THOMAS FRANK ON HOW DEMOCRATS WENT FROM BEING THE ‘PARTY OF THE PEOPLE’ TO THE PARTY OF RICH ELITES

[elleng]

Democrats have gone from the party of the New Deal to a party that is defending mass inequality.

'THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS ONCE THE PARTY OF THE NEW DEAL and the ally of organized labor. But by the time of Bill Clinton's presidency, it had become the enemy of New Deal programs like welfare and Social Security and the champion of free trade deals. What explains this apparent reversal? Thomas Frank—best known for his analysis of the Republican Party base in What's the Matter with Kansas?—attempts to answer this question in his latest book, Listen Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?

According to Frank, popular explanations which blame corporate lobby groups and the growing power of money in politics are insufficient. Frank instead points to a decision by Democratic Party elites in the 1970s to marginalize labor unions and transform from the party of the working class to the party of the professional class. In so doing, the Democratic Party radically changed the way it understood social problems and how to solve them, trading in the principle of solidarity for the principle of competitive individualism and meritocracy. The end result is that the party which created the New Deal and helped create the middle class has now become “the party of mass inequality.” In These Times spoke with Frank recently about the book via telephone.

The book is about how the Democratic Party turned its back on working people and now pursues policies that actually increase inequality. What are the policies or ideological commitments in the Democratic Party that make you think this?

The first piece of evidence is what’s happened since the financial crisis. This is the great story of our time. Inequality has actually gotten worse since then, which is a remarkable thing. This is under a Democratic president who we were assured (or warned) was the most liberal or radical president we would ever see. Yet inequality has gotten worse, and the gains since the financial crisis, since the recovery began, have gone entirely to the top 10 percent of the income distribution.'>>>

http://inthesetimes.com/features/listen-liberal-thomas-frank-democratic-party-elites-inequality.html


Frank was interviewed on the PBS NewsHour tonight.

[Trust Buster]

1. Then Thomas Frank's is free to start a Party that will make him happy.

[jalan48]

22. Careful what you wish for-

[truedelphi]

85. ^^^^^^^^. n/t

[wallyworld2]

23. There's

a vision of hope and change.

Service economy and TPP here we come.

Bye bye Social Security and Medicare

Hello free market solutions

I can't wait for some @ssholes like the one who run my company, running the nation

[libdem4life]

27. Typical internet warrior comment to an intelligent, published writer who

actually thinks...and makes points. Beats the one liners all to heck and gone...see above.

Punctuation Note: Then Thomas Frank is free...or Then Thomas Frank's free.

I only play grammar police when someone is criticizing someone else. In this case a Writer, of all things. LOL

[turbinetree]

33. Well said------------------

Honk----------------for a political revolution

[libdem4life]

41. Yeah, but we are all silent internet warriors, to be truthful.

Have to use our words to make a ruckus.

[turbinetree]

74. I agree -----------But this is what starts a political revolution ---------------------

the grass roots, and we are the grass roots, in a lot of ways, we are the continuation of past we have a bigger means to get the message out




Honk---------------for a political revolution

[840high]

29. That's it?

[Scootaloo]

45. Does your vision of the Democratic Party include any standards or expectations?

Or is simply being named "The Democratic Party" enough?

Is there any room for improvement, or are we perfect right now and forever?

[99th_Monkey]

64. +100 Everything is apparently just fine for TrustBuster, so ...

everyone else can just fuck off and die.

[ChiciB1]

47. Thomas Frank Was Part Of THE Party He Talks About!

IF you were REALLY interested in finding out WHY he wrote his latest book and the ones preceding it you would understand WHY he wrote them!

I finished reading "Listen Liberal" over Memorial Day week end and still had time to enjoy myself at our place on a lake and celebrate my middle aged daughter's birthday party I planned for her. It was A VERY EASY read jammed full of EXTREMELY essential facts about how THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY got the way it is today. I honestly feel every Democrat should read this book and to take a long HARD look at what the Party has become.

Absolutely full of facts and footnotes that's very well researched and presented in a way that's crystal clear and hard to argue with. HE IS talking about what was ONCE the Democratic Party so telling him to start his own party tells ME a lot about what you don't know.

