Matt Taibbi: Democrats Will Learn All the Wrong Lessons From Brush With Bernie
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/democrats-will-learn-all-the-wrong-lessons-from-brush-with-bernie-20160609The maddening thing about the Democrats is that they refuse to see how easy they could have it. If the party threw its weight behind a truly populist platform, if it stood behind unions and prosecuted Wall Street criminals and stopped taking giant gobs of cash from every crooked transnational bank and job-exporting manufacturer in the world, they would win every election season in a landslide.
This is especially the case now that the Republican Party has collapsed under the weight of its own nativist lunacy. It's exactly the moment when the Democrats should feel free to become a real party of ordinary working people.
But they won't do that, because they don't see what just happened this year as a message rising up from millions of voters.
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highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Because those who fund them don't. It's that simple. Wars. Prisons. Economic Inequality. Anyone remember Vichy France? I'm sure they thought they were much better than the Nazis but it didn't matter.
MisterFred
(525 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)much appreciated "blast from the past". Before my time, always remembered. We are the change that was just a promise in President Obama's election. Make them serve the people.
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saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)much appreciated "blast from the past". Before my time, always remembered. We are the change that was just a promise in President Obama's election. Make them serve the people.
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highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)I'll throw a few more out there.
And I'll throw this out, cuz it's fun and funky and the words are good too for this situation, if you really listen, and yes, we could party like a Party if only we get it all together
and act like THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!!
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)Music for the soul.
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)BOB MARLEY
"So Much Trouble In The World"
So much trouble in the world
So much trouble in the world
Bless my eyes this morning
Jah sun is on the rise once again
The way earthly thin's are goin'
Anything can happen.
You see men sailing on their ego trip,
Blast off on their spaceship,
Million miles from reality:
No care for you, no care for me.
So much trouble in the world;
So much trouble in the world.
All you got to do: give a little (give a little),
Give a little (give a little), give a little (give a little)!
One more time, ye-ah! (give a little) Ye-ah! (give a little)
Ye-ah! (give a little) Yeah!
So you think you've found the solution,
But it's just another illusion!
(So before you check out this tide),
Don't leave another cornerstone
Standing there behind, eh-eh-eh-eh!
We've got to face the day;
(Ooh) Ooh-wee, come what may:
We the street people talkin',
Yeah, we the people strugglin'.
Now they sitting on a time bomb; (Bomb-bomb-bomb! Bomb-bomb-bomb!)
Now I know the time has come: (Bomb-bomb-bomb! Bomb-bomb-bomb!)
What goes on up is coming on down, (Bomb-bomb-bomb! Bomb-bomb-bomb!)
Goes around and comes around. (Bomb-bomb-bomb! Bomb-bomb-bomb!)
So much trouble in the world;
So much trouble in the world;
So much trouble in the world.
There is so much trouble (so much trouble in the world);
There is so much trouble;
There is so much trouble (so much in the world);
There is so much trouble;
There is so much trouble in the world (so much trouble in the world);
There is (so much in the world);
(So much trouble in the world)
Justice4
(2 posts)Really like the Bootsy Collins, it was awesome! and I'm a huge fan of Frank!
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)These are some Bernie supporters are doing:
"This meme says: "It's not throwing away my vote if I never would have voted for them in the first place. America threw away my vote". CREDIT: BERNIE SANDERS DANK MEME STASH/FACEBOOKlr."
Many took a different approach, saying they would not vote for Clinton, but would vote for Sanders as a write-in candidate.
A write-in candidate is one which is not on the ballot, but a person people can vote for regardless, by writing their name in. The write-in system is almost entirely confined to the US.
They started a hashtag: #writehimin, which has spread to other social media sites.They also started hashtags such as #neverhillary and #ifwebernyoubernwithus, which have spread to Twitter and Tumb
Everyone will get tired of reading the happy-talk pretty soon...it's sickening. I was going to put this on another thread but it was locked. Every time I come back to write something, it's been locked. This is probably a preview of the future. And there will probably be an enemies list.
So, if we think the primaries were crooked; and things were handled wrong, and we are voting for a democratic candidate that we think was the real nominee (Bernie Sanders), nobody should be banning us because we said that. It seems to me people are being silenced depending on who they will vote for, which I think is akin to telling us who to vote for.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Rules are everywhere, and knowing them can prevent all kinds of misunderstandings, conspiracy theories, false accusations of crookedness.
If the rules offend you, then maybe it's not the place for you. You haven't been here long, so maybe you need to re-evaluate why you came here in the first place.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)I've thought this for awhile now.
The thing establishment Democratic Party elites fear more than losing?......Actually winning all three houses.
Because then it would give strength and hope to the grassroots liberal base of the Party. They would expect that finally, finally after years, decades of either patted on the head and told "there there" we'll get to you...and away from cameras dismissed as the fucking "liberal retards", their reps would now have no excuses to shy away from real, quantifiable progressive action.
And if that started to happen, their big sugar daddies would be threatening to pull their donations, as well as cushy jobs to D reps when they retire from politics. Let's face it, working for "the people" is a lot less lucrative.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I posted the same thing yesterday. They will take the wrong message away from all of this and tack further right as they go.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)They already want him to stand down and silence him before the convention but this political revolution will not be silenced no matter how much the DLC tries to ignore it. Pelosi refused to impeach Bush/Cheney against the roar of the crowds and we lost the house as angry Democratic voters refused to vote. To this day dem leadership still missed the point. Now we have a nominee who refuses to hear the roar of democratic progressives and this populist movement that Bernie gave voice to. Will they ever put it together?
SylviaD
(721 posts)....he should have been arrested!
That was a big mistake for establishment Democrats - I agree with that.
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)They do want to dismiss the issues that Bernie brought out in the debates asap. They want to spend the rest of their time talking about how awful Trump is, and what a bad hair do.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)HRC and her supporters see no reason to change their behavior.
Once Sanders' supporters are silenced next week, this place will be an echo chamber to rival the GOP echo chamber.
pengu
(462 posts)I've seen more than one refer to it as "forced unity" without even realizing what they're saying.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Once a "D" is affixed to your name you may not be criticized.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)The owner has made plain that his personal ambitions are to be part of the party establishment. It's not particularly surprising that he'd want this site to serve that establishment. I suspect many folks have always misunderstood the "underground" inspiration to this site.
Kall
(615 posts)Hmm. Would be truth in advertising...
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)This is one site where the democratic platform is debated and discussed. "Establishment" means lining up with the moneyed interests who cater for funding from lobbyists and Wall street banks. The DLC of the dem party is an example of such entities.
DU is not. This site is part of that 47% of the vote Bernie won...and stands to support our democratic candidate Hillary Clinton if she becomes the nominee...but will always try to be progressive standing for the working man. civil rights. and economic equality. etc One place where Bernie's populist movement will play on.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)The reasons have been hashed out repeatedly. At best, HRC is the "pragmatic" lesser or two evils choice, and DU (and DailyKos) plan to hitch their wagon to that movement.
Unless HRC picks someone like Elizabeth Warren for VP, party "unity" is not guaranteed.
classykaren
(769 posts)freebrew
(1,917 posts)That's why I came here after 9-11.
