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douglas9

(4,358 posts)
Mon May 25, 2020, 06:26 AM May 2020

Donald Trump, the Most Unmanly President

So many mysteries surround Donald Trump: the contents of his tax returns, the apparent miracle of his graduation from college. Some of them are merely curiosities; others are of national importance, such as whether he understood the nuclear-weapons briefing given to every president. I prefer not to dwell on this question.

But since his first day as a presidential candidate, I have been baffled by one mystery in particular: Why do working-class white men—the most reliable component of Donald Trump’s base—support someone who is, by their own standards, the least masculine man ever to hold the modern presidency? The question is not whether Trump fails to meet some archaic or idealized version of masculinity. The president’s inability to measure up to Marcus Aurelius or Omar Bradley is not the issue. Rather, the question is why so many of Trump’s working-class white male voters refuse to hold Trump to their own standards of masculinity—why they support a man who behaves more like a little boy.

I am a son of the working class, and I know these cultural standards. The men I grew up with think of themselves as pretty tough guys, and most of them are. They are not the products of elite universities and cosmopolitan living. These are men whose fathers and grandfathers came from a culture that looks down upon lying, cheating, and bragging, especially about sex or courage. (My father’s best friend got the Silver Star for wiping out a German machine-gun nest in Europe, and I never heard a word about it until after the man’s funeral.) They admire and value the understated swagger, the rock-solid confidence, and the quiet reserve of such cultural heroes as John Wayne’s Green Beret Colonel Mike Kirby and Sylvester Stallone’s John Rambo (also, as it turns out, a former Green Beret.)

They are, as an American Psychological Association feature describes them, men who adhere to norms such as “toughness, dominance, self-reliance, heterosexual behaviors, restriction of emotional expression and the avoidance of traditionally feminine attitudes and behaviors.” But I didn’t need an expert study to tell me this; they are men like my late father and his friends, who understood that a man’s word is his bond and that a handshake means something. They are men who still believe in a day’s work for a day’s wages. They feel that you should never thank another man when he hands you a paycheck that you earned. They shoulder most burdens in silence—perhaps to an unhealthy degree—and know that there is honor in making an honest living and raising a family.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/donald-trump-the-most-unmanly-president/612031/

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Donald Trump, the Most Unmanly President (Original Post) douglas9 May 2020 OP
It also what amazes me is Southern White Guys supporting the quintessential "Damnyankee". rickyhall May 2020 #1
Trump hates the same people they do and says it out loud rurallib May 2020 #8
Why? When he "thinks" like "I" do. Ferrets are Cool May 2020 #20
Vacation in Iowa?? wnylib May 2020 #30
When was in high school my dad and I drag raced. We drove all over all the place for events. rickyhall May 2020 #32
I'm 70 and have noticed that some wnylib May 2020 #33
I have never seen a worse Kaiserguy May 2020 #2
Your nail comment was pretty ??????, and probably true KS Toronado May 2020 #12
Two carpenters were working on framing a house panader0 May 2020 #22
tRump followers are cowards. Scarsdale May 2020 #3
The old lady across the street from me flies a big blue "trump" flag every day. mwb970 May 2020 #7
Southern White Men? They had a Black Man for a boss. That is unacceptable. Lochloosa May 2020 #4
Trumps a doddering moron who should be in a care facility. cstanleytech May 2020 #5
Evangelical "Christians" worship the worst, most evil man most of us have ever encountered. mwb970 May 2020 #6
I work with my hands Woodwizard May 2020 #9
These are great. Nicely done. nt ramen May 2020 #23
Very cool. I used a chainsaw as a thinner for a year. panader0 May 2020 #24
Saws Woodwizard May 2020 #28
Those are great! PatSeg May 2020 #25
Dear Goddess, those things are ugly!!!! You captured him perfectly. You are a true artist. niyad May 2020 #26
They eat it up when he makes the "strongman" Mussolini dictator face . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2020 #10
Back in trump's early years.... noneof_theabove May 2020 #11
They admire him, because they are just as despicable as he vlyons May 2020 #13
Spot On Cozmo May 2020 #18
Bingo! Pundits and writers need to stop wringing their jrthin May 2020 #27
I think what the author is getting at is character.... paleotn May 2020 #14
Sadly, it boils down to this; nwduke May 2020 #15
well, he bangs prettier wives. pansypoo53219 May 2020 #16
Short answer kacekwl May 2020 #17
A real man, or woman, takes responsibility and doesn't make excuses Ohioboy May 2020 #19
They are a cult of idiot racist fuckheads worshiping an idiot racist fuckhead Orrex May 2020 #21
Great editorial Gothmog May 2020 #29
Some of Trump's followers are wnylib May 2020 #31

rickyhall

(4,889 posts)
1. It also what amazes me is Southern White Guys supporting the quintessential "Damnyankee".
Mon May 25, 2020, 07:07 AM
May 2020

Not my ancestors. When we kids, Dad took all over the Southern & Western states on vacation but a never "Yankee State". One time to Iowa, that's it.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,103 posts)
20. Why? When he "thinks" like "I" do.
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:58 AM
May 2020