I DOUBT you'll even give the book a second thought, but "inquisitive minds" sometimes DO REALLY want to know.

Again I say, it's an easy read but so full of REAL information. He's done a masterful job with this book and as always he's able to capture so much reality that makes you think deeply and feel a sense of so much LOST!

YOU are part of The Party that has been changed by the facts in this book!

[KPN]

65. Lol! There you go again ...

giving the arrogant bum rush to anything that questions or criticizes the Democratic Party leadership.

[rhett o rick]

82. No we the People need to kick out the corporatists out of our party. They can start

their own party.

[PatrickforO]

83. Sorry, I'm with Frank. Either the Democratic Party is going to begin actually representing

me, my family and my kitchen table economic issues, or else I'm going to quit supporting them. I want, insist on, policies that will actually make my life better instead of funneling yet more of my tax money into the MIC. They had better let Bernie make the platform and then STICK TO IT. Do that, and the Dems will win election after election with smashing majorities. Don't and the party will be a shell in ten years.

[NorthCarolina]

84. From your lips to Gods ears...

I would be SO happy.

[arcane1]

2. His newest book answered many, many questions.

Quite an eye-opener!

[elleng]

3. Yes, that's what the interview focused on.

[merrifield]

10. Yes!

I think it's one of the most important books I've read regarding politics. I encourage everyone to read it. It explains so much. I look at all politics through this lense now.

[babylonsister]

4. Sadly, I think this rings true. nt

[elleng]

5. Yes, love, it does.

'Our,' our parents' Democratic party, IS no more.

for you, anyway.

[840high]

31. My Dad would be horrified. RIP Dad.

[colsohlibgal]

6. He Spells It Out Quite Well

He even found copies of documents recommending the move to give not much more than lip service to their historic blue collar constituency and instead do the bidding of the top 10 or so percent, the professionals, the well educated and well heeled.

And so here we are on this last day I guess to point this out.....here.

[elleng]

8. Right, here we are.

Hope we can stick together, here or somewhere (whatever good it will do.)

[ChiciB1]

50. As I'm Reading These Post By Those Who've Read The Book It's Very Clear

that we've ALL received his message and are so much more informed and our comments seem to be one and the same.

Quite amazing that each of us just "feel it" the way he wrote it. If my parents came back today and saw what's happened I can't imagine what they would say. Especially my father who introduced me to politics when I was 11 years old. I remember the simple talks we would have that made me decide that I would be a true Democrat when I got old enough to vote! Not to say there weren't times when he would be very upset by issues and legislation, but I always felt comfortable being a Democrat anyway.

That was some time ago... Kind of breaks one's heart.

[KoKo]

87. +! Thanks..!

[seabeckind]

7. As I posted a while ago...

The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was a non-profit 501(c)(4) corporation founded in 1985 that, upon its formation, argued the United States Democratic Party should shift away from the leftward turn it took in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. The DLC hailed President Bill Clinton as proof of the viability of Third Way politicians and as a DLC success story.

The DLC's affiliated think tank is the Progressive Policy Institute. Democrats who adhere to the DLC's philosophy often call themselves New Democrats. This term is also used by other groups who have similar views on where the party should go in the future, like NDN and Third Way.

On February 7, 2011, Politico reported that the DLC would dissolve, and would do so as early as the following week. On July 5 of that year, DLC founder Al From announced in a statement on the organization's website that the historical records of the DLC have been purchased by the Clinton Foundation. The DLC's last chairman was former Representative Harold Ford of Tennessee, and its vice chair was Senator Thomas R. Carper of Delaware. Its CEO was Bruce Reed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

[elleng]

9. Thanks,seabeckind.

Guess it's been 'ignored,' eh???

[seabeckind]

11. The list of chairs is very telling.

Pure third way.

Rep. Dick Gephardt of Missouri (1985–1986)
Gov. Chuck Robb of Virginia (1986–1988)
Sen. Sam Nunn of Georgia (1988–1990)
Gov. Bill Clinton of Arkansas (1990–1991)
Sen. John Breaux of Louisiana (1991–1993)
Rep. Dave McCurdy of Oklahoma (1993–1995)
Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut (1995–2001)
Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana (2001–2005)
Gov. Tom Vilsack of Iowa (2005–2007)
Fmr. Rep. Harold Ford of Tennessee (2007–2011)

[elleng]

12. Right but actually

who else was there???

