'When was it too late?' Some U.S. Jews wonder about their place in America.
Joe Py had been chipping away at a project he dreaded. In the past few years, he sold his valuable paperweight collection, got certified copies of his birth and marriage documents, and researched what it would be like to be Jewish in other countries. Where there weren’t Confederate flags down the street, articles about armed Christian militant groups in the local paper, and megawatt celebrities spouting explicit antisemitism. As the midterms approached, bringing more instances of terrifying anti-Jewish rhetoric, he and his wife had their house staged to sell.
“Our question was, in the 1930s, when did people know it was time? When was it too late?” said the 66-year-old Maine doctor.
While their Jewish friends and people at their synagogue weren’t considering moving the way they were, no one dismissed their preparations as ridiculous, he said. Their real estate agent said they weren’t the only Jewish family exploring moving. She offered to hide them if that were ever needed. The defeat of several prominent election deniers and Christian nationalists in the November midterms calmed Py and his wife enough to put a potential move on hold, but the questions about Jews’ place in America didn’t go away.
“This is totally new psychological-emotional territory,” he said.
The year 2022 began and is ending with some of the highest-recorded modern levels of antisemitic actions and Jewish worry. An atmosphere that experts say began as a shock with the 2016 election of Donald Trump and his comments against religious and racial minorities has matured, taken root and for some led to serious consideration or action toward emigrating. Warm pride in Jewish parts of the national zeitgeist such as “Seinfeld” has given way to cold calculations about what if.
more...
= new reply since forum marked as read
Not one person in the article, nor I, said anything along the lines of the "situation is bad but has (...) reached a point of no return"; not one! The very last line of my post to which you respond states: "While we aren't there yet, a tipping point sometimes can sneak up on you." Your original comment, however, stated: "Anti-semitism is not government policy by in any way shape or form in this country." A strawman. I didn't need you to 'splain to me what I already know. Nor does your "Jewish friend's" strawman, "to suggest that Jews living in the United States now are in an equivalent situation"" is an insult apply, because, again, not one, NOT ONE, person said any such thing in this article or in this thread! I would suggest you tell "some of your best Jewish friends", there are a number of people who have been asking the same question who actually survived the Holocaust!
From the article:
He speaks to Jewish groups around the country about Jews and political behavior, and hears a lot of “what ifs.”
“Folks are talking about ‘What if?’ What if Trump had won in 2020, or if the GOP had swept the 2022 midterms? These are people who say they’ve thought about moving out of this country, whether they should raise kids here,” Windmueller said. Jewish conversations about even the possibility of leaving have “intensified.”“I don’t wake up like, ‘Oh my god,’ in fear. It’s more like, now you’re just wondering,” Levi said. “But when you see American democracy being weakened the way it is, a president who said, ‘I alone can fix it’ — this is not good for the Jews. Attacking democracy at the end of the day is attacking minorities and Jews.”The ‘just in case’ mentality is really important. Just be ready.”
So, the article is NOT comparing the situation here to the one in Nazi Germany, but rather trying to guess when our relatives decided the water was too hot and the frog needed to get out of the pot.
"If you have already made up your mind to flee to another country to escape anti-semitism in the U.S., then I wish you the very best."
So, yes, I found and still find your responses to be dismissive, crass, and disrespectful, not just a matter of difference of opinion. Do not presume to tell a minority of their OWN experience, nor downplay their concerns about their safety and safety of thier community.
First, they came for...VOTING RIGHTS...then a WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE...then the right for CHRISTIANS to discriminate against the LGBTQ community...and still THEY persist and continue to attack the rights of other minorities. Hate crimes against Jews continues to rise and become more violent. So, yes, for us Jews, it is prudent to ask, "What was the tipping point in 1930's Germany? When was the time to get out?".
ONE family! ONE!
I never wrote that, it was in the ARTICLE! Furthermore, that response was to JEWISH people's response to the Py family looking at moving away from the US.
Again, no you didn't you "wished" that to ME. I saw it as insincere and thus my vomiting at your good "wishes".
That doesn't make ANY sense at all. I pointed out your "Jewish friend", who was so concerned "about Jews comparing the situation here to Nazi Germany, was NOT happening, and even Holocaust survivors were "asking the same question" as posed in the article.
That is NOT what a "strawman" is. Here is an example of a strawman:
'When was it too late?' Some U.S. Jews wonder about their place in America.
Your "Jewish friend": "..."to suggest that Jews living in the United States now are in an equivalent situation...belittles the plight of German Jews during the reign of Hitler".
Basing a response on something not asked or suggested is a strawman. It is not a strawman to state a response is crap.
Again, belittling MY experience, my concerns, and my feelings is "dismissive, crass and disrespectful". Since you didn't get it the first time with the quotes, let me spell it out for you, responding to me, a Jew, with the trite expression, "some of my best friends are Jews" (i.e me Jewish friend says" ) especially when it was a "response" to something NO ONE said, is crass. It is the equivalent of a WHITE person telling a BLACK person, that they, the white person KNOWS better because they have "Black friends" and that substitutes are gravitas.
Not even close to what happened, nor implied, as the question wasn't about "fascism" but SPECIFICALLY about the dangers posed to Jews in Europe upon the rise of Nazis. Yet, another strawman.
Too bad I wasn't sitting in a room with you, you could have just patted me on the head and clucked; "There, there! Calm down! I am here to 'splain everything to you." As for saving my "anger and bitterness" for "anti-semites and other fascists", I have and I do, but what another great example of someone telling a minority person, to which the teller doesn't belong, on the "correct, proper" way to express themselves. Oh, BTW, love the inclusion of the word "bitterness", doesn't that word carry lots of baggage in this exchange.
Oh, thank you for the suggestion.
But at least you hit upon something, "anybody who does not have the same background and experience you have". That's right, you DON'T have those things, do you? So, how about you let me and other Jews express ourselves and our concerns without dismissing them as "well, it ain't THAT bad, so chill! And, if not, best of luck to ya". Had you original response just been, "In Germany it was "too late" when the government controlled and directed anti-semitism for political purposes", that would have been one thing, and while I don't agree, it wasn't dismissive, it was the additional, "Anti-semitism is not government policy by in any way shape or form in this country."
So, a suggestion for you, when addressing the concerns of a minority group to which you do NOT belong, listen or read carefully before responding, and do it in a way that doesn't dismiss, belittle, excuse away, or shit all over the minority's thoughts, concerns, beliefs, and/or feelings and try to make yourself the "expert" or "the voice of reason and authority."
