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(2,219 posts)
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 01:28 PM Jan 2015

French Premier Declares ‘War’ on Radical Islam as Paris Girds for Rally

Source: NYT--2 hours ago

Prime Minister Manuel Valls declared Saturday that France was at war with radical Islam after the harrowing sieges that had led to the deaths of three gunmen and four hostages the day before, and as the authorities mounted a frantic hunt for a suspected accomplice.

“It is a war against terrorism, against jihadism, against radical Islam, against everything that is aimed at breaking fraternity, freedom, solidarity,” Mr. Valls said during a speech in Évry, south of Paris.

France remained on high alert a day after security forces killed Amedy Coulibaly, who the police said was responsible for the deaths of four hostages at a kosher supermarket near the Porte de Vincennes in eastern Paris on Friday, and Saïd and Chérif Kouachi, the brothers who had fatally shot 12 people on Wednesday in and around the offices of Charlie Hebdo, a satirical newspaper.

The government said it would put 500 additional troops on the streets over the weekend amid preparations for a giant unity rally in Paris on Sunday. A number of European officials said they would attend, including Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu of Turkey, the most prominent Muslim leader scheduled to be there. On Saturday, thousands of people marched in Paris, Toulouse and Nice in a show of solidarity, and rallies were held in places as far away as Madagascar and Bangui, Central African Republic.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/world/europe/paris-terrorist-attacks.html

French Premier Declares ‘War’ on Radical Islam as Paris Girds for Rally (Original Post) Rhinodawg Jan 2015 OP
kick 840high Jan 2015 #1
France Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #2
What is it that you would like to see happen? Ideally? JonLP24 Jan 2015 #35
War. Yeah. Maybe one day we can try Peace. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #3
Not yet, but may still if the revenge minded have their way also. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #4
Yup. The world is a big playground with bullies and victims and suckers and... NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #5
A Bible verse too ChazII Jan 2015 #20
What do you think they wanted? oberliner Jan 2015 #6
Read what Juan Cole said about that, about motive for attacking the satirists: NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #8
I think that gives them way more credit than they deserve oberliner Jan 2015 #10
Some of the comments say the same thing as you do. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #11
You may be right oberliner Jan 2015 #13
"a lot of planning and resources" brooklynite Jan 2015 #14
The leader of Hamas condemned the attacks, condemned the attackers as usurpers of Islam. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #21
That's good, and that's true. (nt) NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #22
think outside the box a little man... politicman Jan 2015 #26
If you say so oberliner Jan 2015 #28
haha politicman Jan 2015 #29
I agree with you leftynyc Jan 2015 #37
Since the kosher deli attack occurred on Jan 8 brentspeak Jan 2015 #40
It's now January 12 leftynyc Jan 2015 #41
Why on earth are you surprised? Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #42
No - not surprised in the slightest leftynyc Jan 2015 #43
What they wanted? tavernier Jan 2015 #38
700,000 people rally in France in wake of terrorist attacks Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #7
Oh this should be interesting watching Fox News trumpeting a French Priemer underpants Jan 2015 #9
The HIT LIST Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #12
Guessing the women didn't have photos because they're not wearing burkas? brooklynite Jan 2015 #15
Good pick up. Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #23
Crimes against Islam OnePercentDem Jan 2015 #17
All talkers? What about Bush and Cheney? They killed lots of Muslims. Why did they get a pass? freshwest Jan 2015 #33
This attach was an awakening OnePercentDem Jan 2015 #16
Really??? politicman Jan 2015 #27
You're also leaving out the entire Arabian peninsula JonLP24 Jan 2015 #36
"The Power of Nightmares." Again. PSPS Jan 2015 #18
"A war against terrorism". CJCRANE Jan 2015 #19
Religious wars grind on... blkmusclmachine Jan 2015 #24
How important is a 'Premier.' Is he like a Senator compared to the President? freshwest Jan 2015 #25
He's the Prime Minister. nt CJCRANE Jan 2015 #30
So he's an important figure over there, I guess. I still haven't grasped why they need a prez and PM freshwest Jan 2015 #31
It's roughly equivalent to Speaker of the House, so he's the French Boehner, so to speak. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #32
France is a little late to the "War on Terror" party JonLP24 Jan 2015 #34
Clash of Civilizations is the Goal of All Extremists: Two Sides of the Same Coin McKim Jan 2015 #39


(29,322 posts)
35. What is it that you would like to see happen? Ideally?
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 06:08 AM
Jan 2015

I'm guessing that is a 'coalition of the willing'

My next question is why is US included? Are they still allies to Saudi Arabia?

