Former Head Of U.S. Special Forces: ISIS Would Not Exist If Bush Hadn’t Invaded Iraq.

[elleng]

'The hawks on the right love to claim that the invasion of Iraq during the George W. Bush Administration was a good thing for Iraq, the United States, and the long-term security of the Middle East, even though it has been proven time and time again to be a bigger myth than unicorns. Now the former commander of American special forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, says the Iraqi invasion actually helped create newer, more lethal terrorists such as ISIS.

General Flynn told a German newspaper:

“We were too dumb. We didn’t understand who we had there at that moment. When 9/11 occurred, all the emotions took over, and our response was, ‘Where did those bastards come from? Let’s go kill them. Let’s go get them.’ Instead of asking why they attacked us, we asked where they came from. Then we strategically marched in the wrong direction.” Iraq and Afghanistan were never connected in anyway whatsoever, despite protestations to the contrary by Dick Cheney and Condoleezza Rice in the runup to the Iraq war. Our invasion merely created a gigantic vacuum which was first filled by al-Qaeda in Iraq and then by ISIS.

Flynn also remarked:

“First we went to Afghanistan, where al-Qaeda was based, then we went to Iraq. Instead of asking ourselves why the phenomenon of terror occurred, we were looking for locations. This is a major lesson we must learn in order not to make the same mistakes again.”'>>>

http://deepleftfield.info/former-head-of-u-s-special-forces-isis-would-not-exist-if-bush-hadnt-invaded-iraq/

Old, but useful.

[tonyt53]

1. i could not agree more. Odd things about Afghanistan is that al Qaeda was gone by 2002

The US special forces landed in the country in October 2001 and by the end of the year, they had ran al Qaeda out. The Taliban were running too. There was no need to invade, except somebody in DC wanted to put a puppet in the job of running the country.

[Wellstone ruled]

7. And the so called News Media will never admitt they fostered

Cheney's false scenario of blaming Saddam for 9/11.

[Rockyj]

30. Nobel Prize Winning Obama Becomes Longest War Time President In US History

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/obama-as-wartime-president-has-wrestled-with-protecting-nation-and-troops.html?_r=0

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/nobel-peace-prize-president-officially-longest-running-war-president/

http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/16/nobel-peace-prize-winning-obama-has-been-at-war-longer-than-any-other-american-president/

[baldguy]

34. That's a measure of how much of a mess the Bush regime left.

We'll be cleaning it up for the next century.

[Purveyor]

2. No shit sherlock... nt

[Person 2713]

3. Duh.....who doesn't understand this is more of a question

[Tess49]

8. John McCain, for one. n/t

[bvar22]

11. A notable Pro-War "Democrat" who stated:

" the Iraqis have been given the greatest gift that a human being can give ..."

[Victor_c3]

42. You're not allowed to point that out on this forum anymore

Besides, her vote for the war was so last decade. She even apologized for it and "evolved" on that position. To the democrats that expect us to support her, that's as good as if it never happened!

We need to get over a few dead Iraqis (we never even bothered trying to keep track of how many died anyways), a bunch of wounded and messed Americans, and forget about the soldiers whose lives were thrown away in the war.

We need to just do what is expected of us and buy a new mattress on Veterans Day, waive a couple of flags, and get a great deal on a new living room set on Memorial Day.

I almost forgot. Most importantly we need to vote for Hillary come Election Day.

[chknltl]

54. I didnt even need the sarcasm thingy....

I had some hope for this country once...but then Madam Speaker took impeachment off the table. I feel equally deflated right now. I recall DU back then...it seemed to me that there were a few VERY outspoken DUers who argued quite loudly against impeachment. I wish there had been a poll back then. The conspiricist in me would love to see which of these old DUers supported which candidates in this primary. I have my hunch.

Does my response to your response tie in? 100%..... because as you've pointed out in your last three paragraphs, we are expected to evolve as well. We are supposed to sit down, shut up and continue supporting the coming storm.

[Dustlawyer]

4. It is a shame that the men and women of our armed

Forces have been used horribly to pad the bank accounts of defense contractors in useless, stupid wars. The untold horrors and loss of innocent lives. It's sickening, those "Deciders" need life in prison!

