The Meme of “Russian Aggression”
The BBC's Drums of War
The Meme of Russian Aggression
by OLIVER TICKELL
Russian aggression is the BBCs meme of the day. I lost count of how many times the phrase popped up in the first 15 minutes of Radio 4s World at One programme, devoted entirely to the Russian problem but the theme was drummed in relentlessly.
The idea is that Russia presents a huge a growing threat to world peace and stability. Russian bombers are threatening the English Channel (albeit strictly from international airspace). Russia is an expansionist power attacking sovereign nations, Ukraine in particular. And watch it were next!
Commentators wheeled into the studio were unanimous in their views. NATO must stand up to the threat. Presient Vladimir Putin is a dangerous monster who refuses to abide by the rules of the international order. NATO countries must increase their defence spending to counter the Russian menace.
Not a single moderating voice was included in the discussion. No one to ask Jens Stoltenberg, Secretary General of NATO, if alliance aircraft ever fly close to Russias borders (they do). No one to point out that the real Ukrainian narrative in is not that of Russias annexation of Crimea but of NATOs US-led annexation of Ukraine itself.
No one to argue that Russias assimilation of Crimea was effected with hardly a shot being fired, backed by overwhelming support in a referendum which reflected the popular will and if youre in any doubt, just compare it to Israels ongoing and endlessly justified annexation of Palestine.
The lies are in what the media dont tell us
Continued:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/30/the-meme-of-russian-aggression/
Turbineguy
(37,293 posts)But if we ignore centuries of history, yes, perhaps they are being falsely accused.
salib
(2,116 posts)CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)both in Libya (coupled with Syria) and Ukraine.
The potential surplus from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is now wiped out and the war on terror and Cold war have been rebooted.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Which is why all of this started in the first place. So of course he, and by association, the 37 million Russian people, according to some, are the most hated, aggressive people in the world at the moment. It's pre-Iraq deja vu, or groundhog day, if you consider Libya or any other country not bowing down to the west.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)Now he's being blamed for anything the neo-cons can dream up and the media is spouting it constantly. They conveniently don't mention Peggy Noonan from America wanting to choose the Ukraine president.
Meanwhile our innocent politicians bombed the hell out of two countries knowing full well Saddam had nothing to do with 911 and the CIA was making big bucks off opium from Afghanistan but they won't mention that.
Of course we can go back to what we've done to South America but I don't have time.
hack89
(39,171 posts)ok.
polly7
(20,582 posts)The people voted, overwhelmingly to leave Ukraine. They were immediately threatened by the brutal coup-sponsored 'gov't' with the loss of their native language, what other fears do you think they might have had, a people predominantly of Russian culture suddenly confronted with that kind of hatred and threat???
The fascist right-wingers handed them to Russia on a silver platter ..... they went willingly.
There were picture after pictures of them lined up to vote, ordinary people wanting to get the hell of a place they were being treated as the enemy right from the start of the brutal coup.
?w=736&h=491&l=50&t=40
Two women hold flags reading "Crimea is with Russia" as people wait for the announcement of preliminary results of today's referendum on Lenin Square in the Crimean capital of SimferopolReuters
Crimea parliament has formally voted to declare independence from Ukraine following an overwhelming outcome from the referendum to secede from Kiev rule and join Russia, according to reports.
A formal application to join Russia was sent after 93% of Crimea residents reportedly voted in favour of the split, in a referendum that the US and the EU say violates the Ukrainian constitution and international law.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-crimea-votes-join-russia-eu-us-eye-sanctions-1440572
With Crimea's electorate composed mostly of ethnic Russians, the referendum was widely expected to support a split from Ukraine. While the Kiev government called the vote illegitimate and other countries saying they won't recognize the outcome, exit polls cited by officials reported that 93% of Crimean voters supported joining the Russian Federation. That number increased to 95% once half of the ballots were counted. As voting concluded, huge crowds gathered in the Crimean capital of Simferopol to celebrate the outcome.