Witness: Convicted Saudi blogger flogged in public 50 times

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates

A Saudi blogger convicted of insulting Islam was brought after Friday prayers to a public square in the port city of Jiddah and flogged 50 times before hundreds of spectators, a witness to the lashing said.

The witness said Raif Badawi's feet and hands were shackled during the flogging but his face was visible. He remained silent and did not cry out, said the witness, who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity fearing government reprisal.

Badawi was sentenced last May to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes. He had criticized Saudi Arabia's powerful clerics on a liberal blog he founded. The blog has since been shut down. He was also ordered to pay a fine of 1 million riyals or about $266,600.

Rights activists say Saudi authorities are using Badawi's case as a warning to others who think to criticize the kingdom's powerful religious establishment from which the ruling family partly derives its authority.

London-based Amnesty International said he would receive 50 lashes once a week for 20 weeks. Saudi Arabia's close ally, the United States, had called on authorities to cancel the punishment.


Badawi has been held since mid-2012 after he founded the Free Saudi Liberals blog. He used the blog to criticize the kingdom's influential clerics who follow a strict and ultraconservative interpretation of Islam known as Wahhabism, which originated in Saudi Arabia.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/article5679948.html#storylink=cpy

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
4. Not yet, but may still if the revenge minded have their way also.
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 01:45 PM
Jan 2015

"Vengeance is MINE, sayeth the Lord". Or is it?



(68,644 posts)
5. Yup. The world is a big playground with bullies and victims and suckers and...
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 01:47 PM
Jan 2015

...the only difference is in the numbers and the size and strength of the weapons.

The behaviors are all the same, primal and human and driven by fear.

Very predictable, all of this.



(68,644 posts)
8. Read what Juan Cole said about that, about motive for attacking the satirists:
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 01:57 PM
Jan 2015

Juan Cole has some insightful words on the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris.

As he points out, the shooters were neither "attacking free speech" nor "defending Mohammed"; they were using a time-honored tactic of radical extremists (of all stripes): "sharpening the contradictions," hoping to provoke an overreaction that would lead to repression and persecution of Muslims in general -- thus helping the extremists recruit new members.

This is what bin Laden did with such spectacular success with 9/11: provoking an endless global war, with Western "interventions" and "targeted assassinations" and drone strikes that have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people -- all of which, as our own security services tell us, have fed the flames of extremism and made the situation worse.



(58,724 posts)
10. I think that gives them way more credit than they deserve
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 02:03 PM
Jan 2015

I find it very hard to believe that these killers thought through the geo-political implications of their actions in the way Juan Cole ascribes.

It seems more logical that they were simply taught since birth to believe that a depiction of the prophet is a serious insult to their faith and one that should be punishable by death.

I think that the cartoons in Charlie Hedbo were deemed especially offensive not only because they depicted the prophet but because they did so in an obscene way.

Thus, it would be an act of heroism to kill those responsible for what they perceive to be a serious evil and that they would be rewarded in the afterlife for their actions in the name of their faith.



(68,644 posts)
11. Some of the comments say the same thing as you do.
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 02:09 PM
Jan 2015

I'm not sure, but such an act requires a lot of planning and resources, I rather doubt that it was merely retribution without some more complex rationale.

Trying to keep an open mind about it.

The Muslim world has long had to fight Western exploitation and insult, these days much of it has to do with resources, all of it coupled with centuries of grief over religious differences.

I agree with you about the obscenity of the cartoons and how that might have put it over the top.

The publisher was able to run more successful campaigns with less vulgar depictions.



(58,724 posts)
13. You may be right
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 03:03 PM
Jan 2015

I am trying to keep an open mind as well. However, I do not think it is reasonable to say that Islam had nothing to do with this. Just as I don't think it's reasonable to say that Islam itself is entirely to blame. I think the doctrine of the religion (much like the doctrine of Judaism or Christianity) if followed rigidly according to its holy texts plays some role in all of this.

If the Bible and Koran specifically and explicitly forbade killing another human being for any reason then I think we'd have a lot less killing in the name of religion. Instead those books do prescribe certain situation where killing is acceptable, and in some cases encouraged.