Lots of progressive talk back then.
It's been a growing supporter of TPTB since 2008 or so.
It should be called 'Democratic Mainstream'.
There are still a lot of posters here that are truly Democrats.
There are a lot that AREN'T.
We were given a choice between someone that actually supported Democratic ideals
and one that is basically a Reaganite.
As usual, the majority(of Democrats) have been coerced one way or another to vote against
Democratic ideas leaving the poor and minorities out of government once again.
Sad, really.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)If you take history into account and what the Dem Party was for decades before Bill Clinton sold it out to corporate money with the DLC then it should be called "Moderate Repubican".
Look at what people are supporting on here now because Obama and Hillary:
spying on citizens
drone strikes that kill innocent civilians
TPP
cuts to SS
prosecuting whistleblowers
the 'health' INDUSTRY (not care)
compromising a woman's right to choose
fracking
big oil
big pharma
private prison industry
corporate money
Kissinger (!)
It's really sickening.
.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)long-time posters(well, high number posters) were actually celebrating the fact that the New Dem party
is basically a party takeover by 'moderate' republicans.
Actually bragging of it.
Your list encompasses the reasons that the middle class is disappearing
and the nation is headed to fascism.
brewens
(13,574 posts)We let them win everything else, might as well take it all. Kind of lost their right to be called democratic around here as far as I'm concerned.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...their own financial interests by voting for Republicans.
Now, the Democratic Party is asking me to vote against mine.
SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Yes, I joined in 2003. It seems like a lot of left-leaning folks did then too. It was so nice to have a place to vent and express ourselves as Dubya and company were destroying, along with many lives, the reputation of the US around the world.
I had always thought that the "underground" part was that this site represented the undercurrent, the liberal grassroots of the Party. That we represented those that were there to not only celebrate Democratic victories, but also to call out the DINOs like Joe Lie-berman as one example.
It will be interesting to see what happens after the 16th around here. Will it be verbotten to even post an article like this one? Or will all debate cease on anything to do with questioning the direction of the Party?
And also the fact that, even though we Bernie supporters know its over, there is no official candidate certified until July convention. Bernie has every right to take it there and fight for his proposals. Personally I fail to understand why, on Democratic Underground, Democrats will be forbidden to stump for the ideas of one of those candidates from June 16th - July 25th. Makes no sense to me.
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)That's what I thought. Silly me.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)to affect change. No short cuts. The heavy lifting must be done at the grass level. Until then, it's just all empty talk.
DemMomma4Sanders
(274 posts)If the only alternative is riots our democracy is broken.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Democrat, Republican or Whatevercran.
Long story short, the two Parties have made it so by their purposes. Voter suppression -- overt and covert -- is a necessary means to their end.
Scruffy1
(3,255 posts)Many of the people that don't vote are not apathetic or ill informed. Many refuse to endorse the candidates selected on ethical grounds. this will be true especially with Clinton. In my eyes the 2010 debacle was brought on by the Democratic Party. After the great hope fizzled into a muddled lengthy fight over minor health care "reform" with no real change. This week one of the young people that helped me at the precinct level knocked at my door with a petition to get on the ballot as a Green. The party is losing the best and the brightest.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)The made men and women of the corporate mafia might find horse heads in their beds.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)We will have to beat them at their own game by funding the national campaign to pay for House races with our candidates. We will eventually have enough power to push through Publicly Funded Elections (PFEs). When we can do that we take away the legal bribery that is the root problem that allows the wealthy and corporations to control our government, media, banking, judiciary, literally everything. Then we can start solving the many problems we face, especially Climate Change.
They are worried about us now and will use everything in their arsenal to derail our populist awakening. We must be persistent, but patient. This is the beginning of a real battle that will only end when we can stop the corruption. The scary thing is that it reminds me of some show I cannot remember the name, where these aliens take over people and you cannot tell them from real people. TPTB will have their bought off minions popping up all over, from positions of authority on down and we won't see them coming, that's where persistence comes in.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)actual progressives (who they desparage as Bernicrats) losing primaries to 3rd way corporate drones at local, state, and national legislative levels. The fix is in.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)they are too fucking stupid to understand how stupid they are....and are so proud of their ignorance...they fucking wallow in it and carry it around like some badge of honor....
KPN
(15,642 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)is comprised of critical thinkers who research our candidates and make informed decisions about their votes. I now realize I am wrong.
I cannot begin to understand how anyone can support Hi11ary. Just cannot fathom it...
KPN
(15,642 posts)SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)Do you think they have been here long?
zeemike
(18,998 posts)They read Orwell's 1984 and thought it was an instruction manual.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)Folly, thou conquerest, and I must yield!
Against stupidity the very gods
Themselves contend in vain. Exalted reason,
Resplendent daughter of the head divine,
Wise foundress of the system of the world,
Guide of the stars, who art thou then if thou,
Bound to the tail of folly's uncurbed steed,
Must, vainly shrieking with the drunken crowd,
Eyes open, plunge down headlong in the abyss.
Accursed, who striveth after noble ends,
And with deliberate wisdom forms his plans!
To the fool-king belongs the world.
- Friedrich Schiller
Alas, ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever!
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Have you read "A Confederacy of Dunces"? I often think of that book with regards to the inexplicable support for a deceitful person who's being investigated by the FBI.
elljay
(1,178 posts)There are some corollaries to it, but the basic concept is that some incompetent people are too incompetent to even recognize their own incompetence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I wonder if this applies to Hi11ary, especially when it comes to her pernicious dishonesty.
elljay
(1,178 posts)I think she's just a pure politician and it is therefore opportunistic, egotistical, duplicitous, and not to be fully trusted. Just about all of them seem to be like this to some degree or another (she to a higher degree than most). It is not a job that most people want (consider how relatively few people run for office, even for town council seats). Bernie was like a breath of fresh air. I don't know when we'll see a politician like this again.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)millionaire Democratic politicians who pander to them on social issues then sell them out on economic and employment issues.
Hillary Clinton will fracture the party along generational lines, making way for a progressive party to form left of the "New Democrats", that is, former Republicans who now run the party.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)
KPN
(15,642 posts)YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)for a hell of a long time if Bernie would of made it.
people really blew it,big time.
Jackilope
(819 posts)This isn't even Dems and GOP, this is both playing a part in the illusion so establishment gets the money and power. These elected people have already sold their souls for money .... willing to let down the little people even more.
Despicable.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)"Your vote making a difference" is just an illusion created by the PTB.
Igel
(35,300 posts)The question is, Who taught them?
It's like a lot of other things. We complain about what the belief entails, or that the belief even exists, and then insist that the belief is absolutely true.
KPN
(15,642 posts)application of rational thinking processes (this last piece is part of normal education the past 2 decades) taught them. They learned to think for themselves basically in a time when there is/has been plent of data readily available to evaluate and draw logical conclusions from.
Fenimore
(1 post)as it was being lambasted with the constant, "None of you vote. Why don't you vote?"
