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maced666

(771 posts)
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:34 PM Nov 2014

Iran dog owners could face 74 lashes

Source: Sky news

Dog owners in Iran could face up to 74 lashes, just for keeping them in their home or taking them out for walks.

A draft law proposed by 32 members of parliament would also bring in heavy fines for those convicted of owning the animals, according to Iran's Shargh newspaper.


Read more: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/iranian-dog-owners-could-face-74-lashes-110422656.html



Wtf...
72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Iran dog owners could face 74 lashes (Original Post) maced666 Nov 2014 OP
wow! WhiteTara Nov 2014 #1
Hopefully it won't pass? maced666 Nov 2014 #3
That made me look too. WhiteTara Nov 2014 #8
House Cat Owners Yes, Dog Owners No PNW_Dem Nov 2014 #12
My two cats are indoor cats leftynyc Nov 2014 #15
Eye Lashes PNW_Dem Nov 2014 #18
No - sorry leftynyc Nov 2014 #20
No -- NOT declawed. That is torture. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #21
are those little rubber things you glue on the nails acceptable? hollysmom Nov 2014 #26
I was faced with a choice declaw my two cats or euthanize Leontius Nov 2014 #30
Oh FFS. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #19
must agree. nt navarth Nov 2014 #38
I am not a cat hater. I am a bird lover. PNW_Dem Nov 2014 #48
anthropomorphizing Ned Flanders Nov 2014 #55
Bull. I have three (indoor only) cats and Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #62
The dog would probably just eat you. I think I'd rather have the dog, but both will find you a tasty chrisa Nov 2014 #64
Me, too. hamsterjill Nov 2014 #66
Yeah, I can't. crim son Nov 2014 #47
Don't they know raising a dog teaches a child responsibility and kindness. It's proven. zonkers Nov 2014 #2
And love....compassion... maced666 Nov 2014 #5
Love and COMPASSION? get the red out Nov 2014 #34
Its because dogs are considered unclean animals christx30 Nov 2014 #11
Except the leftynyc Nov 2014 #16
Very true. And we need to increase voter turnout christx30 Nov 2014 #23
I hear you there leftynyc Nov 2014 #24
Dogs are unclean. Mz Pip Nov 2014 #22
not mine, she licks her paws and washs her face like a cat and won't sit in dirt, when hollysmom Nov 2014 #27
It's because the "angel" that came to Mohammad get the red out Nov 2014 #32
Never heard this before. So that's plenty of evidence it wasn't really an angel. rwsanders Nov 2014 #52
Watch out Dopers_Greed Nov 2014 #28
I'm comfortable with that. christx30 Nov 2014 #29
Well it's also because dog ownership is considered a decadent western influence (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #60
stupid country samsingh Nov 2014 #4
Why??? I didn't think other countries could be stupider than we are adigal Nov 2014 #6
More proof that Islam is a religion of peace Android3.14 Nov 2014 #7
Absolutely!!!! get the red out Nov 2014 #33
" More proof that Islam is a religion of peace" Rhinodawg Nov 2014 #53
God will surely reward them for their intolerance of dogs paper boy Nov 2014 #9
The more extreme end of Islam don't consider dogs to be "clean" rocktivity Nov 2014 #10
The two are not separable skepticscott Nov 2014 #25
Time for a Million Dog March on the Iranian parliament KamaAina Nov 2014 #13
Time to air-drop a ton of these on them: Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2014 #14
Fuck religion, the scourge of humanity -- and animals. Arugula Latte Nov 2014 #17
It seems there are different views and different interpretations. CJCRANE Nov 2014 #31
So what the Iranian parliament is doing here isn't even necessarily correct per their religion. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #69
The Prophet was bitten by a dog centuries ago Zorro Nov 2014 #35
I know that's a joke but if you read the link in my previous post... CJCRANE Nov 2014 #36
Okay this is ridiculous shenmue Nov 2014 #37
now THAT navarth Nov 2014 #39
Thanks shenmue Nov 2014 #41
My response, in the vernacular, would be navarth Nov 2014 #40
Clearly the lawmakers are being pressured by this mullah: Guy Whitey Corngood Nov 2014 #42
If you don't feed him on time you might lose your head... nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #70
This belief is causing problems elsewhere: kiva Nov 2014 #43
The horror of factory farming in this country is infinitely more shocking CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #44
As far as Iran goes we have no moral high ground period, we dug the hole they are forced to live in. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #58
WTF is right. SoapBox Nov 2014 #45
Torture for morality! Orsino Nov 2014 #46
In the event of a zombie apocalypse... McCamy Taylor Nov 2014 #49
A bunch of crazed psychos killing christx30 Nov 2014 #56
So .. Lenomsky Nov 2014 #50
Islam explicitly dictates that dogs should be treated kindly CrawlingChaos Nov 2014 #59
abusers, hate everything their targets love Sunlei Nov 2014 #51
That would be only 296 lashes for my former neighbor, for his 4 attack dogs. candelista Nov 2014 #54
Dogs probably don't belong in cities. Irresponsible dog owners far out weigh responsible ones. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #57
Some of the Hindu nationalist groups in India are agitating against dog ownership too Recursion Nov 2014 #61
The crux of the problem here will always be religion. chrisa Nov 2014 #63
Eh.. this one is more nationalism Recursion Nov 2014 #65
I'm not sure it's religion. hughee99 Nov 2014 #67
This is cultural more then religous happyslug Nov 2014 #68
More religious absurdity. DeSwiss Nov 2014 #71
These Mullahs don't sound cool to hang out. nilesobek Nov 2014 #72