(91,755 posts)
14. "a lot of planning and resources"
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 03:21 PM
Jan 2015

not, apparently including a car with a full tank of gas (which would have been enough to get them across the border) and and escape route.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
21. The leader of Hamas condemned the attacks, condemned the attackers as usurpers of Islam.
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 05:05 PM
Jan 2015

They are not Muslims, these terrorists, they are as much as the KKK are Christians.

"I am KKK also", if they were attacked how many would rise up to say so?



(710 posts)
26. think outside the box a little man...
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 11:39 PM
Jan 2015

These killers probably weren't as smart as to think of the geo-political implications of their actions, but these killers were just pawns in the hands of the guys that are smart enough to think of the geo-political implications of such actions.

These killers didn't just wake up one day and decide that they would attack the magazine years after the fact for something they overlooked at the time, these killers had to have someone brainwashing them into believing that such actions were serving a higher purpose.

And it is these guys in the background, the guys that recruit and brainwashed terrorists, the guys that finance and supply terrorists, the ones that most of the time pick out targets for terrorists, it is these guys that want to cause geo-political implications because as a result of those implications, these guys have a bigger pool to recruit from.

So now, if more Muslims in France and western countries start believing that the western world is at war with Islam in general, then more of these Muslims can be easily recruited into the terrorist ranks.

Understand now?



(58,724 posts)
28. If you say so
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 11:53 PM
Jan 2015

For some people there are always mysterious "guys in the background" controlling everything and brainwashing people and so forth.

Another possibility is that these cartoons have always angered them and they finally took it upon themselves to exact revenge against the magazine for defaming the prophet.

Since they are dead, we'll never actually know (although you seem to believe you do).



(710 posts)
29. haha
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 12:16 AM
Jan 2015

Oh, and they just happened to travel to Yemen to get training all on their own?

They just happened to have had contact with terrorist groups in Yemen because they bumped into them somehow one one?

They just happened to wake up one day and find a way to get hold of automatic weapons in a country like France where guns are outlawed?

One of the brothers just happened to wake up one day and decide that the life he was living of trying to become a rap star and having girlfriend's, etc, was suddenly wrong and the only way that he could make up for his sins was to attack a magazine for something they printed years earlier and then die as a martyr.

They did all that on their own with no on behind the scenes encouraging them, brainwashing them, training them, supply them weapons, etc..

Thanks I think I understand you



(26,060 posts)
37. I agree with you
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 06:14 AM
Jan 2015

More credit than they deserve. This magazine has been firebombed already for their depiction of the prophet. How typical he completely ignores the deaths of the Jews at the kosher grocery. Cole's column is self-serving bullshit so if there is any crackdown on jihadists at all that in any way spills over he can whine about "see, I told you so". Spit.


(18,290 posts)
40. Since the kosher deli attack occurred on Jan 8
Mon Jan 12, 2015, 09:12 AM
Jan 2015

Last edited Mon Jan 12, 2015, 03:14 PM - Edit history (1)

And Cole had his article published on the Jan 7, it would be sort of difficult for his article to have mentioned it.



(26,060 posts)
41. It's now January 12
Mon Jan 12, 2015, 09:14 AM
Jan 2015

Where is his condemnation? No, I just saw his latest and he's whining about how the Marie le Pen's of Europe are looking at more support given the attack. Still nothing about the Jews killed - to the surprise of absolutely nobody.



(26,060 posts)
43. No - not surprised in the slightest
Mon Jan 12, 2015, 02:07 PM
Jan 2015

The same way glenn greenwald has nothing to say about it. Hacks, both of them.


(11,997 posts)
38. What they wanted?
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 06:44 AM
Jan 2015


They had no other skills or talent to make a mark in life, so all they needed was a cause and a gun.


(180,164 posts)
9. Oh this should be interesting watching Fox News trumpeting a French Priemer
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 01:58 PM
Jan 2015

I think one of the themes will be "Valls has balls!!"



(79 posts)
17. Crimes against Islam
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 03:59 PM
Jan 2015

Might was well put anyone that wants free speech and freedom FROM RELIGION on that list as well.


(53,661 posts)
33. All talkers? What about Bush and Cheney? They killed lots of Muslims. Why did they get a pass?
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 04:41 AM
Jan 2015
Al Qaeda Source: AQAP Directed Paris Attack

By Jeremy Scahill - 09 Jan 2015

...Sheikh Usama (RA) said in his message to the West: If there is no check on the freedom of your words, then let your hearts be open to the freedom of our actions...