Well, a good portion of us don't see anyone working to represent us. Why should we go vote for someone who hasn't made any effort to earn it.
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)I did vote for Bernie but I don't know if it was counted.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...and we as a party have not capitalized on our potential windfall.
We had a chance to revitalize our party with new blood and fresh ideas, and at the same time send the Republicans into the desert to wander for 40 years. We had a chance to change the financial rules and avert this disastrous slide into inequality and actually build an organization for the working woman and man, returning to those core principles that made this country great.
But no, we have chosen the quick fix, the cosmetic improvement, the short-term "historical" gratification, the style over substance.
* * * * * * * * * <snip, end of article below> * * * * * * * * * * *
Politicians are so used to viewing the electorate as a giant thing to be manipulated that no matter what happens at the ballot, they usually can only focus on the Washington-based characters they perceive to be pulling the strings. Through this lens, the uprising among Democratic voters this year wasn't an organic expression of mass disgust, but wholly the fault of Bernie Sanders, who within the Beltway is viewed as an oddball amateur and radical who jumped the line.
Nobody saw his campaign as an honest effort to restore power to voters, because nobody in the capital even knows what that is. In the rules of palace intrigue, Sanders only made sense as a kind of self-centered huckster who made a failed play for power. And the narrative will be that with him out of the picture, the crisis is over. No person, no problem.
This inability to grasp that the problem is bigger than Bernie Sanders is a huge red flag. As Thacker puts it, the theme of this election year was widespread anger toward both parties, and both the Trump craziness and the near-miss with Sanders should have served as a warning. "The Democrats should be worried they're next," he says.
But they're not worried. Behind the palace walls, nobody ever is.
shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)Excellent post!!!
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)in a 2 party sytem the vacuum of power will drag the other party further to the right to fill the gap. The Democrat power structure no longer has to appease it's base as they literally have nowhere else to turn to. The threat of swing voters bolting is the deterrent from keeping the centre left from going too far right. Now that deterrent is being obliterated.
KPN
(15,642 posts)become the GOP.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)that dominates the right wing party to the point of irrelevance always takes on at least some substantial trappings of the centremost part of the right wing party.
It even happens in PR systems like here in Sweden, where the 80-90 year long dominant Social Democrat (Sveriges Socialdemokratiska Arbetareparti) Party (I recently left it and support the Left Party (Vänsterpartiet) aka Socialists now) has lurched to the neoliberal cause entirely too, too much.
The left ALWAYS will end up being controlled and/or steered by people who push corporatist agendas and in a direction similar, (albeit muted to some degree) to the right wing party it crushed.
The birthpangs of that in the Democratic party was neoliberalism, 3rd way, triangulation, etc.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I've seen this spouted ad naseum here by people who literally hate Bernie because they think this is what he was about.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)scottie55
(1,400 posts)The oligarchs that run it?
Hillary?
Prepare your family for another 4 years of being robbed blind by corporate scum.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Change doesn't come from the top. And it doesn't come from holding your hat and asking nicely.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:07 PM - Edit history (1)
The reason so much anger, rage, hate and obfuscation is aimed at Senator Bernie Sanders is that he had the audacity TO PULL BACK THE CURTAIN. We all know big money controls American politics, only the truly stupid or deeply deceptive would say otherwise. Indisputable fact. And previously, that is before Bernie Sanders, it was taken as gospel by both parties that you had to play the corporate big money game to be in the political game. AND BERNIE SANDERS JUST PROVED THAT IS NOT TRUE. Bernie just proved that while big money is certainly an advantage, BIG MONEY IS NOT ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL FOR POLITICAL SUCCESS. This emergent truth and its implications has big money and it servants and sycophants absolutely quaking in their boots. In one fell rebel candidacy, the relevance and necessity of the big money boys and girls is now completely in question. Yes indeedy, it has just been proven that a grass-roots movement THAT DOES NOT KOW-TOW to the corporate 1% oligarchy, cannot only survive, IT CAN THRIVE!
I suspect that shortly after I post this, the usual suspects will rush in to point out that Bernie lost the primary, with postings replete with giffage from the juvie D comic book winners circle: *POW*, *SNAP*, <crazy-assed laughter>, and oh, not to forget the ubiquitous counter-culture hero <eye-rollie gif>. Bring it on... any maybe try something half-assed original this time. Come on, be Brave.
And let's be truly and absolutely fair and honest: Sander's opponent in this primary HAS HAD EVERY ADVANTAGE possible, from the corporate advantage, the DNC advantage, the Clinton pay-for-play machine monetary and connection advantages, the media advantage, and of course the sycophants in Congress advantage. Not to mention questionable electoral infrastructure and practices in numerous primaries at the state level. Disagree if you like, BUT HAD THE PLAYING FIELD BEEN ABSOLUTELY LEVEL, WE WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE TODAY. Bernie knows this, Bernie's supporters know this. And most importantly, so do the big money boys. Oh yes. We are part of a historical paradigm shift in American politics.
And for those of you who wish Bernie would just fold his tent and limp back to Vermont, sorry, that genii is officially and irreversibly out of the bottle. This was NEVER ABOUT SENATOR SANDERS, he was just the brave, old, Jewish guy from Vermont who stepped up, picked up the banner, and said: LET'S DO THIS, we need to do this.
Thank you, Senator Sanders. Bless your heart.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Thank you.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Yes, the establishment hates him for this and that includes the upper middel class and wealthy. But I still think those who are seeing themselves fall behind, struggling financially, like the rest of us, and are not in party politics, are just deceived and don't understand Bernie and his revolution at all...because they really haven't been paying attention to what has happened to this country over the last 30 or so years, and are too busy seeing the trees instead of the forest. Like many conservatives, they just buy into what the party tells them.
I'm sure there are a lot of Jew haters out there too, or Israel supporters who hate him for daring to stand up for Palestinians.
And a lot of people who never question their party, go with the party just because they don't want to have to think any deeper. Anyone who threatens the party's choice must be evil. Especially if the party (establishment) is so against them.
At the top, the hate is driven and directed by the establishment...but get down in the ranks of the middle class and poor, and they have mostly been deceived and are too afraid to even look for other answers, and are not willing to question why he is making waves and has so many supporters. They've bought into the 'Only Hillary can beat Trump' and you must be afraid...fear is the real driver for many. That's why Hillary keeps pushing the fear buttons.
So, many different reasons for the hatred. But the main one from the top, is the one you so aptly described.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...HAS TO RELY ON THE "FEAR MOTIVATIONAL SUITE," THEY AIN'T GOT NOTHING ELSE. If you can't impress or win someone over by your strengths or what you can bring to the table, you can always motivate them by inflaming their fears or insecurities (real or imagined). Sad to say... And ANY POLITICIAN who has to rely on: "not as bad as the other guy," well... Seriously, you want me to vote for you not because you are better than the other guy, but that you are not as bad?
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)NikolaC
(1,276 posts)It's sad that so many missed the point of why Bernie ran and had so much support.
tblue37
(65,328 posts)
bonemachine
(757 posts)really rings true of the discourse we've seen around here.
