Vermonters skeptical of Bernie Sanders’ run for White House

[struggle4progress]

Views will not sell nationally, some say
By Annie Linskey
GLOBE STAFF APRIL 30, 2015

... “The hair kind of throws me for a loop,” offered Robert Palmer, a Burlington resident who was strolling with his dog near Lake Champlain Thursday, taking advantage of crisp clear weather. “Brush it. Fix it. Do something” ...

Devoid said Sanders is not as “marketable” as was former Vermont governor Howard Dean, who made an unsuccessful presidential run in 2004, she said. By comparison, she worries that Sanders comes across as “no-nonsense, grumpy, and tired” ...

“I lived in Nashville, Tennessee,” said Tamsin Laflam, 41, taking a morning stroll near Lake Champlain. “They would spit him out. There is no way he could be elected in the South” ...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2015/04/30/vermonters-have-embraced-senator-bernie-sanders-and-his-left-wing-iconoclastic-ideas-but-oval-office/QK0AiJW2xILXJJEA9QqPcP/story.html

[shenmue]

1. Watch people take offense at that

even though they're already making campaign shirts with an outline of his hair.

[PSPS]

2. I guess that's it, then. Bernie should withdraw for the good of the country!111!1!

[Hoyt]

3. His hair is fine. Otherwise, I agree with article. However, would love for many of his ideas

to catch on.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Vermonters are skeptical of everything

They're like New Hampshirites with more Volvos and without the nutty license plates.

[bunnies]

29. You dont like our Old Man?

Shame!!

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Nah, it's the inherent contradiction of "Live Free or Die"

on a license plate that you're not free to drive without.

[99th_Monkey]

5. "Some say ... "

... that this is a hit-piece, a pile of bull-shit.

[OnyxCollie]

23. The Chelsea Manning/Julian Assange stories have all but dried up, so...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. And Hugo Chavez is dead..

[struggle4progress]

41. I generally supported Chavez here

LMGTFY

[Thinkingabout]

6. I would expect some of Vermonters are not backing Bernie, I would never consider to support

Ted Cruz and do not consider his views to be my views. Nasty.

[GeorgeGist]

7. I'm skeptical that any sane person would take this puff piece seriously.

[Scootaloo]

8. You need a hobby

Also, this line?

“I lived in Nashville, Tennessee,” said Tamsin Laflam, 41, taking a morning stroll near Lake Champlain. “They would spit him out. There is no way he could be elected in the South”

Well... isn't that the way it is for ANY Democrat?

[truebluegreen]

9. + a zillion

I love it when some people explain to the rest of us that Bernie can't win 'cause he's a socialist--the people who fear and loathe that label would never vote for a Democrat anyway (according to that same group we've had a socialist president for 6.5 years already).

[cheapdate]

12. Winning the White House for the Democrats isn't about winning Tennessee.

Tennessee is deep red. Nor is winning the White House much about winning safe blue states. Winning the White House is more about winning battleground states; Florida, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, etc. (I said Florida twice intentionally. It's big.)

I love Bernie Sanders but I don't think he can win. I could easily be wrong.

[Scootaloo]

13. Why don't you think he can win? Please be specific.

[cheapdate]

14. Uh...I don't think he can get enough votes to win in

the aforementioned states. I don't think he can turn out large numbers of voters in Ohio, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, etc.

I think that about 70% of Americans are far, far less politically engaged that DU users and have never heard of the senator from Vermont. I think there are thousands of unengaged voters who would see the election as something that doesn't mean anything, with a Democratic candidate they've never heard of. I think they'll stay home, or whatever. Many Americans are poorly educated, poorly informed, and incurious. I think it will be extremely hard to generate mass turnout for Bernie Sanders.

There are thousand of voters who make their decisions for the stupidest of reasons. These people can decide elections. I think more of them would turn away from Sanders than would turn toward him, again, for the stupidest of reasons. What reasons? They don't like his tie. He's too cranky. Who fucking knows?

