Newspaper IT employees 'angry as hell' over foreign workers
Employees dont understand how this can happenMay 9, 2016 1:59 PM PT
For McClatchy Company IT employees who will lose their jobs once their work is moved to India, there are fury and questions.
As many as 150 IT employees at the chain, which runs some 30 newspapers, will be losing their jobs. (See: "Newspaper chain sending IT jobs overseas."
A government form, called the Labor Condition Application (LCA), is being posted on bulletin boards at the offices of various newspapers in the chain. This form alerts workers that at least one H-1B worker is being used.
Photographs of some of these notices, posted at the Miami Herald, one of the newspapers owned by McClatchy, were sent to Computerworld.
"The are basically firing me and hiring a foreign worker to do my job at less than half the rate they were paying me," said one IT employee. "They really couldn't find American workers to do this job? Seriously? I am angry as hell."
More: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3067814/it-careers/newspaper-it-employees-angry-as-hell-over-foreign-workers.html
Skittles
(153,138 posts)last night I had to explain ONCE AGAIN the concept of a "transparent turnover" - that the entire shift logging off at the same time is NOT A GOOD IDEA
ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)...then don't expect anyone to be outraged when YOUR job is outsourced to low wage H-1b and L1 visa workers.
If you think YOUR job is safe, because you are not in IT - It is not.
When you cast your vote, be sure you know where your candidate sits on THIS issue!
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Pay a special attention to Item 8 on the application!
Any employer violating any condition listed in the application is breaking the law.
I just love the grossly misinformed high horse riders babbling about things they are clueless about!
ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)An unenforced law means nothing. Having a speed limit doesn't keep vehicles from going faster.
Just because your spouse came in on a visa, most likely legally - that doesn't make mean that companies are not breaking this law every freaking day.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/it-outsourcing/southern-california-edison-it-workers-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2915904/it-outsourcing/fury-rises-at-disney-over-use-of-foreign-workers.html
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Tells me how thorough you are.
You are obviously not paying any attention when you blame H1B visas for H1B visa abuses. Your broad-stroke indignation over the existence of those visas as the root of the evils you are whining about is missing the point by a mile. How about blaming law enforcement rather than the visa programs? Didn't occur to you, did it?
You might as well whine about traffic laws because they are routinely being violated.
Oh, and should I alert you over using "bullshit" in your post?
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)Where you told another DU'er "you better pack up your white hood and swastika flag?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016154925#post19
If so, I sent that alert. That certainly was in poor taste.
Response to OhioChick (Reply #39)
beastie boy This message was self-deleted by its author.
ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)The same amount of time it took for you to read the two articles I replied to you with?
Yes, I am paying attention to the H-1b visa program because I have worked for companies that routinely broke the law in their hiring practices. Yes, I even interviewed the US citizens that applied as candidates for the position, to which the company then circle-filed the applications because they could save money by bringing in a foreigner. Yes, I reported these practices. No, the company was not investigated.
It is up to the company to follow the law. When they break the law, they should be held accountable. It doesn't make sense to blame the police departments for not having a speed trap on my street... it is up to the drivers to obey the posted limit. When a driver gets a ticket, they have no one to blame but themselves. Sorry - but I will complain about the person breaking the law, not the absence of a police officer at every corner.
I disagree with your stance on this issue only because I know the law is rarely followed.
Oh, and last time I checked... calling out bullshit is not a violation of the TOS!
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)That's very appropriate, no?
And I disagree with your bullshit (thanks for pointing out this is not a violation of TOS) for blaming the visa recipients and not the criminals.
ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)Where have I EVER blamed an H-1b recipient?
Can you provide a link to ANY flipping post I have ever blamed an H1b recipient for getting a job through this program? Didn't think so. You have no credibility on this subject other than you spouse's path to citizenship through this program, which of course, was never designed to be a path for citizenship or permanent employment.
I do blame the companies first, and the program second, for not having any resources to enforce the guidelines of the program.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)without as much as knowing what her path to citizenship was. I can credibly tell you it was not through her H1B status.