Beartracks
(12,809 posts)"In the rules of palace intrigue, Sanders only made sense as a kind of self-centered huckster who made a failed play for power."
=======================
Raster
(20,998 posts)...the ONLY person I have ever had on ignore in my 13-14 years of being a member of DU...
She asked me about Bernie and what I thought he stood for and why I believed, and I wrote this impassioned little mini-essay of what I thought Bernie was trying to do and what I envisioned and hoped for the future. I really thought we were going to have a meeting-of-the-minds type discussion. She responded: "so, in other words my girl is beating the hell out of your guy," and then signed off with a shitty little hand-wavy emoji and I realized then and there: we were coming from entirely different directions and no amount of passion and empathy and understanding and communication would ever be applicable or appreciated.
Beartracks
(12,809 posts)It also provides some insight into why, perhaps, some DUers have gotten their posts blocked when they inquire about Hillary's policy positions... in the Hillary Group. Hillary fans are likely to suspect that ANY such question is just a disingenuous attempt to form a snark attack -- because, as your experience shows, that's what THEY would do.
As Trump might say, "It's sad, really."
===========================
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)mdbl
(4,973 posts)They like sex, money and Brawndo! it's got what plants crave.
I think I know exactly WHO does that little snark followed by "shitty little hand-wavy emoji." That individual has long been on my IL.
Raster
(20,998 posts)This is the prevalent Brockian meme created and promulgated for maximum penetration. Add that sauce to: (a) first female POTUS historical relevancy (Be A Part of Herstory); and (b) it's her turn (she stepped aside for Obama), and BINGO, you've got a prominent narrative that even Joseph Goebbels would be proud of.
tblue37
(65,328 posts)They smear Bernie as someone in it only for himself, to gratify his own ego.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)So very sadly true. And I can not get my head around the sort of "entrancement" they're under. They can GIVE reasons and we can GUESS at the reasons, but there's like an unseen frosting that hides the makeup of the cake to those of ignorance. If you're of that camp, you're salivating for a slice. If you're not under the spell, you see the cake for it's disgusting make-up and want not a crumb of it.
Honestly, it seems to ME that the driving force (here on DU anyway) is simply the aim of seeing a female in the oval office. One with a (D) next to it's name.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)doomed to repeat it.
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)Nobody saw his (Sanders) campaign as an honest effort to restore power to voters, because nobody in the capital even knows what that is.
By 2020, the anger will have had 4 years to simmer. Whoever gets the White House will be a one term prez.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)plenty of twists and turns. I see no reason for that to stop between now and November.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)time to get back to working three jobs to put food on the table.
The election was rigged, Bernie never had a chance. They even stopped exit polling. Supposedly 3 million ballots are missing in CA.
How is it possible to go from polling that shows Bernie lead or tie, to Hillary winning in double digits? How does Puerto Rico have only 60,000 votes when there were 388,000 votes cast in the 2008 primary?
DemMomma4Sanders
(274 posts)Not to mention videos of machines switching votes from Bernie to Hillary.
Igel
(35,300 posts)And what was their reason for the declaration?
We hear of polls that we claim are valid when they sample less than 1% of the electorate. "Gee, they didn't even count 99% of the electorate before deciding on those numbers." Thing is, often the polls are valid, if the assumptions behind them are reasonably accurate and the math involved is correct.
People don't get the math. They're innumerate.
And people don't even stop to think there are assumptions--and many who do simply don't like them, however reasonable they are. They might speak critically, but don't think critically.
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)I don't know what I'm going to do with my ballot this year. My rep, one dem senator & governor were all part of the Hillary Victory Fund superdelegate buyout, so I'm not voting for any of them.
The system isn't broken; the system is fixed.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)That would leave room for a 2nd major party to rise to the left that would listen.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)that is going to take decades and every systemic power structure, especially the Democratic party and it's bankster/Wall Street overlords will try and crush it by using the cratered yet still existent Republican party as the Goldsteinian boogeyman. The American constitutional form of government never envisioned corporatist scientific societal control at basically every multivariate level of human endeavour.
Igel
(35,300 posts)Such things are very quick to form, because as they form a lot of people that didn't have power and money get power and money. Those are huge incentives and people rush to fill in the gaps.
Whether it happens is something we'll have to travel in time to find out. A new party's formation has been prognosticated so many times it's surprising the goats used for augury haven't all gone extinct.
If you built a better vote trap, they'll beat a path to your door.
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)Start locally........vote new Democrats in to change the part. Those who have our same views.
struggle4progress
(118,278 posts)they should think bottom-up
If you want a party that won't support militarism, you have to build a significant and well-organized anti-war movement
Then you can gauge how well particular politicians support the goals of your anti-war organizations
If you want a party that supports unions, you have to build strong unions
Then you can gauge how well particular politicians support the goals of your unions
And so on
When this grass-roots organizational work doesn't occur, there's no machinery to mobilize masses of people for particular candidates
Then candidates are reduced to crafting messages based on statistics to appeal to atomized voters
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)struggle4progress
(118,278 posts)not only to elect folk who support our goals but also to lobby for those goals between elections
Or we can whine and sulk that other people have organized for the issues important to them and have used their own organization not only to elect folk who support their goals but also to lobby for those goals between elections
It's a buck dancer's choice, my friend
Netter take my advice
You know all the rules by now
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I remember you from during Occupy, S4P.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)the vast majority of change candidates at federal, state and even local levels. Until that money is ripped out of the system the country will grindingly drift ever rightward at most all governmental levels.
struggle4progress
(118,278 posts)
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)struggle4progress
(118,278 posts)for that result. Hard work -- not impossible, but hard work
NoMoreRepugs
(9,412 posts)
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)Anybody who didn't vote in this election richly deserves ANYTHING the next president does to them.
No fucking excuses. People who don't educate themselves, participate and vote are more the problem than any Trump supporter or tea partier.
I have more respect for a fervid right winger who walks the precincts and works a phone bank than someone who goes 'Yeah, Bernie is cool, I'm with ya, bro' and then doesn't get their ass to the polls; or goes into a snit and says 'I'm not going to support ....' Fuck them, they are the real problem, they deserve to fully get bent by the next president, no excuses.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)electoral process. The #1 employer in this country is Wal-Mart and they pay their workers jack with no benefits. Our public education system has been gutted and higher education is unaffordable. The media that is charged with reporting the news but spends most of its time on spin and non-stories. Voter ID laws have made it a pain to vote (limiting number of early voting days, closing down precincts, make getting ID's a mission, etc.) in addition to voter purges, voting anomalies (affiliation magically getting switched), and broken machines. Not to mention the cost of rising cable and internet services thanks to competition dwindling to a few providers.
So between earing a measly wage, expensive education, sensationalized airwaves, a corrupt voting system, and rising costs of living how exactly is the average Joe supposed to make an informed decision when everyone is lying to them and keeping them down? There's a reason why the voting participation rate is at 53.6% with 84.3% of the population registered to vote.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)I'll grant that the voter ID laws make it *difficult* but if it isn't IMPORTANT to someone then they deserve Trump.