Look, I voted for Rocky Anderson of the Justice Party in 2012. He's articulate, accomplished, and advocated solid progressive policies in clear simple language. He won 0.036% of the vote, or a little more than three one-hundredths of one percent. Jill Stein of the Green Party did a little better, winning 0.3%, or three-tenths of one percent of the vote. I realize these candidates ran as third parties and that Sanders will have the advantage of running for a major party. But still, having good positions and being able to articulate them doesn't count for shit with the American electorate.

"He's kind of weird." "Didn't he used to be a communist?" Americans are fucking stupid and I don't think Bernie Sanders can win a national election.

[Scootaloo]

15. This is what campaigning is for

if the elections were to be held tomorrow, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But they won't be.

In fact,there's a primary in between now and then. For this primary, we don't need to be particularly concerned about the thoughts of Joe-Bub Booterstink of Body Lice, Missouri. Republicans don't get a say in our primary.

I'm fairly certain Bernie can win over Democrats, because he's saying what democrats beleive - and he's been saying it all along. I know the talking point is that "well, DU isn't the real world," and no, it's not - but i think that the reality that there are many four posters on DU snarling about how Bernie is "too left" for them is actually a pretty good sign of how things are outside our bubble - Democrats are not right-wingers. And unlike Kucinich who in all honesty was more fluff than substance, Sanders has some solid bedrock of policy and positions.

Now if he carries the primary, there's another reality to be faced. The republican candidates are all terrible. Maybe you'll think "oh you're supposed to say that," and maybe to some degree, yes, i think all Republicans are terrible. But not uniformly so, and oh boy this batch is loathsome. Their best option out of the lot is Rand Paul. Think about that for a moment, Rand Paul is the candidate they have with the best chance of carrying the general. Rand. Paul. And he is pretty much guaranteed to fucking blow it in a magnificently douchebaggy way.

Another fact about the republicans is that we can count on ~85% of them voting Republican no matter what. Republicans nominate a bag of dog chow, "well, at least it aint some sochullist demmercrat!" they say as they pull the lever. What this means is that we don't have to waste time courting them. In their strongholds - the solid south and whatnot - run campaign pieces purely to motivate democrats to get out there. Play up liberal strengths and Democratic values. There's no need to make embarassing shit like our candidate skeet shooting, talking basketball and shitcanning obamacare.

So we take these two facts. One, that the Republicans' options are just godawful, and two, a far majority of them will vote for those options anyway. What this means is that we really have no need to self-moderate. We can pull strong left and we can only gain, by energizing an american left traditionally antipathetic towards voting (largely due to the lack of good options for the left.)

"But what about the independents!" Well, first, they're overblown, in terms of numbers. A lot of hard-and-fast partisans will claim to be "independent" mostly because it makes them sound like Loner Badasses. It's sort of like how the KJV bible is consistently "America's favorite book," even as 50 shades overwhelms it in actual readership and purchase, and how so many parents inssit to their kids "no, I've never tried pot!"

But alright, there are actual-and-true independents out there. Why are they there? Dissatisfaction with the party political system in the United States. The dishonesty, the hyper-partisan bullshit, the dishonesty, the mudslinging, the lack of responsiveness or interest in the needs of most Americans and, oh yeah, the dishonesty. The key to winning these people is to address those issues... and Sanders happens to nail each one quite well. He runs clean campaigns, he's about the most startlingly honest man in the senate right now, he makes no bones about what he believes and isn't easily swayed into soundbyte nonsense. Despite his long career, he's still positioned as an "outsider" rather than a member of the 'good ol' boy" kickbacks club. And his central issue through that entire career has been more government responsiveness to the people, and improvement of conditions for the working stuiffs of the coutnry, rather than their bosses' bosses' bosses.

So what I think is the following.

- A majority of Republicans are lost causes to the democrats anyway. The remainder usually are as well, though some have "independent" swaying.

- Sanders, as an honest, forthright guy outside the partisan circlejerks of Washington, has a better chance than any candidate from either party, of pulling in Independent votes, and even has a fair chance at wooing hte apolitical.