And this
...then don't expect anyone to be outraged when YOUR job is outsourced to low wage H-1b and L1 visa workers.
smacks too much of the right wing rhetoric about "low wage illegal aliens". Just to show how credible you are, $60,000 (the minimum annual salary required to be paid to an H1B worker) is hardly low wage.
ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)zalinda
(5,621 posts)OhioChick
(23,218 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Brock U, class of March 2016.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)Making shit up, again. As you can see, others notice it as well.
Enjoy your day... you are too transparent to waste any more time on.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)You know, doubling down on the same lame accusation in the face of excerpts from your own posts makes you so much more credible!
Baobab
(4,667 posts)and is basically an intra-corporate transfer, temporarily. (no more than five years or so but thats informal)
TiSA is likely to vastly increase the utilization of these special trade deal labor provisions.
In exchange for more "Mode Four" (These provisions are broadly called "Mode Four" after the four modes of supply in GATS-
the US will get "Mode three" concessions such as "National Treatment" and "Most Favored Nation".
L-1 has no wage parity requirement, no necessity tests, no economic means tests, and also domestic regulations must be disciplined so as to be "not more burdensome than necessary to ensure the quality of the service".
Google "disciplines on domestic regulation"
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Since I am not at all familiar with the L1 visas, my defense (and it is not at all a defense of the abuses of the program) is limited to H1B.
appalachiablue
(41,118 posts)~ FIRST THEY CAME FOR THE ______ JOBS, AND I SAID NOTHING ~
First they came for the Taco Bell jobs, but I said nothing because I was smarter than that and studying in college.
Then they came for the undergraduate intern jobs, but I said nothing because I was a graduate student researcher.
Then they came for the graduate student jobs, but I said nothing because I was working an entry-level white-collar job for a Fortune 500 firm.
Then they automated away my entry-level job, but I said nothing because I was a skilled mid-level employee.
Then they eliminated the pension program, but I said nothing because I had a 401K.
Then they right-sized my group, but I said nothing because I was one of the few high performers they kept.
Then they eliminated the PPO and HMO and switched the entire company to a High Deductible plan, but I said nothing because we would not be delivering any babies or treating chronic conditions, and we were both less than 10 pounds overweight.
Then the landscape changed and my technical skills were useless, but I said nothing because I was in management.
Then the company was reorganized and I was finally let go, and I sought to pick up again.
My experience commanded too high a salary to net another management position. My technical skills were too rusty to get hired in another mid-level position. There were no entry-level white-collar positions left to apply to. The university required a PhD to teach. The undergraduate program tuition alone would cost my entire 401K and savings. I could not be a student and still draw unemployment.
I was no longer young enough to never get sick, and needed regular visits to the doctor.
I was too young to qualify for Medicare, yet had never argued to lower the eligibility age.
I finally applied to a Taco Bell job, where the manager remembered me from their days at the register. He refused to offer me a job because I failed to support his family when he needed health insurance. I threatened to sue and he laughed in my face saying "If you're applying for a job here then I already know you don't have enough money to sue. Welcome to capitalism my friend!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016151060
Akicita
(1,196 posts)jobs is racist. Didn't you know that? Whether it is insourcing foreign workers to take American jobs or outsourcing those same American jobs to those same foreign workers in their own countries makes no difference. Our puppet masters in the one percent have us programed that foreign POC workers have a right to our jobs. Whether it is legal or not. That way they can keep wages low and make much, much, more money and keep that gap between the rich and the rest of us growing and growing.
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)http://american-technology.net/blog/estimated-80-h-1b-visa-holders-underpaid/
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)it is accurate. Their link to EPI, whose authority they rely on for their claim, shows no relevant data.
In fact, the opposite may be true:
A few bad apples. Nor 80% bad apples.
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)I'm not your research slave.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)I find posters without sources telling me to find my own sources sooooo credible!
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)"C'mon, I dare ya! Do some work for a change!"
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Was I sending someone on a wild goose chase to find non-existing sources?
