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  Post removed Wed Jul 19, 2017, 08:26 PM Jul 2017

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Post removed (Original Post) Post removed Jul 2017 OP
Every decision she made was put under a microscope during the primaries ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #1
And they love themselves some hawkishness forgotmylogin Jul 2017 #26
nonsense. drray23 Jul 2017 #2
Republicans were going to criticize and hate her in any case. yurbud Jul 2017 #15
Not just republicans. A certain segment of the left, or so-called left, were too. KitSileya Jul 2017 #19
+1000 (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #22
That is pure BS. She got three million more votes than Dump. Our system gave Dump the presidency demosincebirth Jul 2017 #3
Yes! DavidDvorkin Jul 2017 #4
work with the things you can control. Dems should have been a hell of a lot more aggressive yurbud Jul 2017 #7
Dems should have been SO much more aggressive in telling SCOTUS not to gut the voter rights act ehrnst Jul 2017 #33
it doesn't hurt to figure out what she "won" because of and "in spite of" yurbud Jul 2017 #9
Doesn't hurt to look at a variety of journalistic sources for studies on that ehrnst Jul 2017 #37
That's what this means." Igel Jul 2017 #11
thank-you still_one Jul 2017 #20
It's been pretty much shown that she would have taken the White House had ehrnst Jul 2017 #5
she could have widened the gap to make it unstealable yurbud Jul 2017 #6
But of course. ehrnst Jul 2017 #8
Putin & every other leader doesn't give a rat's ass about our domestic policy--Hillary was a threat yurbud Jul 2017 #16
Um... I was replying to your post about why she was a good candidate despite the sliver of votes in ehrnst Jul 2017 #21
You mentioned her keeping Putin up at night. yurbud Jul 2017 #23
Yes, which was a reason that the Kremlin tried so hard to scuttle her getting to the White House. ehrnst Jul 2017 #27
I'm a staunch, die-hard Hillary supporter... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #18
It made you doubt Hillary? I was not a fan of hers, but that whole email business had zero impact yurbud Jul 2017 #24
What Comey announced, out of the blue, 11 days before the election? yallerdawg Jul 2017 #28
I believe that you are being asked to confirm that there was ehrnst Jul 2017 #29
While proven wrong and disgustingly reprehensible now... yallerdawg Jul 2017 #30
Typo corrected! ehrnst Jul 2017 #31
I do! yallerdawg Jul 2017 #32
ERMEGERD! ehrnst Jul 2017 #34
*YAWN* Today's "X - cost Hillary the election" shitfest. Aristus Jul 2017 #10
+ a million or so! eom BlueMTexpat Jul 2017 #12
BS. Some combo of Stupid /non engaged/ racist fucks cost her the the election. Le Gaucher Jul 2017 #14
You know, it takes a lot of I don't know what to call someone too hawkish when Trump Solly Mack Jul 2017 #13
Total b.s. brer cat Jul 2017 #17
I don't trust anything Trump says about anything. But people who take candidates at their word yurbud Jul 2017 #35
A friend of my husband voted for chump because a Russian friend of his said Hillary wanted wars kimbutgar Jul 2017 #25
Now I've Heard It All (Until Tomorrow And Another Anti-Hillary Thread Pops Up) Me. Jul 2017 #36
Christ on a cracker. Is there no end to our own willingness to cut off our own legs? This is Squinch Jul 2017 #38

ismnotwasm

(42,674 posts)
1. Every decision she made was put under a microscope during the primaries
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 08:53 PM
Jul 2017

The ones promoting her "hawkishness" was amoungst the most purely sexist determinations. A man would not have been judged tat way. In fact, men were not judged that way.

drray23

(8,754 posts)
2. nonsense.
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 09:01 PM
Jul 2017

if she had been too "dovish" she would have been accused on not being tough enough to be the commander im chief. Dammed if you do, dammed if you dont.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
19. Not just republicans. A certain segment of the left, or so-called left, were too.
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 09:14 AM
Jul 2017

Those who are more akin to racist, misogynist Trump voters in that they wanted to only focus on the white (male) working class and their issues were also never going to support her no matter what. Doesn't matter that she had the best (most realistic!) policies for the working class, for raising the minimum wage, for giving people a chance to go to college without crushing debt - since she insisted on listening to all of the working class, not just white men, she was anathema to them. All they did was pick a reason to give for hating her.

demosincebirth

(12,826 posts)
3. That is pure BS. She got three million more votes than Dump. Our system gave Dump the presidency
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 09:07 PM
Jul 2017

DavidDvorkin

(20,589 posts)
4. Yes!
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 09:20 PM
Jul 2017

That needs to be repeated every time someone blames Clinton for Trump being in the White House.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
7. work with the things you can control. Dems should have been a hell of a lot more aggressive
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 09:35 PM
Jul 2017

on fighting Republican voter suppression and purges.

