Some Muslims Are Angry That ISIS Killed Kassig After He Had Converted

[Old Nick]

Source: Vocativ - News From The Deep Web

Peter Kassig, the American aid worker whom ISIS says it executed, had reportedly converted to Islam, which would make him off limits for other Muslims to kill

Author: Sarah Kaufman
Posted: 11/16/14 13:19 EST
Deep Web Reporting By: Saar Fresco

ISIS released a video Sunday in which it said it had beheaded U.S. aid worker Peter Kassig, and militants threatened to kill other U.S. citizens. But at the time of his alleged death, Peter Kassig called himself Abdul-Rahman Kassig and had converted to Islam, according to multiple reports.

For a Muslim, the killing of a fellow Muslim is one of the greatest sins. Some Muslims who believe Kassig was Abdul-Rahman Kassig when he was killed are upset by the report of his beheading.

An anonymous thread on 4chan called “Fuck ISIS” involved a heated (and very 4chan-like) debate about how Muslims could possibly continue to support ISIS after they killed a Muslim. The anonymous user who started the thread wrote Sunday:

I want to ask my other Muslimbros, especially those that supported ISIS until now, how can you continue to support these degenerates now that they have openly killed a convert to Islam? Are there any ISIS apologists who are going to justify this as okay? The Prophet was strictly against doing this. We are not allowed to judge other Muslims, even converts, even converts-of-convenience.

Read more: http://www.vocativ.com/world/isis-2/reaction-to-kassig-beheading/

---

Reminds me of an old Pogo line...

[CJCRANE]

1. ISIS will turn on each other eventually. They hate everything.

[riderinthestorm]

2. ISIS has made it very clear that they'll kill anyone who doesn't follow their version of Islam

Muslims have been killing each other since the split upon Muhammed's death.

Funny how NOW there's some push back?

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. Haven't they been killing other Muslims all along?

beheadings after beheadings en masse?

[Hoppy]

45. Shit, yea. You don't even have to waste time converting in order for these fuckwads to kill you.

[Blue_Tires]

51. Oh, yeah...

But ISIS only breaks into the news cycle when they execute 'foreign' (i.e., white) captives....

[freshwest]

63. Well, not quite. Obama got in the news over the slaughter of Ysildis in Sinjar.

For which he was called 'Muslin,' 'Crusader' and 'warmonger' from the 'opposing' sides. The Obama bashers are always united in that.

[Xithras]

54. According to ISIS and its supporters, the answer to that question would be NO.

This is something that a lot of westerners struggle with. The whole "Sunni/Shiite" identification thing is primarily used by OUTSIDERS. If you ask a conservative Shiite what his religion is, he'll say "Muslim". If you ask a conservative Sunni what his religion is, he'll say "Muslim". Islam is not like Christianity, where everyone recognizes that there are different denominations of the same faith. In Islam, the world is divided into Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Pagan, and Heretics/Apostates, and the two faiths believe that THEIR version of Islam is the one and true faith. Sunni's and Shiites each see themselves as practicing the "real Islam", and the other group as a bunch of apostates and heretics. And the Koran clearly says that apostates and heretics must be put to death. Because they claim to be establishing the state that Muhammed wanted, even those Sunni's who fight against them can be labeled as apostates and executed, because they were "fighting against Islam".

That's how ISIS justifies the mass execution of the Shiites, the Alawi, and even the Kurds, who have a lot of Sufi practices woven into their culture. Muslims aren't allowed to kill Muslims, but none of the people they are killing are Muslims.

That's also why the Kassig killing is such a big deal. Kassig was a Sunni Muslim, and met ISIS's list of what a "good Muslim" is. He also wasn't fighting against the Islamic State when he was captured and killed, but was actually fulfilling religious duties laid out by Muhammed himself. ISIS stated that they killed him anyway because he fought years ago in Iraq, but the Koran makes it clear that a Muslim cannot judge another like that. He had converted and repented, and that was it. Only God could judge him. Among the conservative Muslims who make up their base, ISIS just committed a huge crime. It claims that it's building an Islamic State, but is openly violating the very Islamic law its supporters want to see implemented.

[Comrade Grumpy]

4. ISIS kills Muslims by the thousands. And I don't know if this qualifies as LBN.

"Vocative - News from the Deep Web"?

And it's about "an anonymous thread on 4chan"?

[jtuck004]

5. That comment is not very subtle bigotry. There is a difference between ISIS and Muslims,

but this comment conflates them like some line from a common Teabagger. pamphlet

"Reminds me of an old Pogo line..." (In other words, "We have met the enemy and he is us" - got it).

It could go to a jury, but that wouldn't be very educational - people can have their say - or go at me :gulp:

Because I am often wrong. Feel free to tell me.

[customerserviceguy]

8. The implication from "Fuck ISIS"

is that it's worse that ISIS killed this man, rather than someone who did not submit at the point of a sword.

Yeah, they're all looking the same to me. Just get the hell out of their way, and let them go at it with the Saudis and the Iranian Shiites. I'll pop me some corn.

