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appalachiablue

(41,274 posts)
Wed May 15, 2024, 01:13 PM May 15

Chimp Warfare: Murder, Cruelty Not Just Human Traits, Hostilities, Extreme Violence, Primate Kin

- 'Hostilities began in an extremely violent way': How chimp wars taught us murder and cruelty aren't just human traits, LiveScience, 5.8.24, Ed.
"These primates' fierce ­battles ­were instigated by co­ali­tions of adult males, with the sole aim of extending their territory. The areas where the fighting took place corresponded to the land conquered by force." (Photo): Warring chimps were observed by Jane Goodall, Tanzania 1974.
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War and violence can often seem like uniquely human acts that have been present for most of our recent history. But do other animals wage "war"? In this excerpt from * "The Beast Within: Human as Animals" (2024, Johns Hopkins Univ. Press), scientific researcher Jessica Serra looks at the dark side of chimpanzees' (Pan troglodytes) behavior to show that our closest living relatives also have a taste for warfare.

Among nonhuman mammals, hostility between rival groups is quite widespread, but it rarely leads to death.

The frequent fighting between males is most often ­limited to intimidation be­hav­ior. While certainly frightful, it is rarely fatal. ­There is one exception, however: our closest cousins, the chimpanzees! Ethological studies have shown animals to be capable of forming complex ­political alliances. ­English primatologist Jane Goodall made a major discovery on this subject when she revealed an unsuspected dark side in chimpanzees.

In 1974, when Goodall was studying the be­hav­ior of chimpanzee colonies in Gombe, Tanzania, she observed a social divide between 2 groups in one of the communities. The first group, called the Kasakela community ­because they occupied the north part of the park bearing this name, was composed of 8 adult males and 12 adult females, as well as their young. The 2nd group, called the Kahama community, consisted of 6 adult males, an adolescent male and 3 adult females.

🦍The hostilities began in an extremely violent way when a male from the Kasakela group killed Godi, a male from the Kahama group. The rage of the Kasakelas continued to plague the Kahamas for the next 4 years, during which time 6 more males ­were killed. As for the Kahama females, 2 dis­appeared and 3 ­were beaten by a gang of violent males. The end of this "4-­year war" resulted in the Kasakela community taking over the Kahama's territory. It was a short-­lived victory, however, since another community of chimpanzees living nearby managed to scare the Kasakelas away... https://www.livescience.com/animals/land-mammals/hostilities-began-in-an-extremely-violent-way-how-chimp-wars-taught-us-murder-and-cruelty-arent-just-human-traits
- Also, LiveScience:
- Chimps use military tactic only ever seen in humans before - Chimps go through menopause. That could shed light on how it evolved in humans. - Related Stories;
—Chimpanzee troop beats and kills infant gorillas in unprecedented clash
—Alpha chimp steals eagle's dinner in 'surreal and exhilarating' forest encounter
—The animal kingdom is full of cheats, and it could be a driving force in evolution
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- FEMALE CHIMP infanticide might be common
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna18661491

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Think. Again.

(9,152 posts)
2. But how does that account for individual differences,...
Wed May 15, 2024, 01:35 PM
May 15

...among humans, anyway?

The human race as a whole is indeed extremely violent and many even enjoy that, while others abhor anything violent, and even get physically ill at the mere idea of causing harm.

Obviously, those of willing to be competitive and capable of hurting others will have a survival advantage, but without them the survival of all would be improved.

I wonder if it's the same with Chimps, a certain number, but not all, are violence-capable, while others are not.

appalachiablue

(41,274 posts)
3. Great points, TY! I dont know what accounts for the differences.
Wed May 15, 2024, 02:29 PM
May 15

I have seen both types of behaviors in members of the same family, some dominant and aggressive, others more cooperative. What I lean to is neuroscience as the primary factor and then environment and experience. Whether our chimp cousins could be similar I really don't know, but it's possible.
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More and more I think our 2 different human groups should start planning for a way to live apart and avoid conflict. The non aggressive group would need to have back up military forces as protection and in case, like Swiss Guards.

This suggestion of separation may seem utopian, or non loyal and I don't like the idea of separatism. But if the divisions and strife here don't stop, a break up (again) maybe on the table, sorry to say. And I realize Balkanization is a real concern. Very serious topics. Too big for today, have a good one!

shrike3

(3,953 posts)
5. Animals are individuals, too. I grew up on a farm and learned early that animals have personalities, just like we do.
Wed May 15, 2024, 02:45 PM
May 15

Or, if you don't like the term personality when it comes to non-humans, disposition might be the better term. Some animals -- who are in the same species, btw, -- are highly reactive. Others are chill. Some are aggressive. Some are not. Just like people.

We share 98.5 percent of our genes with chimps. So of course we exhibit some of their traits. Aggression being one of them.

Think. Again.