Evgeny Feldman, a staff photographer for the Russian publication Novaya Gazeta, spent the day in Crimea's main cities, Simferopol and Sevastopol, as the vote progressed under the watchful eyes of masked soldiers aligned with Russia.
People celebrate in Lenin Square, in the Crimean capital of Simferopol, after a reported 95% of people voted to make the peninsula a part of Russia.
The crowd celebrates, waving Russian flags, in front of a statue of Lenin in Simferopol.
Local residents, including a police officer, show identification to get their ballots from election commission members in Simferopol.
A woman votes in Simferopol: Little tension could be seen in the voting booths, where most voters appeared to choose to make Crimea a part of Russia.
A Simferopol voter lets her son cast her ballot during the first hour of voting.
http://mashable.com/2014/03/16/crimea-votes-the-day-in-pictures/
hack89
(39,171 posts)Some people are easily confused by facts!
Crimeans understand that what is happening now in east Ukraine would have been their fate.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Eastern Ukraine is home to much of the countries' natural wealth - major coal deposits, fertile wheat and corn land ... Crimea has the same fertile soil, as well as a thriving tourist industry and quick access to the Mediterranean, Balkans and Middle East - and, Russia's Black Sea Fleet. Both are/were crucial to Ukraine's total wealth, so it's no wonder the new 'gov't' is fighting so hard to hold onto the east ........ despite the citizens living there not wanting the promised austerity under the IMF, having made their livings from these resources all their lives. I actually wonder if Ukraine will end up being divided up ...... neither side seems willing to compromise. It's horrible watching so many die.
Then there's the shale - Ukraine has the third largest shale reserves in the world, Chevron had just signed a 50 year deal to develop Ukraine's oil and gas weeks before the Maidan demonstrations began in Kiev, and Royal Dutch Shell in the east (both already accused of major human rights violations in Nigeria.) Nuland, after getting back from handing out her cookies to the demonstrators, urged Ukraine to sign a new deal with the IMF which would send a positive signal to private markets and would increase foreign direct investment that is so urgently needed in Ukraine. What a coincidence. Ukraine, economically, is/was? to be patterned after Greece, of all places.
Yes, the Crimean people were smart to vote themselves out of this mess.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)on the ballot
newthinking
(3,982 posts)which explains the reference to the previous Crimean constitution.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=113147
There were two options.
1. Become part of Russia
2. Remain in Ukraine under the previous Crimean constitution
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)The second asks: "Are you in favour of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?"
At first glance, the second option seems to offer the prospects of the peninsula remaining within Ukraine.
But the 1992 national blueprint - which was adopted soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then quickly abolished by the young post-Soviet Ukrainian state - is far from doing that.
This foresees giving Crimea all the qualities of an independent entity within Ukraine - but with the broad right to determine its own path and choose relations with whom it wants - including Russia.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/12/crimea-vote-join-russia-ballot-no-option_n_4947557.html
why did they include the part about the 1992 constitution?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)For the average person life in Crimea is pretty much as it was before *except* that Russia is pouring money into the region. Real estate has skyrocketed (not necessarily a great thing, but it was artificially depressed under the Ukrainian economy).
Pensions have been more than doubled. Wages increased (first government job wages were increased, many 3 fold, and then the private sector has also had to bring wages up). Interest free home loans.
There was massive corruption in the building industry there. If you wanted to put up a tall building you just did it and then payed someone regardless if it were appropriate. Building codes were non existing. Already that is changing.
Changing governmental processes is a hassle for the people there but otherwise most appear to be content and feel they are better off than in Ukraine.
That is no "defending Putin". That is just telling the truth.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I am sure they are "much" better off. Not to mention the LBGT population.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)There was a problem with emerging fundamentalists in Crimea well before 2014.
