Sorry, did I invade your country? Putin doublespeak timeline

[MBS]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/09/05/the_art_of_doublespeak_a_timeline_of_vladimir_putin_s_excuses_and_evasions.html?

Running from Feb 26-August 28, the timeline of doublespeak/lies is also a useful summary of the confusing series of events since February. As the author, Emily Tamkin, wrote, the series of lies would be amusing were it not for the body count (not to mention the flagrant violation of international law. )

Look, Russia did have some legitimate interests (a high % of Russians, their naval base) in the Crimea. But the way to handle their concerns was back in December by -- hey, this is a concept -- talking it out, negotiating. (In fact, this is what Kerry was trying to finesse with Lavrov before the Crimea invasion). But Putin chose to invade instead, I think because ultimately it was never just about the Crimea, but really about keeping Ukraine in his sphere of political/economic influence, and about preventing the "germ" of democratic protest from migrating eastward. The "concerns" about Crimea could have been negotiated peacefully had Putin really been interested in negotiation.

PS Speaking of the Crimea: if anyone has rights to the Crimea, it's the Crimean Tatars, who, once again, have been screwed by the recent events.

Sorry, Did We Invade Your Country?
On Friday, a temporary cease-fire between Ukraine and the rebels went into effect. Minutes later, journalists received an email from the rebels referring to themselves as “Novorossiya” urging them to attend a press conference in Moscow explaining why Ukraine is breaking the cease-fire. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, meanwhile, issued a statement on why NATO is a threat to the peace process.Putin is a master of the art of changing the conversation. It takes a lot of skill to turn Russia’s support for Bashar al-Assad into a defense of international law. Or to justify the arrest of dissident rock musicians as a crackdown on anti-Semitism. But Russia’s escalating military involvement in Ukraine has provided an opportunity for Putin and his allies to elevate their excuses and obfuscations to a sort of art.

Some sample events on the author's timeline (see url for full list)

Feb. 28: Russia invades Crimea … sort of. With masked gunmen seizing key military installations throughout the region, Moscow denies launching a military offensive in the region. Meanwhile, Russian parliament considers a law that would make it easier for Russia to add to its territory, just in case a foreign country happens to “not have effective sovereign state authority” for some reason.
. . .
April 17: Putin finally admits that Russian troops were in Crimea, and adds that he hopes he does not need to use his Duma-given right to send Russian troops to eastern Ukraine (or, as he is now calling it, Novorossiya, or “New Russia”).
April 19: In April, “little green men”—masked fighters believed to be Russian special forces—begin appearing in Eastern Ukraine. Russia denies any connection.
April 23: Russia warns it will respond if its interests are attacked in Ukraine.
April 24: Putin warns that use of Ukrainian troops within Ukraine’s own territory will have consequences.
. .
Aug. 22: NATO says Russian troops have entered Ukraine. Despite satellite and photographic evidence, Russia denies it.
Aug. 26: After Ukraine captures a group of Russian soldiers on Ukrainian soil, the Russian military says they were there “by accident.”
Aug. 28: A separatist rebel leader says Russian soldiers are fighting in Ukraine but are doing so on their vacation.

[Historic NY]

1. Fighting while on vacation....

LOL, the dog ate my homework.

[MBS]

16. really lame, no?!

Hard for me to understand how anyone could believe lies like t his, not to mention how the perpetrators could actually expect anyone to believe them.

[davidpdx]

2. I keep losing track of the reasons for the invasion of Crimea and Ukraine

The "protection" of ethnic Russians, no it was the "fascist overthrow" of Ukraine, no it's the NATO bases surrounding Russia, no it's the greedy EU, no it's the evil empire the US, wait no it's the corporate media.

That's almost as many reasons as Bush gave for invading Iraq in 2003. It is a shame some on DU support Russia's invasion of the Ukraine.

[MBS]

18. I'm with you. n/t

[Duckhunter935]

26. changes every week

[Billy Budd]

29. its more shameful

To support the machinations and lies to demonize Russia on behalf of the US Military Industrial Complex Empire [MICE]

[davidpdx]

30. I don't support the military industrial complex, I oppose all war

including invasions by Russia. My point is the reason for that invasion has changed so many times that it parallels that of the excuse of going into Iraq. I guess if you can't see that, then you are blind.