People who are not at least as interested in elections as sports teams or dancing with the stars deserve to live in the world the Rethuglicans want. If Cable TV means more to someone than ballot propositions then they are sentencing their children to being cannon fodder for wars of imperium for the military industrial complex. If we can't get that message out LIBERALS are going to be looking back to Trump and Bush the way we look back to Ike as the days when Republicans were not completely nuts.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)especially between the two or three jobs some people are working now a days. Apparently its socially acceptable now to blame the victims of a corrupt system than to fix the mechanisms that are harming them. In California 2 million plus votes are not being counted because of problems on voting day (some of which I mentioned before). If someone took off work to vote and they get invalidated then what's the point of voting?
When the media announced that HRC was the winner two days ahead of the remaining voting states a lot of people stayed home. Why vote when someone already "won"?
Americans work longer hours because of necessity now a days thanks to outsourcing and HB1 visas. Tell me again how the Kardashians are to blame for them not wanting to vote. And for those who do take off work to vote and get invalidated, what's the benefit?
Its not that liberals don't want to get to the polls but when they get there and are screwed financially or by the voting system itself then why bother voting?
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)and NONE of them a valid reason not to vote.
Don't vote- don't gripe.
People Fight and die for the right to vote elsewhere.
So WHAT if someone works a long day. I do and work a second job. It is the most important thing a citizen can do. It is the most important thing a person is going to do all year. If it isn't important to someone then they can have President Trump, they deserve it.
Outside of being heavily armed and ensconced on a defensive position there is NOTHING you could do to stop me from voting, and even then you'd have a fight; anyone who doesn't share this ethos is part of the problem
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)You also might want to read up on vote fraud, or how to hack machines that flip the vote.
Also, do they need an education to know that Bernie didn't get to debate before the last primaries because every time he did he won overwhelmingly.
None of this is making anyone want to run vote for the same old shit.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)That is what Bernie did. I doubted that just one whack at a monumental megalith of Corporatism would be effective. Now, that we all have a visible and plausible framework and a leader...as opposed to the Occupy groups...it can coat tail through out the party. There are Senate and House Candidates who will attempt to primary the old guard.
Yes, the local aspect is true, as well. Unions, large and small. So it's starts at ALL levels.
villager
(26,001 posts)
elleng
(130,865 posts)Instead, they'll convince themselves that, as Hohmann's Post article put it, Hillary's latest victories mean any "pressure" they might have felt to change has now been "ameliorated."'
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)
tom_kelly
(958 posts)But, I checked with the owners... they said no.
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)"Brunch with Bernie" over "Brush with Bernie."
K&R
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)This explains to me why.
IronLionZion
(45,427 posts)I'm still struggling with the number of voters who nominated a hateful bloviating buffoon with no qualifications.
And I'm still pleasantly impressed with the number of voters who supported the Democratic Socialist.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)It is simple to explain. Trump tapped into a huge amount of the American electorate who have had lifetimes of "American exceptionalism" and the scientifically managed spinning of anti-government/anti-union ideology laid out as Horatio Alger capitalism striving to overcome "commie Marxists" embedded so much that they need (and desire) simplistic scapegoats (minorities, women, anything that is the "other"
to appease their anger at the actual REAL reasons for their fucked up lives. They voted against their class interest, yet will NEVER admit it. It's so easy to get people to blame others for their mistakes.
Simply put Trump is propelled by pissed off white (the vast majority of Trumpers are this) people who need to lash out at boogeymen for their own poor voting decisions.
Kall
(615 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:52 AM - Edit history (1)
I hope people here enjoy their echo chamber starting next week. I'm sure when the GOP goes after her for things like her $225,000/hour speaking fees while she was laying out another Presidential run in an era of absolute public disgust with politicians, the echo chamber here will blame Bernie, instead of holding Hillary responsible for the fact that the criticism is legitimate, foreseeable, and would have been made anyway. Never mind her errors in judgment like total disregard for the rules as confirmed by Obama's IG in setting up her email server in her house through which classified information passed, or brazen lies like the Bosnian sniper fire episode. Thanks to the Democratic nominee being Hillary Clinton, the GOP has a weapon it has never had - truth.
Yes. It's so easy to find the truth on the internet. Here on DU - not so much.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)the existing power structure, not about offering people a real choice and actual change.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)It may be (and I hope this to be the case) that the campaign run by Sanders, the strength of the progressive movement right now... and other things, have pushed Clinton to the left not just for the length of her campaign, but in a way that will remain steadfast throughout her (hopeful) future Presidency.
Another thing though... is that I think we all tend to underestimate the strength and the numbers of not just conservatives... but of ultra-right lunatics. Trump's nomination - which the media was instrumental in helping him secure... has been a victory for all of them. For people like David Duke in particular, it's almost like it's Christmas time. A hateful bigot has been nominated to lead one of our two major parties in the general. It is possible that this man could be our next President. Right wing militia groups will support him, along with the NRA, armed fringe groups, various sorts of cultists, religious extremists and others will come out of the woodwork, I expect, in numbers never before seen or expected. This is a moment in which the most ignorant, cruel, racist, bigoted... and hateful among us may manage to choose the direction this Country will ultimately move in.
All these people dreaming of the rapture, the end of days... great wars fought in the name of God... all of these people who would love nothing more than to watch everything burn for what they believe is some kind of holy calling.
I don't think we can afford to underestimate Trump. It is entirely possible that he will become the face of... the leader of the Republican party of tomorrow. There's a lot of angry people in this Country, a lot of resentment.... a great deal of ignorance... and a poorly funded educational system. Someone (Winston Churchill, I think) once said that the best argument against democracy was a five minute conversation with the average voter.
I guess it depends on whether or not we have reached a point where the average voter is someone who will vote for Trump. At this time, the polls predicting the likely outcome of the general don't mean much - it's too early. However, the fact that his showing is so strong - that he crushed of the other republican candidates... is disturbing.
There is also... as we are all well aware, quite a rift within our own party. I suspect that some progressives and liberals, some who previously supported Sanders, will cast their vote for a third party instead. I can only hope that there are not that many of them.
None of this changes the potential problems pointed out by Taibbi, but it does, I think, reveal some of the consequences of what the party has become. It is grudgingly shaking hands with the populist platform for the moment... but many of us suspect that there is a nasty surprise in that other hand - hidden behind it's back. The difference with a candidate like Sanders is that (in my opinion) he genuinely embraced that platform and even helped bring it about in the first place.
It will be interesting to see what happens going forward in any event. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed and voting for Clinton... but not without genuine concern over a possible Trump Presidency... or should Clinton win, another eight years of corporate empowerment. I think she has a chance here... to win - and to genuinely follow the right path to do so. I think she can take the message that Bernie brought and make it her own. If she chooses wisely for her VP, if she holds to the principles she has claimed, to the policies she has promoted... she could be one of the greatest Presidents in US history, even the greatest, if she has the courage to lead the way on matters of clean energy, climate change - and so on.