RUSSIA/UKRAINE: CRIMEA AS A NEW HOTBED OF RADICAL ISLAM IN POST-SOVIET SPACE
By
Evgenia Gvozdeva
Director of Production
In a video that was recently posted on Youtube and on Russian jihadist websites emir ofJaish al
-
Muhajireen wal-Ansar (JMA), Batallion of foreign fighters in Syria, Salahuddin Shishani, and his naib Abdul-Kerim Krimsky (Crimean) addressed to Muslims. The video mentions the latest developments in jihad of Northern Caucasian fighters against governmental roops in Syria.
The last part of the video is of a particular interest as it calls for jihad in Crimea.Abdul-Kerimand Shishani urged for jihad in
Crimea, meanwhile mentioning thatNorthern Caucasian jihadists will not go to Crimea, but they leave the honor of
waging jihad to Tatars in Crimea.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Missed that part
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Bread, still less than 50 cents a loaf.
Your "take" won't work against me because I know people who are there and talk to them regularly.
One friend just bought a TV for their kitchen - They made the choice for once by a company called "Telefunken" (older German brand now made in Russia). Works great and cost them $100 (24" .
Some things have gone up, but not dramatically as you would like to think. In addition Russia has increased social programs to compensate. Housing programs have been increased dramatically.
Several friends I keep in regular contact with their family income more than doubled as all government jobs increased 2-3x in pay overnight. That also had carry over effects on private industry.
What is the purpose of trying to make something sound the way you want it to when it isn't fact? Does it feel better? I just don't get it. You are obviously not talking to anyone who is there?
There are a lot of storefronts closed (Mostly businesses headquartered in Ukraine that were forced to pull out (by Ukraine law)). But plenty of others remain in place.
If you have ever been to that part of the world you might know that they still have large centers of small family kiosks and stands everywhere and those are very good at finding sources and provide a buffer against international business whims. Even so, Russian department stores have moved in and still, interestingly, there are major Ukrainian appliance stores that have somehow managed to continue business (Ukraine was far more corrupt than Russia, likely "blot" is still a factor there)
Response to newthinking (Reply #30)
Duckhunter935 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Although Russia's Black Sea fleet had been stationed on the peninsula for decades, Putin's comments were the first confirmation that Moscow's troops had backed up the so-called "self-defense forces" in the region.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/vladimir-putin-admits-russian-forces-helped-crimea-separatists-n82756
newthinking
(3,982 posts)I was talking about now. Maybe you meant to post that to another reply?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)newthinking
(3,982 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)marble falls
(57,013 posts)JayhawkSD
(3,163 posts)The Velvet Revolution took place in 1989, 11 years before Putin began his first term as president of Russia. The Afghanistan war was perpetrated by the Soviet Union, not by Russia, and did not involve Putin as president at all. The second Chechan war began in 1999, one year before Putin took office for the first time in 2000.
How about we blame Putin for sacking Rome in 300 BC?
polly7
(20,582 posts)LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)Here we go once again with the Putin apologists.
1monster
(11,012 posts)else.
Nowadays, it seems to be which ever propaganda group posts the most and the loudest.
According to one side, Putin is a lily white angel with silver and gold wings and the Ukraine government is a raging red black-winged demon. And vice versa on the other side. Both sides have the US, dripping blood from its hands, responsible for all the devastation on both sides.
Neither scenario is credible.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)the US has Putin beat by a country mile.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)I consider the media state to be the largest danger to the country at this point (ours and some others). It has little respect for accuracy and is entirely focused on what makes money more than consequences. It despises real journalism because real journalism does not result in favorable conditions to manipulate emotion which is what they rely on to capture the audience.
As such it becomes an easily manipulated organ. Free stories from propaganda mills (Russia, Ukraine, and the US all have them) and economic benefits when staying within narratives.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)when it's justified. Same for Russia.
The BBC didn't say "Putin is a dangerous monster", the writer for Counterpunch did.
And Russia is an "expansionist power" -- certainly in terms of aspirations. Putin openly talks about reclaiming Russian speaking regions into Russia. And large numbers of Russian citizens strongly agree with him.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)His remarks are constantly taken out of context and distorted.