- Running a genuine left-leaner as the Democratic candidate will wake up and energize the democratic left, as well as revitalize "mainstream" democrats, who I imagine are all pretty exhausted of playing defense. of the remainder, the conservative Democrats, well, I imagine that the majority of them will still vote party ticket just to vote party ticket. Some number will jump to the Republicans, it happens every election, but they won't swing any states, i don't think.

Sanders has a solid chance. Even ignoring all else, the absurd awfulness of the Republicans almost guarantees the democrats could run anyone with an IQ higher than grapefruit and win by a good 8%. With just that being true, I see no reason to not go for the most liberal candidate we can - and while I acknowledge Clinton is "liberal enough," and certainly isn't a conservative / right-winger, the truth is just that Bernie is more liberal and more consistently so. We throw on top the rest, that he has a better chance of waking up the Democratic left and roping in independents, and I think he really is our best option.

Anyone familair with my posts knows I'm a cynical bastard. I have little trust in the electorate as a collective group, and little trust even in my own party (you know, being part of the left and all). Sanders makes me genuinely optimistic. Of course it's a heady feeling and i like it, but more importantly... it takes some really good stuff to make me feel optimistic, in politics, and this is accomplishing it.

[cheapdate]

34. Your cynicism toward the American electorate is well founded and maybe overly generous.

I can't wrap my head around some of these dumb-fucks I've seen interviewed around election time who are purported to be undecided voters. The things they say blow my mind.

"I don't know much about his politics, but he seems very confident and I like that". Actual fucking statement (paraphrased) I remember a woman making when talking about George W. Bush in 1999.

I don't know what will happen in the primaries or the election. Sanders is a long shot, in both the primaries and the general, I'd still say.

By the way, the Republican candidates are all "terrible" only from a certain perspective. Thousands upon thousands of voting-age human beings in the Deep South and elsewhere, many with higher education, are positively giddy over Ben Carson. Ted Cruz is the only Republican who can stand on the debate stage and claim, accurately, that while the other candidates might talk a good game, he, Ted Cruz, is the only one who took a stand for liberty and against tyranny.

We'll see how deep the mythical American left is. They've not been heard from in more than 30 years, many believe them extinct. Here in my hometown of 150,000 souls in Middle Tennessee, I know practically everyone from "the left" and we can all fit comfortably around a table. Maybe there is this enormous groundswell waiting to be tapped. I remain skeptical.

I also believe that huge numbers of real people actually like Hillary Clinton. People like my mom and her gaggle of retired social worker friends down in Florida. They like her for the centrist, status-quo loving, woman that she is. Hillary has some big advantages over Sanders in organization, name recognition (very important for dumb people, i.e. most Americans), fundraising, institutional support, etc.

[swilton]

33. Agree with your comment -

so how does having lived in Nashville (doesn't say for how long.....years, a month or two, a few days???!!!) make Tamsin Laflam an authority on US politics....??!!

I'm from NH and my city is just across the river from Brattleboro, Vt...I have these anecdotes which I'm going to offer just to underscore they tell you nothing....

Editorial in the Keene Sentinel was positive about Sanders
My hair-stylist (Brattleboro, Vt.) had heard of Hillary Clinton but had not heard of Sanders (this was last Friday)
Last but not least, one of my colleagues at the YMCA told me over the treadmill that the waitresses at Lindsay's Diner (favorite stop for politicians who visit Keene) would not serve Hillary when she visited our town a few days ago...

I am into political science and imho, the above referenced article is taking up copy-space and is wasted effort.....It takes some serious scientific polling to determine what the people think of Sanders' candidacy here in NH/Vt as well as in the South.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

10. My Vermont relatives love Bernie.

[TM99]

11. Scraping the bottom of the barrel again, we see.

[struggle4progress]

16. For him to get into double-digits, his friends will need better soundbites than you offer

[TM99]

17. That is why I support Sanders so much.

His campaign will not be based on soundbites but rather topics of substance. Sadly, very much unlike this OP.