We'll see. At this point... who the hell knows what's going to happen next. I am disappointed and saddened by Bernie's loss, but I'm far from giving up.
elljay
(1,178 posts)Hillary and Trump. The majority found that Trump was most likely to effect change and Hillary was most likely to follow establishment rules. There are many angry people out there who don't agree with Trump's racism, but who are so hungry for change that they will vote for him anyway rather than for the establishment candidate. From what I am seeing from Hillary supporters, many are so in love with their candidate that they are blinded to this and believe that anyone who votes for Trump is a racist. This is a critical mistake because they will arrogantly insult fed-up people who just want change and drive them towards Trump.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I have more faith in American people than that. But, that's just me.
elljay
(1,178 posts)You have decided that his racism etc is the most important factor. Well, maybe for you but there are plenty of people for whom it is not. Times are desperate for people who lost their jobs when factories relocated overseas. When you are hungry and have no hope, and your choice is between a racist who promises to bring back your job and an establishment candidate who promises to use the President who signed NAFTA to drive job creation, the choice is not so clear.
mdbl
(4,973 posts)I thought Reagan was stupid enough, but when those two nefarious morons were allowed, I knew any weirdo could become our president. You give this country way too much credit.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)That does lead one to question then, what other reasons they may have for voting for Trump. No... he won't likely follow any rules but his own - and yes, he would likely make change... but the change he would make, based on his principles, policies, what he has indicated...?
We can include stupid as an option right after racist. Then we might suggest ignorant - and, in many, many cases, throw them all together when it comes to Trump supporters.
If people wanted any level of positive change, with someone who was anti-establishment, not racist - and so on... then Bernie was their option. If they want to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, roll back any level of financial regulation, give tax breaks to the rich, undo decades of civil rights work and convince the world that Americans are assholes... well, then their choice is also clear.
Wanting change is one thing. There are many good changes that a lot of us, perhaps even most of us, want - and would like to see happen. The sort of changes I have heard Trump speak of though, seem likely to take us back in time, to ignore the needs of the many in favor of the wants of the wealthy few... that's just getting started.
Part of the problem is our broken education system. Another part is the corporate media... but those people who are NOT racist idiots who are voting for Trump? They're either not paying attention, or they can't read.
stopwastingmymoney
(2,041 posts)The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)
840high
(17,196 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)They'll just smugly pat themselves on the back, and maybe a few years from now wonder why everyone's leaving the party.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)Sadly on point in my book. Hillary has some off the books campaign debt should she win. A lot she can do just by doing nothing on certain issues. Both Party's will help her out to pass bills quietly for her to sign late Friday evening. Many of them being being beneficiaries of some Clinton donor cash themselves.
I believe she will prove Bernie's point in the end. Sure she will try to throw us a bone by pushing for a few things that we like, but Congress will defeat whatever Bill one of her surrogates files without her ever having to actually sign it.
surrealAmerican
(11,360 posts)... to regroup, rebrand, and dominate the political landscape for years to come.
I sure do hope I'm wrong about that, but I've seen it before, and it looks pretty likely this time too.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)Response to antigop (Original post)
Post removed
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)of true banking/Wall street reform, empiric wars, universal health care, tuition reduction or (preferably) abatement at tertiary level, and ending horrific multinational trade agreements we are greeted with derision, scorn, appeal to authority, might-makes-right voting math and/or also called RIGHT WING PLANTS secretly working for that motherfucker Trump!
Of course its become a foxhole environment.
scottie55
(1,400 posts)Darn him!
If you don't think our government is completely corrupt, you are from a different planet.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If you're done with your own kicking and screaming, we can move on. In fact, even if you're not done, moving on. Later, Con.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)AntiBank
(1,339 posts)in the Repupicans, a party that is doomed to demographic and ideological failure, the systemic controllers are simply subsuming the Democratic party as the new corporatist centre right (at the truly massive issues of war, banking/financial control, trade, education and surveillance state) whilst drawing moderates and keeping, even expanding it's lock grip over the vast numbers of the working class and minorities. It will be moderate left on some social wedge issues to keep the base appeased. The Democratic establishment no longer has to be progressive at its core, it can simply take it's traditional base for granted as the other option in the controlled 2 party system has went off the tracks so hard the Democratic base will never revolt.
shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)The vacuum in the middle (a middle that has been migrating to the right year after year) you speak of has been filled with the democratic party for the last 40 years. The democrats haven't been a party of labor for decades and hasn't been progressive at its core since the sixties.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)AntiBank
(1,339 posts)
c-ville rook
(45 posts)it is like that old alleged Steinbeck quote:
Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
It's part of what makes America a great and interesting place. Most think they will make it and do it only through their sheer force of will. The negative of course being this attitude leads to neglect of the social contract and social cohesion. Because if I can make it on my own -- why can't you? Even though our circumstances have no resemblance.
In my opinion we will not see a truly progressive and/or populist movement or agenda until it is too late and something horrible happens. Then they will be quickly ushered in and will fail -- because of the situation or the system or blatant obstruction by the "former" powers or (d) all the above. Then the "former" powers will be immediately swept out of office because "See it did not work. We told you so." like some reoccurring abusive boyfriend and the machine will go on.
Look at The Great Depression -- FDR programs start working. The Right screams about deficits. The administration adjusts in an attempt to lower deficits -- so they cut spending too early. Economy dips. To this day conservatives use this to claim FDR programs did not work.
2008: Economic collapse. Bail out and Obama (okay he is not super liberal, still more so than his predecessor in some ways). Congress becomes Democratic. Before almost anything can be can electorate turns the Congress over to the GOP because attempts to fix the economy are a "failure" and -- yes -- "Obama is a super, secret Muslim." Okay fine.
Short version:
Americans are not terribly patience on the whole or bright. Nor do they have a great depth of historical knowledge or make obvious connections readily.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Guys who woke up to realize they were in their mid to late 50s and weren't going to get rich after all.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)Let's face it, no one ever went broke underestimating the American Public. Also, lets not forget the racist assholes and bigots on the right, mostly. You do have those who have a general sense of what's happening, albeit with different interpretations and conclusions, but they are more and more the outliers.
Still, with all that said, "the people" do know one thing very well. That is, they are getting fucked in the ass for way to long and neither party is really addressing the issue of this long term fucking. So, this has opened up the possibilities of someone like Bernie, a visionary who is reminding people how things could be and in some cases were, that we can do this together, and Trump, a demagogue not unlike Hitler or others in history.
Where it will go is not known. God help us all!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They would interview their reporters on the ground for a "I don't understand the appeal - who are these people?" type question.
FighttheFuture
(1,313 posts)as when he would be critical of the media or layout certain proposals.
phazed0
(745 posts)dchill
(38,471 posts)tblue37
(65,328 posts)Upton Sinclair:
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)They're too busy cheering on Hillary, giving each other slaps on the back, and trying to figure out who she will pick to be her VP candidate.
Meanwhile, back at the FBI's HQ in DC, they are getting ready to finalize their report on Clinton.
So, before anybody orders 1000's and 1000's of balloons for the big celebratory convention, they had better keep their eyes and ears open for some bad news about her.
Oh well, there's always 2020, or 2024, or maybe 2028.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)At this points, it's all about whose team you're on, nothing more. And I've never been a team player.