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)Asking me to research for you again?
Once again, Google is your friend.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Like I would be hung up on some thread that happened a month ago.... in response to your fantasies... after giving you three solid links and you denying their validity... without as much as offering any justification your batshit crazy ravings...
Yeah, pal that was so consequential in my life, I committed it to memory forever.
For you, it was the most important day of your life. For me it was Tuesday.
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)Not to mention on the Greatest Threads to boot!
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Just because I am mad as hell over some posts doesn't mean I will be trying to suppress opinions I disagree with (hint, hint), bad form or not.
Response to beastie boy (Reply #38)
Skittles This message was self-deleted by its author.
TBF
(32,041 posts)"I just love the grossly misinformed high horse riders babbling about things they are clueless about!" explains exactly where we are in the democratic party today. Sigh.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)See the so called "mandate" document for it on the main EU web server.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)worker solidarity - it's not just for blue collar workers anymore.
matt819
(10,749 posts)They'll just lock the employees out and take these steps anyway. The bottom line is, of course, the bottom line. How do the numbers play out. The employees? Fuck 'em.
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)A union is very helpful when management wants to get rid of one "troublesome" employee. But if management wants to get rid of an entire department, the union has no leverage. A strike would have little effect because you'd be withholding labor they don't want anyway.
This problem can only be solved politically, at the highest levels. In other words, by President Sanders.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)they could be helpful in a political sense. Went to a convention this weekend. Sat at a table of Union leaders who were supporting Clinton. I so wanted to ask them just what they expected to get from her for their workers. But the truth is they were probably not thinking about their workers.
Another very funny thing we had most of our elected leaders give speeches. And most of them spoke about issues - ones Bernie talks about - those Union leaders were the first on their feet in applause. They liked Bernie's issues? What was going on?
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)My union endorsed Hillary. There was no vote by the membership, no consultation of the membership, no asking for our opinions, no meetings, no nothing.
Sounds like one of those old "company unions", doesn't it?
It's a shame that one of my heroes, Pete Seeger, isn't still around to write a song about all this.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)that they were so in agreement with the stated issue and sat there with their Hillary buttons? Even when they were just talking between themselves they sounded like Bernie supporters. It was weird. Like they do not really know what is going on. Who is for what?
pscot
(21,024 posts)of several hundred employees vote to de-unionize, I can't put too much faith in that option.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)The company just wanted to lower labor costs by firing qualified experienced American workers and giving those jobs to people overseas for a third of the salary and zero benefits. It's not new. Its been going on for decades in many industries and as long as it doesn't happen to you, my dear third way and pragmatic democrats, it's OK. You can still vote for a candidate who is OK with offshoring and outsourcing and pretend to not understand what people who lose work this way go though. Sure, it's uncomfortable being around these sad sacks. Just avoid them like the plague so your comfortable bubble doesn't burst.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Has been that way since the Clinton's Republicanized the Democratic Party.
elljay
(1,178 posts)it is wall-to-wall techies, yet, somehow, companies just can't find American citizens to fill positions. Funny how that happens. You would almost think that they specifically tailor the applications to make sure that citizens who are perfectly capable of doing the job but who require a minimal amount of training just don't have "precisely" the right credentials.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)tom_kelly
(957 posts)but she has created too much opportunity to do so.
I remember seeing her explaining the merits of the H-1B program to a crowd in India. Maybe someone could post that again for others to see that we will be in for a lot more of the same with another Clinton presidency.
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)The incident you referenced was Hillary talking to people at an Indian-owned company in Buffalo, NY. She was very pro-H1B. But to be fair to Hillary, she will usually just say what the crowd in question wants to hear. She's anti-coal in California, pro-coal in Kentucky, etc., etc.
So how would a President HRC handle this H1B disgrace? I guess it depends on which lobbyist has talked with her last.
Hint: Workers do not have lobbyists. But big companies do.
tom_kelly
(957 posts)Shemp Howard
(889 posts)Hillary talking to Indian business executives in NY...Hillary talking to Indian business executives in India...no difference.