[seabeckind]

13. You are correct. It gets pretty nasty when you dig a little.

Like the Progressive Policy Institute:

The Progressive Policy Institute is an independent, innovative and high-impact D.C.-based think tank founded in 1989. As the original “idea mill” for President Bill Clinton’s New Democrats, PPI has a long legacy of promoting break-the-mold ideas aimed at economic growth, national security and modern, performance-based government. Today, PPI’s unique mix of political realism and policy innovation continues to make it a leading source of pragmatic and creative ideas. PPI is a non-profit, 501(c)(3) organization.

We seek to advance progressive, market-friendly ideas that promote American innovation, economic growth and wider opportunity. Our work focuses on four main areas:

Competitiveness and the “production economy.” We believe in regenerating America’s capacity to produce—ideas and services as well as goods. Our work focuses on removing governmental barriers to innovation, including antitrust, and regulatory reform; tax policy; trade; education and workforce development; infrastructure and telecom.
Energy. As supporters of all-of-the-above “energy realism,” we focus on natural gas, nuclear and renewables as keys to greater energy independence and new jobs.

http://www.progressivepolicy.org/about/

Sure sounds like a merger of the republican and democratic parties, doesn't it?

[elleng]

14. Thanks for this.

Will get into it later. Have just unplugged from politics and into 'amusements' at the moment, death penalty case on The Good Wife.

I appreciate it a lot, tho, even tho it adds to our misery.

[ChiciB1]

51. Yeah, I'm Into The Last Episodes of Bloodlines...

Thanks for posting, loved it!

[elleng]

15. And here we are:

'removing governmental barriers to innovation, including antitrust, and regulatory reform; tax policy; trade; education and workforce development; infrastructure and telecom.'

[zeemike]

20. Well we can't say they did not tell us.

But we did not pay attention because they had our eyes focused on the shiney things.

So the two party system merged into a one party system and the one party merged with the corporate system and here we are.
In a kinder. gentler form of what could be called neo fascism if you accept Mussolini's description of it.

[swhisper1]

39. interesting breakdown

[wallyworld2]

25. Healthy Forrest act

Nothing healthy about it.

The double speak names are a dead give away

[PoliticalMalcontent]

53. No comment, just a long drawn out sigh at the sight of this list.

[KoKo]

88. Recommend for Background...

[certainot]

16. and he made no mention of the single most important factor

he's doing what anyone can do - write and talk about the symptoms and results of ignoring 1200 think tank coordinated radio stations while it pushed the country right 20 points and the left committed the biggest political mistake in history by giving it a free speech free ride. - why the fuck else is trump 'acceptable'? - political cycles? money in politics? strategy by authoritarians who provided strategies to satisfy blue dogs and corporations? all pushed by republicans, with remedies suggested by democrats obstructed by republicans enabled by well coordinated minority made-to-order teabag dittohead constituencies

it's like my mother telling me its the overpopulation - sure, what about all the things we could have done to help educate women and make contraception available?

at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 stations, rw talk radio is worth 4.68 BIL$/ year or 390MIL$ /month FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican wall st think tank propaganda, free market deregulation bullshit, swiftboating, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.

[elleng]

17. he did mention antitrust, didn't he?

enforcement has fallen dismally by the wayside.

[certainot]

21. once reagan killed the fairness doctrine they bought 500 stations

for limbaugh and 500 more for other blowhards reinforcing the same message - that was 9 years before clinton signed the telcom act- they didn't need consolidation

and all during that 9 years they were beating the country with deregulation bullshit

[freebrew]

58. The worst mistake in our lifetime...nt

[certainot]

62. imo the biggest political mistake in history considering

considering the time lost on global warming by giving rw radio a free speech free ride to enable all that global warming denial and republicans in general......