Sure, I supposed this is historical. But so was Thatcher, so...
I really resent the fact that I am supposed to cheer Hillary or vote for her because she's a woman, because, you know, it's history. If people don't come out and say that, at least it's implied.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...this primary season has been the equivalent of the Friday Night Homecoming Football Game, complete with cheerleaders and a marching band. The overreaching motivators seem to win at all costs and look good doing it. Doesn't matter if you cheat, the end ALWAYS justifies the means.
Harriety
(298 posts)Knowing how hard Sen. Sanders has fought and knowing he cannot win the nomination as too many political forces are agin him, I have heard Joe Biden's name tossed about. I think he is another person who stands for decency and integrity. He has always been his own person, and he tells it like it is.
Isn't that what the right-wing people admire so much about Trump? They are alway using that catch phrase of Trump telling it like it is. So..... wouldn't Biden have made a much better sparring partner against Trump?
Just a thought. I really don't see how it could happen, but.....
djean111
(14,255 posts)I am done with that.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)Which is why I will be unaffiliated, for the first time in my long life, after I vote for one of the few progressives in the Florida primary, for Rubio's seat, in August. Then I am out.
Nope. The party is in full taking cash and inflicting war mode now, and is just counting on disaffected GOP voters.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)The Democratic Party knows this, the Republican Party knows this, the Ruling Class knows this- and they've been astonishingly successful at making sure the Working Class never learns this." ~ Anonymous
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)The current system seems to be working pretty well for their owners.
It's a lot like professional sports.
The owners make lots of money no matter which team wins.
The only way changes will happen is if the profit motive is removed.
Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)And that describes much of the lack of "unity" that grew on this Website.
Whatever Sanders supporters may have said, there was no shortage of "smugness" from the Clinton camp.
And yes, I know Clinton supporters thought Sanders supporters were "smug" as well.
Both sides share responsibility for what happened here. Both.
And no, that does not describe every Sanders supporter and every Clinton supporter. Some people just tried to carry on a conversation and had to deal with the "one-upsmanship" crap while doing so.
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)If Hillary Clinton has a very reputable progressive as her vice-presidential running mate here in 2016; wins election to become the nation’s 45th president; and wins re-election in 2020 … this Rolling Stone column, by Matt Taibbi, will end up being wrong.
Bernie Sanders has his support—especially from the Democratic Party’s voting-age base group of 18–29 voters—because of his platform.
The perceived strengths between Hillary and Bernie are with foreign (Hillary) vs. domestic (Bernie) policies.
Most winning presidential/vice-presidential tickets will be a pair where one is better than the other on one of those two fronts (and the v.p. is better with the opposite).
If Bernie was going to be the presidential nominee, he would need someone better on foreign for his v.p.
Since this presidential nomination will go to Hillary, she is going to need someone better on domestic.
It is understandable why Elizabeth Warren is on the radar. As Bernie’s running mate, it may not be enough contrast. (They are aligned on domestic without sufficient experience on foreign.) As a running mate for Hillary, an argument could be made that Hillary would be selecting the fellow Democrat who is more in touch than all established Democrats with domestic issues. (This is on the premise that Hillary and Bernie would not have been right for each other to run on the same ticket. Maybe. Maybe not.)
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)What a fantabulous article.. the PTB need to take head... not that they will, the ivory towers that they reside in "shine bright like a diamond"..
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)Dem leadership has been doing this for 35 years.
I'm so disgusted I may throw my ballot in the trash this year.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)…are not "too dense to listen". They know very well what we're saying.
But they are determined and dedicated to acing us out of any influence—the strategy of scaring us with Trump and giving us "progressivey"
rhetoric is their full plan.
They are thrilled to have Trump to run against. And our fear of him will probably work.
Not looking forward to the coming campaign at all and will tune it out. Will show up on election day and do my duty. But it's become a Potemkin Village that will raise and spend billions on ads for TV etc. and be the same old, same old DLC way of running the economy and foreign affairs. The gender will change but not the corporate control.
(Dread the endless cycle of scandal the Repugs will dog her with. Costing millions. Bernie has none of that baggage. But, oh well.)
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)Unfortunately, their private bank accounts don't grow so much when they do that.
Someone famous once said, "You cannot serve both The People and mammon."
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)And that is exactly why the current pseudo-center/would have been Republican in the 80's crew is doubling down hard; they know that people have seen through them. They can no longer pretend to be some helpless character tied to the tracks while those mean old republicans hide all the goods. They know that they have been the team that throws every game and gets a paycheck from the Rich men, who go ahead and say "buy your people a little consolation prize, and if you can, find a way I can still make money off it." Whether it is the snark factory at MSNBC, or the gang of people on DU who seriously defend "reforming" Social Security and other programs, or defend Democrats supporting GOP policies because "whacha gonna do, it's a red state", or "hey, the kid was threatening, it has nothing to do with his skin color", whether it is any of these and ten thousand candy coated lies, we know the truth.
And these people know that the next step is replacing them with people that will at least TRY to become COMPETENT. Call it outsourcing, save that we are just tossing people OUT.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)Amazing talent - predicting the future. Magical.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)This is the salient quote for me. The Villagers (most of them at least) are blind to what is actually going on.
Unlike a lot of people here, I don't dismiss Trump voters are merely racist. Sure, there is an element of that, and probably the most vocal are. But there is a lot wrong out there that the Democratic establishment is not hearing either (see Thomas Frank for examples of this).
I sincerely hope Warren is not chosen as VP. Not that she wouldn't be good, but it would be a complete waste of her abilities as a thorn in the side of the establishment. She can and does do a lot more good where she is right now. Plus, she can be a thorn in Hillary's side, which she will desperately need.
But I fear Taibbi is right when he says Democrats will not learn from this. They never do.
midnight
(26,624 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,012 posts)Lots of that here as well.
"If the party threw its weight behind a truly populist platform, if it stood behind unions and prosecuted Wall Street criminals and stopped taking giant gobs of cash from every crooked transnational bank and job-exporting manufacturer in the world, they would win every election season in a landslide."
stopbush
(24,396 posts)by the sense of all-knowing entitlement.
You lost. It happens. Move on.
2cannan
(344 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)know me by that moniker. I see no reason to change it.
2cannan
(344 posts)supporters to move on already and it's only been 4 days! And Bushit has been gone for a while now. However, I agree there's a need to be vigilant to stop all Bushes since there are still some younger ones who could try for the presidency in the future.
TonyPDX
(962 posts)I usually agree with Matt Taibbi, but this primary campaign was no "Brush with Bernie," it was a declaration and validation of today's progressive values. Bernie isn't leaving. He unquestionably represents millions of Americans and his continued influence should not be underestimated. The ordinary, underrepresented people who turned out to see him realized that they were not alone, and many now feel emboldened to continue the struggle by advocating for themselves.
I believe we're just getting started.
TGIF!
valerief
(53,235 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)And you thought it was just on DU!
Response to antigop (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Tarc
(10,476 posts)"Bernie didn't win, therefore there must be something wrong with the Hillary voters".