Hurray for H1B visas in either case. As for the displaced workers, let them eat cake. At least until their unemployment benefits run out.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)tom_kelly
(957 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Well she is disgraceful on many many levels. Doesn't seem to bother her avid supporters though
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)xocet
(3,871 posts)Note that Sec. Clinton says nothing on her current campaign website that Google could find:
https://www.google.com/?q=site:www.hillaryclinton.com+H-1B
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Response to tom_kelly (Reply #6)
KansDem This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)CrispyQ
(36,446 posts)What about Directors, VPs & C-level officers? Funny how those jobs are never outsourced. In fact, one company I worked at, after laying off a few worker bee departments they hired new Directors' & VPs.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Response to OhioChick (Original post)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Arizona Roadrunner
(168 posts)I live in an area where we have apartment complexes with over 90% of the residents being "contract" H-1B employees. They are replacing workers who are over 50 and the workers have to train their replacements. There doesn't appear to much of a test if any to show that they (employers) couldn't find an American to do the job. They can't say anything because they will lose what little severance package they get. My wife was talking with one of them and was informed they are all voting for Trump. The feeling is they don't expect Republicans to do anything but upon investigation Clinton made speeches (yes paid!) to the contract organizations in India and therefore they don't trust the Democrats who on a whole haven't said much about the situation.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Shemp Howard
(889 posts)Arizona Roadrunner is correct. Displaced workers, laid-off workers, angry workers...we're talking traditional blue-collar Democrats here. They'll pick Sanders over Trump.
But many of them will break for Trump over Hillary, and more than you might think.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)that'll fix this problem.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)perdita9
(1,144 posts)Why should I invest that kind of money in an American college if our Congress continues to allow companies to send these jobs overseas?
I sent that question to Senator Pat Toomey last year. He couldn't give me an answer.
Shemp Howard
(889 posts)Ask your Democratic representatives what they are going to do about this. Ask your Democratic President what he is going to do about this.
The Republicans are a lost cause here. What mystifies me is that most Democrats are also doing nothing. Is everybody except Bernie bought off?
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)Senators Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein and got a couple of mealy mouth form letter responses expressing concern for his concern but pointing out the "benefit" of H1B visa holders to the economy. In other words, too bad, so sad. Our elected representatives who live cushy lives with every perk and benefit imaginable coud not give two shits about us.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,165 posts)careers when they will graduate with a mountain of debt, only to compete with lower paid foreign workers?
Francis Booth
(162 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Ohio should check out the jobs that left there and went to TEXAS which is just a wannabe foreign country.
snot
(10,520 posts)require countries to RAISE standards abroad, not reduce ours to the lowest common denominator.
Snot - you hit the nail on the head
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Also, the first trade deal to include these provisions was GATS in 1994 - so thats a deal Bill Clinton signed.
GATS Mode Four is part of GATS- that is an international temping program, no more than five years or seven years for managers seems to be an informal limit.
As far as the 3 pending deals, none of them has been approved yet. Talks are ongoing in Geneva, Brussels and at large for TPP.
The general outline is that they are supposed to increase profits and that is supposed to increase efficiency.
Bill Clinton signed it, not Hillary.
Also L-1 visas are used in GATS, not H-1B
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)... H1B, or Hillary, or any other scapegoat du jour, do yourselves a favor and educate yourselves!
Go through this Labor Condition Application:
https://www.doleta.gov/regions/reg05/Documents/eta-9035.pdf
Then you can rant without making yourselves look like fools.
This is not directed at the OP. This is a totally legitimate news item. The quoted IT employee may be misinformed as well, but the issue he and the OP are raising is legitimate. I just wish the responses I read here were on the same level of legitimacy.
MidwestTech
(170 posts)I am in IT and I can tell you nearly every single H1-B visa claim is utter, total, and complete bullshit.
Legality isn't what is pissing people off, it's what's right and what's wrong, and the h1b visa program is horrible not just for all the americans that loose their jobs to questionably qualified and/or competent people but those very people themselves.