WhiteTara

(31,230 posts)
8. That made me look too.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:44 PM
Nov 2014

Who would even propose that? Off topic, I wonder when the pukes will put public beatings into the law.

PNW_Dem

(119 posts)
12. House Cat Owners Yes, Dog Owners No
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:56 PM
Nov 2014

I could see doing this for house cat owners, considering the environmental damage that those little demons cause. Once again, they are way off the mark.

Cats kill up to 3.7B birds annually

PNW_Dem

(119 posts)
18. Eye Lashes
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:11 PM
Nov 2014

Whether or not you wear fake eye lashes is not up to me

However, very cool that you keep your cats indoors. I wish more folks would acknowledge the facts about song bird extinction and either keep their house cats indoors or get the declawed.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
20. No - sorry
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:13 PM
Nov 2014

you lost me with declawing. All you're doing is basically cutting off their fingers and leaving them defenseless if they happen to get outdoors. My vet wont even do it.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
21. No -- NOT declawed. That is torture.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:14 PM
Nov 2014

Why don't you just go chop your fingers off at the knuckles? That's a similar suggestion.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
26. are those little rubber things you glue on the nails acceptable?
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:45 PM
Nov 2014

just curious. I have a dog and it is a mouser - so it is a working dog or would be if I rented her out. would that be a pet or an income?

 

Leontius

(2,270 posts)
30. I was faced with a choice declaw my two cats or euthanize
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:30 PM
Nov 2014

Adoption slim to none chance or shelter which would be euthanize around here.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
19. Oh FFS.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:13 PM
Nov 2014

They're not little demons, they're animals just like humans are. And talk about an animal that causes destruction on a mass scale -- birds, oceans, air, water, you name it -- that would be the human animal.

I'm so sick of the cat haters spewing their stupid bile all the time.

PNW_Dem

(119 posts)
48. I am not a cat hater. I am a bird lover.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 10:03 PM
Nov 2014

I am not a cat hater. I am a bird lover and song birds are going extinct in many parts of the country. The main cause, by far, is domesticated cats (aka house cats). Instead of whining like a Republican and pointing fingers, take responsibility for your actions if you are a cat owner. It’s not a made up fact, it real that house cats kill over one billion birds per year in the US which is far more (3x more) than any other cause (hunting, wind turbines, lighted buildings, etc).

 

Ned Flanders

(233 posts)
55. anthropomorphizing
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 12:50 PM
Nov 2014

If your cat were bigger than you, it would probably like to play with you like it plays with birds and other small creatures. That is the difference between cats and dogs.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
62. Bull. I have three (indoor only) cats and
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:09 PM
Nov 2014

they snuggle up to me at every opportunity. They keep me warm and toasty at night. One rides around on my shoulder.

Dogs are the ones who can and occasionally do attack (and sometimes) kill people. I'm not a dog person but I don't go around posting anti-dog stuff.

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
64. The dog would probably just eat you. I think I'd rather have the dog, but both will find you a tasty
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:42 PM
Nov 2014

snack if small enough. The dog wouldn't torture you before disemboweling you, though, which is a slight benefit there.

My dog loves trying to eat mice, squirrels, rabbits, birds, etc.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
11. Its because dogs are considered unclean animals
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:55 PM
Nov 2014

in Islam. And everything else on the planet takes a backseat to their invisible sky fairy in that part of the world. Love, compassion, responsibility do not matter, as long as they think their imaginary friend is happy. Not much different from the "God hates f*gs" people here.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
16. Except the
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:05 PM
Nov 2014

G-d hates fags people aren't in government and I'm unaware of anyone in our government putting forth a law that could be punishable with whipping the skin off someone's back. Except for that - exactly the same.

Mz Pip

(28,391 posts)
22. Dogs are unclean.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:20 PM
Nov 2014

Good grief, so what? That's why they get baths. They are messy creatures who like to roll in mud, crap, dead fish. They are doing what comes naturally to them. If the invisible sky fairy wanted them to be clean, he would have made them cats.