[CJCRANE]

6. "ISIS is not what you think it is".

That's what I'd say to the impressionable idiots attracted to it.

So much of this world's problems are caused by gullbile people unable to think for themselves.

[chrisa]

7. But it would be better if he weren't a Muslim?

It's okay to enslave, buy, sell, and rape women, torture and murder children execution style, torch entire villages that did nothing to them, and record cutting peoples' heads off, but killing another Muslim is the line in the sand? Really?

Even more ludicrous, ISIS has killed more Muslims than their enemies could ever have hundreds of times over.

[customerserviceguy]

9. With them, its not about religion

Its about which 'tribe' you belong to.

[no_hypocrisy]

11. ISIS reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition

with the purpose of purifying the religion with only their version of Islam.

[customerserviceguy]

13. I've used the analogy of the Protestant Reformation

and the carnage between various groups that labeled themselves "Christian" to compare to the violence within the Muslim world today. It made no sense for, say, the Chinese to insert themselves into it five centuries ago, it similarly makes no sense for us to ham-handedly think that we can go in there and play kindergarten cop with the warring sides.

[cosmicone]

22. But ... but ...

THAT is exactly what the prophet said.

It is okay to do whatever to non-Muslims but you dare not do any of that stuff to another Muslim.

The problem is that you can be a Muslim and a non-Muslim depending upon the eyes of the beholder. So Shias and Ahmadiyas are not Muslims to Sunnis and Sufi are not Muslims to Sunnis and Shias.

[chrisa]

34. Definitely. You can justify anything.

For example, "They do not believe (some arbitrary thing), and therefore they are not Muslims."

Just like the Nazis justifying the Holocaust by claiming Jews weren't people, I'm sure. Extremists are obsessed with categorization, and who is in vs. who is out.

[Shemp Howard]

10. Would they have been just as angry...

...if Kassig had been simply an innocent non-Muslim?

Perhaps I'm missing the point here. But, to me, the headline is saying something more ominous than originally intended.

(And yes, I know that the practice of ignoring innocents who are "different" is nothing new. Sadly, it occurs everywhere in the world.)

[StevieM]

14. Shame on you. It was wrong to kill him, regardless of his religion. (eom)

[NutmegYankee]

18. He said nothing bigoted.

Western society believes all are equal under the law, regardless of faith. Your first post could be read that killing someone of a specific faith was worse.

[StevieM]

38. Thank you for you supportive words. I didn't get here until after the post had been taken down.

What did he say to me?

[NutmegYankee]

40. I'll PM it to you.

[GGJohn]

20. You make the claim that it was a bigoted assumption?

Where is the bigotry?

[StevieM]

39. Could you tell me what he said to me? I didn't get here until after the post was removed. (eom)

[GGJohn]

41. He was claiming that you were making bigoted assumptions and then in another post,

he called another member a bigot, I alerted on it.

Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert

Mail Message
On Sun Nov 16, 2014, 02:45 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Of course not
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=945860

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Only 5 posts and already accusing a long time DU'er of bigotry.
MIRT, clean up on aisle 5

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sun Nov 16, 2014, 03:05 PM, and voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Personal attack--newbie needs to learn some manners
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Calling poster a bigot is a personal attack
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Thank you.

[cosmicone]

23. "Islamic Law"

[customerserviceguy]

15. So, if Kassig had remained a Christian

You'd be OK with this? You probably liked it when his family (and the other ones) grovelled in front of the caliphate, in a fruitless attempt to save the lives of people foolish enough to go over there.

[GGJohn]

16. All should be angry, not just Muslims.

Killing an innocent person, especially when they're on a humanitarian mission, is a sin, no matter what religion or lack thereof.

[CJCRANE]

21. Killing an innocent person is the same as killing the whole of humanity

according to the Koran.

The Prophet said that all people are the same, like the fingers of a hand.

The Koran and the Hadith also stress that guests should be protected and treaties respected.

Not forgetting the Constitution of Medina and the Koran say that non-muslims have rights in the Ummah and can follow their own religions without coercion ("there is no compulsion in religion&quot .

The Constitution of Medina also known as the Charter of Medina, was drafted by the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It constituted a formal agreement between Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Yathrib (later known as Medina), including Muslims, Jews, Christians and pagans. This constitution formed the basis of the first Islamic state. The document was created to bring to an end the bitter inter-tribal fighting between the clans of the Aws (Aus) and Khazraj within Medina. To this effect it instituted a number of rights and responsibilities for the Muslim, Jewish, Christian and pagan communities of Medina bringing them within the fold of one community—the Ummah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina

How can I as a layman know all this yet I rarely hear fundies talk about it?

[cosmicone]

24. Actions speak louder than words

Ever heard of "compassionate conservatism?"

[Rhinodawg]

49. That is so nice...

yet ignores the bloody, barbaric evil reality.


but that was nice to read.

[CJCRANE]

50. Few people follow their own rules.

[Quantess]

19. Oh, well if hadn't been a muslim it would've totally been okay!

Can we at least get muslims to agree on that?