[struggle4progress]

18. Soundbites can convey substance. The point of a soundbite is this:

on the street, on a doorstep, or by phone, folk might allocate their time to you in 20 second segments; if you talk to a radio or TV reporter, you might get a 30 second clip; and a newspaper might let you have something between a half-sentence and two sentences

[TM99]

19. How's this?

It is time for progressive Americans and working families to bring their needs, concerns and visions into the political struggle. For too long the debate has been dominated by the corporate interests from Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, oil companies and those that make billions from our healthcare system.The survival of the American middle class is at stake. If we do not act and organize now, when will we?

Now have you got anything besides some joe shmoe from Vermont who says Sanders can't win?

[appalachiablue]

24. Doing well, the Candidate and the Hair. Both are authentic. T-Shirts & Hoodies selling well too-

*BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT-HAIR, T-Shirts, Hoodies; different colors and sizes.

LINK...http://www.redbubble.com/people/jrstees/works/14122148-bernie-sanders-for-president-hair?grid_pos=2&p=t-shirt

[4dsc]

20. I'd say he's a refreshing voice

versus what we're used to over the past couple of decades. Let him get his message out to the American public and let them decide.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

39. and I think a refreshing voice is what a LOT of people are craving

now.


Very interesting times.

[kacekwl]

21. Thanks for your opinion

but I think I will stick with mine. Go Bernie.

[gregcrawford]

22. THIS Vermonter looks a little deeper than hair styles...

... to determine a candidate's viability. And Tennessee can kiss my ass. If enough people look for ways to MAKE a good thing happen, instead of fabricating reasons why it can't happen, maybe we could at least slow, if not stop, the demise of democracy in this country.

The Party heads that have already anointed Clinton will stop at nothing to throw Bernie under the bus, just as they did to Dean. They will deploy surrogates to all the talk shows, and in all the newspapers and websites they can think of to say, "Oh no, Bernie can't possibly win!" because they don't want him upsetting their ever so profitable apple cart of collusion with the Third Way weasels of Wall Street.

And before anyone has a hissy fit and scrambles for the ALERT button, I'm sure NO ONE on DU would ever consider being party to a thing! I believe there are ever-vigilant watchdogs dedicated to preventing just such actions.

So there.

[silvershadow]

25. Well it has almost 600 views so far and only one "like". The article is

dumb and completely useless.

[arcane1]

26. I consider "Not Marketable" to be a good thing. It means "Not Phony" n/t

[appalachiablue]

27. +100

[Gothmog]

28. Good article.

Bernie thinks that he can run a viable campaign on $50 million. I am not sure how can do that now days and how he could compete against the Kochs and the GOP candidate spending close to $2 billion

[bunnies]

30. The Globe? Really?

*smh*

[GeoWilliam750]

32. I think his hair is like that because.....

It has been on fire so many times.

And I could not imagine a more desirable characteristic in a candidate.

[awoke_in_2003]

36. Fuck the south

It is full of knuckle dragging mouth breathers.

[struggle4progress]

37. You're suffering from blurry vision when details really matter

Down where I live,votes for Ds outnumber votes for Rs but we're getting screwed by the post-2010 gerrymander. And what made that gerrymander possible was the fact that holier-than-thou purists on our side didn't turn out in 2010

[awoke_in_2003]

38. I live in Texas

I can clearly see what I live amongst

[struggle4progress]

40. I lived in Texas during the Vietnam era and got out when I could

There have always been plenty of loud well-funded crazy-talking rightwing nutjobs

And the conservatives have been in control down there for a while now

But I think there's a lot more there than that, and I think a serious multi-year grassroots organizing campaign could flip the state

[redruddyred]

43. changing immigration and disenfranchisement laws too.

just my 2 cents.

[redruddyred]

42. why are we still talking abt the fucking hair.

I take sanders' "grumpiness" as a sign of sincerity.
I guess I'm the only one.

[struggle4progress]

44. We might get the hair off the table by quickly getting everyone across the political spectrum

bored with topic -- but if not, Bernie's folks better start coming up with some fun and snappy one-liner retorts

[redruddyred]

45. yo you know what we should do

show up to bernie rallies wearing krazy-hair pates
hells yeah

[struggle4progress]

46. Actually, a Bernie-Doo craze might be good publicity