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
27. not mine, she licks her paws and washs her face like a cat and won't sit in dirt, when
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:49 PM
Nov 2014

we go to the dog park, she stands around and whines when she gets tired, so I started bringing a pad for her to sit on. Some times she will sit on the table there if it is not covered in bird poop. Yes,I am stuck wit a clean freak dog. The only exception is the skunk stink when she chases the skunk away. She does whine about that too.

get the red out

(14,001 posts)
32. It's because the "angel" that came to Mohammad
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:33 PM
Nov 2014

told him he wouldn't enter a house with a dog in it. So dogs are despised and often killed in many Muslim countries.

I love dogs, so I hate this, of course I've been told off for my love of dogs before.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
29. I'm comfortable with that.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:22 PM
Nov 2014

He'll weep at my bigotry, curse the heavens for having to put up with it, then go save Gotham City. All will be well.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
7. More proof that Islam is a religion of peace
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:42 PM
Nov 2014

I may be ethnocentric, but I'm not trying to create "good" governance by beating pet owners with 32 lashes.

rocktivity

(45,003 posts)
10. The more extreme end of Islam don't consider dogs to be "clean"
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:54 PM
Nov 2014

But I've always said that the problem with religious extremism isn't the religion, it's the extremism.


rocktivity

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
25. The two are not separable
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:36 PM
Nov 2014

The notion that a supreme being has dictated/mandated/forbidden something can't help but lead to what YOU label as "extremism". To the "extremists", what could be more sensible and natural than obeying what they believe to be the supreme lord of the universe, unfailingly and without compromise? To them, you putting your judgement ahead of god's is the crazy behavior.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
13. Time for a Million Dog March on the Iranian parliament
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:57 PM
Nov 2014

hopefully with plenty of Rottweilers, German shepherds, and of course, pit bulls.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
31. It seems there are different views and different interpretations.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:31 PM
Nov 2014

As I try to do in most things, I thought I'd check for myself. Here are some excerpts from Wikipedia:

Dogs in the Qurʼān

Trained hunting dogs and the dog of the Companions of the Cave are described in a positive light, and the companionship of these dogs is mentioned with approval. The Qurʼān thus contains not even a hint of the condemnation of dogs found in certain ḥadīths.


Dogs in ḥadīths
A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that.

The majority of Muslim jurists consider dogs to be ritually unclean, though jurists from the Sunni Maliki school disagree. However, outside their ritual uncleanness, Islamic fatāwā, or rulings, enjoin that dogs be treated kindly or else be freed.


Muslims generally cast dogs in a negative light because of their ritual impurity. The story of the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus in the Qur'an (and also the role of the dog in early Christianity) is one of the striking exceptions.Though dogs are not recommended as pets, they are allowed to be kept, especially if used for work and protection, such as guarding the house or farm, or when used for hunting purposes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_animals#Views_regarding_particular_animals

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
45. WTF is right.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 07:13 PM
Nov 2014

I say, lash the assholes that would shit like this up.

What stupid fucking uneducated backwards idiots...the dogs have 10 times the brains of these freaks.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
56. A bunch of crazed psychos killing
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 04:40 PM
Nov 2014

those that are not like them? How would you tell the difference from the zombie apocalypse?

Lenomsky

(340 posts)
50. So ..
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 10:22 AM
Nov 2014

Police, farmers and hunters with working dogs would be exempt from the penalties.

Unclean dogs are ok if they have employment but I bet they get the bullet when they retire.

Shocking innit!

 

candelista

(1,986 posts)
54. That would be only 296 lashes for my former neighbor, for his 4 attack dogs.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 12:34 PM
Nov 2014

Not enough. Can't sharia law do better?

Exultant Democracy

(6,597 posts)
57. Dogs probably don't belong in cities. Irresponsible dog owners far out weigh responsible ones.
Sat Nov 8, 2014, 04:51 PM
Nov 2014

The is an elementary school in a city I used to live in that had to shut down outdoor recess because of all the shit all over the playground.

That being said no one deserves to be lashed, not the owners or the dogs. Even when they shit all over a children's playground.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
61. Some of the Hindu nationalist groups in India are agitating against dog ownership too
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 07:43 AM
Nov 2014

I think the underlying issue in both cases is that it's seen as a decadent western influence.

