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Sat Dec 13, 2014, 08:24 PM

Sweden: Another near-miss in Baltic skies

Source: AP

COPENHAGEN, Denmark

For the second time this year, a Russian military aircraft turned off its transponders to avoid commercial radar and nearly collided with a passenger jet over Sweden, officials said Saturday.

"This is serious. This is inappropriate. This is outright dangerous when you turn off the transponder," Swedish Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist said on Swedish radio.

Officials at Russia's Ministry of Defense in Moscow were not immediately available to comment Saturday.

In recent months, Russia has increased its military presence in the Baltic Sea area, prompting some Swedish officials to compare it to the Cold War. In October, non-NATO Sweden launched its first submarine hunt since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Swedish authorities said a small, foreign submarine had entered its waters illegally but never found it and didn't disclose its nationality.

Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/world/article4464021.html

20 replies, 5182 views

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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sweden: Another near-miss in Baltic skies (Original post)
TexasTowelie Dec 2014 OP
Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #1
davidpdx Dec 2014 #2
Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #3
davidpdx Dec 2014 #4
Igel Dec 2014 #6
Igel Dec 2014 #7
ColesCountyDem Dec 2014 #5
okaawhatever Dec 2014 #8
DeSwiss Dec 2014 #9
mnhtnbb Dec 2014 #10
TomVilmer Dec 2014 #12
mnhtnbb Dec 2014 #13
TomVilmer Dec 2014 #14
hack89 Dec 2014 #15
Diclotican Dec 2014 #16
mnhtnbb Dec 2014 #17
Diclotican Dec 2014 #18
bemildred Dec 2014 #11
TomVilmer Dec 2014 #19
bemildred Dec 2014 #20

Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 08:34 PM

1. and NATO is the threat

 

I wonder what the Putin people will have to say about this behavior. I am sure they will have some excuse on how NATO caused it to happen.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:14 PM

2. Que the people that post the bullshit map of the alledged NATO bases

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:32 PM

3. next they will start

 

putting them in Moscow.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:43 PM

4. Well I don't know if you've seen my post in rebuttle to a few of them

I happen to live in South Korea and other than the US bases with the 28,500 soldiers all the other bases are Korean.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:49 PM

6. Perhaps.

Most of the maps I've seen like that abide by the "one drop" rule.

If one square inch of space is rented by the US or contracted out for US use or if one US military person is assigned to the base, whatever the purpose of that person, then the entire base is a "US military base."

Last one I looked at years ago had full-fledged military bases all over the place. Some of them had marines stationed there to protect US civilian personnel, some of them were satellite listening posts with minimal staffing. The difference between those "bases" and actual bases with large military contingents and materiel didn't matter--what mattered was making sure that the number of bases was as large as possible. Outrage first, understanding last.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:49 PM

7. To the West, "It never happened."

To his own people, and I quote, " ."

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Sat Dec 13, 2014, 09:44 PM

5. Comrade Major Putin's fan club chiming in in 5.. 4.. 3.. 2.... n/t

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:37 AM

8. Putin is out of control. No wonder he's been clamping down on the internet and press. nt

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Response to okaawhatever (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:41 AM

9. okaywhatever

 

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 08:30 AM

10. I shot these photos of (nuclear?) subs docked in St. Petersburg when we were there in May

on a Baltic cruise. They were right out in the open for anyone to see--as we cruised by going in/out of the harbor--
and it really seemed like the Russians were flaunting it.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 11:09 AM

12. They call it a Museum...

http://www.saint-petersburg.com/museums/c-189-submarine/
We even have one of those Russian Museum Subs in Denmark, as a gift. You could go here and get scared too...

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Response to TomVilmer (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 11:19 AM

13. Yeah, but what about the other 3 that are under repair?

Entirely different subs--maybe from the Trident era?--clearly not museums.

And one of their nuclear subs was parked at Jacksonville, Fl during Sandy. Nice of us to accommodate
them riding out the storm since they were off the coast listening in...so it seems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2228487/Russian-attack-sub-discovered-just-200-miles-East-Coast-given-safe-harbor-Hurricane-Sandy.html

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 12:01 PM

14. The worst ones are submerged!

Your other photos also looks like decommissioned subs to me. Old ones from Soviet time. Russia has hundreds of these old rusty ones parked everywhere, and only a few of them has mostly voluntary caretakers keeping them alive for fun.

The very worst place are at the Barents Sea, where many of the nuclear ones has just been cut in half, and the reactor core just left at the bottom of the sea up there.
http://bellona.org/?s=submarine
That is real stuff to be scared of.