It's why they voted for him. He says out loud the things they have only been able to think. He is their hero.
Makes me want to

rickyhall

(4,889 posts)
32. When was in high school my dad and I drag raced. We drove all over all the place for events.
Mon May 25, 2020, 01:58 PM
May 2020

We went to New Orleans, Bristol, Tennessee, etc. As I remember now, actually it was Indiana just over the border from Kentucky. I'm 64 and have discovered over the last 15 years that my memory isn't as good it once was. Not forgetting as much mixing things up. I've been to lots of rock concerts, so a few years ago I started looking at band web sites and found a lot of stuff I remembered wrong. Kind of depressing at first.

wnylib

(21,341 posts)
33. I'm 70 and have noticed that some
Tue May 26, 2020, 07:23 AM
May 2020

memories are quite clear and accurate while others are less so. It's as if the brain can only store a limited amount and discards unused memory files after a while. The longer you live, the more files there are that get trimmed or deleted.

Kaiserguy

(740 posts)
2. I have never seen a worse
Mon May 25, 2020, 07:13 AM
May 2020

example of a man than Trump. I doubt that Trump even knows which end of nail you hit with a hammer. He is the whiniest man I have ever seen. I think its the hate and racisms that they like and to me that is not a sign of a man but rather a sign of ignorance.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
22. Two carpenters were working on framing a house
Mon May 25, 2020, 09:19 AM
May 2020

when one noticed the other guy was throwing every other nail across the floor.
"Why are you doing that?" he asked.
"Because the heads are on the wrong end." he replied.
"Then why are you throwing them over there?"
"So I can use them on the other wall of course."

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
3. tRump followers are cowards.
Mon May 25, 2020, 07:19 AM
May 2020

I said that to my son a few days ago. Two of my neighbors put up Trump/Pence signs in their yards, across the street from each other. One of them did not surprise me, the other was a disappointment, Then the other day two more further down the street put up signs "JB Pritzker Sucks" This must be because the governor of Illinois is carefully opening up the state. I told my son "Another two? Don't these people have the courage to do something alone, they need someone else to help them?" Typical, don't you think? Like their cowardly "leader". All bluff and bluster, then someone bursts his little bubble, and he throws a tantrum. He has to be surrounded by SS and aides, or he would not speak up. Coward to the core.

mwb970

(11,346 posts)
7. The old lady across the street from me flies a big blue "trump" flag every day.
Mon May 25, 2020, 07:56 AM
May 2020

Amusingly, the prevailing winds here blow in a direction that usually exposes only the back of the flag, which proudly reads "pmurT". Kind of a metaphor.

Lochloosa

(16,061 posts)
4. Southern White Men? They had a Black Man for a boss. That is unacceptable.
Mon May 25, 2020, 07:26 AM
May 2020

I had to fire someone that refused to work for a person that I promoted. Because that person was black.

Some things never changed.

mwb970

(11,346 posts)
6. Evangelical "Christians" worship the worst, most evil man most of us have ever encountered.
Mon May 25, 2020, 07:53 AM
May 2020

Who can explain it?

Woodwizard

(837 posts)
9. I work with my hands
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:10 AM
May 2020

I do chainsaw carving for a portion of my income at some events I do live demonstrations, it amazes me how many trump supporters assume I am one of them. The GOP has done a masterful job at branding themselves as the hardworking all American without ever getting a callus on one finger.

I carved some Jack O lantern pumkins with 45's ferret hair, pissed off a few supporters one woman marched away saying I am not buying anything here most likely would not have anyway and then one trumper bought one and got pissed at my wife when she said to me "Oh you sold a trumpkin"

[img][/img]

panader0

(25,816 posts)
24. Very cool. I used a chainsaw as a thinner for a year.
Mon May 25, 2020, 09:26 AM
May 2020

I cut a large log, about 5 feet long, into a nice
chair with armrests. What kind and size saw do you use?
I have only used Stihl saws. I recently bought a small one, I'm getting older and it's light
plus the trees on my land are not big diameter. When I cut in the mountains I use
my larger saw.

Woodwizard

(837 posts)
28. Saws
Mon May 25, 2020, 10:44 AM
May 2020

For my smaller items carving in the shop I use makita plug in electrics they last and last I did modify the drive to take rim drive sprockets so I could use 1/4 pitch chain with a carving bar.

My main go to gas saws are echo 310 detail saw, echo 490 moderate blocking saw and the beast Stihl 660 I mainly use that saw for milling lumber with an Alaskan mill attachment its 20 pounds 92cc 7 1/2 hp

noneof_theabove

(410 posts)
11. Back in trump's early years....
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:14 AM
May 2020

he wanted to learn everything about everything so he could be the smartest man.

So he started off in the house construction business.

He took out a nail from nail belt and drove it in with 2 hits. "The Boss" was impressed.

Then "The Boss" saw him pull out several nails and throw them on the ground.
Hammer a few more then throw some more on the ground.