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
63. The crux of the problem here will always be religion.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:38 PM
Nov 2014

In both instances, it allows people to turn their brains off and justify inhumanity.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
67. I'm not sure it's religion.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:18 PM
Nov 2014

The problem isn't the religion. If people of a religion don't like dogs, they shouldn't get one. The problem is the merger of religion and government where religious beliefs are being dictated as rules everyone has to follow. I'm sure there are many people in the US that think dogs are unclean, but until politicians start taking that as a call to action, I don't see this as a real problem.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
68. This is cultural more then religous
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:20 PM
Nov 2014

Arabs have always had a bad view of dogs, mostly because Dogs and Jackals are often interchangeable in much of the Arab World.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackal

Mostly this has to do with the Golden Jackel:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_jackal

Like Coyotes, Jackals have been expanding into areas cleared of Wolves:




There is a group who believe the dog is descendant from the Jackal (Wolf to Jackal to dog, as opposed Wolf to Dog) do to several features that jackals and dogs have and wolves do not, these include (Charles Darwin was one such advocate):

1. lack of a tail scent gland
2. Round eyes
3. except when breed to be bigger or smaller, dogs tend to go to the 50 pound rage, the same as the Jackal.

One report indicate dogs and Wolfs separated about 135,000 years ago, about the time man shows up (Through some people have attacked that report, it is still considered within the range of the separation of Dog form Wolf). This does NOT mean man domesticated the dog 135,000 years ago, but that dogs somehow separated themselves from wolves, most likely by learning how to live around man. Actual domestication and breeding did not occur till either about 9000 years ago (Through one questionable report from the 1880s says 13,500 years ago).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

Paper on dogs separating from wolves 100,000 years ago:

http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/Raisor-PhD2004.pdf

This would be compatible with the separation of Jackals from Wolves. DNA studies have indicated dogs are closer to Wolves then Jackals, but if you look at those studies you see a presumption in favor of wolves which may explain the findings. Furthermore it involves certain presumptions that may NOT be correct (Which is also the reason people attack the 135,000 years ago DNA report).

I bring this up, for it is the Arabs (and people of India) that are the most anti-dog, and this anti-dog attitude is more cultural then religious. It predates Islam, Buddhism and even much of Hinduism. It goes to the tradition of leaving Jackals and dogs eat scraps off the street. The Golden Jackal is the Jackal that did that in most ancient Mid-East to India cities. Thus Jackals (and thus also dogs) are viewed as animals of the gutter and thus "unclean" in those regions.

Now, you must understand the term "unclean". "Unclean" does not mean an animal is dirty or filthy, but something to avoid. "Clean" animals was a term related to domesticated animals. Thus any wild animal would be unclean, and when it came to Jackals a lot of ancient people viewed them NOT as domesticated pets but animals that cleaned up the trash left over from dinner.

Once you get away from the area where the Jackal lives, this hatred of dogs tend to disappear. South of the Golden Jackal area you are in Sub Sahara Africa and they appear to have imported the Dog only in the last 2000 years (with some tribes in Southern Africa only getting dogs in the last 500 years). North of the area where the Jackal lives, it is to cold to keep dogs outside in winter. You have to give them cover for them to survive, Furthermore dogs could and have been used as objects to warm people up. Thus the tendency to have dogs in homes outside of the Middle East, North Africa and India.

Jackals, like Coyotes in the Great Plains, evolved in an area where food was scarce, so being large was a disadvantage. In the Great Plains, the wolves would follow the bison herd, thus the coyotes had to avoid such herds, but left the rest of the Great Plains to them. It appears Jackals did the same as the Coyote, evolved in the dry desert area which could NOT support large animals, but could support much smaller animals. Thus the Jackal territory tends to be in areas without wolves (Or on areas where the Wolf travels through but does NOT stay).

In urban areas of the Ancient World, the Jackal and wild dogs thrived by eating what people threw away. Thus jackals and dogs became to be known as "Unclean" beasts and disliked by people in that part of the world.

Please note, Muhammad is believed to keep some hunting dogs and shepherds always had dogs.
Thus the "Ban" on dogs was NOT that dogs were "bad" just "unclean" and should be kept out of one's home. Again tied in with the habits of the Jackal.

Furthermore, in the Koran, dogs are treated with respect. For example a dog protects some men while they sleep when they hide in a cave during the persecution of Roman Emperor Diocletian (The Wikipedia says Emperor Decius). The Koran retells a story that was at least 100 years old at the time the Koran was written:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sleepers#Qur.27anic_version

Now, in the Hadiths, which are considered LESS reliable than the Koran itself, do repeat anti-dog tracks, but you have to be careful, some Hadiths are respected by both Sunni and Shiites, some by Sunni only, other by Shiites only.

Since we are discussing Iran, which is Shiite, only the Shiite Hadiths are a factor in this case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Books

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Shia_books

There are 25,000 Hadiths and some conflict with one another (which is NOT unexpected, for each one is to be read as a whole NOT a word or line by itself). It is in the Hadiths you see the anti-dog rules, and in most cases reflect traditional Arab/Iranian/Indian hostilities to dog do to the existence in those areas of the Golden Jackal.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
72. These Mullahs don't sound cool to hang out.
Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:54 AM
Nov 2014

I suppose they would balk at smoking some honey oil with me. 74 lashes? Who picks these numbers?

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