The source, who demanded anonymity because the group had not yet released an official statement, also told The Intercept that two images in the latest issue of its publication, Inspire, published in December, contained a clue foreshadowing the attack on Charlie Hebdo. One image (at right, click to enlarge) shows a Muslim kneeling in prayer with a cooking pot similar to the one used by the Boston marathon bombers. “If you have the knowledge and inspiration all that’s left is to take action.” On the page immediately below it is a picture of a French passport. Throughout the day, several AQAP members have been praising the attack on social media and discussion sites. An AQAP source pointed The Intercept to a recording they claim is Cherif Kouachi, one of the suspects, acknowledging that his trips to Yemen in 2011 were “financed” by U.S.-born radical imam Anwar al Awlaki and that he was sent to Yemen by AQAP...

The Charlie magazine team deserved what they got. Many warnings have been given before, but they were persistent. They had the freedom to use cartoons in their magazine, and we have the freedom to use bullets from our magazines. As the ‘Wanted List’ stated: A bullet a day, keeps the kaffir away. Yes, Charb is no more. The lions of Jihad have stood. The followers of Muhammad – peace be upon him – have never forgotten. As Sheikh Anwar Rahimahullah put it: The Dust Will Never Settle Down.

Do not look for links or affiliation with Jihadi fronts. It is enough they are Muslims. They are Mujahideen. This is the Jihad of the Ummah. So France, are you ready for more attacks; Weren’t you asked by Inspire Magazine immediately after the Wanted List...


There is a false equivalency by AQ on some cases there. And grievances about actions and not words. They appear to let neocons off the hook, though.



(79 posts)
16. This attach was an awakening
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 03:58 PM
Jan 2015

I believe people are tired of being bullied of the extremist. Maybe this is what the attackers wanted, but I doubt it will end they way they wanted.



(710 posts)
27. Really???
Sat Jan 10, 2015, 11:46 PM
Jan 2015

You really think that this particular attack is the one that will stop terrorism or slow it down or make people hate terrorists even more?

9/11 couldn't do that, London attacks couldn't do that, bali attacks couldn't do that, canade, Australia, etc, etc, yet you think that these Paris attacks are the awakening that will not end the way that the extremists want.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc, etc, all these wars were unable to even slow down terrorism, in fact, every action taken by western governments and western peoples since 9/11 has made terrorism worse in that sense that it has defragmented terrorism and now instead of having one organisational base like Bin Laden had in Afghanistan that canbe targeted, there are many many small bases everywhere.


(53,661 posts)
31. So he's an important figure over there, I guess. I still haven't grasped why they need a prez and PM
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 04:11 AM
Jan 2015

Britain has a parliamentary system with a prime minister, no prez. We have a prez, but no PM, as we don't have a parliament, obviously.

Russia has both, too. And the UK has a monarch like some of the other European nations do. Guessing the Premier or PM is closer to the electoral process that Hollande.

Looks iike he's pandering to the rightwing in France. I don't have any idea how this is going to shake out over there.

Thought it interesting that both Abbas and Netanyahu were there for the rally, though. And learned that France has the biggest Jewish and Muslim populations in Europe, IIRC.


(18,184 posts)
32. It's roughly equivalent to Speaker of the House, so he's the French Boehner, so to speak.
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 04:22 AM
Jan 2015

The French President is the Head of State, and the Prime Minister is the head of the government.

In Britain the monarch is the Head of State.


(2,412 posts)
39. Clash of Civilizations is the Goal of All Extremists: Two Sides of the Same Coin
Sun Jan 11, 2015, 09:02 AM
Jan 2015

Middle East Experts like Juan Cole and Mr. Lynch have said that the goal of the French extremists was to create a divide, a "clash of civilizations" to bring more Muslims to their side.

This is just like Bush saying: "You are either with us or against us". With a clash of civilizations the hate promoters on both sides win. In the US they get their wars, they get the oil lands and pipelines, they clean up at the stock market with war profits and they get people in the US frightened into voting conservative which gives them more power. In the Middle East the extremists get glory, power and more converts. Sadly it is the ordinary people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and here too in US who are suffering.

Buying into the "clash of civilizations" paradigm gives extremists more power. Don't buy into hate.

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