(9,152 posts)
6. Just to clarify...
Wed May 15, 2024, 03:09 PM
May 15

Aggression being a shared trait by some of our species, but certainly not a species-wide trait.

shrike3

(3,953 posts)
9. Don't agree, but it's just my opinion.
Wed May 15, 2024, 07:26 PM
May 15

I would argue that humans are by nature aggressive. It takes many forms.

appalachiablue

(41,274 posts)
8. Absolutely right about animals, luv them. Disposition is
Wed May 15, 2024, 06:04 PM
May 15

a good descriptor, like temperament, nature, etc. Perceptive elders, esp mothers and dads realize their children's traits early on, naturally. Thanks for replying.

appalachiablue

(41,274 posts)
7. JANE GOODALL, Wiki, Bio. On April 3, 2024 Jane celebrated her 90th birthday!
Wed May 15, 2024, 04:28 PM
May 15

- Today, April 2024.
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Wiki, Ed. DAME JANE MORRIS GOODALL, DBE,
(b. Valerie Jane Morris-Goodall; 3 April 1934), formerly Baroness Jane van Lawick-Goodall, is an English primatologist and anthropologist. She is considered the world's foremost expert on chimpanzees, after 60 years' studying the social and family interactions of wild chimpanzees. - Work: Research at Gombe Stream National Park. Goodall studied chimpanzee social and family life beginning with the Kasakela chimpanzee community in Gombe Stream National Park, Tanzania, in 1960.

She found that "it isn't only human beings who have personality, who are capable of rational thought [&] emotions like joy & sorrow." She also observed behaviours such as hugs, kisses, pats on the back, and even tickling, what we consider "human" actions. She insists that these gestures are evidence of "the close, supportive, affectionate bonds that develop between family members and other individuals within a community, which can persist throughout a life span of more than 50 years."

Goodall's research at Gombe Stream challenged 2 long-standing beliefs of the day: that only humans could construct and use tools, and that chimpanzees were vegetarians.

While observing one chimpanzee feeding at a termite mound, she watched him repeatedly place stalks of grass into termite holes, then remove them from the hole covered with clinging termites, effectively "fishing" for termites. The chimpanzees would also take twigs from trees and strip off the leaves to make the twig more effective, a form of object modification that is the rudimentary beginnings of toolmaking. Humans had long distinguished themselves from the rest of the animal kingdom as "Man the Toolmaker". Louis Leakey wrote, "We must now redefine man, redefine tool, or accept chimpanzees as human!"

In contrast to the peaceful and affectionate behaviours she observed, Goodall also found an aggressive side of chimpanzee nature at Gombe Stream.

She discovered that chimpanzees will systematically hunt and eat smaller primates such as colobus monkeys.

Goodall watched a hunting group isolate a colobus monkey high in a tree and block all possible exits; then one chimpanzee climbed up and captured and killed the colobus. The others then each took parts of the carcass, sharing with other members of the troop in response to begging behaviours. The chimpanzees kill and eat as much as 1/3 of the colobus population in the park each year.. This challenged previous conceptions of chimpanzee diet and behaviour. Goodall also observed the tendency for aggression and violence within chimpanzee troops. She observed dominant females deliberately killing the young of other females in the troop to maintain their dominance, sometimes going as far as cannibalism...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall

shrike3

(3,953 posts)
10. Other animals use tools.
Wed May 15, 2024, 07:27 PM
May 15

Crows have been known to put nuts in the road so cars will run over and crack them. Otters use rocks to crack open shells.

shrike3

(3,953 posts)
16. I always thought it was silly to say only humans use tools.
Wed May 15, 2024, 07:44 PM
May 15

I remember learning about otters when I was a kid.

appalachiablue

(41,274 posts)
17. For species that use tools in their hands, paws
Wed May 15, 2024, 08:27 PM
May 15

or claws like humans (the opposable thumb feature), then humans, primates, otters, and maybe other species should be specified - marsupials, koalas, and opossums; pandas.

Crows that hold nuts in their beak to break against rocks are using their brain and a 'tool.' Good stuff.

In a difficult situations an Asian friend would sometimes say, 'use your brain.' The main tool of course. Also once or twice, 'don't eat your horse.' Understood.

XanaDUer2

(10,967 posts)
11. Never liked chimps
Wed May 15, 2024, 07:31 PM
May 15

Love gorillas, and very sad babies were killed. Heard stories of chimps attacking humans, including ripping off a woman's face. Wouldn't want to be near a chimp. The babies are cute.

shrike3

(3,953 posts)
13. The performing chimps we saw were always youngsters.
Wed May 15, 2024, 07:39 PM
May 15

You don't want to get near a chimp when it's an adult.

appalachiablue

(41,274 posts)
14. Agree about the babies, chimps long arms are fierce. I wouldn't
Wed May 15, 2024, 07:41 PM
May 15

want to tangle with an adult in either group!

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