If they had made as much noise about it after the 2000 election as they have after this one, there not only would be no Trump now, there probably wouldn't be a Republican Party.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
33. Dems should have been SO much more aggressive in telling SCOTUS not to gut the voter rights act
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:21 AM
Jul 2017

or at least "made noise" that SCOTUS should totally go back to their chambers and stay there until they changed that decision.

Just like they should have done when SCOTUS handed the election to GWB...

Totally fell down on that, didn't they?

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
9. it doesn't hurt to figure out what she "won" because of and "in spite of"
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 09:45 PM
Jul 2017

this is clearly in the second column.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
37. Doesn't hurt to look at a variety of journalistic sources for studies on that
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:38 AM
Jul 2017

And when I have presented information in that first column - you state that she should have been MORE bulletproof to all of the obstacles that no other candidate has faced.

But I'll play your game:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/how-hillary-clinton-won/?utm_term=.4d14d263f26b


"The FBI investigation seemingly behind her (and Clinton's resilience again proven), her discipline as a candidate and the rigor with which her staff approached the nuts and bolts — voter ID, organization building, etc. — of the campaign began to shine through.

Clinton was the far superior debater in each of the three debates. She was prepared and measured, keeping her cool as Trump tried to rattle her with attacks from all angles — personal, professional and just plain odd. In a word, she looked presidential, while he did not.

Then came Oct. 28 and a stunning letter from Comey that emails “pertinent” to the Clinton investigation had been discovered on a computer belonging to former congressman Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) and his wife — longtime Clinton confidante Huma Abedin."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/02/in-nearly-every-swing-state-voters-preferred-hillary-clinton-on-the-economy/

"Clinton was generally preferred by those who said foreign policy was the most important issue, too, but Trump was preferred by those who saw immigration or terrorism as most important. The key is the margins. On average, about 13 percent of people in the 27 states said foreign policy was most important and they preferred Clinton by an average of 30 points. On average, voters who said the economy was most important preferred Clinton by 7.3. But on terrorism, rated most important by a fifth of voters, on average, Trump led by an average of 21.8 points. On immigration (most important to an average of 12.2 percent of respondents)? A huge 42.1 percentage point lead for Trump." (of course if HRC had played to the immigration/islamophobia fears of the white working class voters after 8 years of Obama, she would have been excoriated for that, too.)

She and the campaign slammed Comey for what they claimed was unprecedented meddling in a presidential election, effectively turning the conversation in the race to the FBI as opposed to her presidential campaign.

Simultaneously, Clinton's on-the-ground organization began to assert itself — rolling up record totals in key Democratic communities in Florida and Nevada, totals that gave her campaign a massive leg-up Tuesday."

https://qz.com/833003/election-2016-all-women-voted-overwhelmingly-for-clinton-except-the-white-ones/




Igel

(37,535 posts)
11. That's what this means."
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 01:59 AM
Jul 2017

"wafer-thin margins of victory in a handful of key battleground states"

Going with majority or plurality for the country as a whole is also a system. There are other systems.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
5. It's been pretty much shown that she would have taken the White House had
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 09:23 PM
Jul 2017

the election come before the bogus Comey announcement.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/

"If three states key to Trump’s victory—Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin—had suffered even a modestly lower casualty rate, all three could have flipped from red to blue and sent Hillary Clinton to the White House.”

Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law Suppressed 200,000 Votes in 2016 (Trump Won by 22,748)

https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
8. But of course.
Wed Jul 19, 2017, 09:40 PM
Jul 2017

Last edited Thu Jul 20, 2017, 06:47 AM - Edit history (3)

She ran against the Kremlin, 25 years of GOP smears that the far left opened wide and swallowed, misogyny, Comey, voter suppression aimed at democrats, and the statistical improbability of a party holding the WH for more than two consecutive terms, and still got more votes than any candidate but Obama.

Overcame all of that. Got the voters that were concerned about economics in nearly every swing state, as well as those who were concerned about social justice.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/02/in-nearly-every-swing-state-voters-preferred-hillary-clinton-on-the-economy/?utm_term=.28621f57b9ad

A bad candidate wouldn't have been keeping Putin up at night.

No other candidate has done that. But hey, it's Hillary we're talking about, so she totally blew it...

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
16. Putin & every other leader doesn't give a rat's ass about our domestic policy--Hillary was a threat
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 08:04 AM
Jul 2017

to Russia's security.

Her foreign policy record, pubic alignment with neocons, and even statements about what she would do in Syria made it clear Russia would be in the cross hairs if she won.

You have to think about how people in other countries would see things too, or do you expect Russians to shower our troops with flowers and chocolates after a nuclear war?

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
21. Um... I was replying to your post about why she was a good candidate despite the sliver of votes in
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 10:19 AM
Jul 2017

a few swing states. Look at the thread if you don't believe me....

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't simply trying to attack a straw man.

Is that clearer?

You're welcome.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
27. Yes, which was a reason that the Kremlin tried so hard to scuttle her getting to the White House.
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 10:48 AM
Jul 2017

Which address the very real reasons that the WH was stolen from her.