[freebrew]

63. +1...nt

[AtomicKitten]

18. THIS is why Bernie Sanders ran for POTUS.

I recall an interview Bernie gave in early 2015 stating if Hillary wins the White House it is over for the New Deal Democrats. I have racked my brain and looked everywhere, and cannot locate the interview but I recall it like it was yesterday. He said he was deferring to Elizabeth Warren to run as they would run on the same platform and their candidacies would be redundant. When Elizabeth declined decisively (I have a Draft Elizabeth Warren bumper sticker on my desk ), Bernie threw his hat in the ring. He knew what Hillary's candidacy meant and threw himself out there to prevent the complete surrender of the Democratic Party to Wall Street, corporations, and special interests. The rise of super PACs within the caucuses of the Democratic Party and DNC is disheartening. It took me a long, long time here on DU to face this truth.

Good interview. k/r

[elleng]

19. Yes, exactly.

[Marie Marie]

24. Exactly why I supported Bernie.

[wallyworld2]

26. I hope

You're still supportin him despite the election

His populist message needs to continue well past this election

[Marie Marie]

32. Yup!

[libdem4life]

36. Absolutely. Books like this happen as a Sea Change is beginning.

This election cycle, I believe, is a 100th Monkey event. Bernie was the reluctant leader. That's how I know we was the "chosen one". He didn't want to, but he's fighting like hell now he's in there.

There will be more. More people will wake up. Clinton was the Republican's Reagan. And Clinton v. 2 will sell us down the river, to the tune of 6 figure speeches. That's the river.

We have the age old worker/management issue. Bernie marches with workers. (note that Union Leaders have become Corporate...Hillary backers.) Hillary speaks words of glee to Goldman Sachs. This is a chasm a mile wide. There is no compromise. The American People are going to have to throw in with one of them. The third option, well, just is not.

But it is happening. I call this the Let Them Eat Cake period. We know what comes next.

[840high]

40. I am.

[panader0]

38. Yes. And to think so many HRC supporters accuse him of having a huge ego.

He did it (throw his hat in the ring) for the good of the nation.
I have nothing but admiration for Bernie.

[elleng]

48. That so amazes me, pander0,

like they really don't understand his motivation.

[djean111]

56. They considered anyone who dared run against Hillary to have a huge ego.

The hue and cry when Hillary first "declared" was that we didn't even need a primary - it would just waste money and give the GOP ammunition. Like Hillary does not have access to big money, and like a ten year old with a tablet could not do effective oppo research on Hillary.

[alarimer]

59. I suspect most of them are not all that interested in these issues

Some may genuinely be kind of conservative on these issues; for others, it's more of a team thing. If her opponent is for something, they must be against it.

Just like drone bombing has become okay (among some) because it's Obama doing it.

[KPN]

67. +1! Spit on.

[Duval]

43. We need Bernie.

Here's hoping more will wake up to the truth before we continue down this road.

[SmittynMo]

28. And guess what

According to popular vote, and the ignorance of super delegates, we the dumbasses, are going to completely ignore this information, and continue down the inequality path 4 MORE YEARS. We had our shot to turn this around, but NOOOOOOO, we can't allow the elites to lose. Whaaaaat?????

The key:
"a decision by Democratic Party elites in the 1970s to marginalize labor unions and transform from the party of the working class to the party of the professional class".

They pulled this shit right in front of us and we just ignored it. NOT ANY MORE!!!!

[elleng]

42. Yes, they pulled it then BUT

it's happening again, with dems holding to 'no change,' unless by some set of miracles Senator Sanders and we the people can persuade/force 'new' Dem regime to resurrect the old time Dem party.

[ChiciB1]

52. I'm Right There With You... NOT ANY MORE! n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

30. This is such bullshit. If this were the case Social Security

Would have been eliminated years ago.

[Scootaloo]

49. Obama seemed willing to negotiate on Social Security

It was "on the table," and frankly we're all lucky that the Republicans were opposing obama just for the sake of opposing Obama, rather than out of actual policy differences.

Will Clinton have a stronger position than Obama? I'm not confident.

[maindawg]

66. Ha ha

If you thought they hated Obama you ain't seen nothing yet. The level of obstruction will be at or greater than 120% . The investigations will be in the dozens, impeachment will begin by March and they will refuse to even meet with her. They will not acknowledge her legitimacy until the year 3000. Not even then. If she thinks the past 25 years have been a vast right wing conspiracy, the next 4 will be one andd they won't even deny it.

Their hate for all things Clinton a is historical . If she actually had horns growing from her head it would not matter.