There have been a few articles, sorry no sources atm but google it, about how the h1b program is just this side of wage slavery in a very literal sense.
the only people who win are the corporations and the executives. Literally everyone else INCLUDING THE ECONOMY looses.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)visas is total bullshit?
The best you can legitimately tell me is that there is consensus among IT professionals you know about H1B visa claims being bullshit.
I will not argue with your experiences. My experiences are very different. All I know is that a salary north of 60,000 can hardly be called slave labor, and I don't see how these salaries being put back into the US economy and the taxes paid on those salaries are bad for the economy.
I will, however, consider your sources should you provide them.
ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)...and blindly call bullshit on everyone that has experienced these companies abuses.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004501/h1b/proof-that-h-1b-visa-abuse-is-rampant-in-tech.html
http://www.cio.com/article/2946119/careers-staffing/5-shocking-examples-of-h-1b-visa-program-abuse.html
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Your first source refers to about 2,200 positions affected by H1B abuse.
Your second source is a bit more thorough: it refers to 12,000 positions.
There is overlap in those two sources, but for your sake I will assume there is none. In this case, your sources are citing a total of 14,200 positions affected by CORPORATE ABUSE of the program.
The total H1B recipients in 2013 (the year most mentioned in the two articles) was 84, 000! Whic, since I appear to be in the habit of spreading factual bullshit, amounts to about 15% of all H1B recipients.
I am not saying I am willing to accept this as "collateral damage". I am not.
But you are here ranting and moaning about H1B visa program as if it is inherently evil, overlooking the fact that it is, in the vast majority of cases serves its purpose legally, benefits a shitload of highly skilled and legitimately unique workers, benefits institutions in need of these workers, and benefits the US economy.
See, if you are just patient enough, sooner or later you'll be making my point! Sources and all.
Your using selective reading.
The article says that information was gleaned via a Freedom of Information request.
It does not spell out the latitude of that FOI.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)I am looking for concrete numbers which will show that H1B visa program is beyond redemption, and I just can't find them.
And please tell me how the FOIA information is not complete, since H1B is a government program and ALL of its records are subject to a FOIA request.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)Perrero and his former co-workers at Disney are not alone. Other companies such as Texas Instruments, Southern California Edison, and Northeast Utilities, have recently made headlines for also displacing their own workers with cheap foreign labor made possible by H1-B abuse. In addition, over the past year, other companies such as The Fossil Group, Catalina Marketing, New York Life, Hertz, and Toys R Us - were highlighted by the press. But this is only the proverbial tip of the iceberg. There are many more, reads testimony from Dr. Ron Hira, Associate Professor Of Public Policy at Howard University. I have been contacted by numerous American workers at many companies who are currently training their replacements. - See more at: https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/02/disney-worker-breaks-down-when-describing-how-he-trained-his-foreign-guest-worker-replacement#sthash.mrKIacVY.dpuf
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/02/disney-worker-breaks-down-when-describing-how-he-trained-his-foreign-guest-worker-replacement
Z
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)not just the 100 mentioned in your link.
And I am sorry, but I refuse to read anything authored by Michelle Malkin.
Once again, I am not arguing that there are no abuses in the system, or that the abusers should be left unpunished. What I am arguing is that the wholesale condemnation of the entire H1B program based on the existing data is complete and utter bullshit.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)of your family members or friends have benefited from the H1B visa. Or maybe it's your company?
Z
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Yes, one of my family members has, LEGITIMATELY AND PRODUCTIVELY, benefited from the H1B visa program.
So have over 85% of all H1B recipients. When anyone bashes the H1B program, they are disregarding and denigrating these 85%. And when some posters here try to discredit the level of accomplishment required on the part of the recipients to even qualify for the visa , it smacks of xenophobia.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)opposite effect. I have no idea where you get your 85% from, but all those 85% H1B people's jobs were given to them because Americans couldn't do the job? I find that very doubtful. Some one has pulled those numbers out of their ass.