"A bad candidate wouldn't have been keeping Putin up at night. "

The idea of a president Hillary Clinton kept Putin up at night - therefore she was going to be a threat to him if elected. He wouldn't have had to intervene if she wasn't a good candidate, one who did indeed get the majority of votes.

Is that clearer?

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
18. I'm a staunch, die-hard Hillary supporter...
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 08:41 AM
Jul 2017

and that Comey announcement rocked ME to the foundation.

Who knows how many votes across America were sealed by that "one more thing?"

80,000?

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
24. It made you doubt Hillary? I was not a fan of hers, but that whole email business had zero impact
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 10:41 AM
Jul 2017

on me nor did Benghazi or any of the other Conservative scandals they made up.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
28. What Comey announced, out of the blue, 11 days before the election?
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 10:51 AM
Jul 2017

I know you have an agenda you are supporting here - but your notion that what Comey did had no impact, was inconsequential - I guess this is the revisionist history we all have to learn to dig through now in our new fact-free world.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
29. I believe that you are being asked to confirm that there was
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 10:57 AM
Jul 2017

indeed reason to mistrust her other than the emails, which the questioner thought was so transparently a "false claim" to throw the election.

I believe you are being asked to confirm the argument that she should have been so popular, and so above any possible reproach that the Comey letter should not have shaken faith in her on anyone's part, despite the fact that the numerous investigations and smears that the questioner lists had the desired effect, particularly in an election where the misogyny and anger on the far left were weaponized.

Any thoughtful person takes new data, even that which challenges their confirmation bias, into account when presented. And an FBI director making the case that one candidate was under investigation is compelling, because we assume that the FBI acts without political bias.

We didn't know that at the time - and it caused something of a celebration on the far left, who used it as confirmation for their anger at the Democratic party for perceived wrongs.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
30. While proven wrong and disgustingly reprehensible now...
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:16 AM
Jul 2017

it is pretty hard to ignore the Director of the FBI when he says he has evidence of transmitted classified materials, and 11 days before the election a whole new source for more emails which could include more classified materials.

You'd have to be pretty jaded and cynical to ignore all that - and if you ever had any issue with supporting Hillary, what a deal-breaker that would have been!

"Misogyny and anger on the far left weren't weaponized?" Come on.

Now you're just yankin' my chain.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
31. Typo corrected!
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:18 AM
Jul 2017

I think now you will see that I am indeed agreeing with you, and was explaining what the questioner was trying to get you to confirm.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
32. I do!
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:21 AM
Jul 2017

I didn't even pay attention that you were not the source of the prior comment that irritated me so!

I was trying to support YOU up thread!

Aristus

(72,182 posts)
10. *YAWN* Today's "X - cost Hillary the election" shitfest.
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 12:11 AM
Jul 2017

Russian hacking cost Hillary the election. Bottom line.

Is everybody forgetting she got three million more votes? In a normal world, that's WINNING an election, not costing an election...

Solly Mack

(96,942 posts)
13. You know, it takes a lot of I don't know what to call someone too hawkish when Trump
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 04:50 AM
Jul 2017

wondered why the U.S. wasn't dropping nukes as a way to solve problems.

Regardless of your stance on the military and the use of the military, to think someone who gets giddy about dropping nuclear warheads on villages (and people) is somehow not hawkish (or completely unstable) is ludicrous.

"war fatigue" my ass from voters who voted for Trump.

No one - and I mean no one - is suffering from war fatigue who votes for a man who wants - who actually thinks it would be a good thing - to use nukes.

Spouse to a now retired (20 plus years) war veteran.



brer cat

(27,587 posts)
17. Total b.s.
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 08:36 AM
Jul 2017

Of all the excuses for trump voters, this one really defies reality. Just thinking about this CiC playing with his "toys" keeps me up at night. I am glad your husband is retired, Solly. Spouses of active duty military must live in terror of what he might do in a macho moment or when he needs a distraction.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
35. I don't trust anything Trump says about anything. But people who take candidates at their word
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:27 AM
Jul 2017

might have seen one candidate who at least said he didn't want to start a war with our only nuclear peer, and it wasn't our gal.

And the only thing that makes me suspect he might try to avoid war with Russia is that they probably do have some dirt on him or even more likely, mob hooks in him that make him afraid to do otherwise.

Also, didn't Trump make that nuke comment after he was elected?

kimbutgar

(27,248 posts)
25. A friend of my husband voted for chump because a Russian friend of his said Hillary wanted wars
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 10:41 AM
Jul 2017

My husband pointed out the Russian meddling during the election and tried to convince his friend this was false. His wife was angry with her hubby that he voted chump. Recently he told my husband he realized he was duped by his friend who disappeared from Facebook after the election.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
36. Now I've Heard It All (Until Tomorrow And Another Anti-Hillary Thread Pops Up)
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:30 AM
Jul 2017

I wish there was an unrecce button

Squinch

(59,521 posts)
38. Christ on a cracker. Is there no end to our own willingness to cut off our own legs? This is
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:58 AM
Jul 2017

ridiculous.

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