[ReasonableToo]

79. I'm not sure about the obstruction part.

Yes, they will keep taxpayer-funded investigations hanging over her head but they will vote with her on TPP, fracking, protecting Wall Street, weakening social security etc. just as planned. There won't be a meeting on Inauguration Day to talk about obstruction. There will be a meeting on all the multi-national corporation wish list items. They will even allow her 2 terms when she does all the things the powers-that-be want. Just as they didn't put up serious competition for Obama's second term.

Bill encouraged Trump to run. The events are unfolding according to plan. No surprises here.

Bernie is the president we 99% need. Clinton is the corporate funded pres that the corporations pre-selected. Foundation is pass through to get corporate funds to all the third way Dems that will play the game.

She doesn't even need many Bernie voters. She needs people to be disgusted with the whole process and stay home. Mission accomplished. Trump is imploding and now saying all the wrong things. His Favorables are plummeting and unfavorables are skyrocketing. Again, according to plan.

I know. Come Monday, logic reason and truth will be unwelcome here. I'm only sneaking this in b/c of the delay.

It's a sad state of affairs. Not surprising. Just sad.

[AlbertCat]

75. Social Security Would have been eliminated years ago.

Really? How do you know?

Don't tell me.... you just guessed.

[arcane1]

81. One unfounded claim by you renders the entire premise of the book false?

That's a serious superpower you have there.

[swhisper1]

34. So nice to find a good thread with thoughtful discussion. Thank you

[elleng]

44. You're welcome swhisper1.

Was happy to find the piece after hearing Frank interview on the NewsHour tonight; new it had to be presented here.

[Duval]

46. Yes, isn't it?

[ReRe]

54. Yes it is...

... I'm enjoying the hell out of it too, especially no mindless trolls.

[midnight]

35. Does this sentence seem odd to anyone else?

"If you look at the last few Democratic presidents, Bill Clinton and Obama, and Hillary Clinton as well, their lives are a tale of educational achievement."


Hillary is not a past Democratic president, nor is she a curren Democratic president.

[Jack Bone]

37. great! thanx nt

[ReRe]

55. K&R

Thanks for a great OP!

[4dsc]

57. The truth is going to hurt these corporatist types

EOM

[CrispyQ]

60. I have two friends who have been registered dems for a couple of years.

Prior to that they were independents. They've both told me I should just suck it up & be happy with HRC. HRC is a symptom of what's wrong with the party. I was a dem for 40 years. I would always vote straight dem ticket. Not any more.

And yes, they were professional women. I was blue collar until my 40s when I finished my degree & went into programming.

on edit: Just checked & my library has the book. I'm 3rd in the queue.

[elleng]

61. Good to hear, CrispyQ,

and thanks, not to your 'suck it up' friends, but to your continued rationality.

[KPN]

68. Great OP and thread. There is nothing more

important to understand and sound the clarion call on.

[Nitram]

69. A whole lot of concern trolling.

The Democratic Party is not "the party of rich elites." If that's what anyone on Du thinks, I can't help but wonder why they post on this site.

[elleng]

71. It should NOT be,

but more and more it behaves as such, unfortunately.

[Skittles]

73. it's part of the Hatred for Hillary Hysteria

don't you understand? It is ALL her fault

[AlbertCat]

76. it's part of the Hatred for Hillary Hysteria

That's a laugh!

Criticizing Hillary's mediocre record full of bad decisions is not hysteria or hatred..... except to people caught in the "Hillary is Holy Hysteria".

I know you can't understand this, but some people actually go for hours...days...even weeks without thinking about Hillary once.

[Skittles]

92. criticizing Hilary is one thing

the Hatred for all-things-Hillary Hysteria is over-the-top SICKENING

[elleng]

77. Minimize it if you will,

it is not hysteria, and it's based on recent events.

Try reading the OP and Franks writings, and learn a thing or two.

[Skittles]

93. see #92

[alarimer]

70. Anybody who denies this is blind and deaf to reality.

Or maybe just one of those "Screw you, I've got mine" Democrats.

All the evidence is there; ignoring it does nothing.

[Nitram]

72. I'm sorry alarimer, I can't hear you.

Can't see you either. Screw you, I'm doing my fair share.