[freebrew]

10. Life in prison...

right after we waterboard them and make them all pose in shitty underwear.

[AlbertCat]

18. It is a shame that the men and women of our armed forces have been used ....

We haven't fought a defensive war since 1945.

[MariaThinks]

5. That is 100% true. I think 911 would have also been prevented if it was a Democrat in office.

[greenman3610]

37. right, but remember

"There's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush"

see how great that worked?

[niyad]

6. nss

[DrBulldog]

9. And don't forget what our former "great" Secretary of State has publically claimed:

"The invasion of Irag didn't create ISIS." - Hillary Clinton.

[passiveporcupine]

12. She scares me more than McCain.

McCain will never be in the position of power we are about to put her in.

And she is offending people all over this globe. After the Orlando shooting, she accused Saudi Arabia and Kuwait of funding terrorism. They replied with indignation. She doesn't have the skills for diplomacy. I just can't picture her ever deescalating a situation.

The embassy (Kuwait?) described Mrs Clinton's comments as "conclusions made out of electoral objectives" that do "not comply with reality".

http://www.theage.com.au/world/saudi-arabia-upset-after-hillary-clinton-links-oil-kingdom-to-terrorism-20160617-gpla3n.html

[seabeckind]

38. Yep, matter of judgement.

One of many judgement failures.

58% of Democratic senators (29 of 50) voted for the resolution. Those voting for the resolution were:
Bayh, Evan (D-IN)
Baucus, Max (D-MT)
Biden, Joseph (D-DE)
Breaux, John (D-LA)
Cantwell, Maria (D-WA)
Carnahan, Jean (D-MO)
Carper, Thomas (D-DE)
Cleland, Max (D-GA)
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY)
Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
Dodd, Chris (D-CT)
Dorgan, Byron (D-ND)
Edwards, John (D-NC)
Feinstein, Dianne (D-CA)
Harkin, Tom (D-IA)
Hollings, Ernest (D-SC)
Johnson, Tim (D-SD)
Kerry, John (D-MA)
Kohl, Herb (D-WI)
Landrieu, Mary (D-LA)
Lieberman, Joseph (D-CT)
Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)
Miller, Zell (D-GA)
Nelson, Ben (D-NE)
Nelson, Bill (D-FL)
Reid, Harry (D-NV)
Rockefeller, Jay (D-WV)
Schumer, Chuck (D-NY)
Torricelli, Robert (D-NJ)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

[Amimnoch]

43. Thank you. People forget there was a broken promise to get those Senate votes.

Her vote, along with her fellows was ONLY supposed to be a scare tactic for Saddam to open back up to the UN weapons inspectors.

The bad judgement in believing Bush/Cheney is the real blame.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2016/02/hillary_clinton_told_the_truth_about_her_iraq_war_vote.html

Pretty good article about the politics and dealings that was going on at the time imo.

[tk2kewl]

48. ...

[xocet]

13. Here is a link to that interview...

in Der Spiegel:

Ex-US Intelligence Chief on Islamic State's Rise: 'We Were Too Dumb'
Interview Conducted By Matthias Gebauer and Holger Stark


Without the Iraq war, Islamic State wouldn't exist today, former US special forces chief Mike Flynn openly admits. In an interview, he explains IS' rise to become a professional force and how the Americans allowed its future leader to slip out of their hands.

Michael Flynn, 56, served in the United States Army for more than 30 years, most recently as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, where he was the nation's highest-ranking military intelligence officer. Previously, he served as assistant director of national intelligence inside the Obama administration. From 2004 to 2007, he was stationed in Afghanistan and Iraq, where, as commander of the US special forces, he hunted top al-Qaida terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, one of the predecessors to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who today heads the Islamic State (IS) in Syria and Iraq. After Flynn's team located Zarqawi's whereabouts, the US killed the terrorist in an air strike in June 2006.

In an interview, Flynn explains the rise of the Islamic State and how the blinding emotions of 9/11 led the United States in the wrong direction strategically.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: In recent weeks, Islamic State not only conducted the attacks in Paris, but also in Lebanon and against a Russian airplane over the Sinai Peninsula. What has caused the organization to shift its tactics and to now operate internationally?