There are a huge number of people on this board who have direct knowledge of jobs being given to H1B visa holders across the country, and you are trying to tell me that all these people are only interacting with 15% of the visa holders?
Man, you are delusional. And it has nothing to do with xenophobia.
Z
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Just look at the snarky post #60 and my equally snarky reply to it (#76). This is the best that the "huge number of people" who claim to have direct knowledge on the subject have mustered. And no, I am not telling you they are only interacting with 15% of the visa holders. I am telling you they are interacting with less than 1% of all visa holders! And it is they who make it clear, again and again, that they know jack shit about H1B program. Time and again, they equate the abuses of the program to the program itself.
And why would you find it hard to believe that out of millions of jobs becoming available in the US each year, there are not 85,000 jobs, at least 25,000 of them requiring a Master's degree or above, that cannot be filled by the workforce in the US? We are talking 5% of the jobs at most!
I am looking forward to a response in which you finally come up with a rational explanation of your position on H1B, a response that would hopefully include some numbers. In the meantime, permit me to delusionally cling to the data at hand.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)There are reasons for H1B visas, but they are for jobs that CAN'T be filled by Americans. The problem with the entire program is that employers LIED, these jobs can be filled by Americans. There is a video that made the rounds a few years ago that was a seminar given to HR directors on how NOT to hire an American but hire an H1B and get away with it.
While your acquaintance may be a legitimate H1B hire, the vast, vast majority are not. Your person may be legitimate. The program is severely flawed, and what may have started out as a noble idea has quickly turned into 'firing an American, hiring a H1B foreigner to save money' cluster fuck.
Disney is just the company that was publicized. It has been happening for years, especially in the tech field.
I just found the numbers, 65,000 H1B visas allowed, 20,000 H1B visas with masters or higher degrees. Also there are more H1B visa allowed than that. In 2010 it was 118,000, in 2011 it was 130,000 and in 2012 it was 136,000 because there are all kinds of exemptions with non-profits and universities and others. It is a very tangled web with all the trade agreements and such. And Hillary wants to increase the amount issued.
Apparently you have no feelings for Americans losing their jobs to cheaper foreign labor. If it happens to you, maybe then you will understand.
Z
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)... explain how employers lying in 15% of the cases (that number has been documented in previous posts) makes their lies a problem with the entire program. Then point to the video you referring to. Then tell me how many employers were represented in the seminar you are talking about. Then tell me, in real numbers, how vast is the vast majority of H1B recipients are not legitimate, and what exactly, other than the circumstances of their birth, makes them illegitimate.
Unless and until you do, you have no business accusing anyone but yourself of making absolutely no sense.
I will not dispute the total numbers of H1B visa recipients you cited - they sound right. I just want to bring your attention to the fact that you are shooting yourself in the foot by bringing these numbers up. The only thing they accomplish is make the percentage of illegitimately granted H1B visas a lot less proportionally than I originally calculated based on the total of 85,000 visas granted annually.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)because they are taking away jobs that rightfully belong to Americans. The H1B visa says, that it will only be granted IF the job can't be filled by an American.
Disney hired 150 foreigners to take over jobs that 150 Americans had been doing, and had the Americans TRAIN the foreigners. This is only one example. There are many, many other companies that have done the same thing. The only reason we don't hear about them is that if they speak out, they lose their severance package, so they have to be quiet.
I have no idea where you got the 15% that you are hanging onto, but it would probably be more like 15% are legitimate and the 85% are illegitimate. DU members live all across the country, and they have many stories on how H1B visas are being used in places that they work.
And check out this http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=155891 If there was no fraud going on, why is this a story?
Z
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Your link which cites a case involving less than 150 visas notwithstanding, you are still talking about 15% rate of fraud involved in granting of H1B visas. Did I ever say there was no fraud? What do you think "about 15% rate of fraud involved in granting of H1B visas" means?
And once again, refer to post #76 for detailed explanation of how I arrived at 15%, using real numbers, not what I think the numbers would probably br.