Remember that Russian only uses less than ten percent of what NATO spends on the military, and that was before they lost the main part of income from their oil, on top of the international sanctions. Russia are lacking money for everything.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:03 PM

15. Ever been to Norfolk, San Diego or Pearl Harbor?

Here is a news flash - not only are navy ships hard to hide but if you happen to visit a naval base you are going to see all kinds of submarines.

Btw - the sub is non-nuclear. They are Kilo class diesel electric subs.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:08 PM

16. mnhtnbb

mnhtnbb

I do not think the two first pictures is about a nuclear submarine - they are to small - I suspect it to be one of the Kilos they have (Diesel-Electric) submarines - great for the service in shallow sea waters - but less perfect out in the ocean - even if it can endure long tracks under water... The Kilos is a dangerous submarine if used properly -but lack the advances the Type 212/214 have - who is german by the way - and recognized even by US as one of the most advanced Diesel-Electric submarine in the world..

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-class_submarine


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-189

The last one is in fact a Whiskey submarine - whose class was rather infamous when it hit solid rock at the coast of Sweden in 1981 - and was made famous by a new understanding of the worlds Whiskey on the rocks...

Diclotican

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Response to Diclotican (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:40 PM

17. Thanks for the identifications.

The point, though, is that all this stuff is not just 'history', since a Russian
sub was detected--and given shelter in Jacksonville, FL--as Hurricane Sandy was
approaching in 2012.

I am not surprised to see Putin ramping up surveillance activities.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 02:24 PM

18. mnhtnbb

mnhtnbb

I dosen't know a Russian Submarine was given shelter in Florida - before Sandy was approtatching in 2012 - I would have been imposible just a 25 years ago - that a russian submarine was given shelter in the US - just think about the nightmare for the russian navy - having one of its submarines in the US... I guess they still was not to happy about the posiblity of a russian sub in the US - but then it was when US and Russia was on better terms than today... I guess the captain onboard that submarine had to explain himself rather clearly when the submarine was coming home after that experience - after all - russians have a rather paranoid attitude about their submarines - they tend to like to have control over it all...

It are of no suprise for me that Putin is ramping up its survilance activities - both ways, to keep aircrew airworthy - to train new crews - and to gatter information from different sources about NATO, and Swedish Intel systems - I guess the same is happening in the shaddows against Russia too... After all - it is a tit for tat game - where both sides - or many sides are playing the same old game about not been couth in spying - but doing it all the time..

Diclotican

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 10:56 AM

11. Russia denies military aircraft 'near miss' with Swedish passenger jet

A war of words has erupted between Sweden and Russia over claims that Moscow’s military aircraft have been endangering civilian aircraft over the Baltic Sea for the second time this year.

Swedish military officials said on Saturday that a Russian reconnaissance plane that had switched off its transponders in order to avoid commercial radar came dangerously close to an airliner flying from Copenhagen to Pozan in Poland.

“This is serious. This is inappropriate. This is outright dangerous when you turn off the transponder,” Swedish Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist said on Swedish radio.

But the Russian ministry of defence hit back on Sunday, saying the aircraft was flying safety and never in danger of colliding with the airliner.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11292846/Russia-denies-military-aircraft-near-miss-with-Swedish-passenger-jet.html

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Response to bemildred (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 05:17 PM

19. Lots of 'near miss' situations - very few are with the Russians...

I live in Denmark, and nine times the last five years, Danish fighter jets has bothered civilian airliners. For example, in April 2012, two Danish F-16 fighter jets were 27 seconds from colliding with an SAS airliner. September 2012 a Danish F16 flew 240 meters from an civilian airliner heading for Tokyo. And in September 2013 an F-16 flew in a route only 70 meters below an civilian airliner heading for Sweden.

But the Russians also gives problem - especially for Sweden. The Swedes have published a picture where a Russian fighter plane are flying just ten meters from a Swedish aircraft, thereby making it difficult for the Swedish spy plane to make its scheduled observations at the Russian city of Kaliningrad. So rude!

In June two Polish military planes infringed Swedish airspace, but it happened by mistake and everyone has said sorry. And in July Sweden had to send their jets up against a penetrating spy plane. It turned out later to have a good excuse, as it was from USA and just had been forced to fly unannounced into hiding in Sweden, because Russian planes had teased it.

From all the above only the Russian encounters are blown high up in the media. There seems otherwise to be plenty to clean up in the military code of conduct in all countries, as I am sure the people in USA living close to military air bases are aware of. Of course Russia acts are silly, but our own military is answering in the most stupid way possible.

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Response to TomVilmer (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 14, 2014, 05:20 PM

20. Jet pilots tend to be high spirited, eh?

All that power ...

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