...


http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/former-us-intelligence-chief-discusses-development-of-is-a-1065131.html

[elleng]

21. Thanks, xocet.

[shadowmayor]

14. You are fucking welcome people!

Spent a year in Abu Ghraib prison - er detention facility as an engineer cross-leveled and stopped-lossed to help the MP reservists charged with running the place during OIF3. This old sergeant knew before going in that Iraq was pure horseshit and I spoke out loudly and repeatedly. Some hated me for it, others came around as time went by. The brass wanted to kill me. Really knew it was folly while I was dodging mortars and rockets and RPG's and bullets (still waiting on those flowers Donny!). We gathered up Iraqis by the truck-load often for no other reason than being over 5 feet tall and living in the wrong neighborhood. This process led to a collection of really pissed-off Sunnis meeting each other for the first time and devising a plan of action. Abu Ghraib was like their boot camp, and then they were sent to Bucca where they were allowed to supervise themselves and formulate the group that we now call ISIS. So you are all very welcome for the work I did. I helped create ISIS - ta da!!!

And another thing. The Surge was pure bullshit propaganda put out by Petraeus and the other butt-kissing star officers to save face for the Bushies. In reality, we paid a shit-ton (that's an Army term for many boat-loads) of cash to the Sunni tribal leaders, especially in the Anbar province to "stand down" their attacks on the Americans. Simultaneously, we were partitioning Baghdad and other cities ensuring the Sunni-Shiite divide would fester and continue the civil war we unleashed. After we left, these Sunni leaders with all their cash and arms where swept into the arms of a new group fighting for Sunni autonomy in a country now being led by Shiites hell-bent on revenge. And the fawning corporate media and duffers like Magoo (McCain) still believe the myth of the surge.

What a mess for the next administration to inherit - especially when the military was being led by such incompetents. I remember junior saying he would never leave an on-going war to his successor like Daddy did in Somalia for Clinton. Well, in a way he was correct - he fucking left two wars to be cleaned up!

What in the hell did the people of Iraq ever do to the people of the United States???

[scottie55]

20. They Let Our Oil Be Under Their Sand

So there!

[elleng]

22. SORRY, shadowmayor;

my deepest apologies.

Welcome to DU. Many of us appreciate truth-telling.

[shadowmayor]

23. Been here a while

Didn't sign in 'til 2012, but have been a reader/visitor since the early days. Don't write all the time, but at times my seething hatred for the Bush Administration is crystalline pure!!!

[heaven05]

41. true patriot

thanks Sarge!!!!

[LiberalLovinLug]

46. thanks for sharing

Must have been particularly frustrating to actually be there and not being able to do anything about it.

[shadowmayor]

53. Tried to do what we could

The brass at brigade and above really wanted us to shoot and kill some detainees every time they rioted. And we went through dozens of riots! Believe it or not, there was a solid group of NCO's running the camps who made sure that such slaughters never took place. We arrived after the rapes and murders and tortures (and I'm not talking about the Disney version pictures released to the public) or what was known in the parlance of soldiers - the big "dick dance". To our credit, not a single detainee was killed by an American MP during OIF3 in Abu. A lot of it is certainly luck, but we did try to keep a lid on a population of soldiers that couldn't wait to turn their guns on un-armed detainees to quell any riots and restore order. The entire situation was beyond bizarre.

[MisterP]

50. well, once the Sons of Iraq were up and running--uh ...

http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1780-we-built-their-death-squads-isiss-bizarre-origin-story.html

[shadowmayor]

51. Amen Mister P

I try to explain this to people and they look at me like I have 3 goddamned purple heads! Look, whether you care for Obama or not - ISIS is a product of the Bush administration and the Generals in Iraq reaching a level of incompetence and corruption that is beyond imagining. We armed them, paid them, gathered them together and put a government in place in direct opposition to the Sunnis who became ISIS or Sons of Iraq or any other group fighting for what was left of their "homeland". What an endless clusterfuck!!!

Thanks for the reply and link!

[MisterP]

52. well there was still the Surge(s) and a certain SoS's insistence that the only problem

wasn't pouring in enough guns and money (ditto Libya, Syria, Honduras)
of course the more--enthusiastic--backers of establishment candidates will insist that the State Department and Pentagon have nothing--NOTHING--to do with foreign policy whatsoever!