[zeemike]

3. The US would have a leg to stand on if it were not for the hypocrisy.

The US invades countries that we have no interest in besides their resources and then get all righteous about Russia doing it in their own back yard.
All the while ignoring the shameful way we treat the world, and mostly people who don't speak our language and have no cultural ties to at all.
Physician heal thyself.

[Igel]

4. Sounds good.

Any physician with any ailment--this can include a weight problem, or smoking--should immediately do their patients a favor.

Go on vacation. Indefinitely. Immediately.

"Excuse me doctor, you don't have time to close that incision. You're overweight. The janitor can do it for you, but it's unethical and wrong for you to finish this operation."

"But, nurse, the janitor can't do it, and no other doctors are available. The patient will die."

"You're being a hypocrite, doctor, and what's more important--big picture things like life, or your personal hypocrisy?"

"Life?"

"You're wrong. It's your hypocrisy. If you've ever made a math mistake, you have no business condemning anybody else's mathematical errors, even if they crash the economy. If you've ever lied, you have no business condemning a lie. If you've never been drunk, you have no business condemning drunkeness. If you've ever avoided paying all the taxes you could have paid, you have no business condemning those who avoid taxes. If you've ever pushed a girl too far, or even referred to her in a sexist way when you were 15 or 16, you have no business condemning sexual assault. If you've ever eaten meat, you have no business condemning Dauhmer. You are not in perfect health, doctor, so therefore you cannot help anybody else until you both achieve perfect health and undergo extensive reeducation concerning your outlook on correcting others. Clear? Now drop the scalpel before you make a really serious moral error. Do the morally right thing--let the patient die from his appendicitis."

[zeemike]

5. So our invasion of two countries is no different than a math mistake?

While Russia in the Crimea is an outrage?...Russians have lived there for centuries.

Sorry but I don't buy the hate Putin bullshit...no different IMO than the hate Saddam that launched the trillion dollar war against him that killed hundreds of thousand and brought economic disaster to the US.

But I guess we have decided who the next enemy is and set the stage for more war and conflict even as our country goes to hell under our feet.

[Fred Sanders]

6. Bingo. Some recognize the propaganda, while most are its victims.

[Peacetrain]

10. Oh please.. sell that to someone else..

We made huge mistakes.. but we keep trying to correct ourselves.. When we screw up, I do not knock the Russians for pointing that out, or any other goverment or individual.. and guess what.. that road goes two ways.. and Putin and what he is doing is reprehensible..

[MBS]

19. yup, exactly.

We should be calling out lies and injustice wherever they occur, at home and abroad
The idea that, because someone in our country has made mistakes, we have no right to criticize others for anything, and that every tyrant, every other country should get a pass for their transgressions is just plain nuts.
And, yes, we DO keep trying to correct ourselves (at least when the right party is in control ); that is one of our country's greatest strengths.

[zeemike]

24. Keep trying to correct them?

Buy I suppose pointing to other countries as doing it?

If we were serious about correcting our mistakes we would have made peace with the world not war...action talks, bullshit walks.

[Historic NY]

28. But there was a “coalition” of the willing....

that signed onto it.

[MBS]

15. exactly.Thanks. n/t

[cheapdate]

25. Exactly. Newsflash : Everyone is a hypocrite.

[Fred Sanders]

7. The US claiming moral superiority in all things is laughably two faced and everyone else in the

world outside Fort America knows it.

[Peacetrain]

8. I had to pull the hip waders on to read this ..

So we made huge mistakes.. now we can't say anything while another world power wants to invade other countries..restrict rights to whole groups.. no we have to sit and watch it and never mutter a word.. because we are so so bad ourselves.. sell that to someone else.. that is the biggest load of whoo hockey ..

[Fred Sanders]

12. So what we fucked up so many times, we will do better next time? All righty then.....

[zeemike]

9. That is the truth.

We only fool ourselves.

[Fred Sanders]

13. Fools one can tolerated, so freaking many can not.

[JayhawkSD]

11. There were 40,000 Russian troops in Crimea

because Ukraine and Russia had a treaty which permitted them to be there, and they were there long before the Maidan revolution. Their role in the vote for independence was to keep the Ukranian forces in their barracks so that the Maidan government could not interfere with the vote. None of that constitutes an "invasion," by any definition of the term.