[tonyt53]

78. And Thomas Frank is who? Has what credentials? Has done what?

Now he is pushing a book.

[elleng]

80. Thomas Carr Frank (born March 21, 1965) is an American political analyst, historian, journalist

and columnist for Harper's Magazine. He wrote "The Tilting Yard" column in the Wall Street Journal from 2008 to 2010, and he co-founded and edited The Baffler. He has written several books, most notably What's the Matter with Kansas? (2004).

Frank is a historian of culture and ideas and analyzes trends in American electoral politics and propaganda, advertising, popular culture, mainstream journalism and economics. His writing topics include the rhetoric and impact of the culture wars in American political life and the relationship between politics and culture in the United States.

Frank started his political journey as a College Republican,[1] but has come to be highly critical of conservatism, especially the presidency of George W. Bush. Frank summarized the thesis of his book The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule as "Bad government is the natural product of rule by those who believe government is bad." [2]

Frank is the founder and editor of The Baffler and the author of several books. Other writings include essays for Harper's Magazine, Le Monde diplomatique, Bookforum, and the Financial Times. His book What's the Matter with Kansas?, published in 2004, earned him nationwide and international recognition.'>>>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Frank

[KoKo]

86. His book is a a really good read.....Available on the Tablets or Purchase.....

Well worth it!

[Doctor_J]

89. And gotten obliterated in the process. Bad morals is bad politics.

The Turd Way has decimated the party. Now Sanders has gotten millions of people excited about the party and changing things for the better, and the reaction of Mrs Clinton's supporters is to call them names and tell them to fuck off.

[elleng]

90. Right.

Getting pissed. Back to mindless tv.

[Bill USA]

91. the REASON 4 FRANKS OBSERVATION: UNION WORKERS % OF WORKFORCE DOWN 66% IN LAST 50 YRS

Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016160952


Rather than the Democratic Party turning its back on the working class, it was the working class who turned its back on itself, wanting to think they were different than their blue collar dads.


I like Frank's work,but he did not go far enough in looking for causes. THe fact is labor union participation in the workforce went from ~35% in 1953 to ~12% in 2003. Without the political clout of labor unions Democrats were losing more elections. In addition the Right wingers began a long term plan to increase their political clout. This included winning more state legislatures and governorships and then gerrymandering themselves into more power in Congress.

But there was something more -- and the Democratic Party can't be blamed for this. I noticed, somewhere back in the 70's through the '80s many college educated white collar types started to turn away from thinking they were "working class" people. They wanted to separate themselves from the blue collar politics and candidates who made that kind of a pitch. They weren't as solidly Democratic and preferred to think of themselves a "professional" people who were not going to respond to the 'old' political pitches which saw the 'working people' as necessarily wary of political arguments that sounded too 'management' oriented.

The result was Democrats didn't get the kind of voter turnouts as they had in the past. Additionally, the GOP started making gains through more concerted disinformation campaigns (increased ownership of radio stations spreading their anti-union, pro-"free enterprise" propaganda played a big part in this). I see the Democratic party responding to these changes rather than operating in a vacuum and just deciding on its own to become less "working class" oriented. Rather than the Democratic Party turning its back on the working class, it was the working class who turned its back on itself, wanting to think they were different than their blue collar dads.

As the Republicans were winning more elections (in part thanks to Gerrymandering, but also because of people thinking they were not "working class" people anymore) and gaining greater clout in Congress, the old fighting for the working man approach wasn't working so well for the Democrats and they had to adapt with a more subtle approach in dealing with a Republican party of greater strength than in the 1960's.

IF people don't like the current situation they need to realize that unless they are independently wealthy, their best chance of getting sensible public policy which doesn't shaft working people is to vote Democratic - not only in national elections but in State elections too.

[alarimer]

94. He was on Democracy Now yesterday

Good interview.

Beyond that, my lips are sealed. Or my keyboard is, whatever, at least here.

[elleng]

95. Yes, I posted it,

and my 2 posts have been removed. Too bad.

[Uncle Joe]

96. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, elleng.

[elleng]

97. Thanks, Joe.

Frank needs more visibility, and my 2 posts, his interview @ Democracy Now!, were 'deleted' by jury consensus.