These people, like Bernie himself, have no ability for self-reflection, no way to see the where and the why of the 16,000,000 people that did not vote for him in the primaries.
bjobotts
(9,141 posts)If independent were allowed to vote he would have wiped Hillary out. Keep in mind, 53% of the dem votes is not a majority of voters...just dems. Bernie stood for what the majority of voters claim they want according to the polls and unless Hillary stands for some of what the majority of Americans claim they want we will lose this election. So far it is accepted that Hillary stands for the banks and wall street and the 1% more than she does the 99%. "No ability for self reflection"...only a very shallow person would make such a claim. He will not be dismissed or silenced like MSM would like, going all the way to the convention so his populist movement will be heard loud and clear and become part of the dem platform. His 'populist' movement is why he beats Trump by much larger numbers than Hillary according to the polls...because he stands for what the majority want. You're the one who needs some self reflection. BTW...60,000 people showed up for one Bernie rally, 30,000 at another rally...he broke all the records and would easily win the presidency plus down ticket success from all the inspired activists. His political revolution will continue on long after the convention. He has brought so much to the party. but all you see is a horse race.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)You really don't understand the concept of a political party, do you?
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)You don't know that independents can't vote in the primaries in many states they had to be registered Dem. or Rep. That cost millions of votes. 3 million in New York.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)If you're interested in the party, register.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...THAN YOU PAY FOR IT!!! Don't use my tax dollars to subsidize your private club and exclusive political playpen.
And if your candidate is so damned wonderful, what are you afraid of?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)"I don't have kids, I don't want my taxes to pay for teacher salaries."
"I don't drive, I don't want my taxes to go to road construction."
and so on.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Teacher's salaries are a necessity and benefit all.
The same with infrastructure.
No primaries benefit only a few, paid for by all.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)You pay taxes, your reps decide where they go.
We will see more closed primaries in 2024.
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)Response to antigop (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Corruption Inc
(1,568 posts)Add it to the list of soon-to-be banned publications.
afertal
(148 posts)..is the basic problem. We are limited to the candidate chosen by two private enterprises who create barriers to entry for non-party and/or independent candidates and graciously grant us an opportunity to provide input by some bizarre, arbitrary, and inconsistent process that they control, and that is different in every locality.
What a country!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It's so difficult to get a clear picture of a system from inside that system.
certainot
(9,090 posts)the left ignores rw radio - and it's not fair to truly liberal candidates like sanders and warren and wellstone
money in politics? here's the simple math:
at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 stations, rw talk radio is worth 4.68 BIL$/ year or 390MIL$ /month FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican wall st think tank propaganda, free market deregulation bullshit, swiftboating, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.
ignoring 25 years of that and continuing to do so is the biggest political mistake in history and when commentators like tiabbi don't factor it into their evaluations those who listen to them end up flailing uselessly at the symptoms and getting nowhere
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)get for another fifty years. even ignoring sanders supporters would have been surviveable. instead they insulted them, called them racist, lied about them, suppressed their votes, and then told them their votes don't count . all so they could nominate a conservative with the fbi on her tail. farewell to the party that brought us the civil rights act, voting rights act, social security, Medicare, and Medicaid. hello to the party of tpp, fracking, and heritage care
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)So absolutely true!
Unfortunately the Koch-funded effort to transform the Democratic Party into Republican-Lite succeeded
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)sandyshoes17
(657 posts)Soon as AP called it for hrc, the media turned on trump. He said worse in the past, why now. They've disenfranchised the left now their ready to do the same on the right. They will replace him, his supporters will be kicked to the curb. Voter turn out will be so low. And the machines will give it to the repub. they did it to the left, they will do it to the right also. I can see it coming. We blew it
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)No matter what the media says Trump is wildly popular. Republican turn-out was way better than the democrat's. That's what the analyst said. They said he will beat the dems. in Nov.
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)That we found and rejected somebody willing to do that is tragic.
Now "GOP Light" is going to be characterized as extreme left wing socialism. And when it fails to help middle class workers from continuing to lose ground, the continued rightward shift, will proceed even if the GOP dies out.
senz
(11,945 posts)How could Matt Taibbi not know this?
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2016, 05:59 PM - Edit history (2)
Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts absolutely? (For those of you here from the Beltway, that is not my thought; it is Orwell's.)
Forty years of the Democratic Leaders being complicit with the people on the other side of the aisle.
For instance, we would have had Geithner giving the Middle Class economy away to Wall Street, regardless of who got in - Obama or McCain.
Both Parties only care about Monsanto and Big Ag firms. So no one can eat anything without Prilosec, these days. Meanwhile the for profit segment "Health Care" of our society has never done better.
San Francisco Chronicle had an entire article about how difficult it is for the small business owners and indie contractors to be able to deal with Obama's ACA, as it is a mandate on small businesses, who better pay up, and shut up!! or else pay more in taxes. (As if not paying enough already.) And other local TV stations are pointing out how many people pay for health insurance, but with exception of high cholesterol meds and vaccines being free, the treatments that are needed are too often DENIED! SO who does this all help?
So in the end, except for abortion, solar power and a few other more minor things, we have watched BOTH PARTIES ruin our democracy.
LS_Editor
(893 posts)mdbl
(4,973 posts)Anyone want popcorn?
Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)Get all money out of politics by providing public funds to any candidate running for any office. Most politicians spend more time raising money than they do legislating. If they don't have to worry about having the money to run for office, they will not beholden to big money interests.
Stainless
(718 posts)The Democratic Party has now occupied the part of the political spectrum that was once (50 years ago) claimed by main stream Republicans. The USA now has a two-party political system that consists of an insanely extreme far right-wing party (Republican) and a corporate controlled right-wing party (Democrat).
Many voters are becoming sick and tired of needing to choose between the lesser of two evils. Bernie was a breath of fresh air in the sewer that is our broken political selection process.
SouthernDemLinda
(182 posts)Do they think we haven't noticed (the looks) from all of them with their insincere words of praise for Bernie Sanders. While he gets the cold shoulder Elisabeth Warren gets invited to their house, and don't forget it.
Gman
(24,780 posts)He's out on a limb more often than not.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)She should have gotten off of the national stage over 2 years ago, right after she found out the FBI was investigating her for the 4 years she spent serving as Secretary of State!!
I don't know what she was thinking, but it isn't going to deter fate.
Gman
(24,780 posts)That must be a pretty obscure right wing site you got that off of. I'd like to see a link. Out of pure morbid curiosity I like to browse through their really insane articles.
still_one
(92,136 posts)Taibbi, because obviously he is of the view that only the Sanders campaign was relevant.
Taibbi has a history of trashing anyone who doesn't agree with him.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)for screwing the vast majority of people.
"We HAD to deregulate, privatize, cut education spending, start that war, starve that country into submission to Wall Street because the Republicans would have done it much more cruelly and openly enjoyed it."
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)they would risk losing billions in corporate bribes. No, I meant corporate free speech directed to Democrats.
annavictorious
(934 posts)Lesson #2: Aging hipsters desperately trying to remain relevant have crappy judgment.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)Thanks for the thread, antigop.
