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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
Tue May 26, 2015, 11:56 PM May 2015

"America Does Bad Things for Good Reasons": the Vietnam War and American Exceptionalism -

On Reality Asserts Itself, Mr. Appy, author of "American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity", discusses growing up with a broad faith that America is always an indispensable and invincible force for good in the world - and the seeds of his disillusionment with Americanism - May 26, 2015

PAUL JAY, SENIOR EDITOR, TRNN: Welcome to The Real News Network, and welcome to Reality Asserts Itself. I'm Paul Jay.

America does bad things, but it always does them for good reason. It always does them for the greater good. Well, that's the mythology.

Everyone else, all of America's enemies, they do bad things, too, but they do it for bad reasons. They do it to get rich. They do it for self-interest. They do it 'cause they're megalomaniacal dictators.

America does things for the greater good. Some people call it American exceptionalism.

in full:http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=13912
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"America Does Bad Things for Good Reasons": the Vietnam War and American Exceptionalism - (Original Post) Jefferson23 May 2015 OP
Christian Appy - American Reckoning OnyxCollie May 2015 #1
Thank you, I have not finished watching all of it yet. I especially appreciate the Jefferson23 May 2015 #3
Direct link to the youtube of this realnews newthinking May 2015 #8
I did 2 tours in Vietnam, I truly believed that we were trying to help the Vietnamese people GGJohn May 2015 #2
The lack of trust there after has lasted a long time. The consequences run so deep and Jefferson23 May 2015 #4
No it doesn't get better than that. GGJohn May 2015 #5
Beautiful. n/t Jefferson23 May 2015 #6
Tomgram: Christian Appy, "Honor" the Vietnam Veteran, Forget the War Jefferson23 May 2015 #7
What a read swilton May 2015 #11
Excellent resource! swilton May 2015 #9
+1. n/t Jefferson23 May 2015 #10

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
3. Thank you, I have not finished watching all of it yet. I especially appreciate the
Wed May 27, 2015, 12:40 AM
May 2015

question and answer period. Very thoughtful and intelligent author.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
8. Direct link to the youtube of this realnews
Wed May 27, 2015, 03:51 AM
May 2015

RealNews has some great and enlightening guest interviews too. Well worth watching.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
2. I did 2 tours in Vietnam, I truly believed that we were trying to help the Vietnamese people
Wed May 27, 2015, 12:22 AM
May 2015

from the spread of communism, by the end of my 2nd tour, I was thoroughly disillusioned and my eyes were wide open as to what was actually happening.
I mulled getting out after my first hitch, but my wife and I decided that I would make a career of it and I had the naïve hope that I could help change the mindset from the inside.
I stayed in for over 40 years, retired as a Capt., I don't regret my decision to stay, retirement has been good to us, great bennies, pretty good pension.

We also determined that I would be the last of my families tradition that the male members were expected to serve their country, none of our kids have joined the military.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
4. The lack of trust there after has lasted a long time. The consequences run so deep and
Wed May 27, 2015, 12:55 AM
May 2015

should be part of the foreign policy discussion. You made it home from war and have a family that
loves you...it doesn't get better than that, does it.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
5. No it doesn't get better than that.
Wed May 27, 2015, 12:59 AM
May 2015

We bought a small farm outside of Flagstaff, AZ and we're contented and happy in our little space of the world, our kids are grown and are gainfully employed, life doesn't get much better than that.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
7. Tomgram: Christian Appy, "Honor" the Vietnam Veteran, Forget the War
Wed May 27, 2015, 01:07 AM
May 2015

[Note to TomDispatch Readers: We have an interesting offer today and I’d like to give you the “Engelhardt guarantee” on it. When my kids were young and nervous about doing something that I was certain would work out well, I would assure them that they had the “Engelhardt guarantee.” It was ironclad. Now, I’m offering the same guarantee on a new work by historian (and today’s TD author) Christian Appy, American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity. I just finished it and it’s a hell of a book! I wrote about Vietnam at length in my Cold War history, The End of Victory Culture, but to my surprise I found myself repeatedly caught off guard by the information Appy has to offer and his insights into how that war helped shape our world. We’re offering signed, personalized copies of American Reckoning to TD enthusiasts in return for contributions of $100 (or more) to this site. (Check out our donation page for the details.) If you have any interest in the Vietnam War, you should get your hands on this book. (Click here for one path to doing so.)