He said the fall of the USSR was a catastrophe. It was for the people of the region. He never said he wanted to go back to it. Just that the way it happened. It was a catastrophe. They went through a depression worse then ours. Vultures descended on their country. Outside forces / bandit capitalists, etc took advantage of their Niavity of modern capitalism (Our "specialists" like Larry Summers, set them up with an experimental "libertarian" state.
But that is not the way the press reports the quotes and the propaganda meme keeps getting repeated.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)and the "russkiy mir" (literally "Russian world" . Putin has spoken very clearly and consistently on these matters for a long time. He consistently talks about areas "which historically have always belonged to Russia". He consistently talks about the obligation to defend the "rights and interests" of "millions of Russians and Russian-speaking" people who live in abroad and in former Soviet countries. Putin's outlook on the breakup of the Soviet Union is very clear. He has consistently declared, as you pointed out, that it was a catastrophe.
As he put it in a televised message last year:
I'm not saying that he's wrong, or that Russia is "evil". But his aspirations and vision for Russia are undeniable, and while I'm sure that Putin would put it in less direct, more guarded, and more general terms, I believe it can accurately be described as "expansionist".
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 1, 2015, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)
I agree we should be discussing these things. "Exposing" what is not right. But "exposing" while distorting and in the midst of a general propaganda war is not conducive to anything that benefits us or them.
I think we lack historical understanding and empathy of what occurred there. The breakup was a good thing, but the way it happened was indeed catastrophic. It was not that long ago so of course it is in the Russian mind and discourse.
There was a genocide of the elderly that occurred in the transition (Russians know this) that will eventually be recognized by history. There would have been many more millions lost if not for the legacy the Soviet Union left where most everyone owned a home.
Because Russians talk of the period as a catastrophe does not equivocate with wanting to militarily regain the borders. But it does explain the Russian protectiveness of ethnic Russian populations affected by the breakup. That is something that needs to be worked on, but it also needs to be recognized as a legitimate concern.
I know this is hard for an American to understand, due to all the years of the cold war propaganda, but Russians are one of the more discriminated against peoples of the world. Similar to people from the middle east, media has distorted them incredibly and routinely. But we now recognize that and actually sometimes even move against media that portrays middle easterners too negatively. But we have not even begun to recognize the same for Russians as it is so deeply placed.
The more one studies the region and history and when one travels to the region (I have been to both Russia and Ukraine and have studied and discussed these things with them for many years) the more the scales fall off and the distortions in media become apparent. And those distortions (and neocons, who are essentially a hate group) are moving us to confrontation.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)and to have a pro-Russian perspective. One can choose as a starting point the enormous death and destruction of WWII, or the harsh abuses of the Stalinist period, or a longer historical view.
Putin represents a pro-Russian perspective that is enormously popular and widely shared by many Russians.
I'm not personally invested in defending either a "pro-Western" or "pro-Russian" position. These events are going to play out with or without my approval.
Russia has legitimate arguments for annexing Crimea, which they've done. Do they now annex Donetsk and eastern Ukraine? Kiev has been described by Putin as the "mother" of the Russian people. Does Russia annex all of Ukraine? Belarus?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)I suspect that we are not that far apart in our understanding.
What seems to be the differing perception amongst progressive thinkers is whether they believe that what happened in Kiev was legitimate and whether it predicated events afterwards.
If you believe what happened in Kiev represented Ukraine and that the composition is not extreme then you will likely see Russia's reactions and support as aggression.
If you believe what happened in Ukraine was the violent overthrow by a minority, taken over by extremists and hard right, and maintaining power through dismantling and disenfranchising the parties that represented half of the people, then you will tend to see the actions of the Crimean Parliment, the easts rebels, and Russia as defensive.
I can say with absolute certainty, from time spent in the countries over many years, that this is all artificial. There was never a severe break between the people there. They "lived and let live". It was only a minority of extremists primarily in the west that hated on others.
The west used that hate first with the "Orange Revolution" and a US puppet (Yushenko, married to an American Neo-con), which was corrupt and not popular and left office after only 15 months, then through supporting what is going on now.