[newthinking]

17. I have also posted the history of the region that shows the narrative on Crimea to be an opportunist

lie. See below.

[geek tragedy]

23. .

It was Ukrainian territory. Using troops on someone else's soil to control that territory and impede their troops is an invasion, not even disputable.

And really, claiming that foreign troops were there to preserve the integrity of that sham vote?

Rt.com would be embarrassed to publish such nonsense.

[Duckhunter935]

27. The treaty or agreement said the

Russians could have bases, train in them or off them with the agreement of the Ukrainian government. It did not say they could leave those bases and seize Ukrainian facilities and bases. It also did not say they could sink ships blockading the Ukrainian navel vessels in port and then storming and seizing them also. That would have also been an act of war with that little blockade thing.

But I guess all of that is all well with you.

[newthinking]

14. *Ukraine* annexed Crimea and that has been fixed. You won't hear the truth because it does not fit

the narrative.

Please, research the history. The Crimean people always considered themselves part of Russia and as the discussions of the breakup of the Soviet Union were occurring they objected to being added to Ukraine. That is why it is called the "Autonomous Republic of Crimea", because the compromise was to give Crimea autonomy within Ukraine with it's own Constitution and parliament.
During the "Mafia" years in the 90s Ukraine overwrote the Crimean constitution and effectively "annexed" Crimea fully. Even at that time Crimea resisted but was unsuccessful.

Yes, Russia protected Crimea this winter during the process, but it was the Crimean parliament that asked for that protection and the elections, and the Crimean people are in favor of the world accepting the change (Pew Poll afterwards).

The narrative is really pretty dishonest around this and designed to insight hate and anger. Reject it because it is not true.

[MBS]

20. oh, please, spare me.

One could debate whether Crimea should be autonomous; or whether it was appropriate for Khrushchev to "give" Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954; or its national fate (autonomy, connection to Ukraine or to Russia) . One could debate which official languages should be recognized. One could debate the rights of the Crimean Tatars (the ones with the longest history in the Crimea, and whose rights have been almost forgotten in this uproar). One also debate whether that so-called "vote" this winter is representative of the people's will. These are legitimate questions.
But that's the thing: these questions are matters for negotiation, for debate, for discussion.; NOT for forcible takeover or invasion. In the 21st century, it's just not acceptable to willy-nilly annex chunks of neighboring countries, transgressing formal agreements and internationally recognized boundaries, without the permission of the country in question.

[newthinking]

22. But that is the thing, only the western narrative says it was forced, the same narrative that

makes many other false claims.

I watched with great interest what was happening in detail, in both western media and in Ukrainian (and Crimean) media, and it is only the false narrative that is trying to change the order of events. The Crimean Parliment made the first moves and the request. Crimean militia first started securing areas, it was several days later that they were reinforced by the Russian forces there.

But you will never hear that because the narrative wants to rewrite all the (very complex and fast moving) events of the last 9 months.

[PATRICK]

21. Putting all the wrongs into the right context

The "official" US response, along with Europe, and the narrative are dishonest and aiming for a wider dishonest conflict that only seems to be championing the semi fascist oligarchs not the people of the Ukraine- who do not want war at least. In the right context the trouble might not have devolved in the first place. The peaceful, productive settlement of borders and the fate of autonomous peoples and regions is a global benefit. Truth and mutual interest are the basis for the painful details.

Thanks to our blinkered media and persistent, unrepentant, some would say bloodily hypocritical foreign policy gamesmanship truth is a victim. It is up to the people on all sides to dig in their heels and back up out of this repulsive game. Of course the people do not possess any "official" pulpit, weapons, thugs or banking control. All world leaders are failures in their inability to "lead" in the right directions.

Newthinking is thinking about the truth. Taking sides in the counter productive foreign policy squabbles based on the propagabda is tolerating the bad behavior in the leadership playpen. In general these same issues bedevil the Basques, the Kurds, the Islamic sects, African tribes/nations, etc. Instead of a new world disorder where the elites keep peoples divided for the interests of the 1%(preferably white) people, when allowed to speak and share prefer get along and get to work. And that is one of the key ways human existence on this fragile biosphere might actually continue.