"The Boss" came over and asked him why he was throwing perfectly good nails on the ground.
Trump responded that "they had the heads on the wrong end."

"The Boss" looked at him and said "How stupid are you? Those are for the other side of the house!"

Trump pulled of his nail belt, threw it on the ground and yelled "I quit" and was heard mumbling something about suing the nail company.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
13. They admire him, because they are just as despicable as he
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:16 AM
May 2020

They envy his wealth, although it's based on a mountain of debt, cheating, lying, fraud, stealing. They envy his supposed conquest of women, although real men detest his disrespect. They support his racism, because they too are afraid brown and black people will rise above them.

jrthin

(4,834 posts)
27. Bingo! Pundits and writers need to stop wringing their
Mon May 25, 2020, 09:55 AM
May 2020

hands as to why his supporters like him. The answer is simply: his supporters, in everyway, are just as despicable as he is.

paleotn

(17,884 posts)
14. I think what the author is getting at is character....
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:26 AM
May 2020

Martin Luther King talked about it. It's been acknowledged over the centuries. Though certain attributes are traditionally gender specific, it applies to women as well as men. In my mind, it's the glue that holds a civilized society together.

It's tenants are doing the right thing, not because it's easy or expedient, but because it's the right and honorable thing to do. Respecting and being fair to those who do the hard work, regardless of their socio-economic standing. Kicking in when your family, town, county, state or country needs you. Stoically shouldering the burdens in life fairly and equitably. Treating others, all others, as you would want to be treated. Showing mercy. Recognizing that the needs of others are as important, and sometimes more important than your own.

In the southern society I grew up in, it's what separated good folks, whether rich or poor, black or white, from...pardon the term...white trash. My parents generation (Great Depression / WWII) identified with it and taught it to their children, though they didn't always follow it. I think it's something born and renewed by adversity. Something that generation knew well, but we do not. Not until Covid-19 anyway. This is the time when character shines and gets us through the rough patches.

Donald Trump has absolutely zero character and surrounds himself with similar creatures. But in my mind, he's a symptom. Many of those who follow him, have no character at all. It's rampant in the Republican party. It's like it's been lost on a whole generation of Americans. Either they were never taught the virtues or rejected them since they'd rather whine and be petulant children. Some, like Trump and his family, are completely immoral. For others, it's just atrophied I guess. I don't know. What I do know is, character gets you through situations like we find ourselves in. Without it, things only get worse.

The thing is, if my father were alive and heard me whine about having to wear a mask during a pandemic, he'd kick my ass sideways and rightly so.

nwduke

(348 posts)
15. Sadly, it boils down to this;
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:28 AM
May 2020

The con man conning the easily conned, using hate as the medium to con the hate filled bigots!

kacekwl

(7,013 posts)
17. Short answer
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:34 AM
May 2020

His supporters are the same as him. They talk a big game but can't follow thru. All hat no cattle. Real men don't yell and bluster their way thru life.

Ohioboy

(3,238 posts)
19. A real man, or woman, takes responsibility and doesn't make excuses
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:57 AM
May 2020

Trump is too full of excuses to even be considered mature. There are children who have more maturity than this walking excuse.

Orrex

(63,172 posts)
21. They are a cult of idiot racist fuckheads worshiping an idiot racist fuckhead
Mon May 25, 2020, 08:59 AM
May 2020

This is the entirety of it, and no deeper motivation need be found.

The idiot racist fuckhead in chief flatters their vanity, their racism, and their love of cruelty; as such, they will follow him to their graves and will never turn from him.

Yes, yes. A handful will reject him here and there, but the great majority of that tiny minority will still tend to embrace Republican candidates and will certainly vote for the next Trump-esque candidate they can find.

They could catch Trump in the act of sodomizing their own children, and they'd still find a way to be okay with it.


And, as always, this applies also to the lurking fuckheads reading here from their various Konservative circle jerk cesspit forum. Go fuck yourselves, assholes!

wnylib

(21,341 posts)
31. Some of Trump's followers are
Mon May 25, 2020, 11:50 AM
May 2020

just like him, whiny, irresponsible, cowardly racists.

But others from the working class as described in the article, are angry and see in Trump a symbol of the rebellion that they feel. They are angry about working hard and getting nowhere as prices go up but wages don't. They have been told by leaders that their problems are caused by "foreigners" and minorities getting "special treatment" and they resent that because it goes against the fair work ethic they were taught.

Equal rights regarding gender disrupts their view of masculinity, so they love a guy who "puts women in their place." Therefore, Dens represent to them a disruption of what they consider normal. Hillary terrified them because of her competence. They live to hate her and Pelosi.

Those who are not overt racists have absorbed society's messages of subliminal or unconscious bias. They didn't hate Obama but could not seriously see him as a competent leader to run the nation. So they oppose a party that would run an "inferior" candidate.

Along comes Trump who rebels against all the social behaviors that they think are oppressing them. He becomes their hero.

Trump's followers believe that they have been abandoned and forgotten by "the system." They have, but it's their own party that has done it to them. They can't see that because their own party leaders have given them scapegoats to blame.

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