[shadowmayor]

55. A Brewery

Iraq had a brewery before the invasion. The Christians or Chaldeans owned liquor stores. The Baghdad University was one of the best in the world and the students dressed much as they do in the States. That's right folks, we invaded one of the few Arab countries that was secular and was making beer. WTF? We obliterated what once was a country where Sunnis and Shiites married each other and lived in mixed up neighborhoods. Those days are long gone. We put Iraq on its knees, Libya is well on its way to complete disintegration, Syria is a giant shit-stain of blood, slavery, and weapons, and the neocons still want to bomb Iran. And most Americans not only don't know what's going on, they truly don't give a shit about the suffering we have caused. Amazing.

[MisterP]

56. heck, before the sanctions they had a tremendous obesity problem--and that was during the war

with Iran (where we egged on both sides)

it's like our obsession with Russia: that's not only what got us into Libya and Syria 2011, but was even behind Honduras 2009 (since we'd "get at" Caracas and through that Havana and through that--Moscow!)

[bvar22]

57. Sunnis, Shiites, AND Christians lived in mixed neighborhoods.

*

[Duval]

15. The simple TRUTH.

[maddiemom]

16. No. WE weren't too dumb and allowing our emotions to take over.

Some of us were, probably the same people who are Trump supporters now. There was a HUGE contingent of us urging common sense at the time. Phil Donahue lost his show and many others suffered in various ways due to urging common sense. Dickhead Cheney definitely wasn't ruled by emotion. His motives were right out there...a killing for Halliburton, et al. Dubya? Who even knows. I truly resent being included in the WE who Gen. Flynn blames for Iraq.

[truebluegreen]

33. +a zillion

[demmayhem]

45. And HRC told us all to go pound sand...

...when we were begging her not to support Bush's request. Not only did she vote, she was a booster and lied about the "same info" she and Bill saw.... that never existed.

[AlbertCat]

17. ISIS Would Not Exist If Bush Hadn’t Invaded Iraq.

Kinda "ouch!" and "Duh!" at the same time....

[scottie55]

19. McCain's Head Explodes

Again....

[Uncle Joe]

24. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, elleng.

[elleng]

25. You're welcome, Joe.

Timely, I thought. It popped up today, and I think we're all due for some TRUTH.

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. The PNAC had been looking for an excuse and they found it

[elleng]

27. Yes, they sure did,

and many continue to rely on it.

[Judi Lynn]

28. Thank you, elleng. n/t

[Midnight Writer]

29. Bush was specifically informed, in advance of his invasion, of "The Pottery Barn" rule

"If you break it, you own it"

[blackspade]

32. K&R

[uhnope]

35. yes and no. A Special Forces head is not an expert on terrorism or the ME.

GWB's disastrous war in Iraq destabilized the ME, yes, which allowed the spread of the extremist forces. But they were there before (9/11 & OBL anybody?). We can't really know what would have happened if the GWB admin had started the Iraq War.

Please note that local Islamic extremist forces are now beheading westerners in the Philippines. The US didn't create that.

[midnight]

36. Were we not told this was going to be a cake walk?

[L. Coyote]

39. The question now, When will they listen to those of us who were right about this since Vetnam?

A lifetime of being right and watching the military-industrial complex march on the the detriment of our nation and the well-being of the entire human race.

What is it going to take?

[heaven05]

40. +1000--so very true

from a warrior no less.

[sulphurdunn]

44. The worst thing about all this is that

the whole disaster may have gone according to plan and that the plan is still in effect.

[JEB]

47. K&R There it is plain as fucking day.

[LiberalLovinLug]

49. I was screaming at my TV back then

"Why are you not asking "WHY" instead of "WHERE" can we go to blast them into oblivion.?"

When the general says "We were too dumb" Yeah...you were. There were thousands of us that were much smarter that didn't even have security access. Why was that? Even Hillary Clinton was "too dumb". Neither Bush nor Clinton would tolerate a bunch of "fucking liberal retards" telling them what was what. It was maddening and was also the reason I joined up at DU. Just to have a place to vent if nothing else.