[NutmegYankee]

27. The greeks had logic centuries before Islam came about.

In fact, the well recognized errors of logic were first identified by the Greeks and are usually known by the Roman Latin names when identified.

What the western world was gifted with was higher mathematics, like algebra. The Arabic numerals still in common use helped too.

[Quantess]

28. I wasn't attempting to be logical.

The idea that some muslims are upset because a convert to islam was assassinated... as though that was their only problem with it.

I believe you when you say you don't hold this viewpoint, but it sounds like some individuals of islamic faith do.

Logic has no part in any of this.

[Quantess]

30. How did I project my "anti islamic biotry" on to you?

If you can explain it to me, I will be that much better aware of how not to offend you or other muslims.

[Rhinodawg]

32. That disgusting anti-Islamic bigotry...

Is also called the truth.

[Quantess]

33. I was hoping he would specify what it was I said

that qualifies as bigotry.

[GGJohn]

35. Guess we'll never know, MIRT is on the job.

[Quantess]

36. Good riddance.

He was either a troll or a raging zealot.

[GGJohn]

37. He was a raging zealot troll.

[cosmicone]

26. Like I stated before

The world needs to unite and exterminate this militant creed with whatever force and weapons necessary.

If Islam is going to dominate the world, its only avenue should be using art, literature, math and science. I would rather see more Muslims like Salman Khan of "Khan Academy" who has made it his mission to teach math and science to millions rather than raping and torturing Yazidi women like Abu Bakr al Baghdadi has.

[roamer65]

42. The goal of ISIS is to start at least a regional war.

They can only further their ideology through hate, war and bloodshed. Since they live by the sword, they shall indeed die by it.

[demosincebirth]

43. Really, is that the only reason some muslims are angry?

[AngryOldDem]

65. This execution has been a tipping point, from what I've heard.

How that translates into any kind of resistance, I can't say.

[heaven05]

44. evil human beings

are destroying this world.

[leftyladyfrommo]

46. All people of all religions should be outraged by this behavior.

It's just evil and all people need to call it out.

[WhoWoodaKnew]

47. Those people are animals. ISIS that is.

[Rhinodawg]

48. Wow...to quote my man MR. BLUR

Ah Islam, the religion of peace and compassion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/121899843

[Bohunk68]

52. I am not so sure that he was killed for being a foreigner.

When I saw the videos of him on Al Jazeera America, I got the strong impression that he may very well have been gay. I say this as a gay person myself. ISIS is not friendly to gay people and it would make some sense as to why they would execute someone who had converted and was actually helping people. He was, by all records, a good person and seeking only to do good. Maybe his conversion was for real, but as a means of self-protection. We will never know for sure.

[cali]

53. he wasn't killed because they thought he was gay. He was killed because he was a western hostage

and for what it's worth, he was married to a woman(and divorced). Furthermore, they may have thought that this former army ranger was a CIA spy.

He became very interested and involved with Islam prior to his capture, though he didn't convert until after it.

[Bohunk68]

55. So, being married to a woman eliminates being gay?

Really? I guess I better tell my FWB that he isn't gay/bi.

[cali]

58. I thought I was clear about that not being the case when I wrote "for what that's worth"

following the info about him having been married. You appear to have a problem with reading comprehension.

[Bohunk68]

59. Projection much?

[Quantess]

62. That was rude and uncalled for.

You don't know the victim personally any more than this random DUer does.

[cali]

64. too bad. don't like it? I don't particularly care.

[Quantess]

67. I actually like it, which is why I responded!

You obviously like it a lot or you wouldn't have bothered to respond at all.

In any case, you don't know the victim any better than that other DUer, so stop being such a rude know-it-all.
No hold that-- don't stop. It obviously gives you joy.

[DonCoquixote]

56. The old "no true scotsman" fallacy

Religions hide behind "no true scotsman" which goes like "Not true sctosman would do THAT!" The fact is, Muslims, juts like Christians and (insert any religion here) are mostly populated with normal people who are just trying to live their lives, but all regligions have people in them that want to kill to gasin power, and sadly, the m,ajority of people in thiose religions are silent, because they know that the preachers that benfit from such killing will threaten them with Hell if they speak up.

[LanternWaste]

60. Nationalities and religions are oddly the same in that respect.

Nationalities and religions are oddly the same in that respect.

[mainer]

57. Many Muslims are angry at ISIS, and it's not just about Peter Kassig

I just returned from a business trip to Turkey, and again and again I heard how angry and disgusted Turks are about ISIS. "Killing innocent people is against Islamic law," was what they told me. "ISIS has done more to harm Islam than any other movement."

[hollowdweller]

61. Maybe he decided to be a Shiite

In that case it would be OK to kill him.

But it is funny in a sick way that the reason they are upset about killing him was that he had become Islamic...Like it would have been fine to kill an innocent man as long as he wasn't.

[ileus]

66. But they wouldn't have been bothered if he didn't???

Shouldn't all muslims be angry when innocent people are killed?