Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:03 PM Feb 2016

Hillary Clinton,‘Smart Power’and a Dictator’s Fall--NYT Investigative Report: Parts 1 & 2

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:43 PM - Edit history (1)

The Libya Gamble: An examination of the American intervention in Libya and Hillary Clinton’s role in it.

Hillary Clinton,‘Smart Power’and a Dictator’s Fall

By JO BECKER and SCOTT SHANE
FEB. 27, 2016

The president was wary. The secretary of state was persuasive. But the ouster of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi left Libya a failed state and a terrorist haven.

Part 1

Hillary Clinton, ‘Smart Power’ and a Dictator’s Fall


Part 2

A New Libya, With ‘Very Little Time Left’


(This is a Very Long investigative read with video, photos--but, well worth it)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?_r=0


10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hillary Clinton,‘Smart Power’and a Dictator’s Fall--NYT Investigative Report: Parts 1 & 2 (Original Post) KoKo Feb 2016 OP
Wasn't anything "smart" about it. It could have been if properly planned & might have suceeded but Kip Humphrey Feb 2016 #1
Not a fan of Hillary's foreign policy, but I'm convinced that the mess left in the Lodestar Feb 2016 #2
As I posted in elleng's thread, middle east war = $$ for the super rich Doctor_J Feb 2016 #3
kick their ass and take their gas yurbud Feb 2016 #8
Really excellent article swilton Feb 2016 #4
...1 KoKo Feb 2016 #6
Thanks for this, KoKo. elleng Feb 2016 #5
Great! It is such a long read that it needed to be condensed KoKo Feb 2016 #7
rec. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #9
Smart only for the beneficiaries..sickening and contemptible. Clinton and Petraeus...GREAT ideas Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #10

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
1. Wasn't anything "smart" about it. It could have been if properly planned & might have suceeded but
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 12:11 PM
Feb 2016

for Hillary and her lack of foresight & meticulous aftermath planning required to be successful. But that's Hillary: lack of careful analysis and planning the details, traits I recognize from my encounter with her in 1970.

Lodestar

(2,388 posts)
2. Not a fan of Hillary's foreign policy, but I'm convinced that the mess left in the
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 01:16 PM
Feb 2016

wake of attacks on several ME states (Iraq, Syria, Libya) was intentional. A chaotic ME is a weakened ME. I think it was meant to be a scorched earth policy, rather than being the result of any lack of plans for the aftermath of those initiatives.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
3. As I posted in elleng's thread, middle east war = $$ for the super rich
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 09:58 PM
Feb 2016

"We came, we saw, he died, and my friends and I got even richer". I think she loves war and killing in and of themselves, but it's mostly about the money.

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
4. Really excellent article
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:58 PM
Feb 2016

very US centric but exposes the flaws of decision-makers (in this case the buck stops at Clinton). Omits the financial and geo-political motives of the foreign policy in casting it as a humanitarian intervention. Policy-makers flawed all the way for not looking at the long term consequences of a failed state and not realizing (duh??!!) that that was what would happen after the intervention. In casting dispersions on Qadaffi failed to mention positive aspects of Libyan culture - such as literacy, health care, etc. Also failed to explain Libyan history and its regional role a la the African Union. Saying that Qadaffi was killing insurgents was incomplete - no explanation for insurgency and what if any role was played by outside forces (i.e., covert operations) to start the insurgency. No explanation of Libyan political history as cause for insurgence.

I failed to look at North African relationships - not m geographic strength - during 2011. Have not been a fan of the Obama presidency and have heard comments that his presidency was Bush's 3rd term....Foreign - defense policy, he retained some of the same players (Victoria Nuland who had a role in this fiasco and whose husband just endorsed Clinton). Obama relies on drones more than Bush.

Finally regarding the article - good reader comments at the end - every one that I read (12+) considered the article an indictment of Hillary and her foreign policy experience and the responsibility she played in this disaster.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
6. ...1
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 08:45 AM
Feb 2016

I, also, wished it had gone more into what you point out--although it revealed more than we've known previously about the discussion and decisions that were made to take out Gadaffi. And, like you, it's hard not to wonder how after what they saw happen in Iraq that they didn't realize what would happen in Libya. But, then there has always been their guiding policy set down in the PNAC (Project for the New American Century) and the "Grand Chessboard" that has been guiding them, I think. The goal has been Regime Change and By Gosh they were going to go for it one way or another and damn the consequences to achieve the goal.

Omits the financial and geo-political motives of the foreign policy in casting it as a humanitarian intervention. Policy-makers flawed all the way for not looking at the long term consequences of a failed state and not realizing (duh??!!) that that was what would happen after the intervention. In casting dispersions on Qadaffi failed to mention positive aspects of Libyan culture - such as literacy, health care, etc. Also failed to explain Libyan history and its regional role a la the African Union. Saying that Qadaffi was killing insurgents was incomplete - no explanation for insurgency and what if any role was played by outside forces (i.e., covert operations) to start the insurgency. No explanation of Libyan political history as cause for insurgence.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
7. Great! It is such a long read that it needed to be condensed
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 08:58 AM
Feb 2016

I was exhausted after reading the two parts and watching the video, and its hard for many people to spend the time to bother read all of it.

Was pleased that NYT put in the video of Hillary's "We Came....We Saw..He Died" with her hearty laugh. That has always struck me as a chilling side of Hillary that people need to know about--especially since it contrasts so strongly with her image out in the campaign, these days.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
10. Smart only for the beneficiaries..sickening and contemptible. Clinton and Petraeus...GREAT ideas
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 05:53 PM
Mar 2016

on display..GREAT showing of "OUR American Values"..she actually said that.



Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Editorials & Other Articles»Hillary Clinton,‘Smart Po...