manner in attempting to defend the soldier then he would have been subject to military discipline. My thoughts.
modrepub
(3,594 posts)Wonder when the right will get tired of him and dump him.
BeyondGeography
(39,958 posts)marshall gaines
(347 posts)he'll be in the northwest soon preparing for armageddon...race war
qb
(5,924 posts)The two most clear directives I recall from my military service:
1. Do as you're told.
2. Respect your superiors.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)dirtbag.
Rhiannon12866
(220,128 posts)That's a firing offense on most jobs and this was an egregious and disrespectful insult to this Marine's Commander in Chief...
Liber-AL
(71 posts)I guess those SGT stripes are history!
MADem
(135,425 posts)He's getting a richly deserved OTH on his 214, too. Serves the idiot right--I could see giving a little education to a nitwit in boot camp, but this guy had no excuse for his stupidity.
The judge's ruling reaffirmed a military hearing earlier this month in which a military board has recommended Stein's dismissal. In that hearing, the government submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on the "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," the prosecutor said.
The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief.
Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party...
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0425/Marine-discharged-for-slamming-Obama-on-Facebook
Pop, grab the butter, the toast is done...!