I am tired of repeating this, and if you don't get it, your stubborn ignorance does not create in me a sense of obligation. I can't make you understand simple math if you don't want to.
I am done with you.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)Post #60 has the links.
And reading the article it does not say 15% of all H1B visas. It says that the rule is that a company cannot have more than 15% of the companies TOTAL work force, which means that if a company has 100 employees, it can only have 15 H1B visa employees, the other 85 employees have to be non H1B visa employees.
Now do you understand?
Z
Btw, I can list a number of companies that have done this, if you like.
beastie boy
(9,292 posts)Post #76 (you can guess it's post #76 because it starts with 76):
Your first source refers to about 2,200 positions affected by H1B abuse.
Your second source is a bit more thorough: it refers to 12,000 positions.
There is overlap in those two sources, but for your sake I will assume there is none. In this case, your sources are citing a total of 14,200 positions affected by CORPORATE ABUSE of the program.
The total H1B recipients in 2013 (the year most mentioned in the two articles) was 84, 000! Whic, since I appear to be in the habit of spreading factual bullshit, amounts to about 15% of all H1B recipients.
I am not saying I am willing to accept this as "collateral damage". I am not.
But you are here ranting and moaning about H1B visa program as if it is inherently evil, overlooking the fact that it is, in the vast majority of cases serves its purpose legally, benefits a shitload of highly skilled and legitimately unique workers, benefits institutions in need of these workers, and benefits the US economy.
See, if you are just patient enough, sooner or later you'll be making my point! Sources and all.
What other idiotic excuse will you come up with to keep up with this bullshit????
zalinda
(5,621 posts)...and blindly call bullshit on everyone that has experienced these companies abuses.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004501/h1b/proof-that-h-1b-visa-abuse-is-rampant-in-tech.html
http://www.cio.com/article/2946119/careers-staffing/5-shocking-examples-of-h-1b-visa-program-abuse.html
From #76 by beastie boy 76. OK, I am calling bullshit again. And, thanks tou your sources, not so blindly.
Your first source refers to about 2,200 positions affected by H1B abuse.
Your second source is a bit more thorough: it refers to 12,000 positions.
There is overlap in those two sources, but for your sake I will assume there is none. In this case, your sources are citing a total of 14,200 positions affected by CORPORATE ABUSE of the program.
The total H1B recipients in 2013 (the year most mentioned in the two articles) was 84, 000! Whic, since I appear to be in the habit of spreading factual bullshit, amounts to about 15% of all H1B recipients.
I am not saying I am willing to accept this as "collateral damage". I am not.
But you are here ranting and moaning about H1B visa program as if it is inherently evil, overlooking the fact that it is, in the vast majority of cases serves its purpose legally, benefits a shitload of highly skilled and legitimately unique workers, benefits institutions in need of these workers, and benefits the US economy.
See, if you are just patient enough, sooner or later you'll be making my point! Sources and all.
Now an from the article.
The H-1B program's regulations recognize that it could be used unfairly. Thus, it contains the so-called dependent clause, which covers companies whose H-1B workers comprise 15 percent or more of the employer's total U.S. workforce. Among other provisions, those rules state that covered companies or their contractors may not displace U.S. workers and must make a "good faith effort to find suitable domestic employees before hiring an H-1B visa holder to do the job.
However, if a company pays a worker $60,000 or more, those rules do not apply. That, says Hira, is why so many outsourcers pay salaries that are very close to the threshold. Indeed, Infosys pays more than 600 of its workers exactly $60,000 a year, and Wipro pays that amount to 500 of its workers, he found when he analyzed the data. It's hardly a coincidence.
In 2014, 13 outsourcing firms, including seven from India, accounted for nearly a third of the 85,000 H-1B visas that were approved. Of the major Indian firms, Tata Consulting Services obtained 5,650, Infosys 3,454, and Wipro 3,048. U.S.-based Cognizant Tech Solutions obtained 4,293 visas. And Ireland-based Accenture got 2,275. (Salary data for 2014 is not yet available.)