I asked TD Managing Editor Nick Turse, who -- someone told me -- knows a tad about Vietnam himself to write today’s introduction. I would also insist that you get your hands on his bestselling book, Kill Anything That Moves, The Real American War in Vietnam, if I didn’t think that all TD readers had already done so! Tom]

Suddenly he appeared, riding in the back of a truck, his arms thrust to the heavens, his fists clenched tight. I couldn’t believe my eyes. It was Ho Chi Minh, modern Vietnam’s founding father... and he was holding dumbbells.

It was 2010, the eve of the 35th anniversary of the fall of Saigon -- though it was known in Vietnam as Liberation Day -- and the city was readying itself for a major celebration: a massive parade, fireworks, the whole shebang. That float, adorned with Olympic rings, was apparently designed to exhort Vietnamese onlookers to embrace physical fitness, though no reputable fitness trainer in the world would teach the form of standing shoulder presses being performed on that truck by that papier-mâché “Uncle Ho.”

Nations sometimes commemorate their war victories in strange ways. Not that I have first-hand experience. I grew up in the wake of the Vietnam War, so -- like all Americans since the end of World War II -- I never saw the celebration of a major victory. Perhaps somewhere, someone commemorated the triumphs over the tiny island of Grenada and the minimalist forces of Panama. There were, apparently, celebrations of the Gulf War before it was clear that meddling in Iraq would turn into a decades-long American debacle, though they didn’t make an impression on me.

What I remember, instead, was a different kind of celebration, a long, meandering moment famously labeled “it’s morning again in America” in a TV ad for Ronald Reagan’s presidential campaign. A nation hobbled by the real Uncle Ho, deindustrialization, and a raft of poorly conceived policies that had come home to roost was being gilded back to greatness by a spinmeister-in-chief in the Oval Office -- and Hollywood and the toy companies loved it. For me, it meant rousing times watching Rambo and “G.I. Joe” and Red Dawn. Rocky took on a towering Soviet superman, the Evil Empire’s boxing champ, and chopped him down to size. The president flipped the script after the phrase “Star Wars,” taken from George Lucas’s trilogy, was slapped on his fantastical “high frontier” defense boondoggle by critics. “If you will pardon my stealing a film line,” he said, “the Force is with us.” And if Mr. Gorbachev wouldn’t tear down that wall -- you know, the one in Berlin -- well, Mr. Reagan might just blow it to smithereens with an MX missile. It was a celebratory time, but remind me now, what exactly were we celebrating?

http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175953/tomgram%3A_christian_appy,_%22honor%22_the_vietnam_veteran,_forget_the_war_/

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
11. What a read
Thu May 28, 2015, 03:56 PM
May 2015

I would make the argument that it's not just the Vietnam War we need to atone for - we need to atone for all of the US wars of aggression, starting with the genocide of Native Americans...As a lifetime member of Veterans for Peace, I have (in attempting to stop both (and counting?) Iraq Wars) been in contact with many of the great anti-war veterans - among others David Cline who passed away in 2007.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cline


 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
9. Excellent resource!
Wed May 27, 2015, 12:16 PM
May 2015

Last edited Wed May 27, 2015, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Just watched it - as a baby boomer, explains a lot of how indoctrination was ongoing w/I history and political science classes, and the 'we're under attack' drills in grade school. Didn't realize I was so old but this is history.

For non-baby-boomers: you should see this for its vivid descriptions of post WWII mass culture and explanation of American nationalism formation.

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