LTE: AR-15's history shows its connection to military weapons

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

In a recent letter to the editor the writer claimed the AR-15 is not a weapon of war. The AR-15 is most certainly a rifle developed by the ArmaLite company for war; all of the specifications for the rifle design met military needs. This included high capacity magazines, light weight, high velocity rounds, smaller ammunition to allow soldiers to carry more rounds that the M-14 it was to replace. it was modified to become the M-16 rifle that became the primary U.S. Army firearm during the course of the Vietnam war; primarily by making the M-16 a switch selectable automatic rifle. The high velocity rounds produce such terrible damage that the U.S. military prohibited release of photos showing the damage until 1980. The same rounds fired by the AR-15 today are used in the vast majority of mass murders in our country.

The fact that we allow military-grade weapons like the AR-15 to be purchased by children not yet old enough to drink beer, that we do not have the courage to stop those who murder children, or that we had to create the term “active shooter” to replace the more accurate term “murderer” is sickening. What country allows this mass murder; and what kind of politician facilitates these murders to help get re-elected.

Let us stop the madness: universal background checks, red-flag laws and permits, etc. The NRA used to support restrictions on gun ownership; in fact they were the leading gun control advocate in the United States for about 100 years. In about 1977 they moved in their current direction; very few restrictions on gun ownership by almost anyone. The NRA used to support licensing, gun registration, training and limits on the kinds of firearms a civilian could own. Now they support gun access that has given us countless mass murders, including the tragic murder of children in their schools.

Let us stop the madness.

https://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/ar-15s-history-shows-its-connection-to-military-weapons/

[in2herbs]

1. After Sandy Hook, Rachel Maddow had several very good and informative shows about this

and one was about this issue and how the attorney for the Sandy Hook parents were relying on this to pierce the immunity that gun mfgrs. were using to protect them.

It would be informative for TRMS to replay that segment today.

[IronLionZion]

2. It's great for killing lots of people quickly at close range

but not that great for hunting or home defense

[James48]

4. It's quite accurate out to 300 yards.

Not just close range.

Hunting has nothing to do with it. AR-15’s are for sport shooting targets, and hunting humans.

[IronLionZion]

5. Sport shooting doesn't seem quite as necessary

but I'm sure folks will disagree

[James48]

3. Actually, you wrote some misinformation there.

you claim the AR-15 round (I presume you mean the .223/5.56mm round) “…are used in the vast majority of mass murders in our country.”

Actually, there are more handguns used for mass murders than AR-15’s. The leading round is a 9mm round, not a 5.56mm round.

Reference: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/public-mass-shootings-database-amasses-details-half-century-us-mass-shootings

I’m in favor of raising the age of ownership of an AR-15 from 18 to 21- or more. Personally I’d love to see a “graduated license “ system, where somebody needs three years of experience with a bolt action rifle to upgrade to a pump or lever action, and an additional two years with that before they qualify for a semi-auto center fire rifle. Basically that would mean at LEAST 23 years old to obtain a semi-auto. I’d be ok if the age was 30. But that’s me.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. Not my letter but one in my local paper

[krispos42]

7. The .223 Rem. was a slightly souped up.222 Rem.

Pushing small bullets to high velocities was and is fairly common. There are a couple of other .22 centerfire rounds that both predate and are more powerful than the .223 Rem. as well as being commercially available. The .220 Swift and .22-250 come to mind.

Recoil is a function of total ejected mass (bullet, powder, gases) and muzzle velocity. A 72-grain bullet with a 40-grain powder charge and a 3,200 ft/s muzzle velocity creates less kick than a 180-grain bullet with a 60 grain powder charge at 2,700 ft/s.

Would you be happier if the AR-15 shot bigger, heavier bullets at a let velocity?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

8. My understanding is the smaller diameter bullet tumbles when it hits the body thereby causing more

damage. A larger one would go straighter upon impact. At least that's how it was explained to me when I was in the Army 45 years ago.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. In general...

...a bullet that hits something will tend to yaw based on the differences in density and viscosity of the target. Modern firearms have a twist rifled into the barrel to impart a certain amount angular momentum to the bullet. This stabilizes the bullet while in flight. This rotation will add to any affects the bullet experiences as it strikes an animal or human. Striking a bone will further complicate the path of the bullet.

In general IMO a typical .30-06 hunting round will, on average, do more damage than a .223 assuming both are fully jacketed.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

11. Beg to differ

Many of the children killed in Uvalde were unrecognizable due to the amount of damage done by the .223 rounds.

But we're really getting off on a tangent here. Either round can kill quite effectively.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Absolutely...any bullet can kill.

IIRC Robert Kennedy was killed with a .22 revolver.

IMO discussing in detail the terminal ballistics of different bullets is inappropriate due to the somewhat gruesome aspects. Let me just say that the military has been studying replacements for the .223/5.56 round because of, in their words, "inadequate incapacitation".

[James48]

15. Not exactly.

They (the US Army) are adopting a heavier 6.8mm bullet not because of inadequate incapacitation, but rather because they have a need for better penetration, and longer range. Afghanistan proved the 5.56 was not a great fit for 600 yard shots, or for going through heavy walls.

And no, there isn’t much “tumble” involved either. That was just barracks talk 40 years ago.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. You're correct

Here is what I've read by an expert on terminal ballistics written in 2008:

The disturbing failure of 5.56 mm to consistently offer adequate incapacitation has been known for nearly 15 years. Dr. Fackler’s seminal work at the Letterman Army Institute of Research Wound Ballistic Laboratory during the 1980’s illuminated the yaw and fragmentation mechanism by which 5.56 mm FMJ bullets create wounds in tissue. If 5.56 mm bullets fail to upset (yaw, fragment, or deform) within tissue, the results are relatively insignificant wounds, similar to those produced by .22 LR--this is true for ALL 5.56 mm bullets, including military FMJ , OTM, and AP, as well as JHP and JSP designs used in LE. This failure of 5.56 mm bullets to upset can be caused by reduced impact velocities when hitting targets at longer ranges, as well as by the decreased muzzle velocity when using short barrel carbines.

[James48]

16. They would be even more unrecognizable

With a 12-gauge slug, for the energy transmitted; or with a .308, also related to energy, or with basically any high energy round. Nothing that special about .223.

[krispos42]

13. It does, if the velocity is high enough

It's my understanding that .223 bullets from a standard-length barrel only go fast enough to tumble and break up within 100 yards of the muzzle. Past that, it's going slow enough to just punch through. The bullet may still curve through flesh, but not hard enough to break apart.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. re: "Would you be happier if the AR-15 shot bigger, heavier bullets at a let velocity?"

You mean like the AR-10? 7.62x51 IIRC.

[krispos42]

14. I was thinking...

...10mm Auto, .45 ACP, 6.8mmm SPC, or maybe something like .450 SOCOM.

All of them can be fired out of an AR-15 and all of them use heavier, slower bullets.

It doesn't really matter when your target of a helpless child a couple of yards away. That sick fuck turned them into hamburger!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. AR platforms are adaptable.

I haven't looked but there's probably a kit or set of parts that changes a standard AR from .223 to .22 LR.

All of these chicken sh!t scum have some kind brain malfunction when they target kids. Agree

[krispos42]

20. There is.

Basically, if it's no longer than a .223 Rem cartridge, you can get an upper made for it. Handgun ammo, rifle ammo.. I think even .410 shotshells.

[twodogsbarking]

17. The weapon of class destruction.