Yes, large U.S. tech companies use H-1B visas as well. The largest include IBM with 1,462, Amazon with 877, Microsoft with 850, Intel with 700, and Apple with 443.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004501/h1b/proof-that-h-1b-visa-abuse-is-rampant-in-tech.html
There is money to be made in H1B visa and therefore it will be corrupted by both companies and recruiters, the American workers have been getting the shaft.
Z
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Lower wages are one of the benefits of participation in GATS, TiSA, etc.
GATS was signed in 1994.
Nobody is telling American corporations they cannot save money in any way they can. If they can legally get four employees for the price of one US citizen, unless there is something that makes the US citizen unique, like more education, unique skills, the government is basically encouraging them to do it.
According to foreign governments, hiring their workers saves money on education, training, and also on wages, although the minimum wage may go up soon. (it may get struck down by the WTO if its proved that we are doing that to keep these firms out, as they are entitled to their contracts if they are the lowest qualified bidders)
matt819
(10,749 posts)Expressing my opinion.
Reply from news editor? My e-mail was the first she heard of this. Maybe when she needed tech support and got a call center in New Delhi, or Steve from IT didn't answer her call, she'd have figured out that something was up.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Remember when Lou Dobbs was a human being?
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)In a lot of places they are hiring these H1B workers then requiring the folks that they are firing to train the new employee.
If it was me, I might just leave some critical issues out of their "training," and add a few that management would not be happy with.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)after November (Unless Bernie is the Nom)
If fact I expect a concerted effort to kill all high paid jobs especially IT after November. Call it TPPing
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)There might be some leeway in law, but that's a clear violation. I get people being upset, but let's don't lie (the quote in the article) about the situation and spread hatred.
valerief
(53,235 posts)IronLionZion
(45,411 posts)everyone else has always been on visas mostly from India with a few Russian, Korean, Nigerian, and no other Americans.
I want people of all types to have jobs and would never begrudge a fellow human being from having employment, but entering the IT field is a never-ending source of self-loathing for me and one of my biggest regrets in life. I wish this industry would unionize or at least organize somehow to have some more political power. There are lots of us.
Not enough voters are asking our job creating candidates about their plans for IT jobs. Or they'll say that Bernie is a protectionist.
The coal miners who lose their jobs get more attention than the educated Americans who are blocked out from IT jobs.
IronLionZion
(45,411 posts)whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)Will keep going to China and India.
lostnfound
(16,170 posts)I tried to write about it the other day and got a couple of snarky answers that I was being nationalist etc.
Presented to me the other day, the benefits of hiring in India to replace attritted workers. College grads working direct for us, embedded within the org. Basic oversight provided, our own facilities, our own IT infrastructure. Just another geographic location.
Hire two or three workers to replace the one you just lost.
For a lot of jobs, it's a no-brainier from a business point of view. They're making it so easy, it can cut costs dramatically.
But I hear it as a massive wave coming. Be prepared. I don't know how you can actually prepare for this, but be prepared nonetheless?
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)If you want to actually matter then go get a job as a CEO or a billionaire hedge fund manager. If you aren't rich or if you don't matter in America it's only because you are lazy and don't work hard enough to have your own superpac or your own political candidate.
That's why my presidential candidate is the candidate for the doers in our society (Hillary Clinton) and not the takers (Bernie Sanders).
Fuck the poor and the lazy middle class masses!
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)My husband is the only American on his team here in Houston. And the rest of the team is in India and Ukraine.
My son-in-law (who is Filipino American) is the only American in his group of Indians who are here working on H1-B visas. When he was moved to this group he called me to tell me "Hey, Mom, I'm the token white guy, now! They needed an American citizen on the project, so that's me!" (Government related project....)
Gotta' laugh, otherwise, I'd be crying. I've been worried about my husband finishing out his career in IT, and now I have to worry about my sweet son-in-law who is just starting his
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Print media has been slashing news jobs for a good 10-15 years now (my last really good job in the industry ended 11 years ago)... Did the IT folks think they were immune or something??